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ammyt's Avatar
ammyt is offline ammyt
2012-04-25 , 07:18
Posts: 1,918 | Thanked: 3,118 times | Joined on Oct 2010 @ My pants
#31
Originally Posted by Lumiaman View Post
Tomi is a dead wood, who should retire and stop spewing misinformation. He should realize that pre-Elop team set up the disaster conditions. Even in 2008, I remember NOKIA reps in the US running around scared of what the iphone will do to them. And they didnt re-group. Tomi needs to go away, peacefully
You sure you're not actually Stephen Elop?
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Larswad is offline Larswad
2012-04-25 , 07:32
Posts: 385 | Thanked: 426 times | Joined on Dec 2009 @ Gothenburg, Sweden
#32
Originally Posted by zimon View Post
Can Symbian run on multicore-CPU-platforms, does it have a thread-safe code? I think not, neither does WP. Both are unusable for high end phones.

Because Elop and MS, Nokia is forbidden to bring quad-core Meego-device with the Pureview-camera. What a great decision from Elop and the general board, good job!
Nokia deserves to die and get the next Darwin award.
Not that I'm a windows fan (today I'm actually rather far from it), but I'd like to know what you base your opinion on that Windows CE doesn't have thread safe code?
I have worked with Windows CE for many years and it is in every way real multithreading with all the typical thread safety mechanisms.
Or, do I have a different view than you do on what thread safe is?
I have no idea though whether CE today can run on multicore or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did.
 
drvar is offline drvar
2012-04-25 , 10:37
Posts: 149 | Thanked: 22 times | Joined on Jan 2012 @ Slovenia, Ljubljana
#33
Originally Posted by specc View Post
That wasn't my point. The point was that Android has taken 3-4 years to develop into a full blown OS supporting an uncountable permutation of hardware. If Nokia had used Android, they wouldn't use 5 years to make the PureView HW work on that platform. Max 5 months (my guess, probably less). On a second thought, they probably would use 5 years, and it would still be buggy when it launched.

The second point was that they had 5 years to develop Symbian for that HW.

Hence, Ahonen's rant is nothing but pointless rant. He has serious problems.
You didn't understood me. I mean't those 5 years were been for developing hardware and not to make it compatible to work on platform (this is in my opinion only 10-15% of time of all development of 808).
So in my opnion they spend just few months to get it on Symbian (and symbian is known to have bestg cameras, so for the same result it would take longer to have it on Android or any other platform).
 
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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2012-04-25 , 11:27
Posts: 3,790 | Thanked: 5,718 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria
#34
Originally Posted by specc View Post
As much as I like Symbian, it is outdated, ....

I wonder why people keep repeating this nonsense. I have (or had) a C7 running Symbian, a N9 (Maemo/MeeGo) and a Lumia 800 (WP). The C7 is the workhorse that I have with me most of the time. It can do everything, while the N9 lacks a bit here and there.... and WP7 is so limited and so 2005ish that I returned it after a few weeks. (It was, in fact, worse than the non-touch, S60-based 6110 Navigator.)

While I understand that low-level development for Symbian is a mess, for a user it's still years ahead of iOS, WP and friends.
 
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Kangal is offline Kangal
2012-04-25 , 11:58
Posts: 1,789 | Thanked: 1,699 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#35
The whole thing comes to one point in the timeline:
when the Galaxy S and iPhone 4 were released.

For Nokia to be competitive today, they needed to have the N8 (Belle) and N9 (Harmattan) selling back then, which is Q4 2010.
or...
They needed the Lumia 900 with Mango.

Honestly I can say the WP is a better ecosystem, but MeeGo is a better OperatingSystem. With OVI (carrier billing) and NOKIA, MeeGo would've even surpassed the ecosystem that MS holds (Zune, Live, Skype, Xbox-Persona Integration). They just didn't play their strengths and became susceptible to their weaknesses, and all-in-all didn't release an innovation in the correct time (18 months too late).
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erendorn is offline erendorn
2012-04-25 , 13:15
Posts: 738 | Thanked: 983 times | Joined on Apr 2010 @ London
#36
Originally Posted by Larswad View Post
Not that I'm a windows fan (today I'm actually rather far from it), but I'd like to know what you base your opinion on that Windows CE doesn't have thread safe code?
I have worked with Windows CE for many years and it is in every way real multithreading with all the typical thread safety mechanisms.
Or, do I have a different view than you do on what thread safe is?
I have no idea though whether CE today can run on multicore or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did.
Dual core support (which is different than multithreaded and multitask) apparently only came with Windows CE 7.0 (March 2011), and windows phone is only based on CE 6.0 with backported 7.0 features, so it is fair to assume that it did not support multi core at launch, and it's not even sure it does yet.
 
patlak is offline patlak
2012-04-25 , 13:23
Posts: 1,033 | Thanked: 1,013 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#37
Originally Posted by Lumiaman View Post
Tomi is a dead wood, who should retire and stop spewing misinformation. He should realize that pre-Elop team set up the disaster conditions. Even in 2008, I remember NOKIA reps in the US running around scared of what the iphone will do to them. And they didnt re-group. Tomi needs to go away, peacefully
How was the pre-Elop team setting up the disaster conditions? Yes, they suffered a bit in short term, but that pre-Elop team are churning out Belle, Carla, Donna and MeeGo devices. Elop's WP team has Nokia on the junk list.

Grow a brain, it's painful and insulting to know people like you and Elop exist.
 
patlak is offline patlak
2012-04-25 , 13:29
Posts: 1,033 | Thanked: 1,013 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#38
Originally Posted by ammyt View Post
You sure you're not actually Stephen Elop?
or Specc? 10char
 
afaq's Avatar
afaq is offline afaq
2012-04-25 , 14:21
Posts: 1,038 | Thanked: 1,408 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ London
#39
Nokia was not doing great before Elop. Flop after flop and having the largest market share and decent earnings isnt a good enough reason to keep going. Poor management of Nokia lead to the hiring of Elop and we are where we are.

Elop gets a lot of hate - rightly so I believe but who was too focused on Symbian to give any attention to maemo/meego? Pre Elop Nokia management. Symbian was a religion inside Noka. Remember that article?
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gerbick
2012-04-25 , 14:48
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#40
Originally Posted by patlak View Post
How was the pre-Elop team setting up the disaster conditions?
They didn't capitalize on funding and marketing Maemo properly. They kept the majority of the money and resources on Symbian, relegated Maemo to a start/stop affair that never seemed to congeal into a marketable, mainstream product.

All of that was under OPK. They preceded the iPhone with the Maemo products and Nokia responded with the N97. Not a good response if you ask me.

The disastrous handling of what came next, Comes with Music to counter iTunes, N-Gage to counter mobile gaming, sticking with underpowered platforms that performed poorly - later rectified with the N8 and going forward - Nokia didn't really help themselves in those years following the iPhone or Android ascension.

There's a lot of other factors, but let's just not mince words. OPK's reign set things up to where they had to counter, evolve and change their ways - from marketing to media, and it didn't happen fast enough.

Ovi Store is a success. But it's eclipsed by Android's and iTunes mind share. Comes with Music was a failure, Ovi Music is also. It just wasn't a name that people outside of Europe flocked to. But I speak on that as a North American.

Regardless, a lot of these messes were in place before Elop, all he had to do was come in, assess with a very biased eye that what was probably repairable should be seen as a problem and propose that Windows Phone 7 has an ecosystem that more people will get behind (XBOX Live, MS Music, MS Video, et al) and the other things that Nokia had been working on were not ready for primetime, even if released, it would require too much work to get it to where it would be a viable platform... and he "looked" right.

That's my take.
 
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