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2008-08-05
, 19:38
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Posts: 398 |
Thanked: 77 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
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#32
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although my age and the number of posts qualify me a "senior member" i am by no means the most knowledgeable person in the forum. i have asked newbie questions and self-created problems and have at times from some folk been given - if you had searched blah blah blah..... well because i am stubborn (a by-product of being old) i have found the answer and learned from it.... that is me... on the other hand i can see many people (like my wife ) who actually bought an ipod touch rather than deal w/alot of what she considers snarkiness from what she saw in the forums.. ymmv....this is not a rant but i think this forum is not really designed for a casual end user but rather a serious hobbyist.
if the n8x0 series and beyond is to be a mass-market consumer item rather than a specialty item then there has to be a mass market type of forum... this forum does not fit that bill.
if the n8x0 series and beyond is to be a mass-market consumer item rather than a specialty item then there has to be a mass market type of forum... this forum does not fit that bill.
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2008-08-05
, 19:45
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Posts: 566 |
Thanked: 145 times |
Joined on Feb 2008
@ Tallahassee, FL
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#33
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Originally Posted by prk60091
When your wife wants to jailbreak that ipod touch, and start doing the sorts of things that are (or more easily can be) more commonplace on the Nokia Tablets, she may find herself facing an even more openly hostile and snarky bunch there than what she perceives of us, here... on the other hand i can see many people (like my wife ) who actually bought an ipod touch rather than deal w/alot of what she considers snarkiness from what she saw in the forums.. ymmv....this is not a rant but i think this forum is not really designed for a casual end user but rather a serious hobbyist.
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N800 / OS2008
Now running Canola-free (by invitation) since 2215 UTC 21 May 2008.
N800 / OS2008
Now running Canola-free (by invitation) since 2215 UTC 21 May 2008.
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2008-08-05
, 19:58
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Posts: 1,436 |
Thanked: 3,144 times |
Joined on Jul 2005
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#34
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Originally Posted by harpgliss
I would think, the same members here, who have the answers, will answer the questions there and in the same manner.
Not really seeing a change unless you are telling members they have to provide answers in a certain way on the new site or do not help.
Maybe a pessimistic way of seeing things but I happen to se it as being realistic.
I am not a newbie to forums and tech in any way and this is the way things go.
Trying to reinvent the wheel when you are using the same information and resources just gets you another wheel.
In the end, it may be helpful but is it necessary?
David, nice to see you here at itT.
I see your point. The objective here is not really to reinvent. It's not even to repeat information. If some really new user decides to ask about how to convert a video to internet tablet format, I would probably give him/her a list of different software to try, and then provide links to specific Internet Tablet Talk video converter threads. Right now, a similar post here in itT might not receive the same helpful response.
Eventually, we hope that as new users learn and know more about the ins and outs of Maemo devices, they would graduate from Tablet Scene to Internet Tablet Talk.
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Reggie Suplido
Reggie Suplido
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2008-08-05
, 20:04
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Posts: 5,335 |
Thanked: 8,187 times |
Joined on Mar 2007
@ Pennsylvania, USA
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#35
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Originally Posted by Cptnodegard
How will a separate, more newbie-friendly forum help with that though?
I think its a good idea. Whenever someone asks for something in here, the most likely outcome is an answer that involves writing a novel in xterm...
<snip>
...a lot of stuff on ITT (like mouse polling, screen rotate) ive stayed faaaar away from because i dont get half of the **** in the "how to"s.
Let's say I've just purchased my first tablet: a shiny, new N810. I've seen a video on YouTube demonstrating portrait web browsing, RSS reading, etc. on a tablet just like mine, and I want in on that fun. I find a web site with great, newbie-friendly fora for tablet questions, and I start a new thread asking how I can do what I've seen on YouTube.
Now, as you've written, basic, step-by-step directions to accomplish this task have already been posted here on Internet Tablet Talk many times. However, as you've also written, they're no good, as they require opening X Terminal. So, should the newbie helpers on the new site post the step-by-steps there anyway (effectively replicating Internet Tablet Talk), or should they tell the newbie to forget about screen rotation, it's just too difficult?
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maemo.org profile
maemo.org profile
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2008-08-05
, 20:23
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Posts: 3,397 |
Thanked: 1,212 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Netherlands
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#36
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I, for one, applaud the initiative!
It is also possible to merge data back on forth.
Searching is a whole art by itself.
Teach a man to fish who just can't get the hand of it, and he has a long beard & wasted a lot of time to get at a solid level whereas the man is a terrific shepherd.
In our society, specializing in a tool of the trade is mandatory.
Every person has their positive and negative traits.
If you want the NIT to be user friendly you need to lower the barrier for people who are less technically inclined. One thing is for sure: Nokia wants this. And given the clones arrising there is a bit pressure to get the ball rolling. Even if your relate this still on intelligence (I suggest one doesn't) these people aren't idiots, the users here aren't uber. Thinking in such lines is incredibly arrogant, and I see several people in this thread arguing in such manner. The irony is that this alone justifies this change!
It is also possible to merge data back on forth.
Originally Posted by fatalsaint
Some people just want the device to work, and they have some small questions. If other users would like to help them out, there is no issue of UTFS.
Yes but if you are telling the "answerer" to "search" to help the "newbie" that is completely backwards.
I'm with Benson.. If the question looks thought out and the asker presents themself in such a way that it appears they did do some work on their own to find it out.. I'll lay it out for them.. give them exact search words with a link directly to the article.
If they just pop up and post a question on something that was just answered and is still 2 threads beneath their own.... No. Not worth my time and energy helping people that don't want to help themself...
The old addage:
Catch a man a fish - feed him for a day..
teach a man to fish - feed him for life.
Seriously.. the Search button is a newbies best friend.
Searching is a whole art by itself.
Teach a man to fish who just can't get the hand of it, and he has a long beard & wasted a lot of time to get at a solid level whereas the man is a terrific shepherd.
In our society, specializing in a tool of the trade is mandatory.
Every person has their positive and negative traits.
If you want the NIT to be user friendly you need to lower the barrier for people who are less technically inclined. One thing is for sure: Nokia wants this. And given the clones arrising there is a bit pressure to get the ball rolling. Even if your relate this still on intelligence (I suggest one doesn't) these people aren't idiots, the users here aren't uber. Thinking in such lines is incredibly arrogant, and I see several people in this thread arguing in such manner. The irony is that this alone justifies this change!
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Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
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2008-08-05
, 20:28
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Posts: 1,076 |
Thanked: 176 times |
Joined on Mar 2007
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#37
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Originally Posted by andrewfblack
Agreed. Some people on the ITT forums could use some basic "human compassion" training. Sometimes I feel a smart *** comment welling up but I repress it most of the time. I let off on older members because it's all good, but the amount of times noobs have been flamed for asking for help is ridiculous.
Not only do I think its a good idea to help new people but I almost left ITT the first time I was told to just go search and find the answer my self. This is something the community has needed for a long time. I personally think anyone who really doesn't want to help new people should just stay away from that site. Just my idea.
Edit: I just want everyone to know I'm not saying anyone who posted before me said to search the forums or don't want to help new people.
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2008-08-05
, 20:44
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Posts: 284 |
Thanked: 80 times |
Joined on Mar 2007
@ London, UK
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#38
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Originally Posted by sjgadsby
I see what you mean, but I think part of the goal of the new site is to keep it concise and clear, not only for less technically minded people, but even those techies new to the Tablet that haven't got the time or inclination to read through a long (albeit an educational & comprehensive) 30 page thread. Also, nothing wrong with referencing existing threads remember.
How will a separate, more newbie-friendly forum help with that though?
Let's say I've just purchased my first tablet: a shiny, new N810. I've seen a video on YouTube demonstrating portrait web browsing, RSS reading, etc. on a tablet just like mine, and I want in on that fun. I find a web site with great, newbie-friendly fora for tablet questions, and I start a new thread asking how I can do what I've seen on YouTube.
Now, as you've written, basic, step-by-step directions to accomplish this task have already been posted here on Internet Tablet Talk many times. However, as you've also written, they're no good, as they require opening X Terminal. So, should the newbie helpers on the new site post the step-by-steps there anyway (effectively replicating Internet Tablet Talk), or should they tell the newbie to forget about screen rotation, it's just too difficult?
I expect a lot of us would initially need to think twice before submitting a response, to consider the target audience and maybe crop / amend as required.
Maybe a key will help
itT = Uber [wannabe] Tableteers
TS = Everyone welcome, don't be scared, no geek talk!
Well, at least that's how I see it [going].
Sounds pretty good to me!
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2008-08-05
, 20:51
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Posts: 3,397 |
Thanked: 1,212 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Netherlands
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#39
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For sure, Faz. BTW, many communities have 'newbie friendly' platforms. Like kernelnewbies.org is for Linux kernel development. In the longer term it has the potention to get more people into Linux kernel development (even if its a small patch). You can't have people to go to university right away; first elementary school & college. There is a reason these schools are all in different buildings & locations; they specialize for different audiences.
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2008-08-05
, 21:12
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Posts: 566 |
Thanked: 150 times |
Joined on Dec 2007
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#40
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I agree that the current situation isn't very newbie friendly. Part of it is caused the fragmentation and inconsistencies of the various websites, which is what Quim is working on.
Another factor is the neglection of the ITT Wiki. But you won't solve this by creating yet another one. The main problem is how to keep the content up to date and well organized. And I would rather have one well kept wiki with some kind of difficulty rating for how-tos. Maybe it's time for better wiki software so it's easier (and more fun) to maintain/tag/organize/search for content?
I think the idea of article style how tos is great. Newbies won't search for something in the wiki if they don't know that you can do something in the first place. How about add some video tutorials?
I don't agree there is much unfriendlyness to newbie generally here. Compared to other forums I think it's actually quite civilized and friendly. And asking people to search and ask proper questions is just basic forum etiquette. The problem as I see it is that newbies wll read about things like running Debian or cloning to SD without realizing that those things are actually advanced hacks.
Last edited by iamthewalrus; 2008-08-05 at 23:26.
Another factor is the neglection of the ITT Wiki. But you won't solve this by creating yet another one. The main problem is how to keep the content up to date and well organized. And I would rather have one well kept wiki with some kind of difficulty rating for how-tos. Maybe it's time for better wiki software so it's easier (and more fun) to maintain/tag/organize/search for content?
I think the idea of article style how tos is great. Newbies won't search for something in the wiki if they don't know that you can do something in the first place. How about add some video tutorials?
I don't agree there is much unfriendlyness to newbie generally here. Compared to other forums I think it's actually quite civilized and friendly. And asking people to search and ask proper questions is just basic forum etiquette. The problem as I see it is that newbies wll read about things like running Debian or cloning to SD without realizing that those things are actually advanced hacks.
Last edited by iamthewalrus; 2008-08-05 at 23:26.
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| newbies, tablet scene |
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I would think, the same members here, who have the answers, will answer the questions there and in the same manner.
Not really seeing a change unless you are telling members they have to provide answers in a certain way on the new site or do not help.
Maybe a pessimistic way of seeing things but I happen to se it as being realistic.
I am not a newbie to forums and tech in any way and this is the way things go.
Trying to reinvent the wheel when you are using the same information and resources just gets you another wheel.
In the end, it may be helpful but is it necessary?
David