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#111
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
attila77, Milhouse, you are serious guys and you will understand this quickly: Harmattan and MeeGo come with a whole Qt based application and UI framework and a Qt style API. Maemo 5 is a different story, with a GTK+ based applications and UI framework and GNOME style API.
You're misunderstanding me - technically, I understand why one would label Harmattan MeeGo (despite the deb/rpm issue, potential API differences, etc). I was referring to the branding confusion which is replacing one brand with another that is of a much broader scope.

EDIT: Let me give an example. Take Ubuntu. Ubuntu is a brand, but left a room for subbranding to avoid confusion - KUbuntu, XUbuntu, Edubuntu, Ubuntu Network Remix are all Ubuntu, but with clear and known 'local' differences. Where's this in MeeGo ? The netbook UX MeeGo is MeeGo. The handheld UX MeeGo (i.e. Harmattan) is MeeGo, the deb based MeeGo is MeeGo, the rpm based MeeGo is MeeGo... I hope it's more clear what I find lacking in this nomenclature
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Last edited by attila77; 2010-02-18 at 12:47.
 

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#112
Originally Posted by Milhouse View Post
I'm not that bothered about which package manager is used, I've got no allegiance to either, it's just that switching from DEB to RPM will have repercussions eventually unless the N900/M5 can somehow be updated with RPM support in which case this all becomes a moot point.
Exactly! If only Nokia would've said that n900 will be upgradable to MeeGo, all these discussions would be over in an instant.
 

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#113
Originally Posted by ColdFusion View Post
Exactly! If only Nokia would've said that n900 will be upgradable to MeeGo, all these discussions would be over in an instant.
Whether it's full MeeGo or not on N900, the biggest issue now (in my mind) is the complete change of package management system.

If MeeGo had never happened and the N900 stayed on M5 but remained API and package manager compatible with future Maemo releases, it wouldn't be so bad - the N900 would continue to get most apps, and developers would only need to support one DEB package management system (or two, including Symbian).

Now with MeeGo, apps will be distributed as RPMs. Not all apps will be developed for Nokia devices as developers may be targeting x86 netbooks running MeeGo, but their apps could be packaged for ARM/MeeGo as an RPM, and they might do it as it's largely a no brainer (in theory) and massively increases their market for next to nothing.

But continued DEB support, particularly from developers not principally targeting Nokia devices? Forget it, it's a dead market so best to let it die than keep it on life support.

RPM support for the N900 is essential, one way or another.
 

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#114
Pardon the noob knowledge/understanding on packaging, but isn't the fact of whether the Qt APIs are packaged with DEB or RPM determined by the IDE used? And isn't all dev being funneled through Qt Creator? So why would the packaging be a problem - except for those that like to "package by hand" (which is what I'm guessing happens more often than not because the tool(s) aren't up to snuff)?
 
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#115
Originally Posted by ARJWright View Post
Pardon the noob knowledge/understanding on packaging, but isn't the fact of whether the Qt APIs are packaged with DEB or RPM determined by the IDE used? And isn't all dev being funneled through Qt Creator? So why would the packaging be a problem - except for those that like to "package by hand" (which is what I'm guessing happens more often than not because the tool(s) aren't up to snuff)?
Another package format means more deployment testing. It increases the chance of an application c0cking up a device or the application failing to install. This means more work and puts more responsibility on the developer - easiest solution is not to support DEB.

DEB then becomes a legacy packaging format that everyone will want to forget as soon as possible. Developers that only have access to a new MeeGo device and with no access to an N900 won't create DEBs, just RPMs. N900 development declines.

Maemo5 can be 100% compatible with MeeGo at the Qt API level, but while it uses an incompatible package manager I think the number of MeeGo apps that are made available for Maemo5 will be much lower than might be otherwise be expected.

I'm not suggesting that DEB should be continued as I fully accept RPM is now the future, just that for the N900 to remain relevant it would be better if it could somehow acquire RPM support (how that happens I have no idea - the obvious solution would be to port RPM-based MeeGo to the N900, though there may be other options).
 

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#116
Originally Posted by whc View Post
Great video about it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXK9XFolwTM
thanks for the video.

so:

portrait mode is coming

maemo 6 wont be canceled and is coming too

I doubt nokia will make another maemo device they may move onto meego ones. so maemo 6 is made dedicate for n900. nice.

Last edited by toto29820; 2010-02-18 at 15:45.
 

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#117
Originally Posted by Tintin View Post
The only confusing part here is why this Nokia-drone comes on here and is 'asking' to have the forum changed.
Please do not refer to Quim as a Nokia drone. He is flesh and blood and a friend of mine. We may disagree with him but we owe him the same respect he shows us.
 

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#118
This is a long thread and some of it is a bit too technical for me, even though I am an engineer and could probably try to figure out what N900 owners can expect. However, i will say this:

If Nokia decides to abandon Maemo as an OS open source project and go head first into MeeGo with no Maemo 5 compatibility or feasible upgrade, simply put I am never going back to Nokia and I have been a very loyal customer in the past.

They marketed the N900 as a powerhouse mobile computer with infinite possibilities because of Maemo's open source, but if they are ignorant and discourage developers from making new applications and are now only compatable with Maemo6/MeeGo, they have basically fooled us all into buying an N900 as we would be the only ones with Maemo 5 and this community will shrink over a short period of time while all we can do is watch as other OS' blossom.

I understand that I haven't looked into recent news or go in depth into the technical compatibility possibilities, but regardless, at the end of the day, it comes down to whether Nokia makes a dick move based their newer more economical-potential agenda, or a move that tells the world that they truly value their customers

Last edited by excelar8; 2010-03-02 at 22:10.
 
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#119
Originally Posted by excelar8 View Post
This is a long thread and some of it is a bit too technical for me, even though I am an engineer and could probably try to figure out what N900 owners can expect. However, i will say this:

If Nokia decides to abandon Maemo as an OS open source project and go head first into MeeGo with no Maemo 5 compatibility or feasible upgrade, simply put I am never going back to Nokia and I have been a very loyal customer in the past.

They marketed the N900 as a powerhouse mobile computer with infinite possibilities because of Maemo's open source, but if they are ignorant and discourage developers from making new applications and are now only compatable with Maemo6/MeeGo, they have basically fooled us all into buying an N900 as we would be the only ones with Maemo 5 and this community will shrink over a short period of time while all we can do is watch as other OS' blossom.

I understand that I haven't looked into recent news or go in depth into the technical compatibility possibilities, but regardless, at the end of the day, it comes down to whether Nokia makes a dick move based their newer more economical-potential agenda, or a move that tells the world that they truly value their customers
I don't get that at all. I do see a lot of talk about "abandonment", and being treated poorly by the Big Bad Company, being used as a Guinea pig, etc.on these boards lately. After hearing that bell being rung for so long I can see how it could affect attitudes.

I still don't understand where these issues come from with regard to Nokia. Is it from past behavior? Windows Mobile? yes; Palm? yes; first gen iPhone? maybe; Nokia? not so much.
So I suspect much of this separation anxiety and the abandonment issues we are seeing are based on experiences with other companies.

When OS2007 became available for the N800, 770 owners also felt abandoned. However, Nokia came through and offered through this community, an HE version that ran on the different hardware found on the 770.

It was not "officially" supported by Nokia, but it was still made available. I believe the same thing will occur with Harmattan/Maemo6/Meego IF, for whatever reason Nokia decides not to "officialy" support the N900 with the new OS.

I bought an N800 over 3 years ago and still use it for hacking. My N810 (which was only bought because I got such a great deal) is in my car and I use it everyday. In some ways it is more useful to me then my N900. If I hadn't bought the N810, I would be using the N800 with BT GPS daily in my car instead.

To me^ that's a pretty good deal. The iPAQ I purchased 1 1/2 years before I first heard about the N800 and Nokia Internet Tablets was obsolete in 8 months and it cost $60 more than the N800. A TomTom Navigator I bought for my wife two holiday seasons ago has already gone through 3 OS generations that hers can't run... but they still want to sell us map updates.

So Nokia, Maemo, and this community have been pretty good to me.
...but enough about me, back to the topic at hand.

Maemo5 and the N900 will run QT. QT apps developed for Meego will run on the N900 after a recompile. Ergo, more apps will be available for the N900 and from other sources than if Maemo6 was developed for only the N900 and its successors.

As a bonus! MeeGo will be more open than Maemo ever was. If better telephony, contact management, and other core apps are developed for it, these too have a better chance of being back ported to the N900. A much better chance than core apps developed for an exclusive Maemo6 device or any other "in house" successor if that was the path taken by Nokia.

I do have issues with Nokia marketing in that they targeted phone bloggers early on. For many of these bloggers this was their first exposure to Maemo.
People interested in phones read phone blogs. Many of the unreasonable expectations we see may have come from these blogger's enthusiasm over yet another "phone" loaned to them by Nokia.

As far as abandonment or disregard for the Maemo community by Nokia, I have not seen it in my 3+ years using a Maemo device

...and I don't think your mileage will vary.
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Last edited by YoDude; 2010-03-03 at 02:51.
 

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#120
This thread is simply about the fact that Nokia has deprecated the name of "Maemo 6" in favor of MeeGo and Harmattan.

If you want to know about the future of the N900 the most official and accurate answers can be found at the 'Cleaning N900 FUD' thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=46187
 

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branding, buying nokia devices, buying non-nokia devices, intel is stinky, intel rocks, maemo, maemo 6, meego, meego versions, moblin, nokia, see tintin go bye-bye, sm - go back into hiding

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