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2009-07-31
, 09:14
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Posts: 225 |
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Joined on Feb 2006
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#22
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Originally Posted by qgil
yes, but reviews count for a great deal in an over-populated market sector (phones) and reviewers will point out that the UI/OS is basically redundant. "Consumers" aren't stupid, and in hard times they tend to get even smarter.
Plain ol' consumers, real world users will start thinking their purchasing strategy when they see a new device announced with a price tag attached.
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2009-07-31
, 10:41
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Posts: 356 |
Thanked: 231 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
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#23
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Originally Posted by YoDude
Don't know if there is universal "good upgrade strategy". I can only say what I will do: everything depends on price *and* if N900 hardware will be supported by Harmattan.
BTW, what is a good upgrade strategy for an existing NIT user?
If starting price > $400 or hardware future not clear I will skip and wait for Harmattan. My aging N800 is still good enough for most of my uses.
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2009-07-31
, 10:47
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Posts: 302 |
Thanked: 254 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
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#24
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Originally Posted by Stskeeps
Why don't you say what you really think.
<...> Nokia is saying in Harmattan, - Qt is the toolkit we support/develop/etc. And I personally think that's a great choice to make. Targetting Qt specifically instead of a weird combo of Gtk+, with Hildon widgets on top, can only be a benefit - and allow us to put the Maemo platform (system daemons, APIs, etc) and our applications on a lot of different things - Maemo GTK+ is a bad mess for portability.
What interests me is how much of this full-on switch of loyalty (for the lack of better word) is down to Nokia's desperation to replace the much-maligned Symbian mobile phone platform as fast as they possibly can and their takeover of Qt software, and how much is down to Nokia's lack of control or lack of faith in the direction and abilities of GTK and Hildon?
I am not arguing the decision to switch per se; it must've been made at least a year or two before Maemo users and ordinary developers were told about it... Ergo, I hope Nokia succeeds while managing to keep the new system open enough.
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2009-07-31
, 11:24
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Posts: 302 |
Thanked: 254 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
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#25
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Originally Posted by Jaffa
Commercially realistic?
Which is why the effort - and results - of Nokia and the Mer team are to be lauded in providing a continued mechanism for supporting out-of-date hardware in a commercially realistic way.
a) Most if not all of the commercial developers are porting their apps (Skype, Gizmo, Flash etc.) to Fremantle and those apps will be compatible with Mer as well?
b) Some of the commercial apps will be ported to Fremantle and they will be compatible with Mer as well, the rest will still work despite linking to old Chinook/Diablo-era libraries?
c) All or some of the currently available (but generally aging) commercial apps will continue working under Mer thanks to compatibility layers with the old Chinook/Diablo platform, but the commercial developers will have nothing to do with Mer compatibility?
d) ??
Originally Posted by silvermountain
I have a feeling that the majority of N8x0 users will stick with whatever was installed in their tablet or what they can flash on it using the Official Update Applet; i.e Chinook or Diablo. Most MS-Windows users certainly, and probably many Linux users too.
Even a community as active as this can't possibly juggle updates and ports between, what, five?, OS versions (Diablo/Chinook/Mer/Fremantle/Harmattan).
I guess some would phase out - but aren't people still using Chinook and maybe there will still be users clinging on to Diablo after Mer comes out. It still feels like efforts would/could be spread very thin.
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2009-07-31
, 11:28
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Posts: 2,355 |
Thanked: 5,249 times |
Joined on Jan 2009
@ Barcelona
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#26
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Originally Posted by deadmalc
Doubt that; Gnome and KDE not only differ in toolkit, and while switching toolkits is something you can force yourself to, switching philosophies is not.
Personally I'd like to see a tablet orientated kde4, which I am hoping this is essentially what Harmatten will be. (from a user point of view not a developer)
I personally expect we're going to see what Mark Shuttleworth's once dreamt: QT/Gnome (Mobile).
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2009-07-31
, 12:04
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Posts: 3,105 |
Thanked: 11,088 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Mountain View (CA, USA)
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#27
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Originally Posted by flareup
Reviewers are actually not that different from users: they pay attention specially when there is some product with known specs and price tag - something to look at and play with.
yes, but reviews count for a great deal in an over-populated market sector (phones) and reviewers will point out that the UI/OS is basically redundant. "Consumers" aren't stupid, and in hard times they tend to get even smarter.
Let's see what they say when the announcements are made.
Of course consumers aren't stupid! Even less the potential Maemo users, quite demanding and well informed customers - with plenty of choices at hand. We are working to have something good for them (for you).
The UI/OS is not redundant: is evolving. One day Maemo 5 final will be launched with a device, and this will be the best OS/UI and the best device Maemo will have done. Of course we keep working on further releases and products that should bring better OS/UI and better devices, better developer offering, better compability with other platforms etc.
Also note that you are mixing 2 things: change of toolkit with hardware incompatibilities. Fremantle is not officially supported in OMAP2 devices (N810m N800) because we concluded that Maemo 5 was too much for that hardware if commercially supported. In comparison, the GTK+ and Qt toolkits are very similar in terms of hardware demands. They sit too high in the platform and, as we are insisting, the middleware underneath stays more or less the same, of course with significant version upgrades and enhancements.
So the discussion of Harmattan running or not on the next device has actually little to do with the toolkit officially supported and more on other aspects like what features will Harmattan bring, demanding what hardware capabilities and at what point of time.
Discussing this paragraph above when there is not even a Maemo 5 device announced is an exercise of pure Summer entertainment. (which is fine for the Summer, don't get me wrong)
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2009-07-31
, 12:32
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Posts: 1,070 |
Thanked: 1,604 times |
Joined on Sep 2008
@ Helsinki
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#28
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Originally Posted by qgil
Historically Qt has proven to be faster than GTK+ on slow and limited hardware, as example see the former Qtopia distro in OpenMoko. But of course a lot of people disagree with that point
In comparison, the GTK+ and Qt toolkits are very similar in terms of hardware demands. )
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2009-07-31
, 12:37
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Posts: 2,535 |
Thanked: 6,681 times |
Joined on Mar 2008
@ UK
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#29
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Originally Posted by Peet
i.e. it's commercially unrealistic to expect Nokia to constrain future devices' software by spending lots on supporting previous generation hardware.
Commercially realistic?
However, they can garner goodwill (which translates into potential future sales) by assisting with the community taking on the work of maintaining - and enhancing - previous devices' OSes.
__________________
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Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org
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2009-07-31
, 13:31
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Posts: 225 |
Thanked: 68 times |
Joined on Feb 2006
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#30
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thanks for taking the time to reply qgil
Originally Posted by qgil
that's the day we're all waiting for!
One day Maemo 5 final will be launched with a device
Gtk will be only community-supported like, for example, is Python support now. This doesn't mean you cannot use it to develop something interesting, look for example the grat job is doing that guy with gPodder or the Canola team.
I personally do prefear Qt toolkit, but it's just my own opinion, and I'm very happy about this switch.
I think that the next N*** will be a good product
Well I cannot be sure about this, but.... I trust them