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2015-06-02
, 21:01
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Posts: 1,389 |
Thanked: 1,857 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Israel
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#2
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Originally Posted by szopin
Though i think transparency is the future, i do think that some things should be left private, even though i found out that i was the topic of some discussions. After you can't please everyone and somethings would hijacked by dealing with who said what to whom, after all we are all human and we have some talking behind back and so on. The problem is if it changes the point view of moderator or not. And as it's not and keeps him still most objective as he can, i don't mind of some private "only staff" discussions.
Pulling this out from popcorn thread, as this idea is detested by popcorn companies who try to shut it down by excrementposting it out of sight.
Mod dramas are great, if you like popcorn. When did we have the last change on TMO that concerned transparency/openness? Did we all get it right the first time? If someone imagined the internet today in 1995 would he see an encyclopedia or the clickbait show of today?
Open mod logs are a necessity nowadays. Sure we have the same guys we trust, but why would they oppose change if the world around is changing and this is no longer usenet? Snowden, wikileaks, schneider all show us the internet is no longer innocent place to exchange ideas by academics. In the world of NK/Russian/US/Israeli/(enter your own country here) cyberwars that also include propaganda expecting 'hidden actions by those in power' to follow the unhidden constitution/ruleset is a bit naive. Nothing wrong in having clear and transparent view of the actions of those in power, they are human, if they err we can help them correct their mistakes. If they abuse it and act unlawfully, well.
It's a shame this forum is more stagnant than n900 was under nokia's captainship. Internet of 2008 vs internet of 2015 are quite different and expectations of people seem to also evolve faster than the old rules. Vote for more popcorn or less
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2015-06-02
, 21:07
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Posts: 2,076 |
Thanked: 3,268 times |
Joined on Feb 2011
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#3
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Originally Posted by ZogG
Not mod logs of private emails, mod logs of actions:
Though i think transparency is the future, i do think that some things should be left private, even though i found out that i was the topic of some discussions. After you can't please everyone and somethings would hijacked by dealing with who said what to whom, after all we are all human and we have some talking behind back and so on. The problem is if it changes the point view of moderator or not. And as it's not and keeps him still most objective as he can, i don't mind of some private "only staff" discussions.
x post was deleted for reason y
z was deleted as spam
z was deleted as spam
z was deleted as spam
etc
(the amount of detail is to be discussed, mask the mod names to prevent witch hunts, sure, but also edits should include if they edited russia out of the post, or US, or spain, or finland...)
edit: also added clarification to the first post, this is not about opening inboxes, log of modifications to the forum posts
Last edited by szopin; 2015-06-02 at 21:15.
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2015-06-03
, 08:37
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Posts: 1,808 |
Thanked: 4,272 times |
Joined on Feb 2011
@ Germany
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#4
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@szopin,
I find the suggestion generally good. I would even go as far as modifying the rules here so allow a more realistic and adult environment, where e.g. you can say f*ck. I don't see why the forum should be so patronizing.
As long as spam and other clearly off-topic content is removed (for all I care without a trace) the moderation should be limited to the barely/legally-required minimum *and* be properly identified.
I find the suggestion generally good. I would even go as far as modifying the rules here so allow a more realistic and adult environment, where e.g. you can say f*ck. I don't see why the forum should be so patronizing.
As long as spam and other clearly off-topic content is removed (for all I care without a trace) the moderation should be limited to the barely/legally-required minimum *and* be properly identified.
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2015-06-03
, 15:11
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Administrator |
Posts: 1,036 |
Thanked: 2,019 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ Germany
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#5
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Where is the purpose of deleting things when it is still visible to everyone? Not gonna happen. If you need a reason, how about privacy? Some people try to stay anonymous as possible here and non-public data is considered private data and as long as you do not remove (yes remove) our legal terms (you'd need to move maemo.org to a country where there is legally no private data) you are out of luck.
__________________
useful links for newcomers: New members say hello, New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, FAQ
useful links for newcomers: New members say hello, New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, FAQ
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2015-06-03
, 15:36
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Posts: 6,445 |
Thanked: 20,981 times |
Joined on Sep 2012
@ UK
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#6
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@chemist,
We are not talking about members ' posts that the members later thought better of and deleted. Those are not moderator actions. By moderating members' posts, moderators are already invading their privacy.
All we want is accountability. By agreeing to become a moderator, you agree to become a public figure and should be accountable for your actions. Yes, that includes the king of all moderators.
We are not talking about members ' posts that the members later thought better of and deleted. Those are not moderator actions. By moderating members' posts, moderators are already invading their privacy.
All we want is accountability. By agreeing to become a moderator, you agree to become a public figure and should be accountable for your actions. Yes, that includes the king of all moderators.
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2015-06-03
, 15:47
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Posts: 1,974 |
Thanked: 1,834 times |
Joined on Mar 2013
@ india
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#7
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Report This | #5
Where is the purpose of deleting things when it is still visible to
everyone?
this is so true
Where is the purpose of deleting things when it is still visible to
everyone?
this is so true
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2015-06-03
, 16:21
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Posts: 2,076 |
Thanked: 3,268 times |
Joined on Feb 2011
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#8
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Ok, couple of examples, so it is easier to discuss (didn't think this was such a new/little known idea):
https://8ch.net/log.php?board=n
https://modlog.github.io/#/r/conspiracy
The amount of detail is up for discussion, sure you will not repost child porn to logs, call the police, report IP etc, still a note should be left in logs. Mask IPs by randomly generated ids, or just use account names, mods can be masked to (mod1/mod2...) so people can see when modx goes on a rampage and can complain, admin will know who that is. Plenty of options to consider and not relying on mod remembering to add a note (which is not possible for deleted posts/threads btw)
(and the idea of reposting non-illegal content that was removed to a place like irclogs is good, keeps the thread going (how many OT rants gone missing?), stops link farming as not main site/not a clickable link with markup etc, illegal, sure delete, just leave trace of action taken
https://8ch.net/log.php?board=n
https://modlog.github.io/#/r/conspiracy
The amount of detail is up for discussion, sure you will not repost child porn to logs, call the police, report IP etc, still a note should be left in logs. Mask IPs by randomly generated ids, or just use account names, mods can be masked to (mod1/mod2...) so people can see when modx goes on a rampage and can complain, admin will know who that is. Plenty of options to consider and not relying on mod remembering to add a note (which is not possible for deleted posts/threads btw)
(and the idea of reposting non-illegal content that was removed to a place like irclogs is good, keeps the thread going (how many OT rants gone missing?), stops link farming as not main site/not a clickable link with markup etc, illegal, sure delete, just leave trace of action taken
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2015-06-03
, 16:47
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Posts: 11 |
Thanked: 16 times |
Joined on Jun 2015
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#9
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The idea of setting up modlogs, which report their actions AS MODERATORS while covering the mod's identify through the use of a randomly generated IDs sounds perfect to me. I've been to sites that adopted such system, and the moderators' privacy was never compromised, while this made their actions as moderators transparent, which I believe every community needs.
I fully support this.
I fully support this.
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2015-06-03
, 16:51
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Administrator |
Posts: 1,036 |
Thanked: 2,019 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ Germany
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#10
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I am a public figure... and the forum software does not account to who is editing rather to what has been edited, iirc you cannot delete posts without giving a reason which is as transparent as it gets. It is not a switch I flip and you get a css export of moderations... find a plugin for vBulletin 3 and we can talk about it but I won't write you a filtered and sorted data export to wherever just so you guys have something to ... to and we are talking about <10 moderators to track, we are so small you could just ask the moderator of the subsection to be more transparent...
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useful links for newcomers: New members say hello, New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, FAQ
useful links for newcomers: New members say hello, New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, FAQ
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Mod dramas are great, if you like popcorn. When did we have the last change on TMO that concerned transparency/openness? Did we all get it right the first time? If someone imagined the internet today in 1995 would he see an encyclopedia or the clickbait show of today?
Open mod logs are a necessity nowadays. Sure we have the same guys we trust, but why would they oppose change if the world around is changing and this is no longer usenet? Snowden, wikileaks, schneider all show us the internet is no longer innocent place to exchange ideas by academics. In the world of NK/Russian/US/Israeli/(enter your own country here) cyberwars that also include propaganda expecting 'hidden actions by those in power' to follow the unhidden constitution/ruleset is a bit naive. Nothing wrong in having clear and transparent view of the actions of those in power, they are human, if they err we can help them correct their mistakes. If they abuse it and act unlawfully, well.
It's a shame this forum is more stagnant than n900 was under nokia's captainship. Internet of 2008 vs internet of 2015 are quite different and expectations of people seem to also evolve faster than the old rules. Vote for more popcorn or less
And clarification, this is not about opening mod/admin emails and private messages, this is to reveal what and when was removed/edited/moved, so we can all call the lies out when they happen (just look here this part of your post was actually threatening people with death, criminal offense and this should've been removed, go cry somewhere else)
Last edited by szopin; 2015-06-02 at 21:14.