@juiceme to be fair I got you list of apps people from here asked for http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...72&postcount=1

Yeap and they are more opensource, they are really transparent, but there is always trick. I just read about snappy instead of deb, they are going to control their ecosystem

Don't forget about this discussion, folks...

Alternative Sailfish ODM(s), latest news/rumours/speculation

Excellent list.

On quick browsing through I found out that some of the wishes there already do exist as native apps, and seems the list has not been updated since 12-10-13 at 13:10 which means it indeed is somewhat out-of-date.

It would be very nice indeed if all those were available.

Once the phone starts to have tablet functionality there is a wild growth of more or less popular programs expectations that divides the software writers' opinions over what they need to program first. (whatsapp, spotify, facebook etc all receiving attention)

As a user I prefer to have the the previously integrated stuff (SIP, Skype, XMPP) close at hand.

It is only the basic communication stuff that works (and worked for ages) without touch screen and for who's absence the presence of a touch screen in the device should not be held as an excuse.
Todays device with plenty of RAM and better processing power could enhance those features with full video and encryption functionality.

Yet the Jolla phone still does not offer what my N900 offers me: navigate to contact, choose any of above communication tools to communicate with my contact.

A major addition in terms of telecommunications functionality is the automatic call recorder that has been brought by community. Call recorder: check!

Also having IRC in your pocket as native is right on spot feature for a communication centred device like the Jolla phone, again thank you community. This is job done right and there is no need for x00 other competing clients in my opinion. IRC: check!

And so I could go on for the other 20 - 30 possibly ver useful extra applications that one needs or wants to install before forgetting about “appshop”.

I can't believe that I still can't pickup my Jolla and call somebody with a native SIP client.

Yes I know there is a proof of concept that SIP works from the command line.

The anno 2015 lacking of this basic functionality that made the spiritual predecessors of the Jolla so great for end users like me makes me conclude that Jolla is setting the foremost example of "lack of intrest in Jolla".

@Zogg

Reading you, it sounds like Jolla should just close their business. Do you have any money bet on that

Just teasing you but it really seems that you do not have any hope that the current situation is good and that it can even improve, with respect with Jolla business. But at least, you are interested a lot because you participate a lot in the discussion ;-)

When I mention transparency (I did not say openness ), I mean that I do believe (and hope) that they share what they can. This is not as easy as for a bigger company.
I could write more about my feelings but I am not sure you are interested
But what is clear is that they are not the same as Google (and worst in the future). And I hope that when you write something like this, you do exaggerate.

To the contrary, I would ask you : what is not transparent with Jolla and is in other companies? And I am deeply interested to know the answer because it seems that you know quite well the market.
They provide some roadmap, some ideas about what is going on with the tablet (including recognising some delays, and silently admiting that they made a mistake claiming earlier that they were ahead of the schedule).

In short version, not only to give PR by sharing info, but also not hiding bad things under the table, we do not need to know all details and infra from inside, but some delays and hickups are important to people who wants to make commitment to OS. There are a lot of things in history of jolla that repeat themselves self, but as it's not brought to attention (or even shadowed by good PR with a lot of big words like "trasparency", "openess" and "unlike") no one pay attention to them. There are few things that were promised and discussed and still have no answers. As starters the code that was promised to be open (for now we only got browser). As well as there are still a lot of restrictions and no paid apps, which were discussed and promised for a while ago too, but no update and if people ask questions after a lot of silence and only with a lot of attention we get general postpone answer. Same with latest update with no HW specification, btw phone's HW were reveled too late too (not all inof was provided before preorder).
You can see how even on their own TJC not all questions with a lot of votes get proper attention, while those a smaller and/or those who can benefit them to look good. I know you can say about half glass good or half bad. And that's why i always try to remind to look at the bad side too, do not forget it and try to change it to make it full glass of water.
Let's be rational and see that there is almost to none 3rd parties applications and few hackers and indie devs around, and platform is here for a while now. And you can always say that they are small company, but my point is that not only made it more difficult for devs, they pushed them away in many senses. They were building on skills and users from TMO, while to make device also to end users and to have sort of control (closed parts, less engagement, no roadmaps, bugtracker (do not call TJC bug tracker, as it's q-a platform, not even forum or wiki). While they talk about openness and transparency, it's more like just PR words.
Though i still do there are a lot of talents there (mostly devs), but gathering talented people together does not make it good company.

I don't get the point of the last few pages of this discussion. Is comparing features of Google Android and Google's attitude to features of sailfish and Jolla's doing business really the intention of the original discussion?

I am really interested in good and reasonable arguments why having paid apps is a driver for having good apps, making more features available and making development progress better.
And those questions should be answered by common sense, not by "look at how google and apple does it"

In the past years I have come to learn about linux and open source especially with my N900. All I could see is the benefit of people working on a problem together to get the best results. And to have variety you don't need to start your own from scratch, you can fork most of the times.

And there is another issue of paid apps I don't get. You can only have people pay if you keep the app's source closed. Otherwise anyone with a little knowledge could just make. But if you keep the source closed, who could review it for security issues?

sidenote: This actually is something that bothers me already with sailfish as before I had garage.maemo to look up sources if I needed to. And for putting an app to extra you would need to have someone review what you where doing. Is openrepos offering something alike? /sidenote

Last week I have read an article series about android apps and what they do (has been tracked by network actvity via wireshark) and who is getting my data. It really scared the creeps out of me. This is because most android users don't care and because the platform is designed to hide such data grabbing (well it is initiated by Google, right?)

So my bottomline is: we need open source and the best financing for it is funding/donation. You couldn't make a living from payment anyway. And the thinking a platform can only be successful if there is payment has been introduced by companies who get their share from other people using their platform for selling apps. Who do you think wins most on that? The developer or the platform provider?

Jolla's involvement in the ecosystem/apps with developers is very important, I am just wondering how much Jolla will be able to make progress on the ecosystem/apps, considering that their main effort until the end of July will be the tablet release and SFOS-2 integration with the Jolla phone, then they should concentrate on a Jolla2 device?

Perfect description!