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	misterc	2012-05-11 , 17:40
	Posts: 1,625 \| Thanked: 998 times \| Joined on Aug 2010	#881

Originally Posted by joerg_rw

Honestly, guys (and gals)
Next Council's election is a genuine and most noble task of current council. No matter what's to be done to make it happen, it's first and foremost council's duty to track and followup on it. (BTW a possible flaw in statutes, as a council not willing to drive its own replacement will simply not do anything, seems we're seeing similar situation right now)

If help of anyone from Nokia/Nemein is needed, it's up to council to ask for it, monitor it, and take whatever needed action to make it happen in time. Incl several times of asking what's current state and prognosis if any task got delegated.

BTW on topic "in time": tokens ought have been sent out to users several days, even weeks before voting opens - obvious, isn't it? Also much broader visible advertising of council election was desirable. E.G. on IRC I basically haven't heard a word about election form any of the current council nor from any of the candidates.

i'll refer you to my signature...
i guess you want the information lying nicely on your desk, next to your morning coffee?
maybe doughnuts, bacon hash and broiled eggs with that?

Originally Posted by joerg_rw

That's already ~400 users that neither received any mail regarding election, nor might they be willing to scan tmo on a regular basis.

if you can't be bothered coming regularly on TMO (or visiting the Communities' wiki...) what do you care?

Originally Posted by joerg_rw

my 2 €ct
jOERG

keep 'em

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	joerg_rw	2012-05-11 , 17:49
	Posts: 2,222 \| Thanked: 12,651 times \| Joined on Mar 2010 @ SOL 3	#882

Originally Posted by misterc

i'll refer you to my signature...
[blablabla]
if you can't be bothered coming regularly on TMO (or visiting the Communities' wiki...) what do you care?

keep 'em

You, Sir, are a real disgrace for maemo community. Esp since you think you're in a position to define what's the true meaning of "maemo community" as well as imposing an assumed appropriate behaviour for each community member. There's nothing wrong with not checking tmo on a daily basis, and your post delivers best evidence why a lot of proper maemo community members don't particularly like to touch tmo at all.

*plonk*
jOERG

[edit] and yes, I actually expect this mail with my token for vote to sit next my ham&eggs on my laptop, several weeks before voting starts. Anything else would actually violate the rules for council election procedure.

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Last edited by joerg_rw; 2012-05-11 at 17:55.

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	Estel	2012-05-11 , 17:57
	Posts: 5,028 \| Thanked: 8,613 times \| Joined on Mar 2011	#883

Originally Posted by joerg_rw

Honestly, guys (and gals)
Next Council's election is a genuine and most noble task of current council. No matter what's to be done to make it happen, it's first and foremost council's duty to track and followup on it. (

Would agree, if not a small glitch - it would be entirely true, if Council would actually *have* any technical possibilities (access to infrastructure) to keep it going.

Now, what you're saying is like "every member of HEN team is obliged to release new version, because improved booston was released ages ago". Sure, in principle, it's true, but You don't have technical means to "force" MAG into updating GUI to current state and releasing new version.
---

I think that lesson from this is - in contacts with our technical staff, we must be as bureaucratic as possible/required (sadly, as I would prefer to start from "people mean well" [at least here] position ). It was clearly stated, that X-Fade will check on dates and get election going.

The only thing I may admit, is that quick reaction should be took no latter than on 10th's May end, but it apply to everyone interested (me included). SD69 is only one active Council member currently, and it's somehow understandable, that he didn't managed to react as swiftly as we would like. Fortunately, number of council volunteers is going to get back into normal, right?
---

As for Your ideas - election banner is sitting on any maemo.org infrastructure page (not only TMO) for quite a long time. Voting was covered extensively on Maemo mailing list. Every registered member with enough karma will get e-mail baloon about voting, with a week time to participate. IMo, it's more than enough. IRC Announce could be nice addition, but honestly, it could be done by any willing member - same apply for blogs (BTW, election was covered in Maemo Weekly News many times, including candidate's declarations) and other less formal ways of communication.

Honestly - again - I'm not very sympathetic about baloon idea. Instead, I would like banner/info posted month before election, announce on mailing list, etc - it would ensure, that any active Maemo participant will have 110% chance of knowing about votes. Sending baloon to everyone with Karma of 10 - even if he doesn't have anything to do with Maemo for months or years - isn't going to bring us reasonable voters, actively interested in Maemo's grown. I would rather say, that many voters will just pick "almost random" basing on Candidates declarations, without even knowing what they (declarations) are referring to - but,, if You have vote, it's a loss to not use it, yep?

/Estel

// Edit

Of course I understand, that current rules require such e-mail baloon. I think that - amongst other, more important things - a referendum should be held during next council's period, about improving voting procedure.

I'm quite certain, that proper announcement on infrastructure many weeks before (month or more) + mailing list + IRC + TMO + Council's official blog would be enough, and there is no gain from bringing "dead souls" (at least, those having 10+ karma) via mail.

BTW, hoerg_rw, don't waste time and nerves for mrtroll. Personally, I've added him into blacklist many months ago, and it's proper place for him, amongst other TMO "stars".

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Last edited by Estel; 2012-05-11 at 18:03.

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	misterc	2012-05-11 , 18:01
	Posts: 1,625 \| Thanked: 998 times \| Joined on Aug 2010	#884

Originally Posted by joerg_rw

You, Sir, are a real disgrace for maemo community. Esp since you think you're in a position to define what's the true meaning of "maemo community" as well as imposing an assumed appropriate behaviour for each community member. There's nothing wrong with not checking tmo on a daily basis, and your post delivers best evidence why a lot of proper maemo community members don't particularly like to touch tmo at all.

*plonk*
jOERG

[edit] and yes, I actually expect this mail with my token for vote to sit next my ham&eggs on my laptop, several weeks before voting starts. Everything else is actually violating the rules for council election procedure.

what mostly makes TMO unpleasant is

trolls that post personal attacks (e.g. to current Council members) for the sole sake of starting a flame war
(i'm not going to waste anymore gasoline on you... )
so called users who haven't posted (on a thread) for ages or ever) and complain...
those ppl actually don't deserve an answer and the only reason i wasted two posts on you was because of above *...

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	joerg_rw	2012-05-11 , 18:12
	Posts: 2,222 \| Thanked: 12,651 times \| Joined on Mar 2010 @ SOL 3	#885

Originally Posted by Estel

Would agree, if not a small glitch - it would be entirely true, if Council would actually *have* any technical possibilities (access to infrastructure) to keep it going.

Unrelated. Read my post again, I covered delegation, verbosely.

Originally Posted by Estel

Honestly - again - I'm not very sympathetic about baloon idea. Instead, I would like banner/info posted month before election, announce on mailing list, etc - it would ensure, that any active Maemo participant will have 110% chance of knowing about votes. Sending baloon to everyone with Karma of 10 - even if he doesn't have anything to do with Maemo for months or years - isn't going to bring us reasonable voters, actively interested in Maemo's grown.
/Estel

So you're free to redefine maemo council statutes in the future, by any defined process to do that the right way. For now we're acting according to recent statutes and those don't say anything about mandatory reading of tmo, nor about any other prerequisite except that karma threshold, which afaik was best metrics the authors of the statutes could come up with to tell apart active community members from occasional lurkers.
Excluding parts of your eligible voters by not informing them about election is rather evil an approach for a basically democratic community. I guess you'll agree if you think twice. (Are you living in Russia, or Italy, by any chance?)

/j

[edit] I guess by baloon you mean ballot

Last edited by joerg_rw; 2012-05-11 at 22:29.

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	fw190	2012-05-11 , 18:17
	Posts: 584 \| Thanked: 700 times \| Joined on Jan 2010	#886

Originally Posted by misterc

Code:
They pay people
that's called delegation
do you go bark at your companies' CEO every time the IT helpdesk doesn't answer one of your requests quickly enough?
probably not.
could you?
sure.
you'll make about 200% sure that it'll take even longer next time around you forget a comma or question mark 'cuz, "sorry, your request is not clear..."

bottom line, if you want to be babysitted, maybe it's time to move on to Lumia devices & have Bllamer tell you exactly how to do what where and when?

Thank you for the insults pointed at me. If a man takes money for something- he does it, if he can't he shouldn't take the money.

Someone who is responsible for cooperation with a community just cant act and work like this because the results are as we can see it. Pure nonsens.

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	Estel	2012-05-11 , 18:17
	Posts: 5,028 \| Thanked: 8,613 times \| Joined on Mar 2011	#887

Originally Posted by joerg_rw

Excluding parts of your eligible voters by not informing them about election is rather evil an approach for a basically democratic community. I guess you'll agree if you think twice. (Are you living in Russia, or Italy, by any chance?)

/j

Hey, in Russia, not only election time was presented many weeks ago, but also election winner was well known before!

(I hope that this little pun doesn't offend any Russian here)

Here we agree 100%, that's why I'm talking about upgrading process in future. Now, we have kind of a mess, so best we can do is fix it as much as we can.

Could You please change topic in #maemo IRC channel to one referring Election and pointing to Candidates Declaration wiki page? I know that You have technical privileges sufficient to do it.

/Estel

Last edited by Estel; 2012-05-11 at 18:19.

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	misterc	2012-05-11 , 18:36
	Posts: 1,625 \| Thanked: 998 times \| Joined on Aug 2010	#888

Originally Posted by fw190

Thank you for the insults pointed at me.

take it as an insult if you have to...
it is a solution to your predicament

Originally Posted by fw190

If a man takes money for something- he does it, if he can't he shouldn't take the money.

i'm not aware of all the technical background of Maemo, but from reading this thread for 1½ year i think NOKIA only pays for hosting services.
they do not actually pay anyone to "coach" the community;
again. that's what the Council is for (too)

the ppl from NOKIA who liaise with the Council do so as an added service to their normal (Maemo related?) tasks, my understanding.

Originally Posted by fw190

Someone who is responsible for cooperation with a community just cant act and work like this because the results are as we can see it. Pure nonsens.

from a Council meeting or two i attended, i had the impression the "contacts" (i.e. those «esponsible for cooperation») are very available as long as

the activity can be handled in the spare time they can muster
they don't have to go look for the work but the work "is forwarded to them" (see previous point)

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	joerg_rw	2012-05-11 , 21:18
	Posts: 2,222 \| Thanked: 12,651 times \| Joined on Mar 2010 @ SOL 3	#889

Originally Posted by Estel

Could You please change topic in #maemo IRC channel to one referring Election and pointing to Candidates Declaration wiki page? I know that You have technical privileges sufficient to do it.

/Estel

sure thing, I'm happy to help whenever I can :-) Just ask!
/j

oops, could you please provide proper URLs (maybe even shorties, this particular time, as it's for topic which is length-limited)

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	joerg_rw	2012-05-12 , 13:45
	Posts: 2,222 \| Thanked: 12,651 times \| Joined on Mar 2010 @ SOL 3	#890

@estel: see last post. Could you provide the links you want to get placed into IRC topic?
/j

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