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2011-08-23
, 09:43
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Posts: 4,384 |
Thanked: 5,524 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ ˙ǝɹǝɥʍou
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#282
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Originally Posted by abill_uk
Looks like you're going to collect some overdue respect from this community...
..however i have placed an order for 20 of the 64gb version and i will have an answer on that at the end of the month so will probably offload some on ebay.
Let me know if you run into problems and i will certainly point you in the right direction.
__________________
Class .. : Power User
Humor .. : [#####-----] | Alignment: Pragmatist
Patience : [###-------] | Weapon(s): Galaxy Note + BB Bold Touch 9900
Agro ... : [###-------] | Relic(s) : iPhone 4S, Atrix, Milestone, N900, N800, N95, HTC G1, Treos, Zauri, BB 9000, BB 9700, etc
Class .. : Power User
Humor .. : [#####-----] | Alignment: Pragmatist
Patience : [###-------] | Weapon(s): Galaxy Note + BB Bold Touch 9900
Agro ... : [###-------] | Relic(s) : iPhone 4S, Atrix, Milestone, N900, N800, N95, HTC G1, Treos, Zauri, BB 9000, BB 9700, etc
Follow the MeeGo Coding Competition!
Last edited by ysss; 2011-08-23 at 09:48.
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2011-08-23
, 09:45
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Banned |
Posts: 3,412 |
Thanked: 1,043 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#283
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Originally Posted by ysss
It is no secret, i am getting them direct from Nokia, it is not what you know in this world ..... approx date for me is 3rd Sept but even i have to wait and see.
Looks like you're going to collect some overdue respect from this community...
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2011-08-23
, 10:02
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Posts: 735 |
Thanked: 1,054 times |
Joined on Jun 2010
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#284
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Originally Posted by abill_uk
Cheers, good to know. one of the HP toucpads is for the folks anyway, so even if i do get a firesale Pre3 i might just offload it onto them if an attractive offer on the N9 turns up.
I take it your looking to get the N9 and i still think it will not be available in the UK so we will just have to wait and see, however i have placed an order for 20 of the 64gb version and i will have an answer on that at the end of the month so will probably offload some on ebay.
Let me know if you run into problems and i will certainly point you in the right direction
PS nice blog by the way... i just went through it
I have after all been writing about it for over a year, and an N900 owner for 20 months now!
Cheers about the blog, it's just a hobby, but i do enjoy writing.
Last edited by Jedibeeftrix; 2011-08-23 at 10:05.
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2011-08-23
, 12:32
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Posts: 162 |
Thanked: 351 times |
Joined on Apr 2006
@ Cotswolds, UK
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#285
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This community is dying for one reason only: because Nokia has stopped making devices -- so users and developers are moving to other devices (some faster, others slower, but eventually everyone will go when their devices fail).
It is nothing to do with money, nor to do with what anyone says on the forum. Nor is it to do with the success or otherwise of any other project. It is because there are no devices!
However, the community is not dead yet. Many people still want to use their devices, some even want to continue to develop for their devices.
As long as Nokia is willing to keep funding the infrastructure, that is great. Once Nokia stop funding, all the community needs is a forum, a wiki and a repository. There is no need for grandiose plans for legal entities, subscriptions, membership, governance or anything like that -- I am sure two or three volunteers will step up to provide the limited hosting services needed (especially as the community will be a lot smaller still if the plug is not pulled for another 18 months).
But whether you agree with my minimal, low cost vision, or abill_uk's much more expansive vision, the council's effort between now and then should go on making sure that Nokia permits us to host, on this new infrastructure, everything we need which they still own. That includes device images (for flashing, preferably including the special images for N900 Fremantle Stars prototype devices -- which we need to be able to keep running as more and more devices die) and documentation (including material currently on Forum Nokia). We should also make sure we have clarity that everything currently on maemo.org (including the Wiki and the bug reports and history) can be taken with us.
The practical steps which can, and should, be taken now are to identify all the IPR we need continued access to and to get Nokia to put it under a suitably free licence. That will probably take a year as Nokia will have little interest in paying their lawyers to work on that so we will have to call in all the help we can to even achieve that much!
I certainly hope that there are some council candidates who will focus on this important and immediate activity instead of grandiose plans which no one needs and no one will pay for, in a shrinking community.
Last edited by Graham Cobb; 2011-08-23 at 12:47. Reason: Clarify practical steps whatever the vision
It is nothing to do with money, nor to do with what anyone says on the forum. Nor is it to do with the success or otherwise of any other project. It is because there are no devices!
However, the community is not dead yet. Many people still want to use their devices, some even want to continue to develop for their devices.
As long as Nokia is willing to keep funding the infrastructure, that is great. Once Nokia stop funding, all the community needs is a forum, a wiki and a repository. There is no need for grandiose plans for legal entities, subscriptions, membership, governance or anything like that -- I am sure two or three volunteers will step up to provide the limited hosting services needed (especially as the community will be a lot smaller still if the plug is not pulled for another 18 months).
But whether you agree with my minimal, low cost vision, or abill_uk's much more expansive vision, the council's effort between now and then should go on making sure that Nokia permits us to host, on this new infrastructure, everything we need which they still own. That includes device images (for flashing, preferably including the special images for N900 Fremantle Stars prototype devices -- which we need to be able to keep running as more and more devices die) and documentation (including material currently on Forum Nokia). We should also make sure we have clarity that everything currently on maemo.org (including the Wiki and the bug reports and history) can be taken with us.
The practical steps which can, and should, be taken now are to identify all the IPR we need continued access to and to get Nokia to put it under a suitably free licence. That will probably take a year as Nokia will have little interest in paying their lawyers to work on that so we will have to call in all the help we can to even achieve that much!
I certainly hope that there are some council candidates who will focus on this important and immediate activity instead of grandiose plans which no one needs and no one will pay for, in a shrinking community.
Last edited by Graham Cobb; 2011-08-23 at 12:47. Reason: Clarify practical steps whatever the vision
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2011-08-23
, 13:03
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Posts: 1,513 |
Thanked: 2,248 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ US
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#286
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Originally Posted by Graham Cobb
Thanks for your comments. I'm not much interested in a subscription, etc., either. What if a free license is not possible? We may need some redistributable binaries to continue with SW development and how do you propose that "we" get those.?
The practical steps which can, and should, be taken now are to identify all the IPR we need continued access to and to get Nokia to put it under a suitably free licence. That will probably take a year as Nokia will have little interest in paying their lawyers to work on that so we will have to call in all the help we can to even achieve that much!
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2011-08-23
, 13:48
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Posts: 162 |
Thanked: 351 times |
Joined on Apr 2006
@ Cotswolds, UK
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#287
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Originally Posted by SD69
Hard problem, which is why it needs to be worked on for a year or so. I think the starting point is to identify exactly what we are asking for and why: which binaries do we want to distribute? why? what is planned which requires this? what might someone want to do which they won't be able to do if we don't have this?
We may need some redistributable binaries to continue with SW development and how do you propose that "we" get those.?
Then we need to try to mobilise our friends (Quim, etc) to help understand what objections there may be and how we overcome them and get support for what we need.
There are no guarantees of success but my guess is that it will become harder over time rather than easier (because friends and supporters leave and Nokia cares less about the community). So, it needs to start soon (if it hasn't already).
I am hoping someone who has been involved in some of those discussions already will step forward to lead this.
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2011-08-23
, 14:31
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Posts: 1,513 |
Thanked: 2,248 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ US
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#288
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Originally Posted by Graham Cobb
It has already started Graham.
Hard problem, which is why it needs to be worked on for a year or so. I think the starting point is to identify exactly what we are asking for and why: which binaries do we want to distribute? why? what is planned which requires this? what might someone want to do which they won't be able to do if we don't have this?
Then we need to try to mobilise our friends (Quim, etc) to help understand what objections there may be and how we overcome them and get support for what we need.
There are no guarantees of success but my guess is that it will become harder over time rather than easier (because friends and supporters leave and Nokia cares less about the community). So, it needs to start soon (if it hasn't already).
I am hoping someone who has been involved in some of those discussions already will step forward to lead this.
Who is "we" in your comments and how do "we" get the license? Quim once queried - if we were to handover maemo.org, who would we hand it over to? A legal entity provides an answer to those questions.
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2011-08-23
, 15:08
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Posts: 162 |
Thanked: 351 times |
Joined on Apr 2006
@ Cotswolds, UK
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#289
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Originally Posted by SD69
Good to hear. But I think the problem is wider than just the binary blobs. It would be great to hear that someone is working on an inventory of all the things we need licences to distribute.
It has already started Graham.
Who is "we" in your comments and how do "we" get the license? Quim once queried - if we were to handover maemo.org, who would we hand it over to? A legal entity provides an answer to those questions.
I don't want to see the material limited to being distributed by one particular entity.
By all means look into setting up a legal entity to receive the maemo.org name, if you wish. I am absolutely certain that will never happen: Nokia legal won't allow it out of their control as it has a special role in the default software on the devices. Fortunately, we don't need the maemo.org name to keep the community running.
In my mind, this question of how we get rights to allow anyone to distribute all the pieces we need to keep one or more maemo enthusiasts communities running is the (only) serious topic for this council election.
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2011-08-23
, 16:25
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Posts: 1,513 |
Thanked: 2,248 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ US
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#290
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Originally Posted by Graham Cobb
The problem is wider even than that.
Good to hear. But I think the problem is wider than just the binary blobs. It would be great to hear that someone is working on an inventory of all the things we need licences to distribute.
Originally Posted by Graham Cobb
My preference as well.
I would strongly prefer that the answer to your question is "anyone". In other words, I would prefer licences where Nokia says anyone is free to distribute the item.
Originally Posted by Graham Cobb
I disagree. I think there is plenty enough interest in a self-governing community promoting the only existing GNU/Linux SW for mobile devices.
I do not believe a legal entity has a future -- even if one was established initially I think it would very rapidly fall by the wayside and shut itself down once the community declines to very small levels ...
Originally Posted by Graham Cobb
Neither do I. The only thing worse is that it never gets distributed.
I don't want to see the material limited to being distributed by one particular entity.
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Let me know if you run into problems and i will certainly point you in the right direction
PS nice blog by the way... i just went through it
Last edited by abill_uk; 2011-08-23 at 09:26.