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2012-02-26
, 11:36
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Posts: 1,625 |
Thanked: 998 times |
Joined on Aug 2010
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#12
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Originally Posted by chaohuei
thanks for the links!
[...]
How Stuff Works, Battery University, and *gasp* Apple.
I'd assume that Apple's situation is closest to the N9's since the battery in iOS devices isn't user replaceable, and it'd be in Apple's best interest to avoid making users get new batteries. Of course, I suppose it could be part of their devious plan to milk more money out of Apple lovers.
i went thru the Apple advice and actually only found one instance of where they advice fully discharge / recharge
If on the other hand, you use a desktop computer at work, and save a notebook for infrequent travel, Apple recommends charging and discharging its battery at least once per month
from a Dell FAQ...
Should I totally discharge, then recharge my Dell laptop battery occasionally to make it last longer?
No, discharging and charging does not increase the life of a Lithium Ion technology battery.
What does Dell recommend for battery storage for a long period of time?
When storing for more than 4 days these guidelines can better preserve the life of your battery:
- Do not store batteries for long periods plugged into or attached to any power source. This includes AC adapters and laptop security carts plugged into an outlet.
- Laptop batteries, including those stored in laptop systems, should maintain an Operational Storage Temperature of 0° to 35°C (32° to 95°F).
- Batteries may be stored in the laptop or outside of the laptop.
- Charge batteries before storing. The recommended charging time should not exceed 1 hour. Typically, this should charge the battery to between 80% and 100%. (Some discharge will take place over time. Stored batteries are expected to discharge 10-15% over a four month period, for your information.)
knows gawd i'm not a iPotato fan, thus must haven gotten that from elsewhere; maybe even before Li-ion
according to Dell, full discharge / recharge are not needed, even in long term storage
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2012-02-27
, 16:33
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Moderator |
Posts: 5,320 |
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Joined on Oct 2009
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#13
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It is true that Li-Ion batteries benefit from a full dis/rech...
I have the MH-C9000 (best AA/AAA smart charger on the planet) & one of it's routines for optimizing the battery (break-in mode).
Is a sequence of discharging & recharging....
It doesn't have a huge impact, but is beneficial for the LT condition of the battery.
Got to a forum like candlepower and all the battery nuts there will say the same.
However it could be that this won't apply to Li-Ion batteries in the N9, because of the controller chip & how it regulates charge.
Last edited by jalyst; 2012-02-27 at 16:41.
I have the MH-C9000 (best AA/AAA smart charger on the planet) & one of it's routines for optimizing the battery (break-in mode).
Is a sequence of discharging & recharging....
It doesn't have a huge impact, but is beneficial for the LT condition of the battery.
Got to a forum like candlepower and all the battery nuts there will say the same.
However it could be that this won't apply to Li-Ion batteries in the N9, because of the controller chip & how it regulates charge.
Last edited by jalyst; 2012-02-27 at 16:41.
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2012-02-28
, 18:07
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Posts: 32 |
Thanked: 4 times |
Joined on Feb 2012
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#14
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On this subject,
I'm a new N9 user and I've been casually monitoring battery performance for the past few days. It started off with a bag (36 hours on one charge), but as of yesterday it lasted less than 24hrs before going dead.
My situation: I use t-mo's unlimited data (prepaid) plan in the US, so my phone is always connected to mail, calendar, facebook, etc. Apart from tht maybe 1.5 hours of talk time at the max. I listen to some music, and hardly ever use Wifi. My auto internet connection is set to the t-mo data plan.
Today I changed settings for mail (gmail and one more), fb, calender (once a day syncing now), to much less frequent refreshing times (every 4 hours during peak time cuz I have my laptop on wifi), once daily for calendar sync etc. So, I'm hoping this at least gives me 24hrs for a full charge. Otherwise I'd be bummed...
I'm a new N9 user and I've been casually monitoring battery performance for the past few days. It started off with a bag (36 hours on one charge), but as of yesterday it lasted less than 24hrs before going dead.
My situation: I use t-mo's unlimited data (prepaid) plan in the US, so my phone is always connected to mail, calendar, facebook, etc. Apart from tht maybe 1.5 hours of talk time at the max. I listen to some music, and hardly ever use Wifi. My auto internet connection is set to the t-mo data plan.
Today I changed settings for mail (gmail and one more), fb, calender (once a day syncing now), to much less frequent refreshing times (every 4 hours during peak time cuz I have my laptop on wifi), once daily for calendar sync etc. So, I'm hoping this at least gives me 24hrs for a full charge. Otherwise I'd be bummed...
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2012-02-28
, 18:34
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Posts: 1,625 |
Thanked: 998 times |
Joined on Aug 2010
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#15
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Originally Posted by jalyst
i don't think this is something "electronic", controller driven. rather strikes me as a "chemical" feature of Li-ion.
It is true that Li-Ion batteries benefit from a full dis/rech...
I have the MH-C9000 (best AA/AAA smart charger on the planet) & one of it's routines for optimizing the battery (break-in mode).
Is a sequence of discharging & recharging....
It doesn't have a huge impact, but is beneficial for the LT condition of the battery.
Got to a forum like candlepower and all the battery nuts there will say the same.
However it could be that this won't apply to Li-Ion batteries in the N9, because of the controller chip & how it regulates charge.
it doesn't have a "memory effect" but rather can go thru a limited number of charge cycles
thus applying to any Li-ion battery, no matter how it is charged.
two caveats:
- emptying / discharging the battery down to 50%, recharging it, emptying it to 50% and charging it again counts as one cycle
- if the battery stays discharged too long (weeks, months?) it loses it "energy storing" capabilities.
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2012-02-28
, 21:15
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Moderator |
Posts: 5,320 |
Thanked: 4,464 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
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#16
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^candlepower forums. There are benefits to "breaking in" stand-alone Li-ion's
Whether that holds true for the battery in a phone like the N9 I've no idea.
Last edited by jalyst; 2012-02-28 at 21:17.
Whether that holds true for the battery in a phone like the N9 I've no idea.
Last edited by jalyst; 2012-02-28 at 21:17.
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2012-02-28
, 21:56
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Posts: 951 |
Thanked: 2,344 times |
Joined on Jan 2012
@ UK
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#17
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Does having the WLAN or 3G connection always on wastes a lot of battery?
I was told that having it on all the time does not increase the idle power consumption, but not fully sure if that's true. Can anyone confirm this?
I was told that having it on all the time does not increase the idle power consumption, but not fully sure if that's true. Can anyone confirm this?
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2012-02-29
, 17:26
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Posts: 188 |
Thanked: 90 times |
Joined on Sep 2006
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#18
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From my discussions with people that should be somewhat in the know on Li-Ion batteries:
- do not discharge below 3.2V, do not ever overcharge above 4.2V (well, perhaps 4.25V)
- no memory effect indeed, so no need to wait for it to be discharged entirely
- phones have controller chips on the battery that will avoid any charge taken out when it hits the preprogrammed level (which can be 3.2V, 3.4V, 3.6V, whatever); at that point, it will appear dead - BUT when connecting a charger, some charge will trickle into it, and some (older/old style) phones will therefore take up to 15 minutes to show a sign of life!! New phones have a bypass system on that battery charging mechanism, so they can have a 'dead' battery that's on life support/being revived, yet still immediately boot to avoid the customer returning to the shop with a non-broken device merely suffering from deep-discharge
- some phones have a so called gas-gauge (N9 included) which continuously monitors the current out of the battery (measures the voltage over a small resistor in series with the battery), to allow to do real estimates of the charge level, since determining the remaining energy is not reliably doable anymore due to the voltage being "too" stable over discharge (voltage over time/usage curve is 'flat' for a long time, then suddenly dropping off; due to the flat section, from the voltage it's hard to estimate when the drop will come) - this gas-gauge also allows to fine tune the charge current to extend the battery lifetime; not sure in how far the N9 charging mechanism exploits this possibility
So no matter what the battery "nuts" say, it all depends on what the "pro's" actually implement (and by "pro" I mean those who build the systems / paid workers, not implying that they know more by default).
- do not discharge below 3.2V, do not ever overcharge above 4.2V (well, perhaps 4.25V)
- no memory effect indeed, so no need to wait for it to be discharged entirely
- phones have controller chips on the battery that will avoid any charge taken out when it hits the preprogrammed level (which can be 3.2V, 3.4V, 3.6V, whatever); at that point, it will appear dead - BUT when connecting a charger, some charge will trickle into it, and some (older/old style) phones will therefore take up to 15 minutes to show a sign of life!! New phones have a bypass system on that battery charging mechanism, so they can have a 'dead' battery that's on life support/being revived, yet still immediately boot to avoid the customer returning to the shop with a non-broken device merely suffering from deep-discharge
- some phones have a so called gas-gauge (N9 included) which continuously monitors the current out of the battery (measures the voltage over a small resistor in series with the battery), to allow to do real estimates of the charge level, since determining the remaining energy is not reliably doable anymore due to the voltage being "too" stable over discharge (voltage over time/usage curve is 'flat' for a long time, then suddenly dropping off; due to the flat section, from the voltage it's hard to estimate when the drop will come) - this gas-gauge also allows to fine tune the charge current to extend the battery lifetime; not sure in how far the N9 charging mechanism exploits this possibility
So no matter what the battery "nuts" say, it all depends on what the "pro's" actually implement (and by "pro" I mean those who build the systems / paid workers, not implying that they know more by default).
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2012-02-29
, 19:23
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Posts: 5,320 |
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#19
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Originally Posted by aRTee
Good info, thanks.....
So no matter what the battery "nuts" say, it all depends on what the "pro's" actually implement (and by "pro" I mean those who build the systems / paid workers, not implying that they know more by default).
I was speaking from the context of stand-alone batteries when I referred to "nuts".
I suspected it would be quite different for a smartphone Li-Ion.
Last edited by jalyst; 2012-02-29 at 19:28. Reason: typo
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2012-02-29
, 22:03
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Posts: 1,625 |
Thanked: 998 times |
Joined on Aug 2010
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#20
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Originally Posted by mariusmssj
using common sense here...
Does having the WLAN or 3G connection always on wastes a lot of battery?
I was told that having it on all the time does not increase the idle power consumption, but not fully sure if that's true. Can anyone confirm this?
no, indeed, just turning on your WLAN modem or even actually connecting to a WLAN (especially if like on the N900 you can lower the power from 100 mW to 10 mW) does not use that much power.
alas, the moment you get an IP address, the e-mail will get checked (can reduce that power consumption by setting the update interval to 1 hr. though), your favourite Instant Messaging program may go online too, telling everyone you are online, where you are, what you are doing, whom you are talking too, what pretty girl's legs you are staring at and knows gawd what else...
)THAT definitely is going to use a lot'a power
dito any other "client" program updating socal net sites or the like
or, the other way around, RSS feeds
again, if you limit the power to 10 mW (still an option on the N9(50)?) you can limit the consumption, but nonetheless the data has to be transmitted, thus the IP packets sent & received...
now, 2G or 3G networking... considering that the GSM connection isn't as stable as the WLAN one (when you are moving, which is usually the case when you use 2G / 3G) you can't limit the power consumption because if an obstacle is getting between you & the cell, the modem will have to increase the power to stay connected...
power consumption of 2G versus 3G?
think of it as mileage of cars...
if you have to go somewhere on your own, you could go with a small car, thus little consumption...
the whole office coming for the trip, you'll need a larger car, thus higher fuel / power consumption
same thing for your mobile; you can IM perfectly well with 2G because the text sent back & forth need little bandwidth, thus less power.
if you are updating a social site with your GPS position and knows gawd what else, there is going to be a lot more data traffic and you will have to switch to 3G (and use more power).
long story short; any additional device turned on uses power, if it's not used, indeed, the power consumption will be minimal, but it will still drain the battery as well. especially 3G, it is a little like the SUV of comm
and one of the reasons the predecessors of the N900 (770, N8x0) didn't even have a GSM modem; simply used too much power if always connected...
As for draining the battery, I'm actually seeing conflicting information about fully discharging Li-ion batteries at the end of the "Ideas for good battery life on N900 and N9?" thread in this forum. This seems to be backed up by a couple different websites I found:
How Stuff Works, Battery University, and *gasp* Apple.
I'd assume that Apple's situation is closest to the N9's since the battery in iOS devices isn't user replaceable, and it'd be in Apple's best interest to avoid making users get new batteries. Of course, I suppose it could be part of their devious plan to milk more money out of Apple lovers.