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Posts: 79 | Thanked: 21 times | Joined on Sep 2007
#1
What is the envisioned route for building / managing third-party libraries when developing with madde?
  • install binary deb packages from the repositories (if available)? This again introduces dependency on a Debian based host environment because madde itself doesn't seem to offer a patched/reimplemented dpkg tool for installing into the sysroot.
  • build them on your own? Is madde prepared to install packages to the right location by default? Manual customization needed? This may lead to version inconsistencies with the repository packages

I would really appreciate a way to sync the sysroot to the official SDK packages, preferably without the need to be running madde on a Debian based linux.

How is madde going to integrate with MeeGo style OBS building?

If there is a paper about all this, please point me to it. The madde docs i found are very sparse.

Tilman
 
Posts: 198 | Thanked: 76 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#2
i don't really understand how one could create a development environment w/o considering the need of external libs (yes, Qt is great but it doesn't cover everything).

so far it looks to me, the way to go would be:
- get debian's armel packages for the libs needed, convert them to tar balls with alien and install them somehow
- play around with links, global variables (like LD_LIBRARY_PATH, CFLAGS, ...) and flags like -I or -L

i did not yet go this route, since i got hold of an old laptop which i try to convert in some kind of compiling station (since scratchbox and sdk are not available for 64bit).

all together i really doubt, nokia wants people to develop for maemo at all -- delivering 32bit only, a bunch of chroots, different tools, little up to date software (try to install a recent automake in scratchbox), everything mixed up and hardly documented ...

installing all necessary stuff on the n900 itself should be possible -- theoretically.
but with that crappy busybox and crippled debian i doubt it would really work w/o breaking half of the devices functionality.

why had they to reinvent the wheel and why so badly?
 
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Posts: 670 | Thanked: 356 times | Joined on May 2007
#3
Originally Posted by arne.anka View Post
why had they to reinvent the wheel and why so badly?
I think that they've put the Meego train in motion hoping it will have rounder wheels than the ones on the Maemo train.
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Posts: 1,341 | Thanked: 695 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#4
Yes, Maemo is much FUBAR. Too many head cooks. Not enough LSB and freedesktop.org standards obeyed.

Let's hope with a clean start with Meego will get things right.
 
Posts: 3 | Thanked: 4 times | Joined on Dec 2009 @ Linköping, Sweden
#5
Originally Posted by arne.anka View Post
i did not yet go this route, since i got hold of an old laptop which i try to convert in some kind of compiling station (since scratchbox and sdk are not available for 64bit).
I run the SDK just fine on my 64bit Debian install. Maybe you have to install some 32bit libs on your 64bit system to get it working (32bit libs are in the Debian repos).

As for the question in the OP, just use the SDK instead. MADDE doesn't seem to be very suitable for anything but simple prjects without external dependencies as far as I can tell. At least for now.

Last edited by ChristofferC; 2010-03-30 at 08:51.
 
Posts: 79 | Thanked: 21 times | Joined on Sep 2007
#6
Originally Posted by ChristofferC View Post
I run the SDK just fine on my 64bit Debian install. Maybe you have to install some 32bit libs on your 64bit system to get it working (32bit libs are in the Debian repos).
As for the question in the OP, just use the SDK instead. MADDE
Yes, me too (on openSUSE 11.2).

Originally Posted by ChristofferC View Post
As for the question in the OP, just use the SDK instead. MADDE doesn't seem to be very suitable for anything but simple prjects without external dependencies as far as I can tell. At least for now.
Right, and that's why I'd like to get in touch with other MADDE users also with the MADDE developers in order to understand whether this will go into the right direction at all.

Tilman
 
Posts: 198 | Thanked: 76 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#7
Originally Posted by fnordianslip View Post
I think that they've put the Meego train in motion hoping it will have rounder wheels than the ones on the Maemo train.
well, i doubt it.
with maemo they had the opportunity to use a stable well working distribution, debian, and yet they chose to make the worst of it.
now, with meego, as far as i understand, the whole reinventing the wheel starts over again -- and surely they will make all the errors again other distributions made long ago.

heavy case of "not invented here" syndrome.
 
Posts: 198 | Thanked: 76 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#8
Originally Posted by ChristofferC View Post
I run the SDK just fine on my 64bit Debian install. Maybe you have to install some 32bit libs on your 64bit system to get it working (32bit libs are in the Debian repos).
a tad out of scope of this thread -- but did you try to build eg navit?
i am stuck with several errors in the sdk (tools too old and stuff) and don't really see how to solve that.
 
Posts: 62 | Thanked: 97 times | Joined on Dec 2009 @ Finland, Kerava
#9
Originally Posted by tvogel View Post
What is the envisioned route for building / managing third-party libraries when developing with madde?
  • install binary deb packages from the repositories (if available)? This again introduces dependency on a Debian based host environment because madde itself doesn't seem to offer a patched/reimplemented dpkg tool for installing into the sysroot.
  • build them on your own? Is madde prepared to install packages to the right location by default? Manual customization needed? This may lead to version inconsistencies with the repository packages
Second bullet is only way right now, with using GCC -I and -L options.
We have thought different solutions for the problem but have not
know good solution yet. If some one have ideas that work in Mac, WIndows and Linux, share those with us, please.


How is madde going to integrate with MeeGo style OBS building?
No one knows yet. Or at least MADDE development team members don't know. MADDE develepment team is very small, I and two other people.

If there is a paper about all this, please point me to it. The madde docs i found are very sparse.

Tilman
There is no paper available.
 
Posts: 198 | Thanked: 76 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#10
Originally Posted by rontti View Post
We have thought different solutions for the problem but have not
know good solution yet. If some one have ideas that work in Mac, WIndows and Linux, share those with us, please.
i might confuse that with scratchbox, but doesn't MADDE too download tarballs and extracts them into the chroots?
and, basically everything needed should exist in maemo repositories (libs, headers, devel-packages)**.
lastly, the pathes to libs and headers should be directories below the chroots.

thus: what about a script that allows downloading devel packages and libs, converts them to tarballs (either with alien or with ar, since debian packages are nothing but ar archives containing data.tar.gz which is the actual archive we need here) and extracts them into the matching folders? as long as the folders follow the structure maemo uses simply extracting them below a certain folder should be sufficient.

since the apt stuff is mostly perl, the scripts needed to calculate dependencies should be available cross platform and maybe easily adapted to these limited needs.

** after playing around with scratchbox i see that nokia makes a huge secret of their packages (you have to accept some eula, get a number and scratchbox creates an apt line with a lengthy checksum as url part).
not sure how important those packages are and if they would be available to MADDE (is MADDE a nokia project after all?).
still confirms my opinion nokia doesn't like development for maemo.
 
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