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Is there a section to talk about Java ME? Apps, etc. (3)
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	wicket	2019-04-04 , 04:14
	Posts: 634 \| Thanked: 3,266 times \| Joined on May 2010 @ Colombia	#21

I've got to say, I don't think the situation has improved at all. It's got to the point where you if you contribute something, someone will find a way to tear it apart. Nothing serious, but I'm just bored of it to be frank. The Maemo Code of Conduct is regularly ignored by many forum members, the council is nowhere to be seen. All that's left is perhaps one active moderator who finds it necessary to assert his authority as he likes.

Dave999 hasn't been seen for few weeks now. It seems to me he was forced to leave TMO. I know he upset people in the past, and perhaps he earned himself a reputation, but some people here have condemned him for eternity. As far as I could tell, he mostly behaved himself as of late, and his last few posts did not warrant that kind of threat. Sure he likes to talk a lot, but I've seen other members who have been way more disruptive.

Other prominent members have also not been seen lately. I can't really blame them for leaving, this place is becoming more and more hostile by the minute. I think I'm done too. I don't think this forum represents free software values any more, and intelligent debates are long gone. Consider this a goodbye. I'll be around due to my interest in truly free mobile operating systems, and will continue to contribute to Maemo Leste, but that community mostly resides on IRC. That said, there may be a need to post here occasionally for something Maemo Leste related, but otherwise I'm done with this forum.

Chao!

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	endsormeans	2019-04-04 , 04:46
	Posts: 3,139 \| Thanked: 8,156 times \| Joined on Feb 2013 @ From my Gabriola Island hermitage, near the Edge of the World	#22

What the heck?

Have I been out of the loop?
Dave is gone?
I thought he was just busy...or didn't have much to say...
I haven't been following most of the goings on here..
A couple of threads at best.
Dave seemed fine to me...
He had valid grievances about Jolla ...
But that was long ago...
Dave told to go?
By whom?
Who sanctioned this?
I would like to know what spurred this..
I'll get a hold of him as well....

It has been quiet from quite a number of folks...
Didn't know they were gone though.

And you going wicket?
That is not good.
don't let folks deter you man...
Upstarts come and go...
Being a positive presence here is important.
Without that...well...definitely no good will come of decent folks leaving.

I would like to see these offending posts and threads...
Tell the buggers to smarten the hell up.
Or get the hell out.

I need to sit down the next few nights and read over some threads it seems.

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1-n770 (in retirement), 3-n800's / 3-n810's (still in daily use), 5-n900's ((3 are flawless, 1 loose usb ( parts), 1 has no telephony (parts))
3-nexus 5's : 1 w/ Floko Pie 9.1 (running beautifully) waiting for Stable Droid 10 rom, 1 w/ ̶Ubuntu Touch, 1 with Maru OS (intend maemo leste when ready)
1/2 - neo900 pre- "purchased" in 2013. N̶o̶w̶ ̶A̶w̶a̶i̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶r̶e̶f̶u̶n̶d̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶c̶e̶s̶s̶ ̶l̶a̶s̶t̶ ̶f̶e̶w̶ ̶y̶e̶a̶r̶s̶ - neo900 start up declared officially dead -
Lost invested funds.

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	pichlo	2019-04-04 , 07:05
	Posts: 6,445 \| Thanked: 20,981 times \| Joined on Sep 2012 @ UK	#23

Originally Posted by wicket

Other prominent members have also not been seen lately. I can't really blame them for leaving, this place is becoming more and more hostile by the minute.

"Hostile"? Seriously? I was just thinking how mellow it has turned after a short period of increased hostility a few months ago.

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	endsormeans	2019-04-04 , 07:20
	Posts: 3,139 \| Thanked: 8,156 times \| Joined on Feb 2013 @ From my Gabriola Island hermitage, near the Edge of the World	#24

I do think that behaviour is not what it should be here.
and other than the leste project ...
there are many non maemo projects and devices about here...
and frankly ...that has ushered in all these "people" ...and I use that word only to be polite to those who definitely do not merit it.

Either kick them the hell out and the threads they rode in on.

Or someone replicates the software and downloads and copies the pertinent subforums ..
and we open up under a proper maemo only site.

Or this place will continue to slide towards the abyss.

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	Fellfrosch	2019-04-04 , 09:33
	Posts: 1,092 \| Thanked: 4,995 times \| Joined on Dec 2009 @ beautiful cave	#25

Originally Posted by wicket

Dave999 hasn't been seen for few weeks now. It seems to me he was forced to leave TMO.

I hope, this is not true!

That would be a shame and BIG mistake. Even so, Dave sometimes also got on my nerves, I see absolutely NO reason for banning him!

Can anybody official give a statement on this?

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	pichlo	2019-04-04 , 09:57
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Originally Posted by endsormeans

I do think that behaviour is not what it should be here.

Compared to 4-5 years ago, definitely. Compared to 4-5 months ago, I think it's got better.

there are many non maemo projects and devices about here...
and frankly ...that has ushered in all these "people" ...

Sadly, that is true. TJC has gone down the way of The Lord of the Flies and some of that has spilled over here.

I am in two minds about "kicking non-Mamemo traffic out". On one hand, I agree. Sailfish, Necumo etc are definitely off-topic.

On the other hand, let's be honest, limiting topics to just Maemo would result in tumbleweeds rolling across the deserted expanses of TMO. (Also, on a personal level as someone who has succumbed to the devil, I would rather ask a Sailfish related question in a friendly place where I can actually hope for an answer than in the pit of vipers called TJC.)

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	Maemish	2019-04-04 , 22:01
	Posts: 1,702 \| Thanked: 4,752 times \| Joined on Apr 2018 @ Helsinki, Finland.	#27

But you are not left alone endsormeans. I'm still here.

For real, I hope there would be room for the good, the bad and the ugly. The new qwerty phone thread brought some foreing fire to the altar of Maemo. But it will be forgotten soon and Nxx0 devices stay.

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	nthn	2019-04-05 , 09:58
	Posts: 764 \| Thanked: 2,888 times \| Joined on Jun 2014	#28

Originally Posted by wicket

Here's an example of a non start-up thread (Sailfish related):

https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=100638

What a way to welcome a new member! Someone simply trying to sell something, followed by a flurry of posts, criticising, some even insulting. Even after I pointed this out, the trolling didn't stop. Thankfully tommo summed it up perfectly.

I've only just seen this post, but would still like to reply that con artists can (also) accurately be described as "someone simply trying to sell something". You are completely ignoring all context and painting said member as wholly innocent and everyone who dishes out criticism as some sort of brutish monster. It's not some bloke who found TMO and said "oh, I still have an old N900 lying around, might as well sell it to these enthusiasts", it isn't even a collector who's trimming their collection, instead it's the very definition of a scalper. A wolf in sheep's clothes, if you will. The idea that sheep should be nice and kind to a wolf just because he's temporarily dressing as a sheep is plainly ridiculous.

By the way, if you read this post, do you still assume innocence? Before that post, the only things that were said were "that's expensive" and "Turing phones don't receive any software updates". Does that really warrant such a rude and pompous reply from the seller?

As a final note, it's probably too far gone now but the past couple of years there's been a strongly increasing trend to write off all criticism, snarky or not, as 'trolling', but that's not at all what trolling is about. Unfortunately, most of the times it's now used to say "I don't agree with you, hence you're a troll". The same thing has happened to a slightly lesser extent to the concept of a 'strawman': "I don't agree with or simply don't understand your argument, therefore it's a strawman". It's really frustrating as these debate stoppers (in my language there's a nice word for them called 'dooddoeners': death-doers/killers) quickly kill off all legitimate discussion.

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	Fellfrosch	2019-04-05 , 10:24
	Posts: 1,092 \| Thanked: 4,995 times \| Joined on Dec 2009 @ beautiful cave	#29

I think it's too easy, searching the culprits in Sailfish and whatever users.
I'm using a Sailfish device as my main device, but still firing up my good old N900 from time to time. So what am I? A polite and respectful Maemo User or ****ing internet troll using Sailfish?

Yes, it's became rougher here in that forum. But the problem I see is more that there a so few left and for that reason, there is no proper moderation anymore.

Anyway I see it like nthn. The example given, isn't a good one. Especially because the answers weren't harsh but just questioned if the price is serious.

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imaginaryenemy	2019-04-05 , 15:18
Posts: 649 \| Thanked: 762 times \| Joined on Mar 2012 @ Ohio	#30

Originally Posted by nthn

I've only just seen this post, but would still like to reply that con artists can (also) accurately be described as "someone simply trying to sell something". You are completely ignoring all context and painting said member as wholly innocent and everyone who dishes out criticism as some sort of brutish monster. It's not some bloke who found TMO and said "oh, I still have an old N900 lying around, might as well sell it to these enthusiasts", it isn't even a collector who's trimming their collection, instead it's the very definition of a scalper. A wolf in sheep's clothes, if you will. The idea that sheep should be nice and kind to a wolf just because he's temporarily dressing as a sheep is plainly ridiculous.

By the way, if you read this post, do you still assume innocence? Before that post, the only things that were said were "that's expensive" and "Turing phones don't receive any software updates". Does that really warrant such a rude and pompous reply from the seller?

As a final note, it's probably too far gone now but the past couple of years there's been a strongly increasing trend to write off all criticism, snarky or not, as 'trolling', but that's not at all what trolling is about. Unfortunately, most of the times it's now used to say "I don't agree with you, hence you're a troll". The same thing has happened to a slightly lesser extent to the concept of a 'strawman': "I don't agree with or simply don't understand your argument, therefore it's a strawman". It's really frustrating as these debate stoppers (in my language there's a nice word for them called 'dooddoeners': death-doers/killers) quickly kill off all legitimate discussion.

It is my belief that wicket's comment that you are quoting is almost entirely aimed at you. I don't think the comments before yours, nor the sellers response to them were of note at all. You saying that he(?) is the " the scum of the earth" because he is trying to sell something that he believes has increased in value since its release is certainly of note.

The internet has always been a place where people can do and say things without the same threat of consequence that is found in the real world. This leads (in my experience) to more frequent and heated "debates". I think that everyone is very aware of the buttons they are pressing when they press them. Let's not be surprised when the mean spirited comments we make have the desired response.

All of that being said, I rarely think people have "crossed the line" in what is said here. I come here for entertainment (as I'm sure most of you do), and I am never disappointed.