View Full Version : another N810 first hand eval......
bunanson
2007-10-19, 05:27
http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2007/10/first_glance_th.html
Unfortunately, I tend to agree with him regarding the price tag, as someone already mentioned in other thread, $479 is darn close to the price of a laptop with 80G HD and a DVD burner.:(
This one even have a video demo,
http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9798987-1.html.
It also mention about universal WiFi access with Boingo Mobile for $7.95 a month, ~96$/yr, not bad.
bun
DataPath
2007-10-19, 12:16
$479 is also a perfectly reasonable price for a decent standalone car GPS.
This is a heck of a lot more than a car GPS.
No it's not. Without additional software it's not a car navigational system and that software won't be free either.
He says it has 10GB of storage space.
Don't you just love how all these bloggers/professional journalists are getting so many of the details completely wrong? Did they even pay attention to the announcement? Nokia should have just sent us over there... oh well.
No it's not. Without additional software it's not a car navigational system and that software won't be free either.
Ok, but how many GPS devices have the other features that the N810 has?
Given the entire set of features and usability, I personally can't quibble much with the launch list price. Yeah, it veers a bit close to low-end laptop territory, but as another poster pointed out, how many laptops slide into your pocket?
There's a price tag for convenience, you know.
Hedgecore
2007-10-19, 12:48
Actually, $479 is not an acceptable price for a car GPS. Perhaps 5 years ago, but now component prices have dropped sharply. What you're paying for in that price tag is the software that comes with it... and I don't think you'll find too many fans of expensive software in these forums.
Look at it this way. My buddy just got a bluetooth GPS receiver for $50. You're telling me Garmin's souped up Game Boy technology is worth $429?
Actually, $479 is not an acceptable price for a car GPS. Perhaps 5 years ago, but now component prices have dropped sharply. What you're paying for in that price tag is the software that comes with it... and I don't think you'll find too many fans of expensive software in these forums.
Look at it this way. My buddy just got a bluetooth GPS receiver for $50. You're telling me Garmin's souped up Game Boy technology is worth $429?
I hate it when you're serious. You make... points.
DataPath
2007-10-19, 13:15
Actually, $479 is not an acceptable price for a car GPS. Perhaps 5 years ago, but now component prices have dropped sharply. What you're paying for in that price tag is the software that comes with it... and I don't think you'll find too many fans of expensive software in these forums.
Actually, I suspect they value their maps a lot more than their software. Barring that, though, I haven't used a recent car GPS, so I'm not sure what advances they've made in navigational software, so I'm afraid I'm not in a position to try to make any kind of direct comparison on software.
Look at it this way. My buddy just got a bluetooth GPS receiver for $50. You're telling me Garmin's souped up Game Boy technology is worth $429?
Worth? I said nothing of the sort. Market value? You tell me:
Garmin nuvi 660: $535.84 at Amazon.com
* Personal Travel assistant is loaded with highly detailed NAVTEQ City Navigator NT road maps for the US, Canada, and Puerto Rico
* Super-bright, 4.3-inch widescreen display makes map viewing easy, day or night
* Select destinations, look up POIs, and play your favorite MP3s and audio books with the touch screen interface. speed zone, speed camera and red light camera database
* Integrated Bluetooth wireless technology with a mic and speaker lets you make hands-free mobile phone calls
* Measures 4.9 x 2.9 x 0.9 inches (WxHxD) and weighs 6.2 ounces
Nokia N810: $479 (estimated)
* Loaded with highly detailed NAVTEQ City Navigator NT road maps
* Super-bright 4.13-inch widescreen display makes map viewing easy, day or night
* Select destinations, look up POIs, and play your favorite movies, MP3s and audio books
* Integrated Bluetooth specification v. 2.0. +EDR
* Profiles supported: HID, FTP, DUN, GAP, SPP, HSP, SAP and OPP
* Measures 5.0 x 2.8 x 0.5 inches (WxHxD) and weighs 8.0 ounces
...another one...
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/10/19/first-inqpressions-nokia-n810
They say it will cost 299 in UK? Ouch! :eek:
Viipottaja
2007-10-19, 18:21
Err.. I mean.. the Inquirer "article" is just a pain to read..
"We tried looking at the popular Typepad blogging site but found the typeface so small it was almost unreadable. Bizzarely a helpful Nokia techie hit a button underneath the N810 which helped by zooming in."
Bizzarely? Underneath?
"Curiously, the device boasts a fold-out arm which is intended to enable the tablet to sit on the desk."
I don't know what to say..
"Somewhat surprisingly the N810 contains a VGA style camera "
Oh somebody kill me already..
ROFL Viipottaja. That's priceless.
Also:
"In essence the N810 is an upgraded version of Nokia's first foray into the Linux portable world - the N800"
:rolleyes:
The comment I left:
Horrible review. It ignores the fact that the 770 was Nokia's first Linux tablet, confuses the device with a phone, and expresses surprise at features the N800 also possessed (webcam, fold-out stand).
Guys, it's billed as an internet tablet. Not a phone. It's a very small touchscreen COMPUTER. NOT a phone. Totally different path defined for this NON-phone product. It doesn't need GSM, 3g, et al. It's not a phone. It connects over wifi or uses bluetooth to connect with THE PHONE YOU WOULD ALREADY HAVE.
The score is nuts. It's wrought of ignorance.
Did I mention the N810 is not a phone?
Let's see if moderators allow it. :D
ROFL Vipottaja. That's priceless.
Also:
"In essence the N810 is an upgraded version of Nokia's first foray into the Linux portable world - the N800"
:rolleyes:
The comment I left:
Let's see if moderators allow it. :D
Texrat, thank you for that comment!
LOL... so far it's not approved... :D
icerabbit
2007-10-19, 20:05
That information week initial review is pretty poor.
Of course budget notebooks get into the same ballpark but the reviewer totally misses miniaturization, by a mile, no, a continent. This device is pocketable, has an excellent screen at 800x480, and, you only need a mobile phone if you want to use it outside of free wifi.
I have an N800 since recently and absolutely love it. I take it everywhere and even leave my notebook at home. It is perfect for reading the web and little emails.
I do wish the N tablet series could already be more advanced and become a true little mobile blogging, media player, email & pda device. Right now I'm stumbling on software limitations, mainly.
But add that keyboard and GPS ... and that is some neat powerful cocktail.
That the reviewer fails to see that, is really really sad.
...another one...
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/10/19/first-inqpressions-nokia-n810
They say it will cost 299 in UK? Ouch! :eek:
£299 is what the N800 was selling for not too long ago (still seems to be £280 at Expansys (http://www.expansys.com/p.aspx?i=144770)) , I was worried the N810 would be £350+...
bunanson
2007-10-20, 01:32
ROFL Viipottaja. That's priceless.
Also:
"In essence the N810 is an upgraded version of Nokia's first foray into the Linux portable world - the N800"
:rolleyes:
The comment I left:
Let's see if moderators allow it. :D
Surprise, surprise, your comment is out......, I guess it takes some time for the mod to check out who is Texrat from itT, uh. I like the last word "Did I mention the N810 is not a phone?", good job Texrat, we are proud of you!
BTW, the reason why the rating is nuts, probably he drank those glasses and got drunk before the review:o , the rating should be 10, but he drank 5 of them.:p
bun
bunanson
2007-10-20, 01:41
That information week initial review is pretty poor.
Of course budget notebooks get into the same ballpark but the reviewer totally misses miniaturization, by a mile, no, a continent. This device is pocketable, has an excellent screen at 800x480, and, you only need a mobile phone if you want to use it outside of free wifi.
I have an N800 since recently and absolutely love it. I take it everywhere and even leave my notebook at home. It is perfect for reading the web and little emails.
I do wish the N tablet series could already be more advanced and become a true little mobile blogging, media player, email & pda device. Right now I'm stumbling on software limitations, mainly.
But add that keyboard and GPS ... and that is some neat powerful cocktail.
That the reviewer fails to see that, is really really sad.
I totally agree with you. I love my 770 too, and, of course, I have left my laptop/s at home, and one of my winCE at home, and I took the 770 everywhere. Sadly, I cannot stay away from my other winCE machine as it carries my contact and my schedule (Dont tell me, I saw a thread yesterday about how to transfer the contacts to the N800, I will try over the weekend), and Citrix and a drug book. These have not been ported to the 770 yet, I am sure that will the day if the Chinook and Diablo keeps on rolling out....
Thanks Nokia, I am waiting for the 2008OS....:D
bun
bunanson
2007-10-20, 22:23
Now we have more reviews on the web, ThoughtFix video demo, http://tabletblog.com/, leaves very little doubt about the N810 look and feel, while deliverator's report, http://deliverator.silverfir.net/?p=485, gives a critical review about the N810's functionality. Deliverator's report is the most critical among others. Oh, if you are on Video Center, dont miss GeekBriefTV #0246, (PodshowTV for N800, use external player mplayer) Coli Lewis introducing the N810, even hers is more accurate than the inquirer's. With these reports, the N810 may have a hard sell to the N800 users!
bun
Garage Battle
2007-10-20, 22:49
TomTom Go 720 has 4.3" screen, high res, bluetooth to phone for handfree call/text message and for traffic updates. Has voice guidance, including street names. Has a light sensor i believe also. Voice recognition for route setup. 6 million points of interest included.
It costs $415 on ebay shipped.
TomTom Go 720 has 4.3" screen, high res, bluetooth to phone for handfree call/text message and for traffic updates. Has voice guidance, including street names. Has a light sensor i believe also. Voice recognition for route setup. 6 million points of interest included.
It costs $415 on ebay shipped.
Lol. Other than being random, does your post have any purpose? The N810 isn't marketed or designed as a stand-alone GPS. That's merely one of the MANY functions. Does that TomTom also do VOIP over WiFi or 3G? No? Does it have an internet browser? No? Hmmm, does it do Internet Radio? No. Wow, seems like a crappy GPS unit for $415....
DataPath
2007-10-21, 03:51
Lol. Other than being random, does your post have any purpose? The N810 isn't marketed or designed as a stand-alone GPS. That's merely one of the MANY functions. Does that TomTom also do VOIP over WiFi or 3G? No? Does it have an internet browser? No? Hmmm, does it do Internet Radio? No. Wow, seems like a crappy GPS unit for $415....
I think it's a follow-on to the complaints about having to pay an EXTRA $130/36mo for the GPS navigation features.
And I agree with the sentiment. Make it a usable car navigation GPS, or don't. Don't sell it as having GPS built in, with maps and points of interest, and a car mount, and then vaguely suggest that there are "premium" features that you can shell out for after having spent half a grand on this guy.
Navigation and voice prompts are premium features? In the car GPS world, those features are the baseline.
So one of the big features of the N810, the major one that's supposed to justify the $240 price difference, is GPS. Woo. Yay. Been there, done that. Maemo mapper and a $60 external bluetooth.
Heck, give me an N800 with a transflective screen and the stainless steel case, and I'll pay the $360 we were seeing for the N800 a couple weeks ago, because that would still be a better deal than the N810.
SteveNYC
2007-10-21, 04:45
I think the biggest issue with the price is that there is no real basis for comparison with other devices because the N810 will be different than most other devices currently on the market. I would only compare the price to the N800 or the N770. Beyond that, it's essentially an apples vs. oranges approach. I first started reading this thread on my Samsung Q1 Ultra. Seeing as how I paid $950 for that device and it has far more functionality and compatibility with desktop applications, one might say that is a far better deal than the N810 at just under $500. But I wouldn't. They're very different devices with very different roles in mind. Heck, I wasn't even willing to post this response on the Q1 Ultra because I didn't feel like doing this much text input on its tiny keyboard (or with dialkeys, or the on-screen keyboard).
For me, the price of the N810 will be justified largely by the browser and my impression of the overall responsiveness of the device. A device that is as pocketable as the N810 with a good battery life and an open architecture is a big selling point to me. I think it will be years before we see large scale consumer adoption of NITs, due largely to a general lack of software and overall awareness. But that's true of all things. I'll bet the UMPC arena is several times larger than the NIT arena for sure. But no one knows about UMPCs either.
Datapath's comment that the N810 is not a significant enough improvement to warrant a $240 price difference is interesting. It may very well be true. But I think of it this way... I believe the N800 wasn't worth the money originally because of the lack of a keyboard and the weaker browser. Add the backlit keyboard, the improved OS and the GPS and now I think the device is worth examining.
It's all about perspective.
there is no real basis for comparison with other devices
Yes, there is for example the eeePC and how fair a company calculates their prices. And Asus isn't known for his low pricing. Yes, for sure, the eeePC isn't so small, but Nokia shouldn't do what Palm did: rest in peace and being a little bit bigheaded.
Lets go back into the past and have a look at Palm and where Palm is now!? Microsoft rolls like a thunder over Palm in the PDA market! Nokia does have the exclusive status of selling a device like this. For now. And it looks like Nokia do the same like Palm in the Internettablet marketplace...
The pricing on the Nav part I don't have a problem with. Have you guys seen Nokia's own Maps app? (which it baffles me that they didnt' use it). It's preloaded on all the newer Nseries phones, and works the same way. Out of the box you get all the maps you want, plus tracking and POI and all that. However, if you want voice turn-by-turn directions you have to pay.
What I *DON'T* agree with is the mandatory 3-year sentence. With Nokia's product, you get several options for licensing - 7-days, 11-days, 30-days, 1-year, and 3-years. I'm MUCH more comfortable with that.
Plus, contrary to what you may believe, GPS nav is completely usable without voice turn-by-turn directions. I do it on my N95 all the time with Google Maps Mobile.
bunanson
2007-10-21, 15:16
Plus, contrary to what you may believe, GPS nav is completely usable without voice turn-by-turn directions.
The tablet's sound is NOT loud enough to be heard without hook up to some amplification. And I am totally agree with you that the voice turn-by-turn adds little to a GPS system.
bun
The pricing on the Nav part I don't have a problem with. Have you guys seen Nokia's own Maps app? (which it baffles me that they didnt' use it). It's preloaded on all the newer Nseries phones, and works the same way. Out of the box you get all the maps you want, plus tracking and POI and all that. However, if you want voice turn-by-turn directions you have to pay.
What I *DON'T* agree with is the mandatory 3-year sentence. With Nokia's product, you get several options for licensing - 7-days, 11-days, 30-days, 1-year, and 3-years. I'm MUCH more comfortable with that.
Plus, contrary to what you may believe, GPS nav is completely usable without voice turn-by-turn directions. I do it on my N95 all the time with Google Maps Mobile.
Perhaps it is the integration within the maemo framework?
What isn't mentioned much is the statement I read somewhere that POI's in this 0S2008 app will launch the device's web browser if an IP addy is associated with them.
It doesn't take much imagination to think that contacts and eventually phone numbers can also be linked to this app.
What baffles me is the stink over the pay for play aspect of the navigation feature. If anyone would be skeptical of Nokia's intent it would be N800 owners like myself who have already paid for the Navicore app.
When this new feature was announced I felt for sure that we were somehow being screwed by Nokia. As further info became available I found that current Navicore licensees can simply enter their code and enjoy all the features.
Nobody getting boinked here. In fact non Navicore owners are getting the essential features for free by simply upgrading their OS. Looking at the navigation set up screens shown for the new device...
http://www.forum.nokia.com/pics/wayfinder_and_duke.jpg
It looks to me like the only feature (other than voice) missing from the free version is "find location"...
http://files.myopera.com/yodude/blog/options.png
All this stink and "subscription" talk is prompted by one line on the Wafinder site "36 months license of Wayfinder Navigator™ for your Nokia N810i"
I happen to read it as providing 36 months of support.
3 years is a long time to provide support for a Navigation program on a single device. In the same time period in the past, TomTom running on a WinMo PPC has gone from version 3 to version 7 requiring more money from users twice.
Hell, the dang WinMo device has changed 3 times and I don't even think TomTom 7 will run on a 3 year old device.
(BTW, in addition to the original purchase price, a subscription IS required for TomTom Plus services like POI updates and Traffic info.)
My question is this: Why would someone think that complaining on an enthusiasts forum about the price of additional features for an app that Nokia has given to us gratis would change anything?
The big story remains:
Nokia has given early adopters of the N8** series new, free features like GPS location, Maps, and video software.
I actually feel good about my decision to purchase the N800 when it first came out and don't think I'm missing a dang thing. :)
(BTW, that^ feeling was much different 3 months ago :D )
I agree with the above, as long as we get map updates within that 3 year period, $130 is a pretty damn good price.
I still think they would do better to adopt the time-period subscriptions.
For instance, on my N95, I have essentially the same setup. Free maps and tracking, voice nav is extra. I switch phones so often, i'm not about to pony up for an extended license. However, the 30-day one is only ~$11-12, and I've done it for the US probably 4-5 times, as well as a 7-day license for the UK when I was in London. That's nearly $60, and I'm 100% satisfied with the whole experience. I'd MUCH prefer the shorter-time period options.
SteveNYC
2007-10-22, 04:51
Yes, there is for example the eeePC and how fair a company calculates their prices. And Asus isn't known for his low pricing. Yes, for sure, the eeePC isn't so small, but Nokia shouldn't do what Palm did: rest in peace and being a little bit bigheaded.
Lets go back into the past and have a look at Palm and where Palm is now!? Microsoft rolls like a thunder over Palm in the PDA market! Nokia does have the exclusive status of selling a device like this. For now. And it looks like Nokia do the same like Palm in the Internettablet marketplace...If you feel that the eeePC is a pocketable device, then yes, you could make a comparison. Beyond that, I would doubt it. The eeePC compares very favorably with other x86 based devices. but its business model is that of a linux laptop alternative. I would think that the Internettablet marketplace, as you call it, would consist of devices like the iPhone and other smartphones. By mid-2008, I might include Intel based MIDs.
I agree with YoDude's sentiment. I've paid lots of money for my TomTom navigation system (_not_ GPS, GPS is just a cheap little satellite receiver). And I've paid again, for upgrades. I've paid even more for upgraded maps. GPS=cheap. Navigation=not so cheap (although the price has come down due to competition).
As for this:
>Microsoft rolls like a thunder over Palm in the PDA market!
True enough. At least for the PDAs. I think one of the reasons is that Palm was caught in a trap by its own success in the smartphone market, the Treo series. They sold lots of Treos, so therefore they focused their effort there. However, in the US (the primary market) the carriers have full control over the devices (unlike e.g. Europe), and they dictated Palm to leave out wi-fi in the Treos. And they crippled dial-up networking over BT and so on. The PDA market was left behind, while HP and others flooded the market with wi-fi enabled PDAs. Even though the Treos are full-fledged PDAs in other respects, they could never compete in that market, not very well at least. Actually they still sell a lot of Treos, but not many PDAs.
Anyway, when Apple entered the phone market they had enough muscle to force the carrier to accept wi-fi, this was a first. They had enough trouble doing that as I understand, in the end there was only one carrier that would accept it. For a costly contract for the buyer, afaict.
Actually, $479 is not an acceptable price for a car GPS. Perhaps 5 years ago, but now component prices have dropped sharply. What you're paying for in that price tag is the software that comes with it... and I don't think you'll find too many fans of expensive software in these forums.
Look at it this way. My buddy just got a bluetooth GPS receiver for $50. You're telling me Garmin's souped up Game Boy technology is worth $429?
???
Where were you five years ago? Routing GPS's with voice guidance where more like $1000 retail and $600 ebay. Still a middle of the range gps will run you $500+
Anyway, when Apple entered the phone market they had enough muscle to force the carrier to accept wi-fi, this was a first. They had enough trouble doing that as I understand, in the end there was only one carrier that would accept it. For a costly contract for the buyer, afaict.
That's incorrect. Before the iPhone, the AT&T 8125 and 8525 both had WiFi built in, as did T-Mobile's Dash. I'm not familiar enough with Sprint and Verizon's lineup to say, but I'm sure they each had their own WiFi-enabled phones.
Thanks for the correction. But for some reason the carriers for sure forced Palm there. I'm not overly familiar with the devices you mention, were they limited in any way? E.g. could you do VoIP on them?
ImDisaster
2007-10-22, 13:56
That's incorrect. Before the iPhone, the AT&T 8125 and 8525 both had WiFi built in, as did T-Mobile's Dash. I'm not familiar enough with Sprint and Verizon's lineup to say, but I'm sure they each had their own WiFi-enabled phones.
I recall the previous AT&T models but don't recall anything offered from Verizon with WIFI. The carriers have wayyyy to much power over the manufacturers in this country. They disable WIFI, GPS, DUN and anything else they figure they can charge extra for.
This is one of the arguments I read for Nokia not building a phone into the n770/n8xx. If they did they would be limited to what the carriers would allow.
ImDisaster
2007-10-22, 14:04
???
Where were you five years ago? Routing GPS's with voice guidance where more like $1000 retail and $600 ebay. Still a middle of the range gps will run you $500+
That is correct. I paid just over $1000 dollars for my first GPS about 5 years ago. It was a Roadmate 700, if I recall and it took a while for the price to drop from the original $1500 to the $1100 I bought it for. At the time, it was still considerably less expensive than buying a built in model...and could be used in multiple cars. It wasn't bad but very spartan by todays standards.
Today, if you shop around, you can buy a basic GPS for about $250. This is a "good" model...like a Garmin c530....not one of those offbrands. If you want one full of features like real time traffic data and street announcement (as opposed to just the basic turn left) it will cost you a bit more. You can still pay upwards of $600 to $700 for the higher end models but I think it gets a bit silly. Do you really want to play MP3's through your GPS? Are you going to be viewing pictures on it?
That's incorrect. Before the iPhone, the AT&T 8125 and 8525 both had WiFi built in, as did T-Mobile's Dash. I'm not familiar enough with Sprint and Verizon's lineup to say, but I'm sure they each had their own WiFi-enabled phones.
To a certain extent, you can use fring (http://www.fring.com/)
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