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Poll: How much would you be willing to pay for a Neo900 (complete device) with TI DM3730 1GHz/512M-RAM/1GB
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How much would you be willing to pay for a Neo900 (complete device) with TI DM3730 1GHz/512M-RAM/1GB

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#2921
Originally Posted by Venemo View Post
Actually, this is way too overhyped.
AFAIK the "backdoor" in those Intel processors is usually disabled by most laptop manufacturers on most commercial laptops.
Well, I kinda agree. As i said, even an old Thinkpad isnt perfect.

But then its absolutely uncertain, if the laptop manufacturers can deactivate it completely.
And what if there are more backdoors? After Ed. Snow. you should know that everything theoretically possibe to break ones privacy, will get used or is getting used.
And Intel, being an american company, has to grant the gov access to their backdoors, by law.

I probably sound very paranoid right now. And you wouldn't be in the wrong of you'd tell me to throw away all of my electronic devices and never use the Internet again, because the stuff i wrote here, the mindset it projects, isn't compatible with them and the internet...But well, nowadays you cant give up all this stuff.
And even of you cant trust your hw, at least, you can try your best to choose the most trustworthy hw and sw.

Says me, a person who owns several highly untrustworthy devices.

I kinda feel, that I moved away from the original topic.
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1x Jolla - collecting dust, after getting repaired 4 times under warranty..
iPhone SE - lost

iPhone 7 - 128GB
iPad Air - 32gb
Surface Pro 4 M3 - Win10 is buggy...

Last edited by NX500; 2017-07-27 at 15:54.
 

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#2922
I've yet to personally find a device that connects to any other system such as a network or the Internet to prove itself worthy of being deemed "private".
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#2923
Originally Posted by ScumCoder View Post
Just my 5 cents.

The only thing that I want from the Neo900 team is to actually finish this project. The time it takes is irrelevant, because my requirements to the smartphone hardware are non-existent. I'm still content with my 10-years-old N95, and in some ways it is still a superior experience compared to modern iPhoid smartphones.

The only thing that will really make me mad would be if the project just fails with no outcome whatsoever. I was observing the development of GTA04A5 by Nikolaus Schaller, and was horribly depressed when it failed because of the soldering problem, despite not being financially involved. Making hardware is much more difficult - and important - than making software. You don't publish patches to your hardware, or "clone" someone's hardware repository onto your table, or check if a fix worked by simple recompilation.

Also, I (unlike a lot of other people here) am interested in Neo900 project for its security first and foremost. There simply is no such thing as "paranoia" when it comes to the safety of personal data. Every byte of closed-source executable code is a breeding ground for backdoors and spyware.

So, I am ready to wait as long as necessary. The only thing I ask is to please not give up. Two failed open hardware projects in a row will be too much.
Same. Not financially involved in GTA04A5, but sad that it seems to be frozen/failed. Maybe, it will be resurrected after Pyra and Neo900 are finished; no idea what the problem with GTA04A5 exactly was?

Take as long as you need, just don't give up. Nokia N900 works, and there is no reason to expect it will change.

Originally Posted by endsormeans View Post
I haven't kept track of the maemo-devaun project ...if that is the purpose of it ..then I am glad it is being undertaken .
It is a sane precautionary measure..
Great. Maemo-devuan, fptf... They are about upgrading Maemo to current Linux kernel and such.

Originally Posted by endsormeans View Post
In fact stupid me ..I forgot to mention along with ubuntu and debian..distros ...
there is an os that could make things much easier for such work...
Bedrock OS is meant to run stuff from any distro ..together ..compatibly ..
that strikes me as being far more flexible and yielding to maemo os needs..
From any distro? Like, regardless of package format? Debian+Fedora and such? It would be a nice (and difficult-ish) trick, though not exactly relevant to Maemo imho.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedrock_(framework)

Originally Posted by endsormeans View Post
But since 2013 ....
there is the pocket chip and the flavors of Pi that are doing remarkable things ...for under $50. ....and they aren't far away now from proper telephony....it is simply a small step away for them.
Linux is running on them...
Sure it may have proprietary bits..
But still.
at this point in the timeline of what is available ...
It looks very attractive...
Originally Posted by xman View Post
I like the pyra but it's too game focus and a few other that seems kinda of close .. but always seem to have a deal breaker for me.

Though eventually we may be able to run Maemo on a pocket chip device
x
I have a pocketchip somewhere around here. First impressions: too bulky to be carried in a pocket (well, it sort of fits into pocket of my coat...), strange keyboard (needs a keymat?), not a ready-to-use device (want to add this and that if it fits inside the enclosure; like, stereo speakers?).

Pre-ordered dragonbox pyra, too. But it's more like replacement of laptop for travelling, not a replacement for phone.

Originally Posted by ravelo View Post
Nice to see that discussion about Neo900 is starting again.

I would actually now be interested, which features of this phone might be most interesting or most important for buyers.

Is it...
... usage of linux package management on your phone (apt-get)?
... privacy?
... security?
... choice between multiple OSes?
... default no Android?
... Maemo?
... root access out of the box?
... hacking and tinkering experience?
... not boring as the usual android phones?
... using standard linux apps?
... ability to run current linux kernel for long time?
... ability to run native Linux Apps and Android apps at the same phone?
... standard linux desktop like experience?
... updated N900 with more than enough RAM compared to almost no free RAM on N900?
...

I hope you share your ideas on this topic.
Linux? Yes. Maemo? Yes, though I have a few tiny ideas on what could be changed in the desktop environment. Privacy and security? Yes. Default no Android? Yes, though I would like to get apkenv to work. Choice between multiple OSes? Yes, though I haven't ever tried to boot into anything other than Maemo. Root access out of the box? Yes. Tinkering? Yes. Standard Linux apps? Takes work, but nice, yes. Ability to run current linux kernel for long time? Would be nice to see new Linux kernel, but Maemo works even as it is.

Updated N900 with more than enough RAM compared to almost no free RAM on N900? Yes, but I worry about rootfs more, though RAM (aka speed) is definitely relevant.

Mostly... I don't see much phones around with qwerty keyboard, resistive touchscreen, slider, with stylus. Even if it needs screen protector to defend screen from stylus. Oh, and RGB notification LED, keyboard backlight, stereo speakers, good camera... Feel free to mention which devices are similar.

[Edit]
Originally Posted by badpixel View Post
And n9 OLED screen is superior to n900/n950 TFT.
I recently discovered Samsung Wave device, with characteristics similar to Nokia N900 (800x480 display) but different (no keyboard, no FM transmitter). Wondering if Neo900 board would fit inside. If the different screen (SuperAMOLED) can be attached to Neo900 board (guess it's question of flex connectors). In short, wondering if Neo900-SamsungWave Frankenstein is feasible (and usable). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Wave_S8500 Comparing dimensions: 118 x 56 mm vs 110.9 x 59.8 mm of Nokia N900. Guess the frame will not quite fit, 4mm difference? Still, there remains the question of whether a different LCD (like SuperAMOLED mentioned above) would fit into Neo900 (connectors compatibility, driver, power drawn and such).

Also, there is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droid_4 . Different display resolution, but it has slider keyboard.
[/Edit]

Thank you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Last edited by Wikiwide; 2017-07-28 at 03:38.
 

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#2924
I think that perhaps I am not being fully understood in what I have been suggesting for the necessary survival of maemo itself.

I am not suggesting maemo os to be ported to yet another handheld device or handheld device line that will ultimately hit the wall of obsolescence.
That really defeats the time and effort put in...especially by the law of diminishing returns from losing the people every passing year who are needed to effect such porting .

Opening up maemo is a grand project also...
But still...
I see the inevitable on the horizon.

Likewise ...when I mentioned getting maemo onto 86_64
32 or 64 bit...as a proper distro ...
Even the suggestion of simply taking bloody debian and making (or tweaking) a de and wm to give debian the appearance of maemo....

The first response was linear...and essentially it was..
"what good would 86_64 be with intel and only a couple of intel smartphones...?"

I think getting off the road...getting out of the one way lane to extinction is the answer.
we have been thinking as a community so narrowly for so long that it now jeopardizes maemo's continued existence...

I rather am speaking of making maemo a proper distro .
Period.
End of statement.
Get off the roller coaster to handheld oblivion.
Full stop.

Once a proper linux distribution ....
A- we aren't stuck on a one way lane to oblivion with a specific device or specific device line...like we are and have been now with the nxx0 line.

B- basing it on either debian or ubuntu we then have piles of current and maintained software of either debian or ubuntu at our disposal

C- we should also (as a consequence of "B" )...be able to more easily keep the distro updated and maintained.

D- We should also (as a consequence of "B" ) find ourselves with a larger pool of endusers and interested developers...who have no problem installing maemo onto their pc's ...(instead of the current situation where many couldn't be bothered with the hassle or ...the ever increasing reason...needing to find antiquated devices ..second hand ...if they are lucky ..)

E- Out of the handheld loop ...being an official distro provides us with breathing room...time to find compatible handheld devices...
We can hold out for however long is necessary...


IF we do nothing ..
or
IF we sit and wait for the right device...
or
IF we do our finest to warp maemo to fit a different handheld ...
or
IF maemo currently ...as a community....which quite obviously ...barely has the manpower to effect this leap to the next device ..and even manages to succeed ...and makes it...

if we run along this tangent and succeed ...
with any of these mentioned "IFs" ....

we are screwed .
the next device will be the last for maemo.
Full stop.

We won't have the numbers or the manpower to make it any further after that...
We won't have the numbers to maintain ...
We won't have the numbers to develop ...
Not with our numbers now and the projected losses after migration...

Some may balk at the idea of maemo on pc , laptop or laptop convertible ...
But after farting around with earlier work of moises ...
farting around with earlier work with maemo4 ...
and farting around even with VNC-ing maemo and my convertible m780...
(all of which just feels like a larger more readable screened version which performs quite well with stylus and finger ...surprisingly...)

Many may think different about what the end usage may feel like if they gave it a go...

Of course you couldn't put it in your pocket...
Of course you can't just give someone a call...

I consider this inconvenience for the continued survival of the os temporary.... until proper handhelds make themselves available to port back to. ...
And EVEN then...
JUST in case...we run into the same issue again..
At least we avoid out-and-out extinction and continue on.

If folks can't bend ..
If factors like this are "make-it-or-break-it " ...for the majority...
Then flat out... maemo is going to perish..
__________________
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Owner of : 1-n770 (in retirement),
3-n800's,
3-n810's,
5-n900's
-3 flawless
-1 loose usb (i don't muck with it & stress it , considering selling it, another can fix the loose usb)
-1 no telephony (perfect for permanent set-up as mini-pc with one of my monitors)
half a neo900 pre- "bought"....due for production any day now.


PIMP MY N8X0
Everything you need tightly explained in layman's terms ..in an easy to understand format.. and a video walkthrough to boot.
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94294
THE LOST GRONMAYER CATALOGS
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...ight=gronmayer
N8X0 VIDEO ENCODING THE EASY WAY
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...ght=mediacoder
242gb ON N800
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90634

THE PAIN-FREE MAEMO DEVELOPMENT LIVE DISTRO-ISO FOR THE NOOB TO THE PRO
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=95567

AFFORDABLE MASS PRODUCTION FOR MAEMO PARTS
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93325

Last edited by endsormeans; 2017-07-28 at 12:56.
 

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#2925
Originally Posted by endsormeans View Post
I think that perhaps I am not being fully understood in what I have been suggesting for the necessary survival of maemo itself
I'm pretty sure you were fully understood. No offense, but from my personal perspective you are repeating one and the same post for the third time.
 

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#2926
Yes I felt I had to try for clarity.

Ah...then some did actually get what I was trying to say...
too bad no one who actually got it piped up and said anything to denote that it was understood...other than biketool who actually did say something...
all others referenced to still more handheld solution attempts...
and instead have what I was trying to get across...
obfuscated instead..
by responding posts still thinking the same old one lane option that we are still ...years later ...heading to os extinction with.

I think there is the answer then.

I can clean up those said repetitive posts.
__________________
Lurker since 2007, Member since 2013, Certifiable since 1972
Owner of : 1-n770 (in retirement),
3-n800's,
3-n810's,
5-n900's
-3 flawless
-1 loose usb (i don't muck with it & stress it , considering selling it, another can fix the loose usb)
-1 no telephony (perfect for permanent set-up as mini-pc with one of my monitors)
half a neo900 pre- "bought"....due for production any day now.


PIMP MY N8X0
Everything you need tightly explained in layman's terms ..in an easy to understand format.. and a video walkthrough to boot.
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94294
THE LOST GRONMAYER CATALOGS
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...ight=gronmayer
N8X0 VIDEO ENCODING THE EASY WAY
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...ght=mediacoder
242gb ON N800
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90634

THE PAIN-FREE MAEMO DEVELOPMENT LIVE DISTRO-ISO FOR THE NOOB TO THE PRO
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=95567

AFFORDABLE MASS PRODUCTION FOR MAEMO PARTS
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93325

Last edited by endsormeans; 2017-07-28 at 20:22.
 

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#2927
Originally Posted by endsormeans View Post
I am not suggesting maemo os to be ported to yet another handheld device or handheld device line that will ultimately hit the wall of obsolescence.

Opening up maemo is a grand project also...
But still...
I see the inevitable on the horizon.

Likewise ...when I mentioned getting maemo onto 86_64
32 or 64 bit...as a proper distro ...

The first response was linear...and essentially it was..
"what good would 86_64 be with intel and only a couple of intel smartphones...?"

we have been thinking as a community so narrowly for so long that it now jeopardizes maemo's continued existence...

I rather am speaking of making maemo a proper distro . Get off the roller coaster to handheld oblivion.

Once a proper linux distribution ....
A- we aren't stuck on a one way lane to oblivion with a specific device or specific device line...like we are and have been now with the nxx0 line.

B- basing it on either debian or ubuntu we then have piles of current and maintained software of either debian or ubuntu at our disposal

C- we should also (as a consequence of "B" )...be able to more easily keep the distro updated and maintained.

D- We should also (as a consequence of "B" ) find ourselves with a larger pool of endusers and interested developers...who have no problem installing maemo onto their pc's ...(instead of the current situation where many couldn't be bothered with the hassle or ...the ever increasing reason...needing to find antiquated devices ..second hand ...if they are lucky ..)

E- Out of the handheld loop ...being an official distro provides us with breathing room...time to find compatible handheld devices...
We can hold out for however long is necessary...

IF we do nothing ..
or
IF we sit and wait for the right device...
or
IF we do our finest to warp maemo to fit a different handheld ...
or
IF maemo currently ...as a community....which quite obviously ...barely has the manpower to effect this leap to the next device ..and even manages to succeed ...and makes it...

if we run along this tangent and succeed ...
with any of these mentioned "IFs" ....

we are screwed .
the next device will be the last for maemo.
Full stop.

We won't have the numbers or the manpower to make it any further after that...

Some may balk at the idea of maemo on pc , laptop or laptop convertible ...
But after farting around with earlier work of moises ...
farting around with earlier work with maemo4 ...
and farting around even with VNC-ing maemo and my convertible m780...
(all of which just feels like a larger more readable screened version which performs quite well with stylus and finger ...surprisingly...)

Many may think different about what the end usage may feel like if they gave it a go...

Of course you couldn't put it in your pocket...
Of course you can't just give someone a call...

I consider this inconvenience for the continued survival of the os temporary.... until proper handhelds make themselves available to port back to. ...
At least we avoid out-and-out extinction and continue on.
Devuan, not debian (if only because systemd is too bloated for embedded devices). FPTF is already doing it; feel free to look into it, and see if you can run it on one of your computers. And yes, I see your point: too many people use handhelds (like iPhone or something) which are difficult to port to (if only because of variety of these handhelds; very fragmented market), sometimes because of manufacturer building-in locked boot-loader or something.

In regards to making Maemo more mainstream and less restricted to one-or-so handheld only... Raspberry Pi could be an interesting porting target, still ARM (like N900, Neo900 and others), but known to a very wide community.

[Edit]
If you want a larger, more user-friendly, less-tinkering-required device... DragonBox Pyra is a good device, too, ARM and keyboard and display and touchscreen. Just, a tad too large for being a mobile phone.
[/Edit]

Thank you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Per aspera ad astra...
 

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