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2008-03-27
, 17:13
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Posts: 108 |
Thanked: 6 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ France
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#42
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I usually stick to the Application Manager to check for new / updated software, and it is doing a not so bad job. My two cents as a "basic" user:
- If a software requires "red pill" mode to install it should appear in the Application Manager only in "red pill" mode.
- "All" is my default choice due to badly used categories (why not hard code a list of category names with associated ID that a developer will select from, default being "Various")
- I really miss an indication of what are the new/updated softwares after an update.
Lot of very interesting comments in this thread.
- If a software requires "red pill" mode to install it should appear in the Application Manager only in "red pill" mode.
- "All" is my default choice due to badly used categories (why not hard code a list of category names with associated ID that a developer will select from, default being "Various")
- I really miss an indication of what are the new/updated softwares after an update.
Lot of very interesting comments in this thread.
__________________
N800
"Bois la Mondeuse, pète la dameuse. Qui bois la gnôle, casse la bagnole"
N800
"Bois la Mondeuse, pète la dameuse. Qui bois la gnôle, casse la bagnole"
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2008-03-27
, 17:15
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Posts: 259 |
Thanked: 72 times |
Joined on Dec 2007
@ Halifax, NS
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#43
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Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
Nope, It didn't work for me, when I reflashed recently. It failed mysteriously because of missing libraries. Erminig isn't even available through Application manager's list. And relies on python25. At least that one told me what was missing!
You recall incorrectly. I know for certain GPE can be installed fine without Red Pill and erminig shouldn't need it either (though I haven't bothered to test this directly myself).
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
Ok, we can settle on this. Categorize everything correctly and pry open extras and we won't have as many issues. Still issues, but not as many critical ones.
Theoretical nothing. Poor packaging practices and a difficult-to-get-into Extras are the root of the problem. As Jaffa mentioned above, everything else is superfluous.
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2008-03-27
, 17:20
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#44
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Originally Posted by rheve
Besides the fact that this is really something that's catchable for the Application manager, Red Pill's "logic" is stupidly simple (only display things in User/).
- If a software requires "red pill" mode to install it should appear in the Application Manager only in "red pill" mode.
Originally Posted by rheve
The Application manager is just a front-end, it has nothing to do with the organization of the repositories.
- "All" is my default choice due to badly used categories (why not hard code a list of category names with associated ID that a developer will select from, default being "Various")
Again, both of these issues are packager issues, not Application manager issues.
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2008-03-27
, 17:54
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Posts: 3,841 |
Thanked: 1,079 times |
Joined on Nov 2006
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#45
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I mentioned this wish in another thread already, but the single most important thing I miss in the application manager is a button for New Packages.
It should be just the the current one for new upgrades, but it should instead show new packages that have become available since the previous time you hit the 'refresh' option.
For those using Debian on the desktop, there's a command line tool 'wajig' which is essentially a wrap-all command covering apt-get, apt-cache, dpkg etc., and it has two important commands: 'new-upgrades' and 'new'. The command line sequence is then typically:
wajig update
wajig new-upgrades
wajig new
(and then you decide whether to upgrade, or to wajig install (or apt-get install) any of the new stuff)
The equivalent for application manager would be:
refresh
check for upgrades
(missing) check for new packages
As it is now, if you want to see if there's anything newly available since the last time you updated you'll have to wade through that (bigger and bigger) list of available applications, and try to spot the new package(s). Not nice.
It should be just the the current one for new upgrades, but it should instead show new packages that have become available since the previous time you hit the 'refresh' option.
For those using Debian on the desktop, there's a command line tool 'wajig' which is essentially a wrap-all command covering apt-get, apt-cache, dpkg etc., and it has two important commands: 'new-upgrades' and 'new'. The command line sequence is then typically:
wajig update
wajig new-upgrades
wajig new
(and then you decide whether to upgrade, or to wajig install (or apt-get install) any of the new stuff)
The equivalent for application manager would be:
refresh
check for upgrades
(missing) check for new packages
As it is now, if you want to see if there's anything newly available since the last time you updated you'll have to wade through that (bigger and bigger) list of available applications, and try to spot the new package(s). Not nice.
__________________
N800/OS2007|N900/Maemo5
-- Metalayer-crawler delenda est.
-- Current state: Fed up with everything MeeGo.
N800/OS2007|N900/Maemo5
-- Metalayer-crawler delenda est.
-- Current state: Fed up with everything MeeGo.
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2008-03-27
, 21:46
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Posts: 1,540 |
Thanked: 1,045 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
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#46
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I totally agree with GeneralAntilles' points about bad categorisation of packages being a fundamental problem that should be tackled first. At the moment I prefer using the maemo.org downloads page for finding applications because the only practical way to browse the App Manager is by selecting All.
However, I think Reggie's right that we need some kind of friendly-looking GUI front end for the App Manager to let newbies and casual users know that there are some darn useful and easy-to-use apps and games available for their tablet. It would be nice if every app could have its own screenshot and user review system like maemo.org/downloads, and a nice big green install link too. That green arrow is a very useful visual signal.
And echoing what TA-t3 says above, there should be sections for new apps, highly-rated apps (if a user-review system is implemented) and most-downloaded apps just like maemo.org/downloads, but built into the App Manager. These give really good starting points for people who just want to see what's out there.
Last edited by krisse; 2008-03-27 at 21:56.
However, I think Reggie's right that we need some kind of friendly-looking GUI front end for the App Manager to let newbies and casual users know that there are some darn useful and easy-to-use apps and games available for their tablet. It would be nice if every app could have its own screenshot and user review system like maemo.org/downloads, and a nice big green install link too. That green arrow is a very useful visual signal.
And echoing what TA-t3 says above, there should be sections for new apps, highly-rated apps (if a user-review system is implemented) and most-downloaded apps just like maemo.org/downloads, but built into the App Manager. These give really good starting points for people who just want to see what's out there.
Last edited by krisse; 2008-03-27 at 21:56.
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2008-03-27
, 22:29
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Posts: 108 |
Thanked: 6 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ France
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#47
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Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
I would tend to disagree. If packages contain a category ID (verssus name) it would then be responsability of the AM to properly sort them. Same way if packages contain a "red pill" boolean.
The Application manager is just a front-end, it has nothing to do with the organization of the repositories.
Again, both of these issues are packager issues, not Application manager issues.
And it would be easy also to highlight new / updated packages compared to previous list.
__________________
N800
"Bois la Mondeuse, pète la dameuse. Qui bois la gnôle, casse la bagnole"
N800
"Bois la Mondeuse, pète la dameuse. Qui bois la gnôle, casse la bagnole"
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2008-03-27
, 23:32
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#48
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Originally Posted by rheve
You obviously don't know much about the Debian packaging system then.
I would tend to disagree.
Originally Posted by rheve
Yes, breaking the whole packaging system because packagers can't agree on some categorization guidelines is a fantastic idea.
If packages contain a category ID (verssus name) it would then be responsability of the AM to properly sort them.
Changing from a bunch of letters to a bunch of numbers accomplishes exactly nothing and breaks the whole system in the process—it's not the GUI package manager's job to categorize and sort packages, it's the package maintainer's.
Originally Posted by rheve
Uh, what? The packagers don't decide if something needs red pill to be installed, there are a lot more variables involved in whether something needs to be sledgehammered into place than you seem to think.
Same way if packages contain a "red pill" boolean.
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2008-03-27
, 23:39
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Posts: 4,930 |
Thanked: 2,272 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
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#49
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Originally Posted by rheve
Breaking upstream compatibility and gaining nothing useful is not the way forward.
I would tend to disagree. If packages contain a category ID (verssus name) it would then be responsability of the AM to properly sort them. Same way if packages contain a "red pill" boolean.
And it would be easy also to highlight new / updated packages compared to previous list.
And how in (or out of) the world does this make highlighting packages according to any batch of independent criteria easier?!?!
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2008-03-28
, 00:02
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Posts: 880 |
Thanked: 264 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Cambridge, UK
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#50
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I'm a mostly happy user of Suse; the latest 10.3 has a specific function to allow you to add and remove "community" repositories, which include things like ATI's drivers, codecs, etc.
Seems to me this is ideal, provide the tablet with the repos already in, which need a good description of what they contain *and* *why*, and allow the user to easily enable them!
the other problem is, as Gen. Ant. says, poor discilipline amongst packagers - the "official" repos should NOT accept packages/projects unless they meet a certain standard - or at least segregate such ones into a different repos so people can ignore the junk!
--edit--
opensuse also offers a build service, which gives people the chance to request something to be added. I think Angstrom devs will also attempt to take people's private build recipes and fix/improve and add to official distro.
one thing I like about freebsd (being a fan of pfsense) is the coherence of the freebsd "product".
Last edited by speculatrix; 2008-03-28 at 00:04.
Seems to me this is ideal, provide the tablet with the repos already in, which need a good description of what they contain *and* *why*, and allow the user to easily enable them!
the other problem is, as Gen. Ant. says, poor discilipline amongst packagers - the "official" repos should NOT accept packages/projects unless they meet a certain standard - or at least segregate such ones into a different repos so people can ignore the junk!
--edit--
opensuse also offers a build service, which gives people the chance to request something to be added. I think Angstrom devs will also attempt to take people's private build recipes and fix/improve and add to official distro.
one thing I like about freebsd (being a fan of pfsense) is the coherence of the freebsd "product".
Last edited by speculatrix; 2008-03-28 at 00:04.
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