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Poll: How much would you be willing to pay for a Neo900 (complete device) with TI DM3730 1GHz/512M-RAM/1GB
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How much would you be willing to pay for a Neo900 (complete device) with TI DM3730 1GHz/512M-RAM/1GB

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#3051
Originally Posted by pichlo View Post
I believed and still believe that "an N900 with a faster CPU and more RAM", as per the poll question at the top of this page, was an achievable goal. It was all the "better infrared", "turn-off-able modem" and "rewrite the entire OS" mission creep that eventually killed the project.
I can assure you none of all the problems we face (price, human resources, number of preorders...) is any related to "better infrared", "turn-off-able modem", and "rewrite the entire OS" was definitely exactly NOT our goal, otherwise we could have used an arbitrary newer CPU. It's one of the nicer parts of developing a hw product that improvements and smart design actualy do NOT have a huge impact to feasibility and cost of the whole device.

[edit] well probably without "turn-off-able modem" the number of preorders would actually be even lower so they are related, just the opposite way of what you insinuated.
[edit2] until I resign or die or announce bankruptcy (and actually even after any of that), it's the community who kills the project or keeps it alive. I don't see a "killed project" yet since comments like yours are the minority still. As long as a single person still ponders how to help this dream come true, the project lives - what changes is the likelihood and date of it resulting in the desired achievement, the more supporters the faster and more likely we see success.
/j

Last edited by joerg_rw; 2018-01-25 at 14:23. Reason: edit2
 

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#3052
Originally Posted by Ken-Young View Post
The most recent ublog posting on the neo900.org site is a Christmas update. Christmas 2016.
the uBlog is broken and actually always been, sorry I probably simply should nuke it from the site
How comes despite we offer all the sourcecode of the website on git (http://neo900.org/git/www/log/) and told several times we are no web developers unlike most "programmers" out there claim to be, we rarely ever seen a single community contribution?
A BIG THANK YOU to arch_tk and sn0wmonster who did and do help and contribute, as well as to the few others that did and I missed to mention them here.

Last edited by joerg_rw; 2018-01-25 at 14:36.
 

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#3053
Originally Posted by biketool View Post
Naw, I just wanted to take a shot at using him as my human megaphone for inclusion of POCSAG paging in proposed FOSS phones. Sadly despite him being the famous no-phone guy nobody has taken up that challenge.
We just happen to share a desire for hardware and software which works for us not some corporation or some state's spy agency.
Neo900 did take up the challenge. We evaluated that concept and found we can't include a pager receiver since there are simply too many different standards in different areas of this globe. We however have hackerbus that totally allows plugging in such receiver as a user hw extension. We informed RMS about that option since he originally suggested that concept to us. Alas he doesn't like the fact that our modem has a documented method to update the firmware since that defeats the RYF approach of pretending ignorance of any software/firmware in peripherals. Note that this is not at all a technical objection but merely an arbitrary semantic one - if we could get an identical modem with documentation that simply doesn't list the command for firmware update, we would comply with FSF's RYF and RMS' desires in that regard.
[/@biketool]

@to_whom_it_may_concern
instead of introspectively / almost autisitcally focusing on how poor the chief technical officer performs with frequent website update since our all-time very best guy dos1 doesn't have the energy to take care about that anymore, you could spread the word that Neo900 actually *is* RMS' dream phone he would consider using (if it wasn't for us providing TOO MUCH documentation on modem). While this might be irrelevant to you guys since you don't consider RMS a relevant reference, it would still help generate a lot of preorders and support from the zillions of users out there who actually DO care what FSF recommends and RMS likes.

/j

Last edited by joerg_rw; 2018-01-25 at 15:40. Reason: @to_whom_it_may_concern
 

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#3054
Joerg, Sorry didn't mean that to come out $#!tty towards you, I have been bugging him to use his louder voice for years for a pager-smartphone, I turned RMS onto the idea. I am also disappointed in his 'no solder trace' = unupdatable so unhackable black box BS.
Nobody took up the project really meant that nobody ELSE took up the project, but like the rest of the believers I also dont have a Neo900 in my hands though if it were out and I had the cash I would carry that instead of a N900 in my pocket with a hackerbus pager module.
 

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#3055
Originally Posted by biketool View Post
Joerg, Sorry didn't mean that to come out $#!tty towards you
Neither did I, though it may have come across that way.
I'm just sad, that's all.
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#3056
no blame at all

just +1
Originally Posted by pichlo View Post
...
I'm just sad, that's all.
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#3057
still no answer or news from metacollin. I'm short of better ideas than just waiting for him to return, as finding a new layouter isn't really an option for feasibility, timing and financial reasons.

I really hope he is well and just needed a recovery time which he was smarter than me and actually took it.
 

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#3058
Originally Posted by Ken-Young View Post
Drastically reduced, i suspect. Since the specs are so poor now compared to modern hardware, and the price is high, only people who value privacy above all else in a phone will be interested. Most of the people who want to tinker with hardware will have moved to Pis. The fact that they talk about trying to get another round of funding before shipping the devices suggests detachment from reality has set in.
Raspberry Pi isn't exactly a pocketable phone with a keyboard. Sure, mods are available, like #ZeroPhone (which is 2G-only), but 3G-capable Linux with hardware keyboard, resistive touchscreen, and fitting into a pocket? And that's not mentioning other "niche" features, such as infrared transceiver and stylus detection (and RGB backlight for keyboard).

Glad to hear the git issues didn't persist, and new commits have publishing delayed till shipping date.

Originally Posted by joerg_rw View Post
still no answer or news from metacollin. I'm short of better ideas than just waiting for him to return, as finding a new layouter isn't really an option for feasibility, timing and financial reasons.

I really hope he is well and just needed a recovery time which he was smarter than me and actually took it.
Hope that Metacollin is well and will return soon. jOERG, get better please, you have STEP2 to make after Neo900 is released!

Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
So how can we help?
I wish I knew how to help. I have at least 6 pre-orders for Neo900 complete device, since two or three years ago; not in a situation to pre-order hundreds of devices ;-) . No experience with KiCad, at all.

Spread the word? If you have IT people who regularly use Linux, and complain about difficulties with ssh-ing into a remote machine from an Android phone... Recommend N(eo)900 as "the phone which runs Linux"; maybe mention that besides bugfixes and improvements in CSSU, it has a major new release in the works.

Originally Posted by biketool View Post
Joerg, GDC, Neo900 team, TMO,
I do not fault you and the Neo900 team when I make statements of resignation to our fate.
I would contribute to the Neo900 and did buy a GTA02 because I was part of that bleeding edge who wanted truly free hardware, I had more free cash then.
There seems to simply not be enough of us who care out there to make a real difference.
If we want gnu Linux or another FOSS and radically free hardware device we need to sell more people on the concept before we can get our stuff, or we need to find a very wealthy patron who will decide for us what we will get with a subsidy.
As long as we see real nerds falling into the arms of the walled garden and buying hardware there we wont get the devices that we and probably they truly want.
At least, I don't have/use an Android phone, yet ;-) Or BlackBerry, or Microsoft, for that matter. On that topic, it would be nice to make sure that apkenv actually works, on Maemo, Mer, Sailfish platforms. Would make it much less likely that nerds switch to Android under peer pressure. Also, does Facebook on Maemo 5 work atm? Skype?

Originally Posted by pichlo View Post
That is one way of seeing it. Another way is that I am a customer buying a product. And I expect the team building the product to approach it as a business. Not as an ideological mission.

Running a business includes setting yourself achievable goals and sticking to them. A good example is Chen and his Moto keyboard. He set himself an achievable goal, said exactly what he would deliver and resisted interference. And there you go - a result!

I believed and still believe that "an N900 with a faster CPU and more RAM", as per the poll question at the top of this page, was an achievable goal. It was all the "better infrared", "turn-off-able modem" and "rewrite the entire OS" mission creep that eventually killed the project.

Sure, by all means, build that as the next project. You cannot jump a mountain in one big leap. You climb it step by step.
While I do admire Chen's work on Moto keyboard, I didn't buy one. Because Motorola phones have capacitive touchscreens, as far as I know; also, I am not that interested in "yet another Android phone".

All the "better infrared", "turn-off-able modem" and similar hardware features are the reasons why Neo900 is a groundbreaking project, admired for its approach to privacy and malware amidst other advantages. Just look at the quote:

Originally Posted by sulu View Post
While I agree with you on the point of businesses and achievable goals in general, I do not agree with you on the Neo900-specific "mission creep".

I don't care about the "better infrared" or the "rewrite the entire OS", but to me the "turn-off-able modem", respectively the underlying attitude of "privacy above all else", has always been "the product".
I would have even signed up for the Neo900 if the replacement board hadn't promised any perfomance increase at all, as long as it would have been a phone being able to run Debian.
What I would not have signed up for is a 10x faster device with the same design defect like the N900 of having a "semi-open" OS that would grind to a slow death because proprietary bits keep it from having security issues fixed. If I wanted that, then I would have already bought half a dozen android phones.
"rewrite the entire OS" project by Fremantle Porting Task Force didn't slow down Neo900 progress, and is in fact reason why N900 will be rejuvenated, with newer Linux kernel and many reverse-engineered blobs. It will greatly delay Maemo's fall into obscurity, by making it more compatible with modern software, and less likely to fall prey to "WONT FIX".

Next project, STEP2, may become the "modern specifications" Linux phone which will not have limitations such as usage of OMAP3. I do hope that it happens, just like I hope that GTA04 project is moving forward.

Originally Posted by sulu View Post
As it stands, the Neo900 currently is sort of like a "technological artifact" to me. I don't actually count on ever receiving one anymore.
I'm mainly sticking to it now, because the money I invested in it doesn't hurt me, and in the unlikely case that one day it will be shipped I will have something that might not actually be useful, but it will be a rare example of the embodyment of an idea I support.
I think of it as some piece of art. You don't buy a Picasso because it's useful.
I may disagree on that, just a little: while it is sort of like a "technological artifact", I do expect to receive it, in a year or two (or three) [don't let that make you pessimistic about future of the project]. The money I invested in it doesn't hurt me [it provides a sense of hope for better future]. And in the case that it will be shipped, I will find it useful - just like tiny, low-specification Pebble Time smartwatch has its usefulness - just not for crunching numbers [or loading heavy webpages in their unfiltered, ad-riddled ugliness].
Any piece of technology should be a piece of art.

Originally Posted by joerg_rw View Post
the uBlog is broken and actually always been, sorry I probably simply should nuke it from the site
How comes despite we offer all the sourcecode of the website on git (http://neo900.org/git/www/log/) and told several times we are no web developers unlike most "programmers" out there claim to be, we rarely ever seen a single community contribution?
A BIG THANK YOU to arch_tk and sn0wmonster who did and do help and contribute, as well as to the few others that did and I missed to mention them here.
Should look at the git repository some time. Though I have no experience with uBlog in particular or web developing in general...

Originally Posted by joerg_rw View Post
Neo900 did take up the challenge. We evaluated that concept and found we can't include a pager receiver since there are simply too many different standards in different areas of this globe. We however have hackerbus that totally allows plugging in such receiver as a user hw extension. We informed RMS about that option since he originally suggested that concept to us. Alas he doesn't like the fact that our modem has a documented method to update the firmware since that defeats the RYF approach of pretending ignorance of any software/firmware in peripherals. Note that this is not at all a technical objection but merely an arbitrary semantic one - if we could get an identical modem with documentation that simply doesn't list the command for firmware update, we would comply with FSF's RYF and RMS' desires in that regard.
Good point. Wish FSF at least mentioned Neo900 in one of their newsletters aka Bulletin.

Thank you. Best wishes.
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#3059
What,
in a bullet list format,
remains to be done ?


If the objective (shipping devices)
can be summarized in some stepwise fashion
there are people who may be able to help.

It could be a 'progress poster' thing.

A 'single phrase' serving suggestion might be:

* PCB Layout finalized +> qc tests
* PCBs etched +> qc steps
* Parts attached +> tp testing
* Unit initialization +> basic bios/boot test
* ?

Obviously this is a crude planning hack,
but even if you only get a PC board out there
it will be unequaled and unrivaled on day one


HTH, cheers


Originally Posted by Wikiwide View Post
Raspberry Pi isn't exactly a pocketable phone with a keyboard. Sure, mods are available, like #ZeroPhone (which is 2G-only), but 3G-capable Linux with hardware keyboard, resistive touchscreen, and fitting into a pocket? And that's not mentioning other "niche" features, such as infrared transceiver and stylus detection (and RGB backlight for keyboard)....

...Good point. Wish FSF at least mentioned Neo900 in one of their newsletters aka Bulletin.

Thank you. Best wishes.
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#3060
Originally Posted by Wikiwide View Post
Raspberry Pi isn't exactly a pocketable phone with a keyboard. Sure, mods are available, like #ZeroPhone (which is 2G-only), but 3G-capable Linux with hardware keyboard, resistive touchscreen, and fitting into a pocket? And that's not mentioning other "niche" features, such as infrared transceiver and stylus detection (and RGB backlight for keyboard).
the thing is that 3G is on it's way out. They need spectrum.... And some will switch to VoLTE, some will keep 2G for calls for various reasons but 3G is dead or will be very soon.
 

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