Thank you for expressing your view, Philippe. Please ignore those trolls (fk_lx and his suspected multiple accounts) and bare in mind that there are many people that appreciate your work.

It never fails to amaze me how fast are people able to take something for granted. Out of all products of which I have owned (be it Nokia, HP, Lenovo), Jolla communicates the most. No, it isn't common at all, having employees come to forums to communicate and express their views or having weekly meetings with the community.

Yet some people tend to think that Jolla has some evil plan and its main part is not telling people everything.

It unfortunately happens quite often to open source projects that some people become so excited and engaged (fk_lx travelling around Europe and giving presentations about Jolla) that then when something does not go exactly according how it should be in their opinion, they put the same energy into destroying everything around them. These problems usually come when new projects are created. Not only SailfishOS, but also Ubuntu in its early days and Manjaro lately (the vandalism of AUR in Manjaro's case is surprisingly similar to the PiratePad vandalism in Jolla's case).

This problem has been around open source projects in the past and it will be here in the future, but people should remember one thing - if Jolla fails, there will be no other Linux+Wayland+Btrfs smartphone in any near future (if ever). If you have been disappointed by Jolla, move on to Android or whatever (like fk_lx did) and stop wasting your energy on throwing dirt all around.


I know that what I have just done is feeding the troll; I may be too optimistic, but I believe some people can move on and transform their hate into something creative, somewhere else.

Dear lord, this again?

A lot of people appreciate Jolla's work and want to see them succeed. I'm not saying fk_lx is in that camp anymore, but please don't group us all together.

I understand fk_lx is Polish? For example I'm not. Oonhan suomalainen, kuten Kari Tapio lauloi ennen kuin siirtyi Tapiolan kirkon kautta kevyempiin multiin. Ajoi varmaan Kari Tapiokin siitä NRC:n, nykyisen Jollan ja Supercellin konttorin ohitse usein Stokkan parkkiin ja siitä Kalleen salmarille. Ehkä sitten kerran liian usein.

You just compared Jolla to three large corporations. Compare them to other agile start-ups and you can see they are not very open at all. Some start-ups have brutally honest and open comms. I agree Jolla are present in a lot of social media, but when the topic is uncomfortable, they tend to shut down - they limit their participation to PR and certain technical FOSS processes. Some of us think they would do well for themselves to be more transparent. And the latest with kicking people out from various channels and cursing etc. seems awfully unwise and, well, not very unlike.

That's such a fallacy, though. Who here has suggested or thinks Jolla has an evil plan. Aside from fk_lx who of course has a more personal complaint, understand that some of us think Jolla's communications plan could be a whole lot better. I happen to think more brutal honesty over the past few years would have gained Jolla more early adopter support and enthusiasm than the marketing platitudes we so often now get instead.

I sense that these decisions are now creeping up on Jolla. Avoiding those tough topics for long enough and now they are piling up in community commentary all over the world. I find that far more dangerous than some individual disgruntled ex-community member. And that's what happens when you keep people in the dark. Maybe the problem is still very small, maybe Jolla can overcome it with major progress, but what if they can't. What if it keeps growing. A change in comms policy would IMO help.

Sure, there are common issues in FOSS projects. Perhaps fk_lx vs. Perl is one of those examples, although I'd say it is more of a personality conflict that got ugly on both sides with the exclusions and revenges. But I'm not really interested in that part much, I think Jolla's comms overall towards a lot of people and towards perfectly regular concerns, have been anything but transparent. Nothing to do with sense of entitlement either. Jolla can do as they please. I'm offering my feedback on how I think they would do better.

All the more reason, then, to give Jolla honest feedback to make them better. I honestly believe what you suggest is about the worst idea a community could suggest. Don't like it? Leave. That's not a community. But more importantly, I find that terrible advice if we want Jolla to succeed.

fk_lx may hate, but I doubt anyone else on this thread does. I do think Jolla's creds within the community would increase immensely through a more open comms policy, though. Don't avoid tough subjects, don't put swipe them under the carpet hoping they'll go away (they just might grow big), don't resort to innuendo when you can't say something (it's just bad form to imply something and let that linger), avoid corporate PR platitudes at all costs (Jolla is not a big company, their audience are early adopters), avoid hyping things in places where you can't address the real issues (if you can't address the concern, some you rock PR will only hurt there) - those would be my recommendations.

Obviously Jolla is free to ignore the advice, but that doesn't mean the advice would necessarily be wrong - let alone out of malice.

jalyst made a good post and great suggestions to Jolla. Let's not let this fk_lx hooplah or GIFs overwhelm that.

Thank you, jalyst.

And just so that my comment above is clear, here is the jalyst suggestion I was referring to - see page 3 or so of the thread to see the message he was responding to:

See, it doesn't even suggest more comms, it might actually be less comms - less work. Just more brutal honesty those times that communications is offered and is warranted.

It is a very good suggestion from jalyst.

Well that is one not very common, and unfortunate event, and that was done for a very good reason. You can even see the people in the log you pointed at agree with the action. And I do not want to comment further on this as I don't want to get sucked into that mess more than I am already. That is not out of the will to hide things, but rather personal self-preservation.

It is interesting how everybody who complains about Jolla openess only talks about vague tough topics we don't answer on. What are they? Maybe you just missed the answer?

Could someone close this thread and ban multiple accounts please?
Or do we need to post cat pics again?

I would to ask what _alleged_ wife harassing has to do with banning someone from IRC channels like #jollamobile. How it is realted with Jolla topic? What are those good reasons you are speaking about are? Tell us.

There was no wife harassing and mr. Munk now tries to explain through his lawyer that word "harass" has different meaning in British and American English. Also he claims that #jollamobile is his private channel (what then it does on official sailfishos.org website?). That's his line of defense now... Unfortunately it seems it will end at court if the other side is not willing to look for amicable solution to prevent court case.

But going back to Jolla. How does it goes along with such values as respect? Mr Munk did exactly what Mr Perl did earlier, got rid/excluded someone because of purely personal reasons and using exaggeration. "Wife harassing" libel was just a handy tool to discredit and get rid of someone.

How does Mr Munk coworkers behave:
https://twitter.com/J00lllaaaPL/stat...49796619206656

There is some sad story/secret behind it? Really? Saying that and not saying what it is or who is the source of such revelation is nothing more than a pure insinuation. Is that how Jolla means being respectful? Ok, they can always say that Harri was speaking private there. I think for Jolla it is very handy way to say when their employees are speaking privately or as a company, depending what is better in certain case (like Mr Munk's claims through his lawyer that #jollamobile is his private channel to justify his actions on that channel).
Jolla behaviour is really comparable to situation where Minister of Enviroment (put here Munk/Perl) after hours, during weekend throws trash in the forest and when caught, then prime minister (put here Jolla) explains that his minister was doing that as a private person not as a minister. Do you see the hypocrisy in such statements?

That's a very poor justification. If the people from the log will decide to stone someone it will be ok? Do you agree with that? Who of those guys from logs really took effort to get a professional translator to check what was written by me on Twitter? No, Google Translate has poor quality of translating to Polish, due to complicated grammar rules and different forms, that sometimes change the whole meaning. Most of people simply believed in what Munk was saying, because how such technical genius could be wrong.

Also if you look here Philippe, there are different opinions than yours about whole case by people from .... Scandinavia (Janne, Random Random):

http://mynokiablog.com/2014/08/21/jo...#disqus_thread

To me Jolla is not an open company. If their strategy is to show everyone that they are perfect and they rock, then I don't think they will have a bright future and success. Compare Jolla and how Neo900 project openly comunicates about problems.

why? discussion is finally going somewhere! seeing arguments from both sides of the argument i can relate to or agree with!

would love to see more funded advice though, taking previous arguments in account and staying realistic.

- the right midway between everything completely open (software but also communications good&bad) and partly -but very slowly increasingly more- open is something that is very hard to determine.
- the 'start-up' phase feeling is coming to an end for a lot of people, but do not feel as if much has changed in terms of complete services, while others demand services that are inherent to a start-up culture
- in these discussions the hours the average jolla sailor has in a day seems not always taken into account. i don't get why this does not go via tjc? that is where they prioritize their time with regard to the community

i take an extreme-mid-neutral position in all of these topics.



Edit: uch, seems like another post was made while i was typing my nuanced story. i try to find myself in your arguments and see your side of the story, but with all guerrilla-style posting the same story over and over and over again this is getting increasingly hard. as mentioned before, maybe time to move on.

Maybe time to close this thread after all.

It is? fk_lx is posting with himself imo. Philippe doesn't want to post anymore about this he told in his last post.

That random random guy by the way fk_lx just wrote about in that Disqus discussion is a multiple account by fk_lx too imo. Even that @J00lllaaaPL twitter account is controlled by fk_lx.

So it's just feeding the troll.

Do we really need to go on with this till no Jolla employe ever comes again to visit TMO? Do we really need to support a private war that began long before Jolla was there?

Sorry to disappoint you but I don't have multiple accounts on TMO and MyNokiaBlog disqus. If you doubt it, ask admins at those places.