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Estel's Avatar
Posts: 4,750 | Thanked: 7,748 times | Joined on Mar 2011
#181
Guys, are you all serious? We're talking about electing community representatives, or forging election farse, by some combination, which variation of fake-votes and fake-candidates will result in most desirable output?

Seriously, last two pages here would even offend Belorussian and Chinese standards on democracy. I can't believe, what I'm seeing here.

/Estel
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#182
You may be right (and I really like your first post without any direct offences in this context), but we have to play according to current rules.
And it is not a government we "vote for", but a few people acting as "gateway"/volunteers.
Even more: imagine Chinese/Belorussians/former GDRs would have (had) the chance to nominate freely for governement and get voted ...
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#183
Originally Posted by misterc View Post
i don't agree with your "completely separate body" opinion.
communication between the two organs is going to be an issue; in order to avoid having a "left hand doesn't know what right hand does (decided, published, whatever...)" it is required to have exchange. the worst is to have each reading the meeting minutes of the other.
the next best thing is a member of the other attending meetings; certainly an improvement, but this leaves the "exchange" limited to meetings.
if one person is in both organs, the flow of information is optimal, as the person will always have the most recent status of both sides.

in fact, if both are going to remain, maybe such a duality should be institutionalised?
Of course this is a really valid point of view, let's see how it works in practice.
 

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Community Council | Posts: 1,752 | Thanked: 9,389 times | Joined on Mar 2010 @ SOL 3
#184
council been 'invented' to play the ambassador role between Nokia and community.
now that community elects the board as successor of Nokia, for all that's community (resources) related, I don't see where's the use to have an ambassador to negotiate between interest of community and interests of board, since, well, if board's interests are not community's interests then something went teribly wrong in election of board, no?

/j
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#185
Originally Posted by joerg_rw View Post
council been 'invented' to play the ambassador role between Nokia and community.
now that community elects the board as successor of Nokia, for all that's community (resources) related, I don't see where's the use to have an ambassador to negotiate between interest of community and interests of board, since, well, if board's interests are not community's interests then something went teribly wrong in election of board, no?

/j
Council will help in acting as a counter-balance on the Board...Although unlikely there is always a possibility of the Board not exactly acting in the interests of the community-at-large hence the Council will help in keeping them on their toes...

Oh and this doesn't count the day-to-day things the Council will be required for like canvassing community opinion on matters etc...

Last edited by thedead1440; 11-04-2012 at 07:33 AM.
 

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#186
Originally Posted by thedead1440 View Post
Council will help in acting as a counter-balance on the Board...Although unlikely there is always a possibility of the Board not exactly acting in the interests of the community-at-large hence the Council will help in keeping them on their toes...

Oh and this doesn't count the day-to-day things the Council will be required for like canvassing community opinion on matters etc...
It seems to me that the risk of council being derailed regarding proper representation of community is about equally high as for board.

Going through the points at http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council#Council_work I see really few (maybe 1 or max 2) that aren't already either absolutely obsolete (device program, sponsorship of anual events) or done by board rather than council anyway (hiring stuff), and those max 2 points *could* as well get done by board - no need to have a council in parallel to the board entity, with all the overhead already mentioned this will introduce.

I'm not saying council is useless or obsolete per se, I just wonder if it's worth the effort to have two entities. The suggested control function over board is moot anyway in my book. Anyway that's just my take on that, and it's up to community to decide. I just think that in times where we have trouble to find 5 volunteers for one entity, it's maybe not really helpful to have two entites to populate and then see both fail due to lack of candidates.

/j
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Last edited by joerg_rw; 11-04-2012 at 08:04 AM.
 

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#187
I agree with you mainly...

What I feel is that maybe for the next few months at least while we are transiting, we should have both the Board and Council; once things are settled down this can be brought up for debate with maybe the Board being expanded and the Council dissolved...

Yes we have had difficulty in getting candidates but its not too hard to see why considering the troubles the last Council had to go due to various reasons. Not many people in their right minds would want to put themselves through all that IMO especially when coupled together with the uncertain future ahead...
 

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#188
Originally Posted by joerg_rw View Post
It seems to me that the risk of council being derailed regarding proper representation of community is about equally high as for board
I get and understand everything everyone has said here. But this horse is not only dead, but has now been beaten into a fine purée, here, in Council, on IRC, and several other places.

The community is in a state of transition. No one knows for sure where things are going to go. Rather then try to predict the future, the outgoing Council choose to let this ride for one more term. That way, as a community we can see how everything looks if/when we're on the other side of the mirror in 3 to 6 months, and make an educated choice instead of a wild guess.

For now, I see Council and the Board working jointly on several things, and separately on a few key items that Council can't work on for legal reasons. By the time the community has to deal with this again we'll be at least 3 months in, and will have a much clearer idea of where things are, what's going on, and what the community needs.

Right now, things look good to me. We have an incoming Council, with active members. We have a Board ready to go, and one overlapping member who's already agreed to try to act as a conduit for the two. In spite of everything that's happened, I think we actually got a pretty nice setup in the end.

Let's focus on the immediate future for now, and leave this detail until January/February, instead of investing precious time and resources on it right this second, when doing so may prevent it from ever mattering, ok?
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