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2015-06-02
, 11:36
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Posts: 1,378 |
Thanked: 1,604 times |
Joined on Jun 2010
@ Göteborg, Sweden
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#2
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I think it is reasonable to ask that a notice is left whenever a Mod alters a post. Authorship otherwise becomes clouded.
Last edited by chemist; 2015-06-02 at 15:07.
Last edited by chemist; 2015-06-02 at 15:07.
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2015-06-02
, 11:44
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Posts: 6,445 |
Thanked: 20,981 times |
Joined on Sep 2012
@ UK
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#3
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I have stopped counting how many times that has happened. To me as well as to others. And yes, it is always the same moderator. I have also expressed my concerns about that a number of times (example, another one...), but nothing has happened as a result. I have even emailed the Council to ask them to comment and was told, in no unclear and, frankly, quite rude terms, to shut up and mind my own business.
Deleting posts a random moderator happens to not like or moving them to Off-Topic in bad enough but editing quoted lines is downright unacceptable.
Deleting posts a random moderator happens to not like or moving them to Off-Topic in bad enough but editing quoted lines is downright unacceptable.
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2015-06-02
, 12:45
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Community Council |
Posts: 4,920 |
Thanked: 12,867 times |
Joined on May 2012
@ Southerrn Finland
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#4
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Originally Posted by pichlo
Really? I am pretty sure council did no such thing.
I have stopped counting how many times that has happened. To me as well as to others. And yes, it is always the same moderator. I have also expressed my concerns about that a number of times (example, another one...), but nothing has happened as a result. I have even emailed the Council to ask them to comment and was told, in no unclear and, frankly, quite rude terms, to shut up and mind my own business.
I'll have to check that when I get back home...
Originally Posted by pichlo
I agree, that is not allowed. Even when the message is rude and personal the moderator should always inform the author on edits.
Deleting posts a random moderator happens to not like or moving them to Off-Topic in bad enough but editing quoted lines is downright unacceptable.
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2015-06-02
, 13:01
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Posts: 6,445 |
Thanked: 20,981 times |
Joined on Sep 2012
@ UK
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#5
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Originally Posted by juiceme
Not the whole Council. Only one member. Possibly not even a Councillor. The whole Council politics are too complicated for a mere simpleton like me to understand. Which is why I stepped down from my mistakenly accepted candidacy and promise to never run again.
Really? I am pretty sure council did no such thing.
I'll have to check that when I get back home...
I now went back to read that reply again and, admittedly, it could be read in more than one way. It's just that at the time it sounded a bit... dicouraging.
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2015-06-02
, 15:04
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Administrator |
Posts: 1,036 |
Thanked: 2,019 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ Germany
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#6
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ZogG, after the first argument between you and jalyst I have spoken to him, so in the future he should add editorial notes if he does edit posts - if on the other hand a post is rude or reported, you better do not start a fight about a silent edit, rules actually have infraction points for you so if a moderator removes "bad" stuff without further notice and you did not get any points either, why bother? We are or at least should be grown up enough to admit to our own mistakes. If you supply links to the current situation I will have a look though.
Pichlo, iirc you have been complaining about such unnotified edit and while I understand that you want an explanation, the same rules apply to you, having a dirty mouth and getting edited because you get reported and do not get any infraction points for it should teach you a lesson. Bluntly my reply to your inquiry can be read as "shut up", yes, if you want to. I wasn't council and I find it offensive to go up the food chain without talking to me first. I took it first of all as a personal insult. I do not have hard feelings though. Never the less you are here again bloating about it. I have explained every detail there is, if you are still unhappy, so be it, that is what moderation looks like, you make a mistake, you get moderated - I will personally take care that the next time you get your explanation and your infraction points and no more silent edits - if you don't want special treatment that way let me know and we call this the year of moderation and I will take care that any moderation has its points applied to the users - just kidding, hope you get it now.
For both of you, if jalyst plays up, let me know!
Jalyst while you are here, you may explain yourself...
Last edited by chemist; 2015-06-02 at 18:32.
Pichlo, iirc you have been complaining about such unnotified edit and while I understand that you want an explanation, the same rules apply to you, having a dirty mouth and getting edited because you get reported and do not get any infraction points for it should teach you a lesson. Bluntly my reply to your inquiry can be read as "shut up", yes, if you want to. I wasn't council and I find it offensive to go up the food chain without talking to me first. I took it first of all as a personal insult. I do not have hard feelings though. Never the less you are here again bloating about it. I have explained every detail there is, if you are still unhappy, so be it, that is what moderation looks like, you make a mistake, you get moderated - I will personally take care that the next time you get your explanation and your infraction points and no more silent edits - if you don't want special treatment that way let me know and we call this the year of moderation and I will take care that any moderation has its points applied to the users - just kidding, hope you get it now.
For both of you, if jalyst plays up, let me know!
Jalyst while you are here, you may explain yourself...
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Last edited by chemist; 2015-06-02 at 18:32.
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2015-06-02
, 15:08
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Administrator |
Posts: 1,036 |
Thanked: 2,019 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ Germany
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#7
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Originally Posted by handaxe
Just to make you aware, I edited your post with a few spaces at the end, the edit is clearly marked with timestamp and mods name
I think it is reasonable to ask that a notice is left whenever a Mod alters a post. Authorship otherwise becomes clouded.
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2015-06-02
, 15:09
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Moderator |
Posts: 5,320 |
Thanked: 4,464 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
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#8
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I'm really disappointed at the attempts to character assassinate here, I'm genuinely trying to do my job, nothing more & nothing less. I can't constantly waste huge amts of time on this sort of thing, this is the explanation I gave ZoGg, outraged again at TMO's bias against him (yes he's said that sort of thing quite a few times -not my words):
The suggestion by some here (well, one really) that I'm behind every single poor mod decision (IYO) that's occurred, is just downright wrong, misleading, & extremely offensive. Please by all means some of you suggest a motion to have me expelled, if you think that's the fair & reasonable thing to do, it'll certainly give me quite a bit more free time.
Maybe one of you feel you can do a vastly better job*, based on your idealisation on how moderation should be done, & perhaps you really can. I very much doubt that though, as I take the responsibility very seriously (as one should), & usually ponder every single decision once & then several times. Amongst that I'll occasionally "err", I'm human. This is all I'm going to say, not subscribing to this thread, I honestly can't afford to waste one more minute on this, I'm sorry.
Have a good day.
*assuming you realise all the extra running around it can often entail
Last edited by jalyst; 2015-06-02 at 15:19.
Originally Posted by jalyst
At no time have I been biased, I have only ever tried to ensure that the rules aren't being bent -too much. My conscience is clear, I know I did the right thing, like anyone though I'll sometimes make mistakes. As you've seen in our convo above, I'll try not to forget adding a clear explanation for every single post edit, if/when they're done.Originally Posted by ZogGI thought it would've been clear to you why it was edited, because I left a reason in the prior post (which you quoted) why it was edited. But it has since been edited again, so that explanation disappeared, I do my best, but what can you do!?Originally Posted by jalystFirst of all it doesn't matter what and when you changed, you could at least add the edit note ( I had to go to diffs to understand what was changed), but as well you could inform me on that too. think of the shock i saw my post edited by you and i had no idea what exactly as i do not remember all my posts by heart. Anyway it went public and for good. As i said i would not publish our chats if you worry about that. And if you think you did the right thing you should not worry at all and if it is not right thing it should not happen again and something has to be done about it. Simple like thatYour post was not touched, only the post you were quoting was...
If the edit revolved around touching what you wrote, & it wasn't a clear-cut rule break, then I absolutely would've told you.
Cheers.
I'm not going PM every single user for every single post I amend, that's an unrealistic & unreasonable expectation. I always leave an explanation in the post that's been amended, unless it was a post whose content wasn't actually amended, & especially if the prior post (which it quotes) has an explanation.
But, I can see the flaw with that approach now, so I'll try to remember to include an edit explanation in all posts from now on, no matter the reason.
Cheers.
The suggestion by some here (well, one really) that I'm behind every single poor mod decision (IYO) that's occurred, is just downright wrong, misleading, & extremely offensive. Please by all means some of you suggest a motion to have me expelled, if you think that's the fair & reasonable thing to do, it'll certainly give me quite a bit more free time.
Maybe one of you feel you can do a vastly better job*, based on your idealisation on how moderation should be done, & perhaps you really can. I very much doubt that though, as I take the responsibility very seriously (as one should), & usually ponder every single decision once & then several times. Amongst that I'll occasionally "err", I'm human. This is all I'm going to say, not subscribing to this thread, I honestly can't afford to waste one more minute on this, I'm sorry.
Have a good day.
*assuming you realise all the extra running around it can often entail
Last edited by jalyst; 2015-06-02 at 15:19.
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2015-06-02
, 15:25
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Administrator |
Posts: 1,036 |
Thanked: 2,019 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ Germany
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#9
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Yeah I found the posts already, please refrain from editing non offensive language, "naive fantasists" isn't hard language. Correcting spelling mistakes ok, I can even live with replacing google with android, but rephrasing whole sentences is not part of your job description - that was off limits. Especially when you just correct spelling, that is oddly strange to people not having an edit note, keep it short though [spelling,language,missing link] like notes.
So please limit your edits to stuff like that, don't rephrase whole sentences for people (ignore that for obviously foreign speakers where you get the context but the phrases are just wrong - still note "rephrased" please). Less is sometimes more.
So as this was about a strange edit matrix and not even about language stuff - please keep in mind that jalyst is just trying to help out. A tad overambitious but I hope we got that sorted.
So please limit your edits to stuff like that, don't rephrase whole sentences for people (ignore that for obviously foreign speakers where you get the context but the phrases are just wrong - still note "rephrased" please). Less is sometimes more.
So as this was about a strange edit matrix and not even about language stuff - please keep in mind that jalyst is just trying to help out. A tad overambitious but I hope we got that sorted.
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2015-06-02
, 15:41
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Moderator |
Posts: 5,320 |
Thanked: 4,464 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
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#10
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Originally Posted by chemist
It is in the context of what other users had posted, calling them "naive fantasists" is pretty clearly insulting language IMHO, there was a tiny bit more, but I can't recall it OTTOMH. Regardless, I only very mildly edited it, the entire meaning & all of the points he was conveying remained, almost all of the original sentence structure remained too.* I also included an explanation, but later he edited it, so that went away. Only the aggressiveness was toned down, so folks were still able to engage in a debate about the points he'd made, as evidenced by subsequent posts.
Yeah I found the posts already, please refrain from editing non offensive language, "naive fantasists" isn't hard language. Correcting spelling mistakes ok, I can even live with replacing google with android, but rephrasing whole sentences is not part of your job description - that was off limits. Especially when you just correct spelling, that is oddly strange to people not having an edit note, keep it short though [spelling,language,missing link] like notes.
So please limit your edits to stuff like that, don't rephrase whole sentences for people (ignore that for obviously foreign speakers where you get the context but the phrases are just wrong - still note "rephrased" please). Less is sometimes more.
So as this was about a strange edit matrix and not even about language stuff - please keep in mind that jalyst is just trying to help out. A tad overambitious but I hope we got that sorted.
ZogG's post was edited because he quoted the amended post, I forgot to explain in his post why it was amended, or rather I (mistakenly) assumed it'd be obvious, I didn't touch the body of his post -just the quote. As explained I can't afford to be partaking in this any more, so this is my last post or read of this thread, someone else by all means raise your hand to take-over. If Chemist or Council feels you're better suited, or that it's simply time for a mod cycle (maybe that's a good idea?), then I'm happy to stand down.
Bed-Time/Good Night,
*though it changed a tiny bit more -as he edited it later
Last edited by jalyst; 2015-06-02 at 16:10. Reason: typo, going to damn bed :-(
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But last post he edited with no notifications, and though the text inside quote that was changed and not my answer itself, i don't think it's acceptable. As it's starts here and you never know where it ends. Maybe intentions were good, but still it's not very democratic and reasonable that moderator who even doesn't own the site (it's not private or personal site) just simply decide to change someone's post without notification? It doesn't matter what intentions are (as point of view can differ from one person to another).
First of all it's my post and this is public forum and no admin or moderator can simply change it if it's not direct insult or/and spam, not allowed words. In other cases it would be logical that moderator at least contact the person and give him a chance to do it himself or to discuss the matter(in our world the judges need to prove the guilt and not opposite). Or the most least thing is to add edit reason for edit, as there was no reason as well!
P.S. Please do not answer that mods are volunteers, this is excuse and not the reason to do such things. Being a moderator(and i had exp in this) is duty and not the power and abuse of it, doesn't matter if you get paid for it or not!
IRC nick on freenode — ZogG
imgrup