View Full Version : Is it helpfull for us? Kali Linux now available for download from Microsoft Store
deutch1976
2018-03-06, 09:20
I wonder if it is any good for us
https://mspoweruser.com/kali-linux-now-available-download-microsoft-store/
Why would you think so?
It’s already easy to run Kali in a chroot.
MS is doing wrapping, mapping Linux calls to Windows DLL’s. Great job, but nothing that adds to arm architecture
deutch1976
2018-03-06, 10:08
Why would you think so?
It’s already easy to run Kali in a chroot.
MS is doing wrapping, mapping Linux calls to Windows DLL’s. Great job, but nothing that adds to arm architecture
I don't think so. That is why i end my sentence with an interrogation mark ;)
Not helpful to you, but it exposes a new generation of users to Linux. That taste of freedom might grow into a hunger down the line.
deutch1976
2018-03-06, 17:22
One thing i can assure. Windows 10, with all the latest updates, is way more friendly to all. A few years ago it took me ages to flash my N9 when now is faster
Not helpful to you, but it exposes a new generation of users to Linux. That taste of freedom might grow into a hunger down the line.
Is Kali any good? (A genuine question, I have never tried it.) Because if not, then a cynic might have said that there is no better way to turn potential new users off Linux than by introducing them to a bad one. (I can testify, my migration to Linux was delayed by at least ten years by trying to get in by, in the given order, Mandrake, Slackware and SuSE.)
Is Kali any good? (A genuine question, I have never tried it.) Because if not, then a cynic might have said that there is no better way to turn potential new users off Linux than by introducing them to a bad one. (I can testify, my migration to Linux was delayed by at least ten years by trying to get in by, in the given order, Mandrake, Slackware and SuSE.)
Given that SUSE and Ubuntu are already there as options, Kali is a good alternative if you dislike those two aforesaid distros. My exposure to Kali is minimal, but it's a great tool for certain kinds of uses within some corporate structures (read: white hat) and that's (to me) kind of awesome.
It's another tool within an organization that is not linked to any inherited problems or oversights that MS Windows may never test or show up as a concern.
Nice list of distros btw. We're quite similar.
It's not that I dislike them. They are great distros for a seasoned user. Just not so much for a novice like I was then. I have everything to thank for to Ubuntu for finally getting me to the other side. Now I would not touch it with a barge pole.
It's not that I dislike them. They are great distros for a seasoned user. Just not so much for a novice like I was then. I have everything to thank for to Ubuntu for finally getting me to the other side. Now I would not touch it with a barge pole.
Which distro are you using nowadays? Arch? Gentoo? G‘ol Debian?
Which distro are you using nowadays? Arch? Gentoo? G‘ol Debian?
I at least am kind-of-polydrug-user, of the worst kind.
On my non-mobile platforms I use almost daily at least Debian, Fedora, Gentoo, Ubuntu and on top of those 2 different strains of inhouse Linux, the first one a traditional LFS variant and the other a Koji-built own variant.
Now when I think about it, Arch is maybe the only major distro that I have not used.
I at least am kind-of-polydrug-user, of the worst kind.
On my non-mobile platforms I use almost daily at least Debian, Fedora, Gentoo, Ubuntu and on top of those 2 different strains of inhouse Linux, the first one a traditional LFS variant and the other a Koji-built own variant.
Now when I think about it, Arch is maybe the only major distro that I have not used.
Why? :eek:
Do you test distros for a living?
I for one, am done with Arch based distros, as I’m fed up with updates constantly breaking stuff.
Which distro are you using nowadays? Arch? Gentoo? G‘ol Debian?
At work, I use Windows 7 like most of the rest of the world. Win 7 isn't half bad, to be fair. There are things for which I do need some kind of a Linux environment and for those I generally use Cygwin or, increasingly, Debian with LXDE in a VM.
At home, I hardly ever get to use a big computer. So my choice of an OS oscillates between Maemo (99%) and Sailfish (1%). On the rare occasions that I do get the chance to fire up my laptop, I use Windows 8 it came with. I hate it to bits but I use it too rarely to justify doing something about it. I only use it when I absolutely have to, like to book a holiday (those websites are too heavy for the poor N900).
I for one, am done with Arch based distros, as I’m fed up with updates constantly breaking stuff.
Arch does not have a monopoly for breaking stuff on updates. When I was still using Ubuntu, back in 2009 or 2010, my laptop would no longer boot after one update. After a bit of panic and some googling, it turned out that they "optimised" it for newer PCs by turning on some kernel option. There was a solution but the point is, they broke it for me. But the last straw was when an update broke my favourite DVD authoring prog (DVD Styler, IIRC) and IDE (Anjuta). My impression is that these people just do whatever "works for them", with no care whatsoever for anyone else.
Why? :eek:
Do you test distros for a living?
I for one, am done with Arch based distros, as I’m fed up with updates constantly breaking stuff.
Well, you are actually correct there :)
My current job is building and testing linux distributions. (that's the 2 inhouse distributions I mentioned...)
As for the other ones; Debian was my first love and I still have few running Debian machines. Ubuntu and Fedora are widely used in the company so I also have machines I run them on. Gentoo was a kind-of sideline I installed some years back on a desktop that I still use daily, just as I wanted to learn how it is different from prepackaged distros.
If we go down the dark history, my first distribution was Slackware way way back in the dark ages, and my late father-in-law used to run SuSe for at least ten years...
deutch1976
2018-03-07, 08:29
Not even this is good for us?
https://mspoweruser.com/debian-linux-now-available-for-download-from-microsoft-store/
Not even this is good for us?
https://mspoweruser.com/debian-linux-now-available-for-download-from-microsoft-store/
Again. It may not be of any use to folks that will never use Win10 at home - it's not half bad to be honest, just makes a butt load of calls back to Microsoft (aka spying on the user) - but it shows some form of commitment to something beyond what MS has done in the past.
To me, it's still a good thing. Microsoft just basically lowered the entry point for those folks who were curious but couldn't be arsed to create a separate machine or set up a VM.
But... it still means that you're a current Win10 user. That's the disconnect for the folks here for the most part.
Note: I use Mac at home, Win10/Mac/Linux at work with company supplied iPad and iPhone as a creative and I am no longer a part of IT admin or programming.
badpixel
2018-03-08, 20:47
My current job is building and testing linux distributions. (that's the 2 inhouse distributions I mentioned...
What's kinds of job is it?
I work as IT(servers/network/winworkstations) administrator and it's pretty boring for me. Such job would be a dream for me.
I was pretty experienced linux user(started with Mandrake 8, but later there were Gentoo[I was scared of Debian, considered for exp. users ;-], Debian, AuroraLinux, Fedora, Slackware, Ubuntu, Suse until I found PLD Linux, which was second(after Gentoo) I falled in love and become devloper for few years.
But after many years(PLD was 2nd biggest RPM-based distro, and 3rd general in those time), userbase(nearly equal to developers base) was shrinking over time, and there were few dev-wars(we hadn't strong leadership, all was kind of mix of republic and anarchy). In that time PLD also migrated to git(from cvs), systemd and RPM5(now I know it was stupid decision), so nearly every second update distro become unbootable(we lacked manpower to fix all for systemd) and all old compiled packages(with rpm4, which all other[Fedora, SUSE, RHEL] still uses [except Mandriva]) become incompatible with new/current PLD system. And our wonderfull Poldek (best package manager interface, I;ve ever used[like bash, there's dirs like [installed], [testing], etc, and you navifate trough 'cd', 'ls') had many problems with RPM5, and after second database corruption (in which case full system reinstall was needed[you cannot delete database like with RPMv4, and recreate it from headers), I was off and switched to fedora temporarily). Recently I installed Archlinux in chroot and switched to it, but I'm not fully happy with Arch(it got packaged fresh plasma, etc, but there's not much of old/classic games/apps in repos. Base repos are small, while 3rd party are slow and unreliable(in PLD they were at least hosted in PLD infrastructure). And all GPG signing problems. I don't like pacman at all [both command syntax and how it works. Powerpill, etc are only ugly workarounds(Fedora's DNF is way better, faster and more modern)
So with Arch I got much more fresh software than I could get with Fedora, and with unstable repos it's much more stable than Rawhide. But I'm still thinking about going back to PLD.
The fun thing for me is that, after upgrading fedora from f25 to f27, system stopped booting normally(boots only in emergency mode, after ctrl+d pressed). I was thinking it's fedora specific bug and started preparing Arch in chroot, and after twoo weeks when booted it, I got identical error in Arch(so now I know it's SystemD upstream bug). And the only technology involved is systemd (Arch uses mkinitcpio, while Fedora dracut).
The problem is I'm using BTRFS with subvolumes(insted of partitions) over LUKS, and systemd thinks that /dev/mapper/butter, which luks device with (rootpartition '/') isn't ready and all dependencies fails for other services(while it's already mounted and boots correctly after ctrl+d). It was much more easier in rc-scripts time, than nowwith systemd, udev, dbus and all that magic underhood ;-)
What's kinds of job is it?
I work as IT(servers/network/winworkstations) administrator and it's pretty boring for me. Such job would be a dream for me.
I was pretty experienced linux user(started with Mandrake 8, but later there were Gentoo[I was scared of Debian, considered for exp. users ;-], Debian, AuroraLinux, Fedora, Slackware, Ubuntu, Suse until I found PLD Linux, which was second(after Gentoo) I falled in love and become devloper for few years.
But after many years(PLD was 2nd biggest RPM-based distro, and 3rd general in those time), userbase(nearly equal to developers base) was shrinking over time, and there were few dev-wars(we hadn't strong leadership, all was kind of mix of republic and anarchy). In that time PLD also migrated to git(from cvs), systemd and RPM5(now I know it was stupid decision), so nearly every second update distro become unbootable(we lacked manpower to fix all for systemd) and all old compiled packages(with rpm4, which all other[Fedora, SUSE, RHEL] still uses [except Mandriva]) become incompatible with new/current PLD system. And our wonderfull Poldek (best package manager interface, I;ve ever used[like bash, there's dirs like [installed], [testing], etc, and you navifate trough 'cd', 'ls') had many problems with RPM5, and after second database corruption (in which case full system reinstall was needed[you cannot delete database like with RPMv4, and recreate it from headers), I was off and switched to fedora temporarily). Recently I installed Archlinux in chroot and switched to it, but I'm not fully happy with Arch(it got packaged fresh plasma, etc, but there's not much of old/classic games/apps in repos. Base repos are small, while 3rd party are slow and unreliable(in PLD they were at least hosted in PLD infrastructure). And all GPG signing problems. I don't like pacman at all [both command syntax and how it works. Powerpill, etc are only ugly workarounds(Fedora's DNF is way better, faster and more modern)
So with Arch I got much more fresh software than I could get with Fedora, and with unstable repos it's much more stable than Rawhide. But I'm still thinking about going back to PLD.
The fun thing for me is that, after upgrading fedora from f25 to f27, system stopped booting normally(boots only in emergency mode, after ctrl+d pressed). I was thinking it's fedora specific bug and started preparing Arch in chroot, and after twoo weeks when booted it, I got identical error in Arch(so now I know it's SystemD upstream bug). And the only technology involved is systemd (Arch uses mkinitcpio, while Fedora dracut).
The problem is I'm using BTRFS with subvolumes(insted of partitions) over LUKS, and systemd thinks that /dev/mapper/butter, which luks device with (rootpartition '/') isn't ready and all dependencies fails for other services(while it's already mounted and boots correctly after ctrl+d). It was much more easier in rc-scripts time, than nowwith systemd, udev, dbus and all that magic underhood ;-)
Well I do like my job, its pretty varying depending on whether there is nothing special going on and times when all sorts of emergencies jump up around you :D
My team maintains the base platform for application developers who then build the stuff used in various embedded devices and cloud services on top of it; the division of work is very clear, all that we do is 100% foss, (gpl, apache, bsd and so on licensed) and the stuff that other folks build is 100% proprietary-company-internally-developed stuff.
We try to keep the platform as bleeding edge as possible, releases averaging every 2 weeks. (updates, bugfixes, patches to existing components, new features when application or system developers request them)
I do share your worry about systemd; it is a component I need to work very closely with and indeed even the stable branches are pretty volatile; just few weeks back i updated it to v237 and this week v238 is out and we start evaluating that.
badpixel
2018-03-09, 19:33
We try to keep the platform as bleeding edge as possible, releases averaging every 2 weeks
It's what I usually liked to do with my daily machines, so if your team would ever need more workers, then please contact me.
BTW, where is your work located? Is it remote or local in office?
Not even this is good for us?
https://mspoweruser.com/debian-linux-now-available-for-download-from-microsoft-store/
Does your phone run Window$ 10?
It's what I usually liked to do with my daily machines, so if your team would ever need more workers, then please contact me.
BTW, where is your work located? Is it remote or local in office?
I work most days in office in Finland, Espoo and maybe one day a week remote from home. The company is called Nokia :D
The company is called Nokia :D
should I know them? Who are they?:p
badpixel
2018-03-13, 21:53
I read that Nokia closed it's R&D center in Finland and moved it to China(like Factories previously). So I'm quiet surspised.
I read that Nokia closed it's R&D center in Finland and moved it to China(like Factories previously). So I'm quiet surspised.
You must be thinking of Nokia Mobile Phones which indeed does not exist any longer, it was sold off to Microsoft a few years back and eventually discontinued.
The parent company "Nokia" still exists, employing something around 60000 people around the world, about 10% of that in Finland. In Europe we are among the top software houses as far as I know.
You Guys have any Idea of Microsoft releasing the closed drivers for Maemo, and the N900 in particular ? Or should we have to open an online petition or something like that ?
You Guys have any Idea of Microsoft releasing the closed drivers for Maemo, and the N900 in particular ? Or should we have to open an online petition or something like that ?
No, won't happen. AFAIK Microsoft did not get Maemo rights, only featurephones/symbian/lumia. The rest of the things got stashed to Nokia Technologies which is the department handling patents and licensing.
No, won't happen. AFAIK Microsoft did not get Maemo rights, only featurephones/symbian/lumia. The rest of the things got stashed to Nokia Technologies which is the department handling patents and licensing.
Well, it's been about 8 to 9 years that the n900 has been released, we should do an action or something like that so that Nokia releases the closed drivers, at least for the N900...
The phone is still good and should be updated with the latest softwares...
freemangordon
2018-03-14, 17:12
...closed drivers, at least for the N900...
please, stop that.
https://elinux.org/N900
please, stop that.
https://elinux.org/N900
TIL. But I have to ask; beyond the PowerVR stuff, this means that it's largely open now? Flash that, you have a fully functioning device?
Please forgive my ignorance. Just found out about this.
TIL. But I have to ask; beyond the PowerVR stuff, this means that it's largely open now? Flash that, you have a fully functioning device?
Please forgive my ignorance. Just found out about this.
The only closed parts are PowerVR drivers, Wi-Fi firmware and Bluetooth firmware. The closed firmwares will work with recent mainline kernels. PowerVR is working with patches which are unlikely to ever be accepted upstream.
It really depends on what you expect from a fully functioning device. If you expect to be able to run a Linux distro for the desktop, that will mostly work. If you expect to have something like Fremantle with everything integrated, where everything works like phone calls, etc, well we're not quite there yet. That's what we're aiming for with Leste. Most of the stuff left to do is in userspace, bar the odd kernel bug.
Right now the N900 is the phone with best support in mainline Linux. If you're looking for something more modern, the Droid 4 is catching up.
The only closed parts are PowerVR drivers, Wi-Fi firmware and Bluetooth firmware. The closed firmwares will work with recent mainline kernels. PowerVR is working with patches which are unlikely to ever be accepted upstream.
It really depends on what you expect from a fully functioning device. If you expect to be able to run a Linux distro for the desktop, that will mostly work. If you expect to have something like Fremantle with everything integrated, where everything works like phone calls, etc, well we're not quite there yet. That's what we're aiming for with Leste. Most of the stuff left to do is in userspace, bar the odd kernel bug.
Right now the N900 is the phone with best support in mainline Linux. If you're looking for something more modern, the Droid 4 is catching up.
Thanks. I guess I'm looking for a truly equally functioning device in regards to telephony, application support optimized with what I'd expect the N900 out of the box if it were retail.
Can't say that I was a fan of desktop Linux on the device unoptimized for the screen size. But I can fully appreciate the existence of this and Maemo Leste.
mr_pingu
2018-03-15, 22:37
Does maemo leste kerbel include those PowerVR patches?
And regards to the wifi; I thought it was fully open since david RE'ed the wifi drivers for injection?
Sorry for being late to the party and side-tracking a bit by (kinda) answering the OP :p
I wonder if it is any good for us
Anything done by M$ in the post-W7 era (AKA the Satya Nadella era AKA the Apocalypse of user privacy) is only good for M$ (OK, maybe their partners as well).
(I'm not saying what M$ did prior to W10 was not good for them, but now it's much worse for the users, whether they know or care about it)
So while "offering" the possibility for (not privacy-inclined/-aware) W10 users to (hopefully) easily discover *one* variation of GNU/Linux is fine, let's not forget it boils down to getting an Open OS through one hell of a black box (and then there's the privacy aspect)...
I'd rather have distros being more non-tech-savvy-friendly so we could stop hearing the typical argument "Linux is too complicated, I don't even know how to install it"...
While I don't endorse Ubuntu, the idea is worthwhile.
Rant over, sorry about that, it has to be let out now and then.
Does maemo leste kerbel include those PowerVR patches?
And regards to the wifi; I thought it was fully open since david RE'ed the wifi drivers for injection?
Yes, it's still WIP but the N900 kernel for Leste includes patches for PVR.
The Wi-Fi driver might be open source but the firmware is still non-free (https://packages.debian.org/stretch/firmware-ti-connectivity).
We're going off-topic here. Can we continue this discussion in the Leste thread?
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