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RogerS is offline RogerS
2008-02-25 , 16:54
Posts: 772 | Thanked: 183 times | Joined on Jul 2005 @ Montclair, NJ (NYC suburbs)
#1
I think maybe I mistitled the two posts I wrote recently about setting up a environment for internet tablet software development. No one read them. And maybe that's because people don't realize what they're about.

The most recent post was called Installing Scratchbox under andlinux and the earlier one was Me and Linux, round 4 and a half.

The point of these posts and the thread started by BOFH and contributed to by OSEmuTech, Run Linux on top of Windows, without a virtual machine, is that you don’t have to have a Linux computer — or a dual-boot Linux, or Linux running on a virtual machine — in order to write and test applications for the Nokia Internet Tablets.

And that seems to me to be newsworthy.

So I’m repeating myself by posting again, but this time under a more appropriate heading.

Point: You can easily install andLinux on your Windows computer. Took me all of five minutes.

Point: What you don’t get with this (to quote the andLinux FAQ) is:
  • another desktop
  • the bench of applications that usually ship with Linux distributions (you have to fetch whatever you want)
  • a printer driver
  • trouble with further drivers
Point: You can run Linux apps side-by-side with your Windows apps, and use the Windows desktop for all the file-management stuff you already know how to do. And use your Windows printer drivers.

This is way cool, and I think we should make a big thing of it!

Since the internet tablets have an ARM processor (and not an x86-based cpu the way desktops and laptops do), you need to be able to write an app for the NIT, see how it looks while you’re on your own computer, and make a version that will run on a NIT.

So you install Scratchbox and Maemo 4.0.1 to do that. Pete Savage has written a full step-by-step how-to that tells you each thing you need to do. Even I, a perennial Linux tourist (and never a resident), managed it on my first try.

I’m going to repeat myself again: This is way cool! I definitely think we should make a big thing of it!
Read the full article.
 

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FGol is offline FGol
2008-02-25 , 17:06
Posts: 97 | Thanked: 3 times | Joined on Jan 2008
#2
The new wording for the subject caught my eye... unlike the first two!

Thank you for this news.

Frank
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OSEmuTech is offline OSEmuTech
2008-02-25 , 17:11
Posts: 466 | Thanked: 142 times | Joined on Jan 2008 @ Temple Terrorist, FL
#3
I think using Scratchbox and the Maemo SDK via andLinux on Windows is a great way for Windows users to be introduced to development for Maemo and Linux (andLinux ) use in general.

But ... I believe most developers who currently know how how to develop in Linux and Maemo in particular are already Linux gurus running Linux as their preferred desktop. Though there may be some Maemo developers who will be interested in this option on Windows.

It's great that andLinux uses Ubuntu (with coLinux) as the distro is rather popular, easy, and fun. Hopefully besides the KDE and XFCE installation packages they come out with a Gnome (GTK+) installation package so those who prefer Gnome don't have to install all the related packages using Synaptic and manually add the applications to the andLinux Windows systray menu.
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missaghi is offline missaghi
2008-02-25 , 17:13
Posts: 30 | Thanked: 1 time | Joined on Dec 2007 @ Minneapolis
#4
Thanks for this, i've been asking for this sort of info on various posts.

My biggest barrier to entry for programming in a new area is setting up a development environment. I'm a c# developer so my hurdle is setting up a linux environment (which has been a pain for all my ATI video cards) and deciding what language to use, then figuring out how to setup compilers... (i doubt that there is a visual studio for maemo apps) my most reliable linux box right now is the tablet itself.

I mostly want to build an applet GUI for hamachi, from the familiar confines of my XP box.
Last edited by missaghi; 2008-02-25 at 17:15.
 
RogerS's Avatar
RogerS is offline RogerS
2008-02-25 , 17:33
Posts: 772 | Thanked: 183 times | Joined on Jul 2005 @ Montclair, NJ (NYC suburbs)
#5
Originally Posted by OSEmuTech View Post
I believe most developers who currently know how how to develop in Linux and Maemo in particular are already Linux gurus running Linux as their preferred desktop. Though there may be some Maemo developers who will be interested in this option on Windows.
Yes, I agree that most everybody developing currently is a Linux black belt.

But I don't think the majority of potential developers use Linux, and I don't think the majority of current IT owners run Linux.

If I'm wrong, then the size of the developer universe is, well, as big as it is.

If I'm right, then maybe the universe will get bigger the easier it is for Windows types to wrap their heads around Maemo, Hildon and Linux.

The black belts won't need these posts, that's true. They will follow their own path. I am on the Middle way.

Roger
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dont is offline dont
2008-02-25 , 18:04
Posts: 334 | Thanked: 55 times | Joined on Aug 2007 @ Eastern Ontario, Canada
#6
Ok, I am interested but I am still unclear about what this buys me over VMWare.

Do you mean that I can use an existing Windows tool, for example a favourite editor, and use it to transparently edit and save files that Scratchbox under andLinux can use?

Can I use Windows Explorer to manage the files that andLinux controls?

Or are there still 'two worlds' to manage by copying files back and forth if I want to use existing Windows tools?

Aside: Having recently started to use WinSCP and set it up to actively monitor file changes on my Windows box I am wondering why we don't do the bulk of development right inside the Tablet and just have a convenient editor and screen on whatever host you like to use and let the two operating systems mirror files back and forth in the background. This is probably a stupid idea, but I have never liked remote development systems that emulate their targets.
 
iamthewalrus is offline iamthewalrus
2008-02-25 , 18:08
Posts: 566 | Thanked: 150 times | Joined on Dec 2007
#7
With so many platforms to choose from I think it would benefit the tablets a lot if there was a way to lure python devs to try out the tablet SDK with a few clicks.
 
dont is offline dont
2008-02-25 , 19:05
Posts: 334 | Thanked: 55 times | Joined on Aug 2007 @ Eastern Ontario, Canada
#8
Originally Posted by iamthewalrus View Post
With so many platforms to choose from I think it would benefit the tablets a lot if there was a way to lure python devs to try out the tablet SDK with a few clicks.
If you don't want Hildon then I am finding that a combination of Eclipse/Pydev as an editor and WinSCP monitoring the Eclipse project files and transparently transferring them to the tablet ready to run from a command line in Putty in WinXP is working quite nicely. It does not allow me to debug Python from inside Eclipse, but it allows me to use a really nice editor, etc... with two monitors and a real keyboard. Add VNCServer on the tablet and you can do your testing from a Windows box too. It could be worse which is why I wonder why I need another Linux box for Scratchbox when I already have one - the tablet itself.

There is also a project called Pluthon that promises to enable the Eclipse/Pydev debugger to control a tablet. I have not tried this as it is only available for Linux, but maybe this would be a good candidate for andLinux?

If you want Hildon then Eagle might be an answer but it needs more work (not a lot I suspect).

I am hoping to avoid Hildon by using the browser as a window manager couple with a local Python server+app.
 

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ustunozgur is offline ustunozgur
2008-02-25 , 19:08
Posts: 35 | Thanked: 17 times | Joined on Jan 2008
#9
Originally Posted by dont View Post
Do you mean that I can use an existing Windows tool, for example a favourite editor, and use it to transparently edit and save files that Scratchbox under andLinux can use?

Can I use Windows Explorer to manage the files that andLinux controls?

Or are there still 'two worlds' to manage by copying files back and forth if I want to use existing Windows tools?
All the files are stored in a huge .drv file, but the good news is that you can use samba to access files/folders from both. So, I assume that if you work on that shared space, you can use both Windows and andLinux tools for your work.

There are, I think, ways to mount a drive -- but I'm not sure how.
 
Duncan is offline Duncan
2008-02-25 , 19:22
Posts: 157 | Thanked: 96 times | Joined on Nov 2007 @ Oxford, UK
#10
Originally Posted by dont View Post
Ok, I am interested but I am still unclear about what this buys me over VMWare.

Do you mean that I can use an existing Windows tool, for example a favourite editor, and use it to transparently edit and save files that Scratchbox under andLinux can use?

Can I use Windows Explorer to manage the files that andLinux controls?
I don't know about andLinux, but most of this you can do with vmWare and the bits which are hard I expect would be hard with andLinux also.

You can access your Windows drive from inside a vmware machine using hgfs, or you can share parts of the Linux drive using Samba or NFS and mount them in Windows.

That means you can use your Windows editor, explorer, TortoiseSVN &c. but you have to watch out for line endings. Even if your editor preserves the unix style newlines it probably defaults to DOS. SVN's eol-style:native will give you Windows line ends also.

In theory (i.e. I haven't tried this) you should be able to configure vmware so that both the scratchbox terminal window and the emulated desktop are running directly on a Windows X server. That would mean you could just minimise the vmware window, and have everything on the windows desktop.
 
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