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2011-02-09
, 21:09
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Posts: 1,141 |
Thanked: 781 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Magical Unicorn Land
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#2
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MeeGo is an open-source project, Nokia is a consumer (and supporter) of MeeGo, but Nokia != MeeGo.
If you don't like how it's going you should join it and add your expertise. Join the MeeGo-Community mailing list and give them your ideas about what they should do differently. You don't have to be a programmer.
If you're only concerned personally as an end-user, then I would say you should just forget that MeeGo exists for now. When the day comes that it's ready as the primary OS on your device, I guarantee the news will be all over the internet.
If you don't like how it's going you should join it and add your expertise. Join the MeeGo-Community mailing list and give them your ideas about what they should do differently. You don't have to be a programmer.
If you're only concerned personally as an end-user, then I would say you should just forget that MeeGo exists for now. When the day comes that it's ready as the primary OS on your device, I guarantee the news will be all over the internet.
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2011-02-10
, 07:57
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Posts: 196 |
Thanked: 224 times |
Joined on Sep 2010
@ Africa
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#3
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Originally Posted by me2000
It looks like 1.2.
My question is this. When will the Meego community achieve a release that is suitable for every day usage by semi ordinary users ?
Prior to the release of Meego 1.1, I thought it was going to at least be something to "play with". Ie it would be semi usable for people who didn't mind suffering through updates, bugs, etc. Kind of like a Fedora rawhide release. IT wasn't. It turned out to be nothing more than a terminal.
If you don't want to use Meego 1.1 on your N900 as a phone, I think you would be able to play with it. And usually, you won't run rawhide on your only machine while you actually need to work (unless you work for Red Hat - well, it even seems many Red Hat contributors don't really run rawhide, in contrast to some other distros).
I've been watching the Meego 1.2 efforts and I don't see that 1.2 does much of anything yet again for the end user.
Aside from looking at Bugzilla entries, where is it stated exactly what Meego 1.2 and 1.3 are supposed to do ? Ie, where are the deliverables for these milestones ?
Click the links in the table to see the detailed plans for each component.
There are some more interesting links from http://wiki.meego.com/Quality
It seems that the 1.0 and 1.1 releases consisted of exactly what got (mostly) done (and not yet fully debugged) when the milestone freeze date rolled around.
If I was a leader at Nokia, I would march over to Redhat and drag them into the Meego effort. They know how to develop OS software and work with communities. Nokia seems to be floundering around literally aimlessly !
PS: don't give me the "release early and release often" line. That only applies when there is actually something to release.
Even if it were, getting developers on-board also doesn't just require a dialler on a handset, so the 1.1 releases, which are going out on touch-screen netbooks to developers allow developers to develop touch-based apps on Meego, so there are apps available by the time 1.2 is released. Of course, Nokia could have insisted that 1.1 not be released, then maybe 1.2 would be out as a perfect platform, with no 3rd-party apps. Like Maemo.
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2011-02-10
, 09:06
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Posts: 650 |
Thanked: 497 times |
Joined on Oct 2008
@ Ghent, Belgium
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#4
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What I remember from the talk Carsten gave on Fosdem last weekend, is that Meego has already been burried under a thick layer of bureaucracy, and you shouldn't even touch it with a 5 meter stick.
After that talk I just gave up on Meego, the way they are treating it will take ages to get something reasonable out the door - no wonder the new CEO will probably kill it off.
And I wasn't the only one attending that talk that left with that feeling.
After that talk I just gave up on Meego, the way they are treating it will take ages to get something reasonable out the door - no wonder the new CEO will probably kill it off.
And I wasn't the only one attending that talk that left with that feeling.
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2011-02-10
, 09:33
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Posts: 1,671 |
Thanked: 11,478 times |
Joined on Jun 2008
@ Warsaw, Poland
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#5
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Originally Posted by petur
While I admit the talk wasn't one of my best (don't ever order Paella at a tourist trap restaurant), you're putting an interpretation on what I was saying and wording it in a way that makes people believe I actually said that.
What I remember from the talk Carsten gave on Fosdem last weekend, is that Meego has already been burried under a thick layer of bureaucracy, and you shouldn't even touch it with a 5 meter stick.
After that talk I just gave up on Meego, the way they are treating it will take ages to get something reasonable out the door - no wonder the new CEO will probably kill it off.
And I wasn't the only one attending that talk that left with that feeling.
The difference with MeeGo is that you -actually- see the bureaucracy due to the transparency (thanks arfoll). And I'm inclined to believe we might actually have less than normally since everyone's drawing on their experiences from other distros.
Let me see:
http://en.opensuse.org/File:OpenFATE...dling_flow.png - openSUSE requirements process (fairly similar to MeeGo's)
http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Fact...elopment_model - release process (also fairly similar)
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packag...PackageProcess
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:Guidelines
http://www.debian.org/devel/join/nm-checklist
In practice, this bureaucracy is what is needed to run a stable and quality Linux distribution and get releases out on time.
Only thing really added on top is the compliance stuff which is in it's early stages but needed to deliver on one of MeeGo's benefits, which is the promise that a MeeGo compliant app will run on a MeeGo compliant device. And that there's things to be solved (stating our faults instead of it being one big marketing slide praising MeeGo)
What other things would you like to discuss?
__________________
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
Last edited by Stskeeps; 2011-02-10 at 09:37.
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2011-02-10
, 13:02
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Posts: 650 |
Thanked: 497 times |
Joined on Oct 2008
@ Ghent, Belgium
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#6
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Flexibility. You talked about a 6 month release cycle. Granted, it is better than what Nokia manages with the n900, but might be too slow (unless the first release is feature and functionality complete - which I doubt).
The world is moving to rolling updates, fast and flexible fixes...
The world is moving to rolling updates, fast and flexible fixes...
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2011-02-10
, 13:17
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Posts: 1,671 |
Thanked: 11,478 times |
Joined on Jun 2008
@ Warsaw, Poland
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#7
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Originally Posted by petur
Keep in mind that meego.com is the platform on which people base products on. In practice, how vendors will use MeeGo is to keep an application stack on top of stable version as well as development version. Rolling updates of this stack on top is up to vendor to provide.
Flexibility. You talked about a 6 month release cycle. Granted, it is better than what Nokia manages with the n900, but might be too slow (unless the first release is feature and functionality complete - which I doubt).
The world is moving to rolling updates, fast and flexible fixes...
In addition to that, we do have things after 6 month cycle where fixes do go in. Vendors adapt platform fixes easily and let them loose to users too.
MeeGo aims to get products out to the market from different categories during a one-year period after a release, for the devices to be able to always use the latest and greatest MeeGo software. During this period, a lot of updates may be made to support the release and its users. The goal is to keep the quality stable, so that updates can be put into use without problems. This is a quality-first period.
Fixes are actively integrated for two years after the MeeGo release and security fixes are integrated and updated, when necessary, to existing MeeGo releases.
__________________
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
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2011-02-10
, 15:18
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Posts: 1,062 |
Thanked: 961 times |
Joined on May 2010
@ Boston, MA
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#8
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http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering/Plans/1.2
If this is any indication, April 27th is the date we should all be looking forward to
If this is any indication, April 27th is the date we should all be looking forward to
__________________
Want to browse streamlined versions of websites automatically when in 2g? Vote for this brainstorm.
Sick of your cell signal not reconnecting after coming out of a bad signal area? Vote for this bug.
Want to browse streamlined versions of websites automatically when in 2g? Vote for this brainstorm.
Sick of your cell signal not reconnecting after coming out of a bad signal area? Vote for this bug.
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2011-02-10
, 15:21
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Posts: 968 |
Thanked: 974 times |
Joined on Nov 2008
@ Ohio
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#9
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Originally Posted by Stskeeps
So, is there a roadmap / timeline for completing the compliance stuff? Or is it something that will be quickly addressed so that one of the major players can release a MeeGo (or MeeGo instance) device?
Only thing really added on top is the compliance stuff which is in it's early stages but needed to deliver on one of MeeGo's benefits, which is the promise that a MeeGo compliant app will run on a MeeGo compliant device. And that there's things to be solved (stating our faults instead of it being one big marketing slide praising MeeGo)
As has been noted in other discussions, nobody can release a "MeeGo" device unitl the compliance standard is set. It's assumed that anyone who releases a "MeeGo" device before the standards are set is by default non-compliant, and would likely end up discussing this with legal council.
So, to a degree, it doesn't matter if MeeGo is on 1.2, 1.3 or 2.3 if the compliance issues aren't addressed.
__________________
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My script to backup /home and /opt
Samsung Galaxy S Vibrant, Huawei S7, N900(retired), N800(retired)
*Consumer*, not a developer! I apologize for any inconvenience.
My script to backup /home and /opt
Samsung Galaxy S Vibrant, Huawei S7, N900(retired), N800(retired)
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2011-02-11
, 05:43
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Posts: 41 |
Thanked: 22 times |
Joined on Aug 2010
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#10
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Stskeep, I'm really encouraged to see Meego devs here. Just to add in my voice: there's bunches of us users out there just waiting for a working version of Meego. (I.e. more than a terminal.) Don't make us wait any more than you have to! 
cfh11: thanks for that link. Good to see a release date in black and white!
cfh11: thanks for that link. Good to see a release date in black and white!
Earlier this week we happened to get a peak into a supposedly confidential internal memo that painted a disappointing picture for Meego.
My question is this. When will the Meego community achieve a release that is suitable for every day usage by semi ordinary users ?
Prior to the release of Meego 1.1, I thought it was going to at least be something to "play with". Ie it would be semi usable for people who didn't mind suffering through updates, bugs, etc. Kind of like a Fedora rawhide release. IT wasn't. It turned out to be nothing more than a terminal.
I've been watching the Meego 1.2 efforts and I don't see that 1.2 does much of anything yet again for the end user.
Aside from looking at Bugzilla entries, where is it stated exactly what Meego 1.2 and 1.3 are supposed to do ? Ie, where are the deliverables for these milestones ?
It seems that the 1.0 and 1.1 releases consisted of exactly what got (mostly) done (and not yet fully debugged) when the milestone freeze date rolled around.
If I was a leader at Nokia, I would march over to Redhat and drag them into the Meego effort. They know how to develop OS software and work with communities. Nokia seems to be floundering around literally aimlessly !
PS: don't give me the "release early and release often" line. That only applies when there is actually something to release.
Last edited by me2000; 2011-02-09 at 21:00.