View Full Version : USB 2.0 OTG on N810
What exactly does it mean that the N810 has USB 2.0 OTG ("On-the-go")?
Will that mean that has USB host capability? Can you plug a usb keyboard into it, for example? What about a USB flash drive?
Also, do you think it is possible that OS2008 will bring OTG capability to the N800, or is it a hardware difference?
(I don't have a NIT at this time, but I'm considering the N800 now that the price has dropped so much. I liked the idea of the sliding keyboard, but can't see spending almost $500 on the new device. I rarely drive, so the GPS doesn't add value to me, though I can understand its appeal to many people)
aleksandyr
2007-10-19, 19:37
USB-OTG devices can function in a variant of host mode that, in fact, covers keyboards and flash drives.
There are patches to put OTG functionality on your N800 available right now, but it's a difficult process and doesn't produce great results (or didn't a few months ago when I did it. :)
May be those patches are "incorporated" in the upcoming IT2008 firmware?
USB-OTG devices can function in a variant of host mode that, in fact, covers keyboards and flash drives.
There are patches to put OTG functionality on your N800 available right now, but it's a difficult process and doesn't produce great results (or didn't a few months ago when I did it. :)
Could you tell a simple way how could I verify if this is supported in N800 having OS2008 firmware?
aleksandyr
2007-10-19, 19:58
anidel: That's what I'm betting on. It's actually in the mainline kernel, but it was backported for the N800. See http://www.muru.com/linux/n800-usb-host/
Mara: From http://www.muru.com/linux/n800-usb-host/ --- assuming it's using the same structure --- see if /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode
exists on the device (or the musb_hdrc directory, probably.) To actually test this, you need a USB-OTG cable (again, check that page for the details) and those are fairly rare in the wild.
Of course, the easiest way to test this would be to send me a copy of N800 OS2008, since I've already built one of those cables. Heck, I'll even get real Java working (yay GTK 2.10!) too. What a deal, eh? :D
hordeman
2007-10-19, 21:18
To actually test this, you need a USB-OTG cable (again, check that page for the details) and those are fairly rare in the wild.
Is this one of those types of cables?
http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-2-0-OTG-Cable-Mini-A-Male-Mini-B-Male-Hi-Speed_W0QQitemZ220106909762QQihZ012QQcategoryZ4493 4QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
anidel: That's what I'm betting on. It's actually in the mainline kernel, but it was backported for the N800. See http://www.muru.com/linux/n800-usb-host/
Mara: From http://www.muru.com/linux/n800-usb-host/ --- assuming it's using the same structure --- see if /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode
exists on the device (or the musb_hdrc directory, probably.) To actually test this, you need a USB-OTG cable (again, check that page for the details) and those are fairly rare in the wild.
Of course, the easiest way to test this would be to send me a copy of N800 OS2008, since I've already built one of those cables. Heck, I'll even get real Java working (yay GTK 2.10!) too. What a deal, eh? :D
Yup... the directory (and file "mode") does exist... :cool:
What about the 5Volt USB power supply?
johnkzin
2007-10-19, 22:26
What does this mean for keyboard support? Does the keyboard need to have some form of power for itself? (and if they keyboard is a standard USB keyboard, what needs to be done to make it work with OTG?)
I have this thumb keyboard, see... and I wanna use it with my N800 ;-)
Capt'n Corrupt
2007-10-21, 00:11
Well if N810 support USB OTG, then this is another huge plus that may offset the lack of two SD slots. Take a look at the link below:
http://www.flash-memory-store.com/apacer-80gb-usb-otg-drive.html
For around $200 US you can buy external storage for everyones favorite tablet that should keep you satiated with hours of movies, libraries of literature, and days of music. This unit has its own power supply, so I'm guessing that it will not largely impact the units running time. This should be a nice alternative to the upcoming external bluetooth drives.
I believe Nokia made some very smart design decisions with the N810.
When the wind blows northwards, I go north...
}:^)~
YARR!!
El Capitan
convulted
2007-10-21, 01:22
If I am not seriously mistaken OTG on the tablet will allow you to use a normal flash drive... no need for fancy discontinued drives :)
Capt'n Corrupt
2007-10-21, 01:43
As far as I can tell, USB OTG is a new standard that sets restrictions on power consumption and the protocols for communication (plus other esoteric features that are beyond this old dog). I'm not sure if it can be used with normal USB flash drives.
However, the USB OTG hard drive enclosures, expand the capacities of our beloved N8xx's up to 100GB or more, with a zippy USB 2.0 connection. Here's a link for one of the enclosures (sans disk). This one isn't discontinued. :D
http://www.usbgear.com/computer_cable_details.cfm?sku=USBG-OTG25&cats=172&catid=172%2C177%2C140%2C161
When my heart was broken on land, I fell in love with the sea.
}:^)~
YARR!!
Capt'n C.
I just dont have that kind of room in my pockets. If the placement of the usb port wasnt so bad I could remove the casing and wire it into the logitech psp case I use. I saw a small 40GB bluetooth hard drive that could fit in the lid of the psp case i use on another post a wile back. To bad bluetooth uses to much battery power.
MoridinBG
2007-10-21, 04:04
You just need one of this (http://www.keytools.co.uk/keyboards/images/duraflex_rollup.jpg).
$10 here. Water/Cola/Beer resistent. Absolutely full sized, Smaller than the NIT when rolled. The keys are a little bit hard to press, but it's not big deal.
Capt'n Corrupt
2007-10-21, 12:53
Certainly, certainly.
The Hard Drive is not perfect, but having 8GB on the N810 in addition to a 100GB tank to carry along would be useful for extended trips, backing up data, or intervals of extended desolation. It wouldn't need to stay connected, but could be used to transfer a movies, or other large files, to the unit before being disconnected. Simultaneously the USB OTG HD (phew...) is a good companion for the PC/camera phones/cell phones, etc. Its multiple uses lift it to a new strata of usefulness and likely extend its life beyond the soon-to-be-replaced N810 (~1 year).
It's the silence of the storm approaching that I fear the most.
}:^)~
YARR!!
Cappy
So is there a way to use this usb evdo modem with the new usb functionality
http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/20/v...-do-usb-modem/
johnkzin
2007-10-21, 17:00
Unfortunately, that thing is Verizon based. Blech.
Sprint has a USB EVDO modem that has support for windows, mac, AND LINUX (ovation U727) ... and it's not Verizon! :-)
$80 for the card, $60/mo for unlimited bandwidth ($40/mo for 40MB/mo). But, no word on whether anyone has it working with maemo.
They also have Sierra Aircard 595U USB EVDO modem, for the same pricing. But it only claims to have windows and mac support.
AT&T has the Sierra Aircard 875U USB HSDPA modem for $50 up front ($30 for 10MB/mo, $60 for unlimited data/month). And, again, it only claims windows and mac support.
Though, the Sierra site has an FAQ that tells how to _unofficially_ use the Aircard 775 with Linux. Don't know if that will work with maemo, or if it will work with other Aircard devices.
T-mobile, unfortunately, doesn't sell any USB based ones. There are third parties, like Falcon, that sell GSM GPRS USB modems and stuff, that might work with T-mobile, but I have no idea of the state of their Linux support.
What someone really needs to do is develop mobile modems that communicate to client devices via Bluetooth DUN, Bluetooth PAN, and/or act as Wifi access points (low power is fine, since it's not intended to serve your entire house). Put an internal battery in it, a USB interface solely for manipulating config files (presents itself to the host as a hard drive), and that's it. Then you don't have to worry about which OS it has drivers for, because it's going to be entirely based on standard communication protocols.
What someone really needs to do is develop mobile modems that communicate to client devices via Bluetooth DUN, Bluetooth PAN, and/or act as Wifi access points (low power is fine, since it's not intended to serve your entire house).
Oooh, that would be a good idea. I thought I saw a dial-up modem that would do the same thing, convert it to Bluetooth so you can connect to it without worry of OS, drivers, connector type, etc. But, now take it to HSDPA, EVDO, EDGE or whatever method of connectivity you need.
Yeah, something like that would be especially perfect for in the car.
So with the usb OTG is usb netorking now possible?
What someone really needs to do is develop mobile modems that communicate to client devices via Bluetooth DUN, Bluetooth PAN, and/or act as Wifi access points (low power is fine, since it's not intended to serve your entire house). Put an internal battery in it, a USB interface solely for manipulating config files (presents itself to the host as a hard drive), and that's it. Then you don't have to worry about which OS it has drivers for, because it's going to be entirely based on standard communication protocols.
That would be good (something like one of the pocket wi-fi adapters with this thing included, for example).
For now I'm going the route with an HSDPA USB modem plugged into a wi-fi router with USB ports, which works just fine, but to set it up is still a bit more work than plug&go to get it working initially. It's not a mobile solution though (in any case you would have to carry a power source for the power-sucking usb modem as well as the wi-fi part, if you would want it as a mobile solution).
So with the usb OTG is usb netorking now possible?
Is OTG really needed for that? As far as I know usb networking has been working all the time (with the proper software installed). But I haven't tried it myself yet.
Can I use an USB network module (Twisted Pair/RJ45 connector) with N810? So it would be the perfect and small gadget for testing network connections. Now I use a laptop...
Thank you
@slha89: I don't know exactly what your USB network module does.. is it a USB/Ethernet interface? If so, then the N810 would need to be able to support a USB network adapter in its micro-USB slot. It would presumably have to be not just in OTG mode, but in powered host mode too. And you would need a converter cable for USB to micro-USB, if that was combined with power injection then maybe.. of course you would need the USB driver module for the kernel too.
If the use case described above is what you meant to do (checking networks by connecting to Ethernet via RJ45), then I would instead simply bring along my pocket wi-fi adapter.. I plug it into any RJ45 Ethernet, and it's set up to give me a wi-fi AP which my N800 can connect to. Then I'm on the network. The only configuration I would have to worry about would be if the tested network provides DHCP or not, because I would have to manually configure the pocket adapter if it needs a static IP.
benny1967
2007-10-22, 13:36
Personally, I'd be more interested in reading multiple card formats (SD, MMC in various sizes), which the N810 isnt capable of. (High capacity flash storage is nice, but usually I need to transfer data from one device to another which is most easily done by exchanging the memory cards.)
Does USB OTG help me here? Are there card readers that could be connected to the N810 and accessed from the file manager?
johnkzin
2007-10-22, 14:45
This device says "USB OTG" and "Card reader", but it's a little more complex than that (two sources for the same device, with slightly different descriptions):
http://www.compsource.com/ttechnote.asp?part_no=330100&vid=1447&src=F
http://www.directron.com/330100.html
It has a full host of card readers (CF I & II, SD, MMC, Memory Stick, Memory Stick Pro, Smart Media, Micro Drive, and XD (with a CF to XD adaptor). It has 2 USB A connectors for attaching USB HD's directly, and then, even without connecting to a PC, you can transfer files from disk to disk, disk to card, and/or (I think) card to card.
It also has a USB B connector to attach to a PC, so you can also use the device as a plain card reader.
That's what I glean from the description. It has internal power (3 AAA batteries), for use when it's doing non-PC file transfers. It seems like it'd be useful even if it doesn't exactly directly attach to the N810 ... Worst case, you could attach an N800 and/or N810 to the USB B ports, and treat them like dumb storage for transferring files around.
I might get one next month and play with it. If I do, I'll post back here about it.
Just googling "Aleratec 330100" found it at a few stores.
TenSpeed
2007-10-22, 18:19
Hi all:
I'm new to the forum, but have been trying to port Audacity to Maemo since late 2005. I'm NOT a programmer, so it's a slow process, and the 770 (and early Maemo) made the task impossible, but the new hardware, Chinook, and OS2008 seem to offer some hope. So... would it be possible to attach a quality USB microphone to the tablets now (using a USB OTG cable and micro plug adapter)? My other options are Bluetooth (not much decent hardware available for broadcast-level audio) and using a separate device for audio capture (Edirol R-09, Zoom H2/H4) and moving the card to the IT.
So is there a way to use this usb evdo modem with the new usb functionality
http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/20/v...-do-usb-modem/
i'd love to know the answer to this question as well.
aleksandyr
2007-10-25, 04:37
I reserve the right to be dead wrong:
There's no way a USB EVDO modem will be able to power itself off of the N800's USB-OTG port. The N810 may provide that much power, but it's extremely unlikely.
Once USB-OTG catches on, I would expect to see compatible self-powered modems. USB-OTG is useful for low-power or no-power devices only --- it gives you host mode and gives you that little bit of power you need to activate the client device.
Read up on the 770 Host Mode docs for more details.
aleksandyr
2007-10-25, 04:39
Hi all:
I'm new to the forum, but have been trying to port Audacity to Maemo since late 2005. I'm NOT a programmer, so it's a slow process, and the 770 (and early Maemo) made the task impossible, but the new hardware, Chinook, and OS2008 seem to offer some hope. So... would it be possible to attach a quality USB microphone to the tablets now (using a USB OTG cable and micro plug adapter)? My other options are Bluetooth (not much decent hardware available for broadcast-level audio) and using a separate device for audio capture (Edirol R-09, Zoom H2/H4) and moving the card to the IT.
Eventually you'll be able to connect a USB microphone to the IT, although it will require a powered hub. That said, high-quality (48khz 24-bit) recording is way, way beyond what the N800 can process without the DSP getting in on it.
I would say separate device is your best bet.
johnkzin
2007-10-25, 04:40
If you had a powered hub, and hooked it up to the N810, I would expect the N810 to fall-back to host mode and deal with things on the hub as clients. That's what OTG is supposed to do (deal with non-OTG devices in non-OTG host/client mode).
But that would mean lugging around a powered hub with your USB-EVDO modem. No fun :)
[...]That said, high-quality (48khz 24-bit) recording is way, way beyond what the N800 can process without the DSP getting in on it.
It's a pity, really. I was disappointed when I found that maemo recorder recorded just 8KHz, and very disappointed when I learned that it's because of a hardware limitation. My old Palm T3 can record 48KHz 16-bit (the built-in voice recorder app. only records 8KHz much like maemo recorder, but 3party apps can go full quality).
TenSpeed
2007-10-25, 13:42
Thanks aleksandyr for the follow-up! I guess I'll have to put my USB audio recording plans on hold and work on the file editing side of things. My Zoom H2 is on order, and I'll be using MicroSD cards with an adapter now that I know the N810 spec.
So if I update my N800 to OS 2008. What devices can I then connect to the n800?
So if I update my N800 to OS 2008. What devices can I then connect to the n800?
Good question. Will we be able to connect our digital cameras via USB and transfer the pictures to the N800/N810?
The Problem is, that I have no idea what we could use with OTG :-/
Is there any useful device with OTG? EthernetController?
I want OTG to allow me to connect my N800 to my Nikon D200 and let me browse the photos I have just shot.
Can it? Could it?
An usb keyboard would be a very useful thing to connect to the usb port: contrary to bluetooth ones they can be found very cheaply.
Capt'n Corrupt
2007-10-25, 23:48
There is some easy to follow information regarding USB OTG here:
USB OTG Introduction (http://www.usb.org/developers/onthego/)
Perhaps this document will shed light on the OTG mystery.
}:^)~
YARR!!
Capn't Corrput
I guess it depends on what drivers are available for OTG in OS2008.
I would hope that a driver to mount an external disk would be one of the obvious ones.
I'm going to get me an OTG USB cable so i am ready for the arrival of OS2008.
johnkzin
2007-10-26, 14:37
If you find a good price for them online, post it here :-)
Here you go: http://www.lindy.com/us/catalog/14/12/02d/index.php
For other countries, go to www.lindy.com.
Are we sure the mini-A will plug into the N800?
Unfortunately, I'm in Trinidad and no-one delivers here.
Capt'n Corrupt
2007-10-26, 17:25
I guess it depends on what drivers are available for OTG in OS2008.
I would hope that a driver to mount an external disk would be one of the obvious ones.
I'm going to get me an OTG USB cable so i am ready for the arrival of OS2008.
Check the previous posts for links. There are USB OTG mobile HD enclosures with their own power source on the market. With the right connector, it should be able to carry 100GB + with you on the road for a reasonable price. There are advantages and disadvantages to a USB OTG HD:
Pros:
1) Great for sharing info with other devices
2) Faster (in theory) than bluetooth
3) Readily available now
4) Tremendous storage potential.
Cons:
1) Not as convenient as bluetooth
2) Not nearly as convenient as internal memory
3) One extra device to carry around
If bluetooth drives are available, I'll likely choose this over the USB OTG. However, if they are too costly, then USB OTG will be my mass storage/backup/portable choice.
}:^)~
YARR!!
President Corrupt
johnkzin
2007-10-26, 18:04
Yeah, on the bluetooth HD front, I'm still waiting to hear about availability of the Seagate DAVE and the Agere BluOnyx. Hopefully soon for both.
Capt'n Corrupt
2007-10-27, 01:38
Me too.
I hope that these drives are solid state *and* know how to go to sleep to conserve battery life.
Convenience is the name of the game.
}:^)~
YARR!!
Diary of a Capt'n
esoterica
2007-11-14, 23:29
Since an iPod can function as a self-powered USB HDD formatted with FAT32, can it be used as an OTG storage device with the Nokia N800 and N810? This could make a N800 + iPod a great combination for archiving pictures from SD card while on the go. Also, if an app on the N8x0 could parse the iPod's bizarre native file structure, the N8x0 could be used as a bigger screen/speakers to watch MPEG4/H.264 videos that are stored on the iPod.
johnkzin
2007-11-14, 23:39
Any chance Nokia will support this:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/14/atandt-usbconnect-881-hsupa-card-now-available/
Here you go: http://www.lindy.com/us/catalog/14/12/02d/index.php
For other countries, go to www.lindy.com.
Are we sure the mini-A will plug into the N800?
Unfortunately, I'm in Trinidad and no-one delivers here.
The N810 uses Micro, not Mini-USB (see Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Types_of_USB_connectors))
I googled a bit and cannot find anyone selling Micro-A cables or adapters. This may be because the Micro-USB standard is quite recent, and the N810 is likely the first device to offer host mode using said standard.
The N810 uses Micro, not Mini-USB (see Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Types_of_USB_connectors))
I googled a bit and cannot find anyone selling Micro-A cables or adapters. This may be because the Micro-USB standard is quite recent, and the N810 is likely the first device to offer host mode using said standard.
Lucky I didn't order them, then.
hordeman
2007-11-15, 06:11
Since an iPod can function as a self-powered USB HDD formatted with FAT32, can it be used as an OTG storage device with the Nokia N800 and N810? This could make a N800 + iPod a great combination for archiving pictures from SD card while on the go. Also, if an app on the N8x0 could parse the iPod's bizarre native file structure, the N8x0 could be used as a bigger screen/speakers to watch MPEG4/H.264 videos that are stored on the iPod.
This possibility can also apply to the Creative Vision:M and the n800/n810
This may have been mentioned already, but just to clarify...
USB OTG is intended for single device connection only. It can certainly work with a USB memory dongle, as long the Mass Storage Class drivers are implemented in the N810. For that matter, any other USB device should also work as long as there are drivers implemented (some examples are Communications Device Class and Human Interface Device Class).
It differs from USB Host in that it specifically does not support hubs, and thus multiple devices.
the N810 is likely the first device to offer host mode using said standard.
The new Nokia N82 (http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/sections/products/tech_specs/en-R1/tech_specs_n82_en_R1.html)(released yesterday, available "now") has it, too.
The N810 uses Micro, not Mini-USB (see Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Types_of_USB_connectors))
I googled a bit and cannot find anyone selling Micro-A cables or adapters. This may be because the Micro-USB standard is quite recent, and the N810 is likely the first device to offer host mode using said standard.
Hang on. I was talking about the n800 at the time, which DOES use mini-USB cables.
Excuse the repetition from another thread: hubs are not supported, so I'm wondering if that means that devices combining multiple devices, like a kb combined with a mouse, won't work. Maybe also effects things like external hd that also has an integrated hub?
Excuse the repetition from another thread: hubs are not supported
So, umm, what about linking that thread at least once? I already read two same comments by you, none has link to thread you are talking about.
As for hubs and other unsuported devices this is feature of linux kernel and is enabled in Nokia kernel. There is a white list of allowed USB devices, everything other is not allowed.
CONFIG_USB_OTG_WHITELIST:
If you say Y here, the "otg_whitelist.h" file will be used as a
product whitelist, so USB peripherals not listed there will be
rejected during enumeration. This behavior is required by the
USB OTG specification for all devices not on your product's
"Targeted Peripherals List".
This can be turned off when compiling own kernel.
Sry for missing the link, here you go: <other thread here> (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11700)
Thanks for the info re kernel option. I thought OTG specification/implementation might be partly hw specific, hence the question (please, don't bother pointing me to USB specs, already been through that pain a few years back). So assuming the white list is there for a reason what, if any, would be the impact of turning this option off?
Sry for missing the link, here you go: <other thread here> (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11700)
Umm, yes that is the first thread where you are talking about yet another thread. I was (and others may be too) interested in the original thread where you got the info from.
So assuming the white list is there for a reason what, if any, would be the impact of turning this option off?
The reason is quoted in kernel description in my previous post. Impact is obviously that untested devices will be allowed :-)
Hmmm, seems like you are determined to give me a hard time ;)
Umm, yes that is the first thread where you are talking about yet another thread. I was (and others may be too) interested in the original thread where you got the info from.
The current thread of course! Specifically post #51.
The reason is quoted in kernel description in my previous post. Impact is obviously that untested devices will be allowed :-)
Never mind, I will seek the information elsewhere.
This wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_On-The-Go) says:
The USB OTG standard defines only one-to-one connection. Unlike standard USB, USB OTG does not use hubs. Connecting a USB hub between two OTG devices will lead to losing all USB OTG capabilities, locking one device as the host and the other as the peripheral until the hub is disconnected.
I read this as meaning that a hub *can* be used *but* still only one device can be used at a time. Any USB OTG expert please chip in if I am wrong.
PS: I don't have time to trawl the USB specs. I suppose the average user will simply want to know if it is at all possible to connect multiple devices.
Hang on. I was talking about the n800 at the time, which DOES use mini-USB cables.
Oooops..... sorry :o
I have tunnel vision on the N810, at least until it is in my needy hands.
Yes, those cables from Lindy are indeed what you need. For something more versatile, you may want to check out this Gold-X Cable Kit (http://www.goldxproducts.com/product/show-product.asp?pid=GXQU). It has detachable connectors to create any standard USB cable possible (except, of course, the new Micro-USB). A bit of hackery will still be required to create the proper host cable for the N800, but it should be easier due to the Gold-X cable's design.
The Sharp Zaurus C3xxx and C1000 palmtops had USB OTG capability. I successfully used USB keyboards & mice, external HDD & card readers and bluetooth, wifi & ethernet adapters with it. This leads me to believe that it is indeed only a matter of compiling a kernel with the right options. That and finding OTG Micro-A cables/adapters, compiling driver modules and providing sufficient power to devices. Simple, right? ;)
In other words, a special OTG or whitelisted device is not necessarily required to connect to an OTG host. The reason the USB developers group refers to whitelists and limited host capability is because the target is typically your media player with proprietary OS and limited resources. The TI OMAP processors used in the Nokia tablets provides both host & slave capability. The presence of the Micro-AB socket on the n810 means that it is dual-role, as it accepts both A and B plugs. The role an OTG device takes is dependent on what type of USB plug is used. Micro-A is host, Micro-B is slave. If both connected OTG devices have an AB socket, they may renegotiate the host & slave roles on the fly. This last bit is the true power and differentiator of the OTG specification. The rest is all standard USB, same as found on your desktop.
The presence of only a Mini-B socket on the N800 and 700 means they do not conform to USB standards. This may be the reason why Nokia could not provide official support for host mode on these models. However, the capability is still provided by the TI processor As already known, only a hacked cable and kernel support is needed to enable host mode.
Hmmm, seems like you are determined to give me a hard time ;)
No
The current thread of course! Specifically post #51.
Oh I see. So you talk about different thread but you mean the very same thread just few posts above :-) Now that is perfectly clear "of course" :-) Nevermind.
Never mind, I will seek the information elsewhere.
I don't know what else to add except repeating information already provided. As already explained the white list is artificial limitation, if removed everything can be connected (including hubs) which is what OTG specification disallows, that's the only purpose why the list is there. Manufacturers are supposed to test everything allowed and disallow the rest so Nokia did precisely that. Once you disable the white list and recompile kernel anything untested by manufacturer can be connected including hubs and will work (if there is a driver).
LurkerN and fanoush, thanks for the info. Scratches head, so disabling the white list allows a hub to be connected, got it, but is OTG protocol/s (whatever) still active and, as suggested by the wikipedia info, only *one* device can be connected, even with a hub in between?
fanoush: re double posting, I could explain in excruciating detail how I/we arrived at this point. Suffice it to say that I made the mistake of double posting and compounded it, in retrospect, by the statement "Excuse the repetition from another thread:...", by which I meant that the statement following the ":" is literally (almost, for the pedants) repeated from another thread, which it was. You have read it slightly differently. Lets leave it at that before it becomes a big yawn for all :)
Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-15, 19:24
The Sharp Zaurus C3xxx and C1000 palmtops had USB OTG capability. I successfully used USB keyboards & mice, external HDD & card readers and bluetooth, wifi & ethernet adapters with it. This leads me to believe that it is indeed only a matter of compiling a kernel with the right options. That and finding OTG Micro-A cables/adapters, compiling driver modules and providing sufficient power to devices. Simple, right? ;)
In other words, a special OTG or whitelisted device is not necessarily required to connect to an OTG host. The reason the USB developers group refers to whitelists and limited host capability is because the target is typically your media player with proprietary OS and limited resources. The TI OMAP processors used in the Nokia tablets provides both host & slave capability. The presence of the Micro-AB socket on the n810 means that it is dual-role, as it accepts both A and B plugs. The role an OTG device takes is dependent on what type of USB plug is used. Micro-A is host, Micro-B is slave. If both connected OTG devices have an AB socket, they may renegotiate the host & slave roles on the fly. This last bit is the true power and differentiator of the OTG specification. The rest is all standard USB, same as found on your desktop.
The presence of only a Mini-B socket on the N800 and 700 means they do not conform to USB standards. This may be the reason why Nokia could not provide official support for host mode on these models. However, the capability is still provided by the TI processor As already known, only a hacked cable and kernel support is needed to enable host mode.
A well written, thoughtful, and insightful post. Good job!
The thought of using an inexpensive portable USB keyboard with a retractable cord
(http://www.pcconnection.com/ProductDetail?sku=7707480&srccode=cii_9324560&cpncode=11-37942800-2), is exciting. Wireless is nice, but not really necssary for this type of task. Plus, there is no need to charge batteries!
}:^)~
YARR!
Capt'n Corrupt
MstPrgmr
2007-11-15, 19:37
A well written, thoughtful, and insightful post. Good job!
The thought of using an inexpensive portable USB keyboard with a retractable cord
(http://www.pcconnection.com/ProductDetail?sku=7707480&srccode=cii_9324560&cpncode=11-37942800-2), is exciting. Wireless is nice, but not really necssary for this type of task. Plus, there is no need to charge batteries!
}:^)~
YARR!
Capt'n Corrupt
Yes, well written but you forgot one thing. The Zaurus line had a 150mA limit on the current supplied through the USB port. That was for the official Sharp rom, but various roms could expand or remove that limit. If the Nokia N810 has an unpowered port then USB OTG would be pointless.
aleksandyr
2007-11-15, 20:04
The N800, and almost certainly the N810, use a powered port at or near 150mA.
LurkerN and fanoush, thanks for the info. Scratches head, so disabling the white list allows a hub to be connected, got it, but is OTG protocol/s (whatever) still active and, as suggested by the wikipedia info, only *one* device can be connected, even with a hub in between?
A USB hub does not allow the OTG host/slave negotiation protocol to pass. Thus, the roles are determined by the way in which an OTG device is connected to the hub. There are only two proper ways to connect to a hub, both of which are dictated by the type of cable used. Every hub has either one Mini or full-size B port for the host, and multiple A ports for the devices. A host cable cannot plug into an A port, and a slave cable cannot plug into the B port. The USB plugs & ports are keyed so that compliant cables & devices cannot be used in the wrong role. There are non-compliant cables and adapters out there, which IIRC can destroy a device and/or PC if used outside of the odd application for which they were created.
Yes, that explanation is confusing when I read it. It is the best I can do for now. But it makes sense if one examines a hub and its connections.
This may help some of you get you head around way to power devices, it's a mod to use a Wireless USB dongle on a GP2x;
Using a battery pack and a USB Hub and magic;
http://wiki.gp2x.org/images/f/f8/Gp2x_couch_small.jpg
http://wiki.gp2x.org/images/2/21/Gp2x_worn_cropped.jpg
http://wiki.gp2x.org/wiki/WirelessUSBTutorial
is OTG protocol/s (whatever) still active and, as suggested by the wikipedia info, only *one* device can be connected, even with a hub in between?
You can leave the usb chip inside N800 (and 810) in OTG mode where it detects which cable you insert and it switches to correct mode automatically (client or host) and then perhaps can also negotiate mode switch with real OTG device. You can also force the chip to client (peripheral) or host mode if you don't have proper cable. See http://muru.com/linux/n800-usb-host/ for details.
When you switch it to host mode, you can attach normal USB devices like keyboard and also powered hub and then attach more devices to it. I have tried with my N800 and it works. I expect it to be same with N810 since both the hardware and the software is same. N810 may have additional advantage of proper connector for attaching also real OTG devices but otherwise it is same and the manual mode should work too.
This may help some of you get you head around way to power devices, it's a mod to use a Wireless USB dongle on a GP2x;
Using a battery pack and a USB Hub and magic;
<...pics...>
http://wiki.gp2x.org/wiki/WirelessUSBTutorial
Here is a battery-powered hub which used 4x AAAs: link (http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/all/hubs/cph420mp.html)
However, for maximum portability I'd like to pair a small NIHM or Li-Ion/Polymer battery with this tiny USB hub: link (http://www.targus.com/us/product_details.asp?sku=ACH63US) (it is sold under many different brands at various retail stores). Even better would be if somehow a charger IC could be wired up to the battery and hub, communicating with the host via USB itself. The charger IC would ideally give charge/discharge status to the host, allowing it to unmount/disable/power down USB devices depending on battery status and usage. Unfortunately, I have no qualifications to take on this task. Anyone else? :)
pixelseventy2
2007-11-19, 16:29
So, I've been following this thread, but I'm still unsure where we stand. I've flashed my n800 to 2008, and want to replace my tired, old bluetooth keyboard with a roll-up usb keyboard. Is this possible? And without using xterm to change things every time?
I'm asuming that I'd need either a power injector or a powered hub, but will the n800/n810 support the keyboard then? I don't have a usb keyboard to try, and I'm too lazy/cheap to find one, build a power injector and hack a cable, to then find that it doesn't work (sorry).
Ok, I'm in the same boat as pixelseventy2.
I may be blind, but I'm not sure where we're at.
The N800 only has a miniB port. It comes with (I think?) a MaleA - MiniB cable.
With OS800 on the N800, can I use the included cable to plug into a powered hub into which I have also plugged an USB keyboard? Do I then have to pull up a terminal and do the following?
echo host > /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode
According to http://muru.com/linux/n800-usb-host/ this should put the N800 into USB-Host mode. Does this work?
If someone says, "yes" then I will ask the next question. Will a simple USB-A gender changer allow me to use the included cable with standard USB devices that have USB-A connectors?
bumpity-bump-bump
Has anyone tested OS2008 USB OTG yet?
Either on the N800 or the N810.
Do I then have to pull up a terminal and do the following?
echo host > /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode
According to http://muru.com/linux/n800-usb-host/ this should put the N800 into USB-Host mode. Does this work?
If someone says, "yes" then I will ask the next question. Will a simple USB-A gender changer allow me to use the included cable with standard USB devices that have USB-A connectors?
Mine appears to go into host mode when doing "echo host..", as far as I can tell (OS2008 on N800), but I didn't have drivers for any of the things I've plugged in, they were identified and powered, though.
Gender changer should be fine, provided you have drivers to support the devices, and the devices consume less than 100mA of current.
Tirithen
2007-11-28, 08:17
Yesterday I tried to connect a PS/2 keyboard with a PS/2 -> USB adapter, added ~5v from 4AA batteries and connected it to my N800 with OS2008 installed on it.
I don't have and drivers so I guess nothing should have happened, the onely thing that was noticeble was that when I onely had the batteries connected to the keyboard caps, num and scrollock was flashing and when I connected them to the N800 they stopped flashing and became lit when I used echo host > /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode num lock stayed lit and the other two was flashing. When I connected the same things on OS2007 some months ago it said usb connected but the tablet did not say anything this time.
I don't know if that said anything but if someone has some ideas as how to install drivers or other ways of testing, if it matters if you use a hub or just a cable ect. please share, I've been wanting this since I bought this device about half a year ago. Most of all I want to be able to connect a keyboard and bluetooth ones are to expensive for my taste plus I want to save the battery time.
We can use 4AA batteries to power a keyboard we could allso figure out how to make a small charger chip and add a power cable from it to the n800. My N800 battery is 1500 mAh and with 4AA's you get 4.8v and 2500-3000 mAh.
Would be greate when I'm traveling.
Capt'n Corrupt
2007-11-28, 11:11
I'm not sure, but I recall it being discussed that the N800 only has a Mini-B usb connector while the N810 has a micro-AB connector. The difference is that the N810 can act as a master or a slave when tethering it to other devices, where the N800 can only act as a slave. This is part of the N810's USB-OTG setup: it can connect directly with other USB devices without requiring a PC as an intermediary. The N800 requires the intermediary.
Your best bet would be to try this connection using a (powered?) USB HUB.
Please correct me if I'm wrong!
}:^)~
YARR!
Capt'n Corrupt
See the USB Host Mode Experiment thread (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4177&page=4). With OS 2008 people are now using USB devices with their N800s. As for the N810, I suppose we are simply waiting for the first user to hack a Micro-B cable or obtain the proper adapter and report here. Myself, I will work on this within the next week or two.
I may have confused the issue with my previous postings (TMI). See muru.com (http://muru.com/linux/n800-usb-host/) for a an excellent explanation. OS 2008 has host mode compiled in, so the kernel patch bits do not apply to those users.
As noted, a hub may be used for multiple devices and is necessary to supply power above 100mA.
Unfortunately, it appears some devices (bus-powered HDD enclosures?) fail even with a powered hub. Perhaps, when trying to negotiate for more power, something goes wrong on account of OTG stuff.
Unfortunately, it appears some devices (bus-powered HDD enclosures?) fail even with a powered hub. Perhaps, when trying to negotiate for more power, something goes wrong on account of OTG stuff.
I don't think that can be it. I could be wrong, but I believe that USB doesn't do any "negotiation" for power. It's either there and it's enough to turn on the device, or it's not. If the device is powered and not being recognized, I'd say the problem lies elsewhere.
Many USB HDDs require more than 500mA on startup, so a dual jack cable is usually used, plugged into a powered USB hub.
So, to get USB host mode working on the N800, according to the thread (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4177&page=4) that LurkerN directed us to, starting with this post (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=101098&postcount=36), you need to do the following:
1. Flash your N800 with OS2008
2. become root
3. enter:
echo host > /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode
4. plug in your hub / keyboard / flash drive / digital camera
5. N800 complains about not recognizing the device
6. Device works anyway!
convulted
2007-11-29, 22:20
If you have the correct cable, you do not need to enter anything... it is fully transparent.
If you have the correct cable, you do not need to enter anything... it is fully transparent.
Isn't that only for devices that support OTG?
Yeah, people trying to make OTG work with the N800 are reporting intermittent problems. I think the main problem is that the N800 doesn't have the right sort of connector (Mini AB?) for OTG and auto-mode-switching.
When OS2008 is finally released to the general public (or I finally get too impatient and download the beta, whichever comes first), I'll write a couple of simple one-line scripts to switch between USB modes.
convulted
2007-11-30, 00:19
I'll have the cable next week, when I willl be able to confirm what I just said. However some people DID report fully transparent operation with "norrmal" devices.
This is still about USB OTG on the N810, right?
I know more people have N800's, but there's already a huge thread about USB host mode on the N800.
Where did you get your cable, convulted?
If you have the correct cable, you do not need to enter anything... it is fully transparent.
Is this the necessary cable for USB OTG for the N810?
http://neostar.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008801113278/pdtl/USB-cable/1003556961/USB-Cable.htm
You can't buy directly from them, but it's a start is someone at least makes it.
I'll have the cable next week, when I willl be able to confirm what I just said. However some people DID report fully transparent operation with "norrmal" devices.
Let us know when you get it, or at least what type it is and where you found it. I'm not totally clear on what kind it should be.
Yeah but how much of a draw is the external flash memory on the unit?
So, to get USB host mode working on the N800, according to the thread (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4177&page=4) that LurkerN directed us to, starting with this post (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=101098&postcount=36), you need to do the following:
1. Flash your N800 with OS2008
2. become root
3. enter:
echo host > /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode
4. plug in your hub / keyboard / flash drive / digital camera
5. N800 complains about not recognizing the device
6. Device works anyway!
Digital camera? You mean accessing the photos stored one the memory card, not the camera itself? Although, it would be interesting if we could connect a USB webcam.
http://www.verkkokauppa.com/productimages/orig/21081_01.jpg
Can you make OTG work with something like this? Or is the cable an absolute necessity?
Digital camera? You mean accessing the photos stored one the memory card, not the camera itself? Although, it would be interesting if we could connect a USB webcam.
Usually, only cheap cameras have built-in flash. Either way, accessing the built-in memory or the removable flash card on a camera should both be simple if the camera supports OTG. Most if not all non-dSLR's don't, and even lots of dSLR's don't.
My Nikon D80 does though, and I'm waiting to get to Radio Shack for an adapter to convert the non-N810 side of Nokia's cable from USB A to mini (what the camera takes).
I don't know if an adapter can in some way make a USB OTG cable non-OTG-compatible. I'm a tad confused about that, since all of my OTG devices (my Nikon D80 camera, my iRiver X5 MP3 player, and now the Nokia N810) came with cables, ostensibly because they're OTG-capable.
Actually, my MP3 player that does USB OTG has a proprietary connected--looks like a mini USB jack but with a different shaped metal housing. So, that's also a hint that these cables are usually included because they're required to use OTG with the device.
Anyway, I initially replied just to say that the N810 comes with a USB cable that (needless to say) fits into the micro USB jack on one end and has a regular, male USB A plug on the other. Getting a female-to-female plug for regular USB A would let you then use any USB A-to-whatever cable instead of finding an adapter for everything.
Or, find an adapter for what you need. It depends on what cables you've got lying around and what you'll be using this for.
kotzkind
2007-12-10, 21:21
I don't know if an adapter can in some way make a USB OTG cable non-OTG-compatible.
You just have to connect id and ground at the host (OTG A) side:
http://media.maxim-ic.com/images/appnotes/1822/1822Fig02.gif
some users have reported that they don't have to switch on the n800 to host mode manually when they connect pin 4(id) and 5(ground)
http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=106415&postcount=116
Anyone experiment with usb mice or keyboards?
convulted
2007-12-10, 22:04
USB keyboard should be a breeze. I have even connected a wireless USB mouse to my N800 via a normal cable (using the `echo host > ...` command) and got some garbage output into /dev/input/mouse0 whenever I moved the mouse. I also got the cursor displayed. The key problem is that I dunno how to connect the two :)
Everything should be identical on the N810.
kotzkind
2007-12-10, 22:09
Anyone experiment with usb mice or keyboards?
It should be the same as on the n800 with os 2008:
http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4177&page=4
(from post #36 on should be intresting for you)
jgallen23
2007-12-10, 22:30
I bought this for my n800 http://www.twstore.com/gcusbafxm.html and decided to upgrade to the n810, will that adapter work with the n810?
sparkling
2007-12-10, 22:47
The pictured item will not connect directly to the N810.
N800 = Mini receptacle
N810 = Micro receptacle
jgallen23
2007-12-10, 23:01
well that sucks.
Karel Jansens
2007-12-10, 23:49
well that sucks.
It's not as if it's been a closely garded secret or something.
convulted
2007-12-10, 23:50
Do you know how much it would cost to ship it to the UK? I could take it off your hands; that website does not ship internationally AFAIK.
USB keyboard should be a breeze. I have even connected a wireless USB mouse to my N800 via a normal cable (using the `echo host > ...` command) and got some garbage output into /dev/input/mouse0 whenever I moved the mouse. I also got the cursor displayed. The key problem is that I dunno how to connect the two :)
Everything should be identical on the N810.
USB keyboard works perfectly, but the mouse I have seems to suck too much power, i'll to find a cheaper generic laser mouse. How did you manage to get a working cursor?
gemniii42
2007-12-16, 13:57
Just to keep this thread alive and not start a new one -
I've checked ALL the posts twice and out of all 100+ posts it seems that only the Neostar cable (http://neostar.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008801113278/pdtl/USB-cable/1003556961/USB-Cable.htm) looks like it can do anything to solve our problem.
I need to be able to hook up standard thumb drives and 2.5" external drives (like WD 250Gb passport) I would expect to have to provide external power (AA battery/ies).
Has anyone found a solution?
Don't we just need a USB A female-female adapter in conjunction with the included Nokia cable to be able to plug in "regular" USB?
Don't we just need a USB A female-female adapter in conjunction with the included Nokia cable to be able to plug in "regular" USB?
What I have learned in this thread, the answer is no. Check out the N800 host-mode experiment thread too for more information.
I thought that the N810 is in a different boat for USB OTG host mode.
gemniii42
2007-12-16, 15:56
Don't we just need a USB A female-female adapter in conjunction with the included Nokia cable to be able to plug in "regular" USB?
If it is that simple why hasn't anyone done it and reported how to do it?
We will probably require an adapter with some sort of "power injection".
/edit for dsylexic keyboard
The power issue is a seperate one. The easy and obvious method would be using a powered hub for which you could also build a battery pack, no?
Anyway, what we're talking about is the required cable, regardless of whether the device you want to use will need extra power or not.
for what it's worth, I managed to get a self-powered external HD connected to the n810. I just used the standard cable with a Female/female usb (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2646) adapter to connect all the cables together - no other hardware. The instructions are the same for the n810 as it is for the n800. I want to do some throughput tests but haven't had a chance to yet.
gemniii42
2007-12-16, 20:55
for what it's worth, I managed to get a self-powered external HD connected to the n810. I just used the standard cable with a Female/female usb (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2646) adapter to connect all the cables together - no other hardware. The instructions are the same for the n810 as it is for the n800. I want to do some throughput tests but haven't had a chance to yet.
Great!! that's what I was talking about!!
and
The power issue is a seperate one. The easy and obvious method would be using a powered hub for which you could also build a battery pack, no?
Anyway, what we're talking about is the required cable, regardless of whether the device you want to use will need extra power or not.
Actually the thread is USB 2.0 OTG on N810, and if the device requires power you will not get it to work without it.
I would prefer not to haul around an adapter plus a powered hub, I would like to be able to use a minimal battery pack to power a thumb drive.
Great!! that's what I was talking about!!
And it's exactly what I said to do.
Actually the thread is USB 2.0 OTG on N810, and if the device requires power you will not get it to work without it.
Thanks for the attitude, but the topic I was replying about was something specific: the USB cable or adapter needed to use the N810 in host mode.
Besides, you're not exactly right with your statement as the N810 does seem to provide power, just not enough current for all types of devices.
And there's no reason to address the power issue anyway unless I were talking about specific devices and whether or not they need more power. The question of how to boost the current if you need to isn't a mystery. You just need to decide on your own solution. Portable hubs get pretty small, but if that's not small enough get a Y-cable to power the device via a battery pack while it's connected to the N810.
Google will tell you how to build the battery pack and it will also find you the Y-cable you need for a couple bucks.
Or find something like this (though I didn't read through to see if this is specifically what you'd want): http://www.google.com/products?q=%22ZIP-CELL-B9V%22&hl=en&btnG=Search+Froogle&lmode=unknown
You may even be able to find some kind of USB adapter with a built-in battery that does the job. I'd check eBay for these kinds of things that tend to come out of Hong Kong.
Finally ran a quick test on the n810 to see the write/read speeds to my external HD. In short, write 100Megs, 37secs, read 100Megs, 30secs. Only did a single iteration so it's not a very reasonable sample size ;)
/media/usb/sdb2 # time dd bs=1M count=100 if=/dev/zero of=test.bin
100+0 records in
100+0 records out
real 0m 36.81s
user 0m 0.00s
sys 0m 4.48s
/media/usb/sdb2 # time dd bs=1M count=100 of=/dev/zero if=test.bin
100+0 records in
100+0 records out
real 0m 30.75s
user 0m 0.02s
sys 0m 11.05s
/media/usb/sdb2 #
/media/usb/sdb2 # ls -hl *bin
-rw-r--r-- 1 user root 100.0M Dec 18 12:40 test.bin
Good enough for what I need. I've been using a vosonic X's drive vp3320 with it's external power supply to do the quick test.
jgallen23
2007-12-25, 06:44
this should work, right?
http://www.amazon.com/USB-Gender-Changer-Female/dp/B000BSN4UY
pixelseventy2
2007-12-25, 18:31
this should work, right?
http://www.amazon.com/USB-Gender-Changer-Female/dp/B000BSN4UY
Yes, but probably without the auto-switching. I use one on my n800
I ran into trouble by setting the host mode enabled in my N810. Now I can't connect to Internet with my phone, but wifi works ok. Can someone please tell me how to disable the host mode (ie. the default value to put to the file that enables host-mode)?
gemniii42
2007-12-27, 12:33
RE: Gender changers -
It seems one of the best present methods for using the N810 w/ stock cable for a USB stick is to use a USB Gender Changer,A Female to A Female.
Every place I found one on the web it seems they wanted exorbitant prices for shipping ($5 and up per PIECE) and on a PIECE basis, not grouped. I did find one place (Directron (http://www.directron.com/)) I've dealt with throughout the years that sells them and lets you combine with other orders.
Thus I needed an IDE DVD burner, they had a good price on what I wanted, I ordered two of the gender changers (http://www.directron.com/usbfem2fem.html) and the burner, total shipping $8. With just 2 gender changers shipping was $7.
And for anyone that would like to take the hassle of buying a bunch of them and selling them back to the community for low shipping costs (which I thought of doing) you can get 10 of them for $25. Right now they are "on sale" for $3@ or 10 for $25.
Note - don't work for Directron, just a satisfied customer.
shivalwolf
2007-12-27, 23:39
Is there a list somewhere of the USB modules that the n810 kernel has particularly i am wondering if it has the USB-serial module (it creates a serial interface for USB devices)
Also does the n810 support creating PPP sessions does it have the ppp modules.
If both are true i am hoping i should be able to use after putting the device into USB host and having a powered hub plug in my hsdpa modem and create a connection. I have not yet got a n810 but im seriously looking at it as a replacement to my HTC universal
RE: Gender changers -
It seems one of the best present methods for using the N810 w/ stock cable for a USB stick is to use a USB Gender Changer,A Female to A Female.
Just to add to a list of suppliers. I've been using Dealextreme. It does take an agonizingly long time for things to arrive (3-4 weeks) but all my orders have come through yet. I've been using the following gender changer and they're selling it for 1.48$.
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2646
Now, if they would only start stocking micro usb cables ;)
Is there a list somewhere of the USB modules that the n810 kernel has particularly i am wondering if it has the USB-serial module (it creates a serial interface for USB devices)
Also does the n810 support creating PPP sessions does it have the ppp modules.
PPP support is in the kernel, but for USB to Serial adapters you'll need a module compiled for whatever chipset your adapter uses.
Few modules are included out of box, but pretty much any Linux kernel module can be compiled.
There's a guide to kernel and module compilation for the tablets here: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/kernel_guide_for_maemo.html
Perhaps someone can find a retailer for this:
http://www.vastercable.com/product_info.php?products_id=396
gemniii42
2007-12-28, 18:30
Just to add to a list of suppliers. I've been using Dealextreme. It does take an agonizingly long time for things to arrive (3-4 weeks) but all my orders have come through yet. I've been using the following gender changer and they're selling it for 1.48$.
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2646
Now, if they would only start stocking micro usb cables ;)
GOOD find! I searched their site for a long time and did not find that. I did inquire as to if they would have a female to micro male and they said no.
** PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE. ITS ADDRESS IS NOT MONITORED **
To reply or to add to your ticket, please use this link: Ticket 39434
ACCESS KEY: 39434Z1257229110718687408
------------------------------------------
Re: Ticket 39434, Responded
Dear George Newbury,
A new message has been added to the support request #39434:
hi, sorry for any inconvenience. we have no products to meet your needs.
Merry Xmas
rain
Sincerely,
Rain
DealExtreme.com Customer Love
Perhaps if enough of us ask for it they would start stocking it.
gemniii42
2007-12-28, 18:33
Perhaps someone can find a retailer for this:
http://www.vastercable.com/product_info.php?products_id=396
Wouldn.t you still need a female to female for most applications?
The n810 comes with a male USB to male micro.
Ideally yes, but I'm looking for pocket-sized options. This coupled with a short F to F cable would work for most products.
gemniii42
2008-01-03, 20:01
Got my A-female to A female adapter from Directron.
Plugged it in to the Nokia supplied Micro to USB data table and a 2GB thumb drive - no work, no light.
Followed the excellent instructions at the wiki (http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=HOWTO:_USB_Host_mode_on_the_N800_u sing_OS_2008wiki),
it complained but was recognized immediately!!
Gad the power and utility of this device increases daily.:D:D
Got my A-female to A female adapter from Directron.
Plugged it in to the Nokia supplied Micro to USB data table and a 2GB thumb drive - no work, no light.
Followed the excellent instructions at the wiki (http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=HOWTO:_USB_Host_mode_on_the_N800_u sing_OS_2008wiki),
it complained but was recognized immediately!!
Gad the power and utility of this device increases daily.:D:D
Hmmm... that WiKi page seem empty? :confused:
gemniii42
2008-01-03, 20:15
Don't know what I did, try this:
http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=HOWTO:_USB_Host_mode_on_the_N800_u sing_OS_2008
And Mara - it seems to be mostly your fault this works so WELL :)
My "standard" external 2.5" 120gb drive works* when plugged to its own power supply AND with the N810 connected to its own power supply, so I'm interrested: did someone try an OTG drive like this ?
* with the "USB hacked" cable discussed in the forum
X
Anyone tested this kind of storage ? (i.e. OTG disk drive ?)
thx,
X
I have the N810 running the latest version of OS2008
I have carefully read every post and every link and done additional searching. I believe I have everything setup correctly. I have the 'host' and 'OTG' apps in my extras. I select 'host' and then plug in my Nokia cable (microUSB to standard USB), the Fem/Fem adapter and then a range of USB devices. Nothing works. When I plug in I get the initial message:
"USB device not supported"
Then I get another box saying:
"Unable to connect, no file system available"
A USB sysmol appears in the Statusbar. Selecting this shows the following:
Connected to mass storage device (greyed out)
Disable mass storage device (avaialble to select)
Devices I have tried:
2 different USB SD 'jump' drives with 2gb SD and 4gb SCHC cards
An xD USB 'jump' drive
Canon S3-IS camera
A stand alone multi card reader with 4gb MiniSD SDHC card
The last reader is the only one whre the green LED goes on and stays on. The otheres either dont light at all (xD drive) or go on for a moment and then go out.
QUESTIONS:
What am I actually going to see if and when it does work?
Can I 'see' the extra card in the N810's file manager?
If so what should it be called?
Do I need to go to xTerm to see it?
Will it be visible to the media player?
What might I be doing wrong?
HELP! after hours and hours of reading and installation (hacking more like) I am so close but so far...
Derek.
linux_author
2008-02-02, 17:53
derek...
1. start your IT
2. launch xterm
3. log in as root
4. execute:
echo host > /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode
5. attach your usb cable
6. plug in your usb device
- i have successfully attached:
various USB thumbdrives (using a female<->female adapter)
a Maxtor One-Touch 120GB USB hard drive (via powered mini-hub)
Sony Cyber-shot® DSC-S700 digital camera
Cowan iAudio G3 mp3 player
- and using 'normal' mode (i.e., Otg mode):
no-name USB RS232 adapter (using usb-serial kernel modules)
- btw, after you're done with host mode, don't forget to execute (as root):
echo otg > /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode
have a happy and happy hacking!
When it works, File manager will autostart and bring up the new drive.
It'll be named by its volume label.
The file manager will not see NTFS or Linux FS. Format the SD with FAT32.
linux_author
2008-02-02, 18:28
The file manager will not see NTFS or Linux FS. Format the SD with FAT32.
- the file manager will see ext2 (my Maxtor was partitioned and formatted HFS+/ext2 - the ext2 filesystem appeared in the file manager w/no probs)
gemniii42
2008-02-02, 18:44
<snip>
"USB device not supported"
<snip>
2 different USB SD 'jump' drives with 2gb SD and 4gb SCHC cards
<snip>
I use a F2F and when I put it in host mode it says "USB device not supported" and then I can access the THUMB drive.
What is a "jump" drive?
Linux_author, thanks for rapid relpy!
I issued the echo command as directed and tried my standalone reader. It worked!
A bit more investigation revealed that I just had not hit on the right hardare combination. My reader wont see a miniSD SDHC card in it's mini slot (which is what I tried before) but it WILL see the miniSD card when inserted in the full size SD adapter and then put in my reader. In fact it will see any SD card in the SD card slot of this reader (1gb, 2gb 4gb). None of my jump drives work at all (too power hungry I expect).
BTW, the OTG and host apps in extras do also work now I know what card/reader combination works.
Thank you very much for taking the time to reply.
"When you know the key works, you try a bit harder to open the door"
BTW2 if anyone else wondered what you see when it does work, the file mamager opens automatically and describes the card by its size in the left hand list. Clicking any valid file will invoke the applicable app.
Also, the "USB device not supported" message DOES appear but the "unable to connect, no file system available" message does not if everything works.
Derek
I use a F2F and when I put it in host mode it says "USB device not supported" and then I can access the THUMB drive.
What is a "jump" drive?
'Jump' drive just one term used for a 'thumb' drive. I think every manufacturer has a slightly different name. I use the ones that take an SD card rather than dedicated internal memory.
BTW as you may have seen from my previous post it's working.
Also I discovered the file system requirement. I could not see some FAT16 CF cards in the reader that otherwise works. Thanks to the poster for this clarification.
Derek
P.S. I guess I'm off to meritline for one of their 16gb SDHC cards for $69
http://www.meritline.com/a-data-16gb-turbo-sdhc-flash-card.html:)
The meritline card works as the internal card in the n800. The URL works if you remove the trailing colon, http://www.meritline.com/a-data-16gb-turbo-sdhc-flash-card.html
For my n810 I use a mini-to-micro SD and an 8Gb sandisk microSD http://www.dz-tech.com/sandisk-8gb-micro-sd-high-capacity-microsdhc-flash-memory-card-bulk-package-p-951.html
Note on multireaders - they normally enumerate as separate logical units or separate drives and not all of them may be automounting. One Belkin wouldn't find the SD reader directly (I could go into xterm though). Under windows it would give E: F: G: H: or something similar. So if you have a multislot reader, it might be compatible, but you would need to tweak something elsewhere to get the card to mount automatically.
I did the above operation on my N810 and it said the USB device wasn't supported when I connected a USB flash drive. It also said there was no file system on the drive. But there is a file system on it. I attached a USB hard drive with separate power and it saw nothing. I used a female to female adapter on the end of the provided USB cable to connect up the flash drive. Does it require something else to connect properly?
linux_author
2008-02-03, 01:01
I issued the echo command as directed and tried my standalone reader. It worked!
- most excellent! now to do more experimenting with various hardware?
:-)
- btw, i wish there was some way to collect a repository of working devices... it would be easy to gauge non-hub requirements based on voltage requirements of individual devices, but few manufacturers put that type of information on consumer packaging...
- when i use a powered hub, i've found that i must use this approach:
1. attach power supply to hub
2. then attach to IT via USB
3. wait for hub message, and then
4. plug in the device (such as USB hard drive)
- digital camera support may be more hit-or-miss... while my cheap Sony worked [i.e., mounted] with no problem, my Canon A570IS did not... (but then again, the Canon support was also squirrely under on my older Ubuntu boxen)
:-(
- btw, i wish there was some way to collect a repository of working devices...
I had the same idea! Since none of my 'small' SD card THUMB drives work I am now looking for a good, compact single SD card reader. I'm sure others have found some that work.
I wonder if the mods know a way to craete a list by category that users can update here on ITT???
BTW, just saw a good price on a MicroUSB to standard USB cable from Newegg $2 + $5 S/H.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812189164&ATT=12-189-164&CMP=OTC-Froogle&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Cables-_-Link+Depot+Corp.-_-12189164
I believe it is similar to the one that came with teh N810.
Derek
"I never generalise"
Something else you can try when attaching USB devices is to enter the command lsusb in an xterm window. This should list something meaningful for the attached device such as maybe its name or just an ID. It gives some idea that the device is found on the USB port even if it isn't talking to it.
Hi guys,
may I ask a short question:
Did anyone already got an usb-webcam to work? It would be a great opportunity to use a higher-quality-model when you are at home ...
btw: what are the chances of using a webcam without a powered hub -> are there such models? if not, is there any-possiblity to buy some mobile powered hub, like a battery pack with an usb hub directly attached to it?
Regards
NTFS is not supported. Tried to attach my new Maxtor external harddisk.
NTFS would probably function if ntfs.ko is loaded, but you would have to recompile the kernel normally to get it. hfsplus works, but the problem is with the Mac partition scheme, which can't be fixed by loading any module. CD/DVD drives work with ufs and isofs installed with the extra SCSI drivers (usb uses the SCSI command set).
BTW, just saw a good price on a MicroUSB to standard USB cable from Newegg $2 + $5 S/H.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812189164&ATT=12-189-164&CMP=OTC-Froogle&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Cables-_-Link+Depot+Corp.-_-12189164
I believe it is similar to the one that came with teh N810.
It is also slightly cheaper here
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.6764
$4.66 + no shipping fees (but long delivery)
Should we have a driver or something for our thumb drives? Why do we get thet error msg when connected? :(
Baranman
2008-02-25, 10:31
Hi,
I tested it with an usb keyboard and a 7in1 card reader wirh 4Gb CFII card.
The keyboard works but it is an spanish layout keyboard and is working like a generic keyboard, i don´t know how to configure it but cotinue looking for this.
The card reader does not work yet
PS. Excuse my english but i'm not native
vBulletin® v3.8.8, Copyright ©2000-2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.