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| The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to qgil For This Useful Post: | ||
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2009-04-13
, 21:32
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#12
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Originally Posted by SD69
A question for you. Why so much hostility to people you perceive as "outsiders" when, in fact, they're really core contributors to this forum who have been around for many, many years?
Who are you asking? people from maemo.org? or the people on this forum? The people on this forum have countless times asked for more consideration to casual users, and here you propose to delete the "Newbie" forum as well as "Tablet 101"?? Don't you maemo guys have hundreds of other things to do? Why so much attention to changing the forum??
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Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
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2009-04-13
, 21:33
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Posts: 698 |
Thanked: 129 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ CA
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#13
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Ok, I'm a little late to the party --- only because I just saw this thread ---, but I think a "newbie" forum is needed. Heck, even I would still use it to ask "newbie" questions safely without being flamed. Remember that newbies are more likely to ask first, read later. You take away that place for them to ask, then they are still likely to ask before reading the sticky. Moving it all into a sticky pretty much sends the message of, "We're not newbies here and newbies aren't welcome; so, read up on this sticky so you become one of us --- which is someone who is not a newbie." It's like expecting a baby to be an adult by handing them a book and saying, "Here, read this first before asking me anything." Babies instead need their crib to grow in first. 
That's just my 2 cents.
Last edited by hordeman; 2009-04-13 at 21:37.
That's just my 2 cents.
Last edited by hordeman; 2009-04-13 at 21:37.
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2009-04-13
, 21:39
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Posts: 2,869 |
Thanked: 1,784 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Po' Bo'. PA
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#14
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Wow! I Must have the worst luck... yesterday on my holiday I put together a pretty complex post in hopes of showing to some a strength of the NIT's that is not discussed much. The thing is, after all the recent changes I wasn't sure where to post so I read the sticky that was provided.
In it it said something to the effect that to think of the newbie forum as a "gateway" and that threads posted there will more than likely be moved later.
I posted my thread in the "newbie" forum because of this. Now I no longer see any reference in this sticky to the forum, find that the new thread about HTML and custom browser pages has been moved to the "developer" forum , and the "newbie" forum will no longer be used.
When do you expect most of this reorganization to be complete...
Last edited by YoDude; 2009-04-13 at 21:42.
In it it said something to the effect that to think of the newbie forum as a "gateway" and that threads posted there will more than likely be moved later.
I posted my thread in the "newbie" forum because of this. Now I no longer see any reference in this sticky to the forum, find that the new thread about HTML and custom browser pages has been moved to the "developer" forum , and the "newbie" forum will no longer be used.
When do you expect most of this reorganization to be complete...
Last edited by YoDude; 2009-04-13 at 21:42.
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2009-04-13
, 21:53
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Posts: 2,869 |
Thanked: 1,784 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Po' Bo'. PA
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#15
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Originally Posted by hordeman
Pretty good 2 dude. It's another way to look at it.
Ok, I'm a little late to the party --- only because I just saw this thread ---, but I think a "newbie" forum is needed. Heck, even I would still use it to ask "newbie" questions safely without being flamed. Remember that newbies are more likely to ask first, read later. You take away that place for them to ask, then they are still likely to ask before reading the sticky. Moving it all into a sticky pretty much sends the message of, "We're not newbies here and newbies aren't welcome; so, read up on this sticky so you become one of us --- which is someone who is not a newbie." It's like expecting a baby to be an adult by handing them a book and saying, "Here, read this first before asking me anything." Babies instead need their crib to grow in first.
From what I have seen here is that members have gone out of there way in the past to be hospitable and welcoming to new members. Some are downright protective...all this is a good thing IMHO.
What I think I'm reading from you is that some new members may feel more comfortable in an area where they can get there feet wet first and that the term "Newbie" to some is not necessarily a bad thing.
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2009-04-13
, 22:26
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Posts: 698 |
Thanked: 129 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ CA
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#16
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Originally Posted by YoDude
Yes, that's exactly what I'm getting at.
Pretty good 2 dude. It's another way to look at it.
From what I have seen here is that members have gone out of there way in the past to be hospitable and welcoming to new members. Some are downright protective...all this is a good thing IMHO.
What I think I'm reading from you is that some new members may feel more comfortable in an area where they can get there feet wet first and that the term "Newbie" to some is not necessarily a bad thing.
Totally understand that a lot of us are welcoming of newbies --- which is not the norm on a lot of boards. So, because newbies may not know this, they will tend to gravitate to the "newbie" section where they feel safe asking questions without fear of getting flamed.
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2009-04-13
, 22:37
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#17
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Originally Posted by hordeman
So, I generally see two problems with the Newbie forum. The first, since it's so broad and non-specific, it tends to end up as a catch-all forum that mostly leads to increased moderatoration overhead. The second, is that it tends to lead to some empty threads which clutter up google searches and make it harder for people to find the information they need (the Ubuntu forums are a good example of this).
So, because newbies may not know this, they will tend to gravitate to the "newbie" section where they feel safe asking questions without fear of getting flamed.
The idea of having a newbie forum where stupid questions can be asked without getting flamed may be somewhat successful in practice, but it implies that it's OK to flame people elsewhere in the forums (which is wrong) and that newbies are guaranteed to be flamed if they don't post the Newbie forum (which is also wrong).
If entirely removing the Newbie isn't an acceptable option, what about compromising by moving it to a stickied thread in General? It solves the google clutter issue fairly effectively, reduces its catch-all nature a bit, and still provides a place for newbies to feel comfortable. It also makes it easier both for people interested in involving themselves in those help sections and for people who want to avoid them.
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Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
| The Following User Says Thank You to GeneralAntilles For This Useful Post: | ||
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2009-04-13
, 23:31
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Posts: 480 |
Thanked: 378 times |
Joined on Apr 2008
@ Chicago-ish
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#18
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First of all, qgil is right. I'm not a maemo.org guy, or ITt guy... just a guy 
I see that the forum's making a lot of changes, so I just like to throw my two cents in here and there.
The problem with the Newbie forum, as I see it, is, as GeneralAntilles said, that it's WAY too vague. However, I have a different reason for having this problem with it. This leads to posts that could contain some useful information, but get lost, locked away forever in the "Newbie" forum. It's just too much of an "anything goes" forum, and that makes it more difficult for people to get into the forum, and get involved.
I've already come up with my own solution: change it to pre-purchase/pre-device. This keeps a place open for questions that may seem silly to those who already have a tablet, and opens up a new place for people wondering "Will a tablet do what I need it to?" Hopefully, this would end up being a useful forum, and not just a "OMG N8X0 IS BETTAH THAN TEH IPOD TOUCH!!!11!!one!!!", but I have no doubt that those threads would show up.
GeneralAntilles: I'm not sure if I'm reading your suggestion right. You're suggesting to make a Newbie thread in the general section, where all Newbie questions should go? The problem with this, as I understand it, is this: people often get confused on the meaning of "Newbie" (this is a major problem in the current Newbie forum, developer/advanced topics also show up there). Having advanced topics in this thread would create more moderator overhead, and just make things more confusing.
I'm not saying I have the best solution. I think there are problems with all solutions, and you end up just picking the one with the best side-effects, and least number of downsides. Perhaps changing the name of the forum to "Beginner" would help, even. I still just think that the term "Newbie" has a negative connotation, and it's hard to get away from using for some people. Instead of having a place where it's OK to ask simple questions and not get flamed, the whole forum should be this way.
I see that the forum's making a lot of changes, so I just like to throw my two cents in here and there.The problem with the Newbie forum, as I see it, is, as GeneralAntilles said, that it's WAY too vague. However, I have a different reason for having this problem with it. This leads to posts that could contain some useful information, but get lost, locked away forever in the "Newbie" forum. It's just too much of an "anything goes" forum, and that makes it more difficult for people to get into the forum, and get involved.
I've already come up with my own solution: change it to pre-purchase/pre-device. This keeps a place open for questions that may seem silly to those who already have a tablet, and opens up a new place for people wondering "Will a tablet do what I need it to?" Hopefully, this would end up being a useful forum, and not just a "OMG N8X0 IS BETTAH THAN TEH IPOD TOUCH!!!11!!one!!!", but I have no doubt that those threads would show up.
GeneralAntilles: I'm not sure if I'm reading your suggestion right. You're suggesting to make a Newbie thread in the general section, where all Newbie questions should go? The problem with this, as I understand it, is this: people often get confused on the meaning of "Newbie" (this is a major problem in the current Newbie forum, developer/advanced topics also show up there). Having advanced topics in this thread would create more moderator overhead, and just make things more confusing.
I'm not saying I have the best solution. I think there are problems with all solutions, and you end up just picking the one with the best side-effects, and least number of downsides. Perhaps changing the name of the forum to "Beginner" would help, even. I still just think that the term "Newbie" has a negative connotation, and it's hard to get away from using for some people. Instead of having a place where it's OK to ask simple questions and not get flamed, the whole forum should be this way.
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Disclaimer: If a program I wrote doesn't work/breaks your tablet... It's not my fault
mcedit | Utility Calculators (WIP) | PyRDesktop
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Disclaimer: If a program I wrote doesn't work/breaks your tablet... It's not my fault
mcedit | Utility Calculators (WIP) | PyRDesktop
My Blog | Twitter
| The Following User Says Thank You to TrueJournals For This Useful Post: | ||
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2009-04-14
, 00:13
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Posts: 1,513 |
Thanked: 2,248 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ US
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#19
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Originally Posted by qgil
There you go again. You are clearly a maemo guy (not that there's anything wrong with that btw), but you try to pass it off as if it's TrueJournals (who I wasn't even referring to) and as if this thread is the only thing you are aware of regarding the newbie forum. There are other discussions regarding the newbie forum in which you participated, but you don't acknowledge those in your post. It's reminiscent of the poll where the no change option was forgotten, and the mistake wasn't corrected even when it was promptly pointed out.
I'm asking people of this forum, of course. If you read TrueJournals initial post (and he is not a 'maemo guy' in the sense you put it for what I know) and my comment #2 you will see that the reason to propose the deprecation of the Newbie forum is precisely "more consideration to casual users".
Why so much attention to changing the forum? I'm no less 'ITt guy' than you (specially on a bank holiday at night), I spend a lot of time following and taking part in this forum and I just try to help. Some core contributors said Thanks in the initial posts and before you nobody seemed to oppose frontally to the proposal.
Reggie has the last word, as usual.
It's become apparent that there is recent attention to changing the forum right before it moves to maemo.org. You have been posting increasingly about the forums and people do respond to those posts. Of course you are helping - it's the "just" part that I find curious.
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2009-04-14
, 00:22
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#20
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Originally Posted by SD69
You can't edit polls after they've been created. Why do you see conspiracy everywhere?
It's reminiscent of the poll where the no change option was forgotten, and the mistake wasn't corrected even when it was promptly pointed out.
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Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
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Why so much attention to changing the forum? I'm no less 'ITt guy' than you (specially on a bank holiday at night), I spend a lot of time following and taking part in this forum and I just try to help. Some core contributors said Thanks in the initial posts and before you nobody seemed to oppose frontally to the proposal.
Reggie has the last word, as usual.