View Full Version : The 411 on the N810
It's rare that I can replicate my internal blogs to the outside world, but this one I can (:D):
After months of public speculation the N810 Internet Tablet is now officially acknowledged (http://www.reuters.com/article/technology-media-telco-SP/idUSN1728095120071017). So far it has been met with the usual mixed (and largely emotional) informal reviews in iconic forums like Internet Tablet Talk (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=28). Interestingly, many of the complaints orient around its close kinship with the N800. This is ironic given that the abrupt split between the 770 and N800 aroused serious indignation amongst the community and encouraged Nokia to continue providing unofficial support for the 770.
But I'm not here today to talk much about downsides, pitfalls and grumblings. Instead, I'll touch on what this advent means for current N800 users and future development. For brevity's sake I'll gloss over some aspects to focus on a few. Also note that I have only briefly seen the physical product so I'm unable to go very deep in analysis anyway (maybe later if/when I obtain one).
One of the most immediate benefits that N800 users will enjoy is the release of the slick 2008 operating system (heretofore codenamed Chinook (http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/1190039774.html)), which will simultaneously support both devices-- a first for the platform. Performance complaints have been addressed with a boost in available CPU speed (from 333 MHz to the upper limit of 400 MHz) thanks to improvements in the OS. This will resolve some issues involving video playback. Finger support has been enhanced, although there are still menus that will require a stylus or a really sharp fingernail. Hopefully the interface will continue to evolve toward something more iPhone (http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/index.html#internet)-like, as many users are expecting.
Hardware-wise, the N810 has built-in GPS, a very welcome addition for me, along with navigation software and maps. I am assuming that the N800 will also be able to use the same application and data with an external GPS but I have not yet seen confirmation of this. I do expect to eventually see third-party offerings in this space though.
But the most obvious difference between the two sibling devices is that the new kid has a built-in slide-out keyboard. In contrast to the inclusion of GPS, however, this feature has polarized users into two very distinct camps, those for versus those against. Many seem to prefer choosing their own external bluetooth keyboard, and have complained loudly against built-in keyboards on the tablets. Without being dismissive, I don't see them as the target customer anyway; obviously this move is intended to broaden the scope of the still geek-centric platform and draw new customers into the fold. In fact, the keyboard strips away some of the early-adopter aura and pulls the platform closer to mainstream. There are many users who will not want to seek out the expertise necessary for dealing with bluetooth keyboards... although the tablets now make such usage relatively easy.
Given that the N800 and N810 are more alike than different, I see this as an extension of the current tablet paradigm rather than a direct replacement. Indeed, customers now have two clear choices: a basic version or one with the same CPU running the same OS only with GPS and keyboard included. I hope this continues to be the case as the platform matures.
I am a bit surprised, however, at the Nseries designation. In my opinion the N800 was already veering close to Eseries territory, and the addition of a keyboard to the N810 speaks to me of further encroachment. I'm not sure what the overall strategy here is, but customers are clamoring for an E- variant on the tablet theme that better supports business-class usage (enhanced email, contacts, scheduling, Microsoft Word support, etc) and some feel let down that this was not it. So will we ever see that E8xx? Or will the tablets remain a solely Nseries offering, despite the potential capability to do more?
Along those last lines, Apple has announced improved third-party development support for the iPhone (http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/ptech/10/17/apple.iphone.ap/index.html). The OS still isn't Linux (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux), and this won't quite offer what Nokia is making available, but it is certainly a sign that Apple is feeling pressure to compete with the Internet Tablets in an area that has made them uncomfortable in the past. It will be interesting, to say the least, to see how this contest plays out!
EDIT: it appears Wayfarer GPS app will NOT be available for the N800... "free", anyway.
Great blog. Too bad we can't see more of your internal postings.
Thanks, zero, and yeah I agree-- especially since it's been harder building a consistent readership there... : /
DemonBob
2007-10-18, 15:20
But the most obvious difference between the two sibling devices is that the new kid has a built-in slide-out keyboard. In contrast to the inclusion of GPS, however, this feature has polarized users into two very distinct camps, those for versus those against. Many seem to prefer choosing their own external bluetooth keyboard, and have complained loudly against built-in keyboards on the tablets. Without being dismissive, I don't seem them as the target customer anyway; obviously this move is intended to broaden the scope of the still geek-centric platform and draw new customers into the fold. In fact, the keyboard strips away some of the early-adopter aura and pulls the platform closer to mainstream. There are many users who will not want to seek out the expertise necessary for dealing with bluetooth keyboards... although the tablets now make such usage relatively easy.
Very well said, especially the part above.
sherifnix
2007-10-18, 15:21
Tex! Very well written. Wish we could see more as well.
trevarthan
2007-10-18, 15:32
I'm ecstatic about the keyboard and the GPS. I'm think they're both really excellent moves. I'm also really happy about the move toward a more finger friendly O/S. And I'm also really happy about the ambient light sensor. I think that is sorely missing in the n800, especially when driving.
I think Nokia is going to hit a huge home run with the n810. I hope so anyway. It looks like a great product.
My only complaint is the mini/micro SD card slot requirement. I guess my current 4G full size SDHC card won't work. That kinda sucks. But I'll deal. The GPS alone is worth it.
trevarthan
2007-10-18, 15:33
BTW, is Chinook going to bump the n800's CPU speed to 400mhz too? Or is that strictly an n810 benefit?
Roc Ingersol
2007-10-18, 15:42
IMO the 770->800 split was due primarily the stark line drawn between the operating systems and what that did to developer support. I don't think the hardware bump itself had much to do with it (other than the 770 not really being able to deliver on the device's promise).
Given that the 800 and 810 will share an OS (and thereby implicit app support) I don't think you really had to worry about the same sort of split.
Keep on that track and I think you can safely add more hardware to new SKUs without huge backlash.
(I'm still waiting for the proper camera + internal HDD revision btw)
Greyghost
2007-10-18, 15:43
Tex! Very well written. Wish we could see more as well.
Tex,
I second & third this sentiment. Great info. Your writing is very insightful, and, of course, very much in line with what you've been saying (and hinting;) ) all along. Keep up the good work.
BTW, is Chinook going to bump the n800's CPU speed to 400mhz too? Or is that strictly an n810 benefit?
I've seen information stating that it will affect both devices.
EDIT: a program manager just read my blog... I'll be getting my N810 soon. :)
jzencovich
2007-10-18, 16:45
Tex, I don't believe that that is your writing, plagiarism is bad buddy.
Post the link (with instructions to access if necessary) to your internal blog for verification.
( :D )
---
Very well written buddy, Spot on. The only thing I'm a bit wary about is the bump in CPU speed on the N800. Sure I like it, my device will be faster and everything will run smoother etc... BUT. What about battery life? The 810 has its battery bumped up by 300mA if I recall. A 70MHz jump on a mobile device will need a LOT of optimization to keep the battery usage rate at the same level. (IMhO)
Otherwise the 810 seems right about where it should be, Some features will please some, others will disappoint. Personally I was looking forward to grabbing one, but the price (479? really? I got my n800 at 350 as an early adopter) and the card slots.... yeah. I have 2 8GB SDHC cards, I could split them with n800/810 but now I have to buy new cards? :-/
The Hardware keyboard surprised me, I heard something about it but assumed it was just rumors and false. I won't criticize it because I have yet to use it in real person, and as much as I feel a bit perplexed at the inclusion of a keyboard, I'll wait to try it before I give it an honest opinion.
Oh that reminds me. what ever happened to the 3d chip included with the N800? I heard that there was a 3d Accel chip that was never used, no drivers for it... and we were waiting on Nokia to activate it and do something wonderful with it. I know I'm probably not gonna get a satisfactory answer (NDAs.... :D ) but I'm just throwing that out there, food for thought.
Overall great preview Tex, I wish I could read your blog. I would gladly add to your constant readership :)
Also, what a coincidence, note that I have only briefly seen the physical product so I'm unable to go very deep in analysis anyway (maybe later if/when I obtain one).
(that seems to be the magical sentence :D [credit goes to texrat for above paragraph (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=83745&postcount=1)])
--Jon
(other than the 770 not really being able to deliver on the device's promise).
well, I still have to find a failed promise to my 770. (paid 150$ new)
the OS2006 it was sold with is rock solid when not upgraded. I never rebooted on me until I started adding 3rd party softw to it.
In fact, based on my own specific usage, I still can't see a good reason to upgrade the 150$ n770 to the 235$ n800 or the 450$ n810 (the gps is cool, the keyboard is a nice to have that I can live without)
BUT rs-mmc is not a good feature on the 770 and I hope the n810 will use the regular SD cards.
The only thing I'm a bit wary about is the bump in CPU speed on the N800. Sure I like it, my device will be faster and everything will run smoother etc... BUT. What about battery life? The 810 has its battery bumped up by 300mA if I recall. A 70MHz jump on a mobile device will need a LOT of optimization to keep the battery usage rate at the same level. (IMhO)
.
.
.
Oh that reminds me. what ever happened to the 3d chip included with the N800? I heard that there was a 3d Accel chip that was never used, no drivers for it... and we were waiting on Nokia to activate it and do something wonderful with it. I know I'm probably not gonna get a satisfactory answer (NDAs.... :D ) but I'm just throwing that out there, food for thought.
--Jon
Good luck accessing the url Jon, but here ya go: http://blogs.nokia.com/blogs/thelongtail/2007/10/the_411_on_the.html :D
As for the speed increase, what I've read says that it will occur in only certain circumstances and the reason it was withheld until now was to address the power consumption questions. Supposedly there have been corresponding efficiencies that even things out. I have definitely noticed a bit of perkiness and yet no decrease in battery life.
As for acceleration, I've also read that it's utilized BUT I cannot confirm...yet.
Roc Ingersol
2007-10-18, 17:14
well, I still have to find a failed promise to my 770. (paid 150$ new)More power to ya man. To be fair, I haven't touched a 770 since release. Back then, the system just wasn't there for video/flash/browsing. it promised a real mobile internet experience but it didn't really deliver one. I understand those things got better over time, but I think the rocky start plus the big performance jump with the 800 was a sore spot with people who picked up the 770 early.
Good luck accessing the url Jon, but here ya go: http://blogs.nokia.com/blogs/thelongtail/2007/10/the_411_on_the.html :D
Thanks... It worked! :D
Thanks... It worked! :D
Yeah, and I expect YOU to leave a comment so I can add you to the list of Nokians I pester. :p
jzencovich
2007-10-18, 17:26
Thanks for the link Tex, Now I have to change my ip address... :D
Ok what you say about the clock makes sense. So the tablet will run say at 300 MHz... and when you open up a video it will crank up all they way to 400MHz...then when you shut the vid it will drop down to 350 as you browse the net.... Something like that?
3D accel... mmmmm :)
Yeah, and I expect YOU to leave a comment so I can add you to the list of Nokians I pester. :p
Go check out your blog... :p
After months of public speculation the N810 Internet Tablet is now officially acknowledged (http://www.reuters.com/article/technology-media-telco-SP/idUSN1728095120071017).
A snippet from the Reuters article linked to above says:
The device will first be available in North America, 15 European markets and in limited parts of Asia, officials said. The average price of the phone in Europe will be around 450 euros.
I guess some technology writers still haven't grasped that it's not a phone :D.
Go check out your blog... :p
Yeah, and I see you left a GENERIC signature. :mad: :D
jzencovich
2007-10-18, 17:34
Or maybe they know something we don't.... DUN DUN DUN!!!!
A snippet from the Reuters article linked to above says:
[idiotic phone identification]
I guess some technology writers still haven't grasped that it's not a phone :D.
Cripes. When will they learn (I missed that though, d'oh!)...
As for acceleration, I've also read that it's utilized BUT I cannot confirm...yet.
If that proves to be true, will it be used also on the n800 or will it be a n810 thing only?
The Ti OMAP Linux Gaming SDK (that's a mouthful) has a ~1MB kernel module called pvr.ko to interface with the PowerVR MBX. I suggest looking for something along these lines....
Simon
jzencovich
2007-10-18, 18:07
I don't see why it wouldn't be a N800 thing too Luca. Seeing as both the N800 and 810 will have the same OS, and the N800 will have it's clock "refreshed", why not the Accel chip too?
If that proves to be true, will it be used also on the n800 or will it be a n810 thing only?
Given the basic hardware shared between the two, I would think that (other than keyboard and GPS) what affects one in the 2008 OS would affect both.
hmmm...
I can't seem to access your blog. Just me?
Along those last lines, Apple has announced improved third-party development support for the iPhone (http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/ptech/10/17/apple.iphone.ap/index.html). The OS still isn't Linux (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux), and this won't quite offer what Nokia is making available,
I'm not quite sure what you're trying to argue here. What's so great about Linux? Are the end users that you refer to going to care that it uses a monolithic kernel rather than a hybrid? The SDHC bug had to be tracked down within Nokia, so it's not clear how an open source kernel helps when you have closed hardware.
If you mean the OS as a whole, are there virtues of X11 over display PDF going to win over the consumer crowd? Are iPhone users going to be jealous of our application manager and repository system?
Seriously though, I don't think a Linux vs BSD/OS X argument is going to have anything to do with the success of these two systems. Usability and stability are going to be much more important.
Given the number of times that the browser or other application has caused my 770 to reboot, I'd say "linux" still has a long way to go.
-Jonathan
hmmm...
I can't seem to access your blog. Just me?
Like I said, it's internal. Only Nokia employess can access it, sorry.
I'm not quite sure what you're trying to argue here. What's so great about Linux?
You put on your flameproof suit?
:D
EDIT: seriously, I think you may be trying to read too much into the statement... all I mean is that Linux is open, iPhone OS is not. Yeah, yeah, I'm well aware the IT brand is not fully open, but still...
Like I said, it's internal. Only Nokia employess can access it, sorry.
Ahh, gotcha - no problem...
benny1967
2007-10-18, 18:28
well, I still have to find a failed promise to my 770.
+1
The 770 does all they said it would - plus so much more I'm still excited about this little (read "small": compare size and weight to an N800/N810!) device. In fact, for the way I use it (as a mobile device living in my backpack), it's much better than the somewhat fragile N800/N810.
jzencovich
2007-10-18, 18:34
Jonathan: http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/4856/ipodqa7.png
Also, you have to remember that the 770 was the first device. Early adopters bit the bullet, take one for the team... to work out the kinks in a probably buggy device.
Also remember that Nokia said that they are at step 3 of a 5 step process: 770 was the alpha, 800 is the beta, 810 seems like another beta, 900 will be a RC, and the X will be GM.
And for the record, I hack my tablet up a lot (software, not hardware). I've stressed the poor little thing. And it has crashed on me very rarely. I think the 800 by itself is quite stable.
You have Freedom vs Stability. Think of all those Utopia like movies. Where society is nearly perfect, no crime, no diseases, no fear. But at the same time no passion, no privacy, no love.... Is it really worth the trade off? You have an amazing device, that is locked solid to prevent you from doing anything "bad" at the loss of your passions... your loves... and any attempt to circumvent the system.... you know what that means.
That's why I prefer Linux. We may not be all there yet (step 3/5) but I can do nearly whatever I want on my tablet, with relative ease. No one is going to stop me from loading Kismet or VNC functionality onto my tablet. No one is going to stop me from reading a .doc instead of a .odf or vice-verse. And no one is going to stop me from loading a buggy version of KDE 4.0 Alpha 1 onto my tablet if I want to. It's MY tablet, not yours. Choice.
mrlanrat
2007-10-18, 23:33
Hey Texrat, do you work for Nokia or something?
Im just wondering. but what does internal blog mean in this case, internal where?
Disclaimer: my yammerings, teasing, poking, protesting and wry commentary originate entirely within my own skull and in no way reflect Nokia policy or propaganda. That stuff has yet to penetrate. My biological and technological distinctiveness is MINE!
This is very useful.
EDIT: Sorry, when viewing i skipped a page :o I understand now.
My latest internal blog, also fit for public consumption:
Hands on the N810
Thanks to the generosity of a colleague I have been able to enjoy playing around with an N810. In many ways I am extremely pleased. Some of the improvements are evolutionary, as one would expect in the third of its generation, and a couple are dramatic.
In my last article on the topic I praised the promise of the device. As I said then, this time I'll do a little more in-depth analysis, which means acknowledging the nice aspects but also pointing out areas for further improvements. I'll focus on hardware today. Disclaimer: this review is based on a preproduction unit and may not be wholly indicative of final products.
First the general form factor. I love it! I believe the design team has achieved the proper size here. Moving the stereo speakers to the back top corners, relocating the d-pad and other changes enabled them to shorten the device length and streamline the face. Along the latter lines, the Menu, Home and Escape/Undo buttons have been incorporated into the left edge of the body itself, resulting in a very low-profile solution that looks great and feels solid. The weight is slightly greater than the N800 but, surprisingly, doesn't feel so to me and in fact one colleague thought it was lighter! Probably perception due to the reduced size.
One of the more helpful additions has been the inclusion of a GPS unit. I tested it while driving home yesterday and was generally pleased with the performance. It definitely draws a lot of power so you'll want to keep it on a charger while using. I'll try to do a more thorough analysis of the out-of-the-box usability in the future.
But the most obvious development has been the incorporation of a slide-out hardware keyboard. Push up on the face of the device and you are presented with this new feature, which exposes helpful backlighting in low-light situations. The slide is firm but not overly so, and the keyboard clicks into place. The d-pad has been moved to the left side of the keyboard, which has aroused complaints from a few potential customers but in my use so far this has not been an issue at all; I don't miss the d-pad when the keyboard is retracted and I appreciate how its relocation "cleans up" the tablet's face.
Speaking of the face, the webcam has been moved there, too, now residing in the upper left corner. This means no more hardware activation (as is the case when the N800's cylindrical webcam is popped out) and no rotation. However, a benefit is that there is now no left-side protrusion as well as fewer pieces of hardware to wear out.
Now on to miscellaneous aspects. The stylus and top buttons have regressed to something close to the 770's. For the most part I believe this is a good idea and like how the stylus integrates into the tablet's rounded upper right corner. It feels very secure when in place. On the opposite corner is a status LED, the one that used to be incorporated into the d-pad. Below that and just above the camera is an ambient light sensor that influences touchscreen backlighting levels as well as the aforementioned keyboard backlighting. The back cover is a thin metal shield that opens from the bottom now. Location of the charge, headset and USB ports is unchanged. A final, noteworthy recognition: the LCD screen is easier to read outdoors than it was on previous models.
With all that addressed, it's time to get into the constructive criticism.
First, the keyboard. I only have two issues, and the first is one that's been brought up previously by third-party reviewers in regards to some of our slider phones, such as the N80: there is too little clearance between the lower edge of the device and the top row of keys. I feel the device would benefit from another 5 millimeters or so of additional room there. Sloping the edge would help as well. I find that the keyboard works best for me when using my thumbs, and that gets awkward on the top row. The other keyboard issue is the pressure required to press the keys. On one hand I like how solid they feel; on the other, I wish they responded to a lighter touch. A dedicated Tab key would have been very, very welcome, too... especially for web form navigation
Second, while I do like the return to the 770-style zoom and other buttons, I think they would be better on the face edge than the keyboard (back) edge. They are a little hard to reach when the keyboard is out.
A minor gripe involves the battery cover lock. It's not too difficult to push to the open position, but I struggled with locking it. I think the switch should have ridges or some other physical feature that made it easier to "grab". And while we're in the area, I would have preferred a touch plastic cover such as the N800 has, only with the "soft touch" rubber-like coating popular on many consumer devices. The blued stainless steel is certainly pretty, but in my opinion not as practical.
Another petty complaint of mine is that the stylus now looks cheap. However, maybe I was just spoiled by the classy N800 stylus.
Finally, while the LCD screen does look better outdoors, indoors it is too reflective for me. I find that there is a very narrow tilting range for avoiding reflections, especially my own. Highly distracting.
Other observers have complained about the webcam now only facing forward, making photos of anything but the user impractical. I would have preferred a central, rotating webcam at the top of the device but I don't see this one as a showstopper. Additional negative comments focus on the changes to the memory card (no more internal card, MiniSD is new format for external slot) but that's not as important to me. I only wish that, if the format had to be reduced (and I can understand that), the program had gone all the way to MicroSD instead. Personally, my philosophy going forward is to buy MicroSD cards as well as the adapters required to get them into Mini and Full-size slots. This will not, however, help those with legacy SD cards who want to simply swap between multiple devices.
As I remarked in the previous N810 article, I personally see this as more of an Eseries than Nseries device. That's what the new look and keyboard say to me. In fact, I'm hoping to get this tablet up to the same speed as my trusty N800, using it for Nokia email, Sametime and other intranet functions. I will be testing the (corporate) VPN tool soon and will report on that experience.
Ending on a positive note, I'll recap by saying that overall I am pleased and impressed. The N810 demonstrates that the platform has promise and that, at least so far, it has garnered the proper support from the company. I was told that the N810 represents step 3 of a 5-step process, and if that bears out, I can't wait to see how step 5 manifests!
I'm glad that you're continuing to post these here. Keep it up.
Yeah, the lack of a tab key is a bit annoying, isn't it?
oops...
I'm wondering. since this is "step 3 of 5" i'm a little weary of being an early adopter based on what happend w/ the n770 and n800.... is it worth picking this up as an out of the box internet tablet? or wait and see whatelse nokia has in store.
meant to post here
oops...
I'm wondering. since this is "step 3 of 5" i'm a little weary of being an early adopter based on what happend w/ the n770 and n800.... is it worth picking this up as an out of the box internet tablet? or wait and see whatelse nokia has in store.
meant to post here
What happened to the N800? It's being supported, and the new OS is being made available to it, as well.
I think he's referring to the infamous transition from 770 to N800.
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