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| The Following 34 Users Say Thank You to Stskeeps For This Useful Post: | ||
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2009-02-01
, 19:20
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Posts: 4,783 |
Thanked: 1,253 times |
Joined on Aug 2007
@ norway
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#2
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nice, i think i may give it a spin in a VM.
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2009-02-01
, 19:30
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Posts: 2,853 |
Thanked: 968 times |
Joined on Nov 2005
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#3
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New skin for the old ceremony... err, no sorry : new life for my old 770 ? :-)
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2009-02-01
, 21:55
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Posts: 1,513 |
Thanked: 2,248 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ US
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#4
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Originally Posted by Stskeeps
First of all, thanks Stskeeps for all of your work on Mer and for the work of all of the people you mentioned. This is a wonderful thing you are doing for the community. I am not a SW guy, but I will try to provide input to help.
Together with this 0.7 release we would like to ask the members of this forum a question, since we will be bringing Fremantle components to the N8x0(W), 770 devices. There are quite interesting discussions with Nokia going on about being able to provide community firmware images through maemo.org to Nokia tablet users, which could include closed source applications, drivers, etc. (see http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Community...e_distribution). Associated with that we have to provide a list of what packages/applications, bits and pieces of Diablo we would like to distribute as part of these images, for legal discussion.
We would then like to ask you users, what you would expect as part of these future firmware images, and to write why these ought to be part of the community firmware images - why are they important for you to have on your tablet.
Please restrict yourself to the closed source components as part of your answers. If you know of a proper open source replacement for a closed source component, you are welcome to write these as well so we can consider these for inclusion in the standard images. If they are OK to just to be downloadable through the Application Manager, note this as well.
I suppose opening Flash and many other things are not at the discretion of Nokia. Hopefully, Nokia can open the few UI elements that are not already open. Referencing but hopefully not repeating the discussion, my main expectation is that a community platform would permit the HW keys on the legacy devices to be used to their full advantage. This includes not only the D-pad; I for one would expect the zoom +/- and fullscreen/switch view keys to continue to work and be available in the software stack. The reason is that it would make it easy for people to develop apps that take advantage of the legacy devices.
Second, this may be tangential but I hope from your Jaiku thread we can take solace that Mer will not use a CC NC or GPLv2 license for the base elements of the platform. The community will benefit if there can be full development of apps.
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2009-02-01
, 22:47
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Posts: 4,930 |
Thanked: 2,272 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
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#5
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Originally Posted by SD69
I don't see any valid reason to exclude GPLv2; to me, that doesn't even make sense. GPLv2 is not a non-commercial license. And a few GPLv2 components don't weaken the protection any GPLv3 sections enjoy, so if v2-only code exists to do something we need, rewriting it seems wasteful.
Second, this may be tangential but I hope from your Jaiku thread we can take solace that Mer will not use a CC NC or GPLv2 license for the base elements of the platform. The community will benefit if there can be full development of apps.
Last edited by Benson; 2009-02-02 at 00:25.
| The Following User Says Thank You to Benson For This Useful Post: | ||
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2009-02-01
, 23:37
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Moderator |
Posts: 7,109 |
Thanked: 8,820 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Vancouver, BC, Canada
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#6
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Congrats on this new release. For me, seeing the localization fixed is a big deal; you are polishing the project to the point where things are looking finished.
As for closed-source components: why don't we start with the assumption that if Nokia or the community doesn't currently provide a sufficient open-source alternative, we're going to need the closed-source component? By "sufficient" I mean a replacement that does everything that the closed-source component does, even if the interface is a bit clunky or something. The Flash player, for example, really doesn't have an alternative at the moment. The open source alternatives (gnash, swfdec, etc) just aren't fast enough for the tablet processor (at least not from my tests).
As for closed-source components: why don't we start with the assumption that if Nokia or the community doesn't currently provide a sufficient open-source alternative, we're going to need the closed-source component? By "sufficient" I mean a replacement that does everything that the closed-source component does, even if the interface is a bit clunky or something. The Flash player, for example, really doesn't have an alternative at the moment. The open source alternatives (gnash, swfdec, etc) just aren't fast enough for the tablet processor (at least not from my tests).
__________________
qole.org --- twitter --- Easy Debian wiki page
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qole.org --- twitter --- Easy Debian wiki page
Please don't send me a private message, post to the appropriate thread.
Thank you all for your donations!
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2009-02-02
, 07:14
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Posts: 1,671 |
Thanked: 11,478 times |
Joined on Jun 2008
@ Warsaw, Poland
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#7
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Two fixes - installer was built with a stupid libc6 dependancy, and 770 image was not complete.
770 image md5sum: 4293d50c69df172e02195f138d3fde69
770 image md5sum: 4293d50c69df172e02195f138d3fde69
__________________
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
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2009-02-02
, 07:28
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Posts: 1,671 |
Thanked: 11,478 times |
Joined on Jun 2008
@ Warsaw, Poland
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#8
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Originally Posted by SD69
Two things here - the discussion is not about open sourcing Nokia closed source items. The discussion is about being able to create community images (based on our recipe!) containing these proprietary bits and distribute these from maemo.org, and what they should contain.
I suppose opening Flash and many other things are not at the discretion of Nokia. Hopefully, Nokia can open the few UI elements that are not already open.
We cannot expect everything handed to us with source and everything, but Nokia is doing something unprecedented in mobile devices, which they should be applauded for - they're inviting the community to actively remix the OS running on their hardware and are working with the community to provide legal framework and ability to distribute the remixes from maemo.org when they are produced.
Originally Posted by SD69
The discussion only dealt with licenses that prohibit commercial usage of the software - there are GPLv2 licensed materials in Ubuntu - and my own personal scripts are BSD-licensed. The point about GPLv3 was that the mere existence of GPLv3 licensed materials in the base system makes sure Mer will be used in open devices (Tivoization protection), living up to the motto of open device open platform (which Nokia tablets are) in contrast to let's say, T-Mobile G1, which is closed device open platform.
Second, this may be tangential but I hope from your Jaiku thread we can take solace that Mer will not use a CC NC or GPLv2 license for the base elements of the platform. The community will benefit if there can be full development of apps.
So, to get discussion back on track:
I'll be missing word completion (HIM), Skype and ICD (operator wizard) - those are the closed source bits I use the most and find most valuable, and they are very hard to find direct open source replacements for.
__________________
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
Last edited by Stskeeps; 2009-02-02 at 08:34.
| The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Stskeeps For This Useful Post: | ||
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2009-02-02
, 08:41
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Posts: 607 |
Thanked: 296 times |
Joined on Jun 2008
@ Finland
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#9
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Originally Posted by Stskeeps
Well, skype cannot be included it firmware, and i don't think that would be very smart anyway, but is there is only duplicate files with gstreamer packages in the way to install skype from nokias certified or non-certified repo.
I'll be missing word completion (HIM), Skype and ICD (operator wizard) - those are the closed source bits I use the most and find most valuable, and they are very hard to find direct open source replacements for.
__________________
Touch Book .. do not waste you money on it.
Touch Book .. do not waste you money on it.
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2009-02-02
, 13:27
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Posts: 1,513 |
Thanked: 2,248 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ US
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#10
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Two things here - the discussion is not about open sourcing Nokia closed source items. The discussion is about being able to create community images (based on our recipe!) containing these proprietary bits and distribute these from maemo.org, and what they should contain.
We cannot expect everything handed to us with source and everything, but Nokia is doing something unprecedented in mobile devices, which they should be applauded for - they're inviting the community to actively remix the OS running on their hardware and are working with the community to provide legal framework and ability to distribute the remixes from maemo.org when they are produced.
The discussion only dealt with licenses that prohibit commercial usage of the software - there are GPLv2 licensed materials in Ubuntu - and my own personal scripts are BSD-licensed. The point about GPLv3 was that the mere existence of GPLv3 licensed materials in the base system makes sure Mer will be used in open devices (Tivoization protection), living up to the motto of open device open platform (which Nokia tablets are) in contrast to let's say, T-Mobile G1, which is closed device open platform.
I don't mean to take the topic to something you don't want to discuss and if you instead want to focus on the nuts and bots. Thanks again for all your work.
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All times are GMT. The time now is 08:59.
Information about Mer can be found at http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer and release information and released files on http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Releases/0.7. It also has a list of known issues so please read them through first before installing. If the pages show white, force reload (temporary problem).
If you own a N8x0(W), use the installer mentioned here. 770 instructions here
Next release is 15th February 2009 (0.8).
Highlights of this release:
* Now with working osso-xterm
* Hildon application manager & control panel
* Now with zipped VMDK image (approx 183mb) so you can run Mer both in VirtualBox and VMware and other VMDK-supporting virtual machine software. You can use this to try out Mer on your x86 or even develop applications for Mer.
* 770 support (thanks to RST38h for spotting an unaligned data access in sapwood)
* Clipboard support and improved first boot wizard
* Python bindings for hildon, GTK, etc
* Droid Sans fonts in use in theme
* Better N8x0 installer and .install file to make it easier to install
* Proper localization strings (Now Home instead of home_ap_home_view)
* Gnome-keyring is now pacified and not bothering you when connecting to WiFi networks.
* An error is showed if incompatible bootmenu is used.
Mer is still a work in progress and as such you should not expect too much of it - feel free to join and help us out if you think something is missing
Thanks to the people involved in the sprint 0.7 that has lead to this release: b-man, wazd, zenvoid, Jaffa, johnx, DarkenCZ, qwerty12, RST38h, r2d2rogers, Meizirkki & thopiekar and others who contributed but not mentioned here - and thanks to Maemo SW for the updated Fremantle components in Fremantle pre-alpha2 SDK.
If you would like to participate, read through http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/People and http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Sprints and see if there's anything you can help out with. We're on #maemo (or #mer) on FreeNode, IRC, if you'd like to hang out and discuss.
--
Together with this 0.7 release we would like to ask the members of this forum a question, since we will be bringing Fremantle components to the N8x0(W), 770 devices. There are quite interesting discussions with Nokia going on about being able to provide community firmware images through maemo.org to Nokia tablet users, which could include closed source applications, drivers, etc. (see http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Community...e_distribution). Associated with that we have to provide a list of what packages/applications, bits and pieces of Diablo we would like to distribute as part of these images, for legal discussion.
We would then like to ask you users, what you would expect as part of these future firmware images, and to write why these ought to be part of the community firmware images - why are they important for you to have on your tablet.
Please restrict yourself to the closed source components as part of your answers. If you know of a proper open source replacement for a closed source component, you are welcome to write these as well so we can consider these for inclusion in the standard images. If they are OK to just to be downloadable through the Application Manager, note this as well.
--
Obligatory screenshots:
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
Last edited by Stskeeps; 2009-02-02 at 14:21. Reason: Added link to 770 instructions