Reply
Thread Tools
Posts: 53 | Thanked: 49 times | Joined on Jun 2007
#1
Nokia has few applications under open source licence such as Modest and application manager. Now, as case with Modest by the time of creation of this text, there are a few critical bugs/issues which affect a large amount of people. The fix is available in the source code but updated version of the package is not released until Nokia releases a full update. The lead time could be couple of months and the release times are never annouced beforehand.

Due to the delay, many active people notice the same bugs and go to bugzilla. Sometimes they do notice the existing report and write their own - this causes many duplicated bug reports to appear. A lot of effort is wasted thereby with the delayed bugfix release and redundant work. Delays and redundant work creates frustration. Additionally, the software may be unusable for many months when it could be fixed now. Talented individual frustrated enough might roll up their own update, but if 10 people do it for themselves this is clearly again a lot more wasted effort and time.

Delay is therefore bad for user experience and can make the whole device look bad in the eye of frustrated people. This is definitely a lost position for marketing efforts when fast bugfix releases would be a positive element for consumer mind.
http://maemo.org/community/brainstor..._packages-002/

Check brainstorm and discuss here..

Last edited by chemist; 2010-01-12 at 01:03. Reason: Title Change
 

The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to VRe For This Useful Post:
Soheil's Avatar
Posts: 23 | Thanked: 8 times | Joined on Nov 2009 @ Mumbai, India
#2
Agree. But any idea how long did it take for the full release of 41 to .42 to go public?
 
ARJWright's Avatar
Posts: 857 | Thanked: 701 times | Joined on Jan 2008 @ Nomadic
#3
There are two sides of Nokia releasing an update to included software that should be considered:

One side that's probably not considered often here is that even though Nokia is using open source software the business processes might not be as open and so hence the delay.

Nokia isn't a small shop; there are governance and logistical dependencies on every decision. Some of these are good, some of these impeed such fixes.

Concerning updates on included software, the questions that have to be asked include:
- does the update address something that has no dependency on locale/carrier included parameters with an object?
- is the update a major or minor fix?

If its major and has no dependency, then the business process needs to adjust to allowing for updates to come out faster. This endears those outside to Nokia in that it more closely follows open source foundations which may not have as many layers.

If its minor and has no dependency. Release it. No questions asked.

If it has a dependency, how can Nokia communicate their process effectively without damaging stakeholder relationships?
- Maemo as a commnuity needs to help enable Nokia to be able ot answer this question.
 

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ARJWright For This Useful Post:
Posts: 53 | Thanked: 49 times | Joined on Jun 2007
#4
Originally Posted by ARJWright View Post
One side that's probably not considered often here is that even though Nokia is using open source software the business processes might not be as open and so hence the delay.
I atleast though of the business process and I think it is exactly the problem. It does not need to be open, it needs speed. It just between 2005 and 2009 there has been already many years.

Originally Posted by ARJWright View Post
Concerning updates on included software, the questions that have to be asked include:
- does the update address something that has no dependency on locale/carrier included parameters with an object?
If it has a dependency, how can Nokia communicate their process effectively without damaging stakeholder relationships?
- Maemo as a commnuity needs to help enable Nokia to be able ot answer this question.
Funky, there were no operators involved before, so is this going to get even worse ? .. I don't know what the process involves now but it shouldn't be much more complicated than: check it fixes the bug, check that old bugs do not appear, check it does not create new bugs, update docs, update i18n if necessary, release. A bugfix diminishes liabilities too, so lawyers are not needed and they will be sad!

I would be content with at promise that a fix in the version control would be released as bugfix release in 5 days, in 10 for issue with dependencies. Just make it (tm) happen - figure out why it is not happening and then fix the process. If somebody would go and measure the current fix-to-release process and check the lead times between "processing" stages, I sure they would find out that the fixes are just waiting "in storage" 99% of the time. That is waste(d time).

Last edited by VRe; 2009-12-03 at 22:17.
 
ARJWright's Avatar
Posts: 857 | Thanked: 701 times | Joined on Jan 2008 @ Nomadic
#5
VRe, if Nokia/Maemo hired me, process improvement would be the exact area that I'd be working in.
 
Posts: 53 | Thanked: 49 times | Joined on Jun 2007
#6
Why there is such a monolithic release system in place? Release when everything is tested, all has to be ready or nothing is given?

Nokia has done updates for phones and older tablets the same way. When you think how a phone was flashed to newest firmware in a backroom of a store, it is easy to understand the value of complete monolithic update package. You're not going to the shop every day or week. Now the usecase is different as we use OTA updates - there is no backroom and therefore monolithic update release is the way of the past days. Full images can still be made for those store rooms if necessary..

As community we should encourage Nokia to do something which would make them really shine!

See: http://maemo.org/community/brainstor..._packages-002/
 
ARJWright's Avatar
Posts: 857 | Thanked: 701 times | Joined on Jan 2008 @ Nomadic
#7
Originally Posted by VRe View Post
Why there is such a monolithic release system in place? Release when everything is tested, all has to be ready or nothing is given?

Nokia has done updates for phones and older tablets the same way. When you think how a phone was flashed to newest firmware in a backroom of a store, it is easy to understand the value of complete monolithic update package. You're not going to the shop every day or week. Now the usecase is different as we use OTA updates - there is no backroom and therefore monolithic update release is the way of the past days. Full images can still be made for those store rooms if necessary..

As community we should encourage Nokia to do something which would make them really shine!

See: http://maemo.org/community/brainstor..._packages-002/
Nokia has never released without a *lot* of testing. What Maemo is experiencing is what happens when a large company is involved as the driver behind fixes.

Of course, this is an open source movement, nothing is stopping anyone from crafting fixes for everything that's not IP-locked within the platform.
 

The Following User Says Thank You to ARJWright For This Useful Post:
evad's Avatar
Posts: 354 | Thanked: 150 times | Joined on Mar 2008 @ London (UK) / Zielona Góra (PL)
#8
As an additional note to this discussion/brainstorm is that it'd be actually very helpful for everyone if Nokia would "officially" communicate to Maemo Community Council (hence to all of us) what is on their current development plate, ergo what's their platform development roadmap for near'ish future - but in quite low, single feature-wise level.

So, apart from bugfixes which are more-or-less traced via Bugzilla, it would be nice to know that "we are working on feature XYZ, we can't give you exact release date, but please stay tuned". That way end-users would know what to expect in future - but also that scenario would be very helpful for developers that are planning to develop (or already started developing) apps designed to cover these feature gaps.

I know that's just wishful thinking and we'll probably never going to see such communication in place, but I generally think that's a grand idea to consider.
__________________
Dawid 'evad' Lorenz * http://dawid.lorenz.co
_______________________________________________
 

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to evad For This Useful Post:
Jaffa's Avatar
Posts: 2,531 | Thanked: 6,638 times | Joined on Mar 2008 @ UK
#9
Originally Posted by evad View Post
As an additional note to this discussion/brainstorm is that it'd be actually very helpful for everyone if Nokia would "officially" communicate to Maemo Community Council (hence to all of us) what is on their current development plate, [...]
I won't comment on whether or not I think that's feasible, but I was going to say that posting such a request in an existing thread is probably not the best way to do it (except Texrat has Thanksed a couple of posts here already).

I'd suggest, in future, an email to council@maemo.org, pointing to appropriate threads and posts here.
__________________
Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org
 

The Following User Says Thank You to Jaffa For This Useful Post:
evad's Avatar
Posts: 354 | Thanked: 150 times | Joined on Mar 2008 @ London (UK) / Zielona Góra (PL)
#10
Originally Posted by Jaffa View Post
I won't comment on whether or not I think that's feasible, but I was going to say that posting such a request in an existing thread is probably not the best way to do it (except Texrat has Thanksed a couple of posts here already).

I'd suggest, in future, an email to council@maemo.org, pointing to appropriate threads and posts here.
I was actually thinking to set this up as a separate proposal in Brainstorm, however I haven't yet checked whether similar idea has been already posted, as I don't want to create pointless duplicates.

Anyhow, thanks for suggestion to point this topic out to council email directly. Should I do that or have you communicated it to council already by any chance?
__________________
Dawid 'evad' Lorenz * http://dawid.lorenz.co
_______________________________________________
 
Reply

Thread Tools

 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:46.