$43 a Year GPS!

[JeffElkins]

http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/

As some of you may know, the N810 will currently ship with GPS functionality but w/o the software required to fully utilize it. In order to do route planning or get turn-by-turn directions, you'll have to purchase a temporary license that costs $130.00 and is only good for three years.

Currently, portable GPS units are available for $100-$200 that do all that without the encumbrance of a temporary "license," that according to the website may change w/o notice.

Additionally consider that this GPS "surcharge" raises the price of the N810 to $600...and who knows if you'll be required to pony up another $130 once this license expires?

I've voiced my objections at Ari Jaaski's blog. This is a management decision that could easily be reversed prior to shipment. If you think this is ill-thought-out, I hope you'll voice your objections too. Let's ask Nokia to fix this!

Jeff Elkins

[R-R]

Looks like maemo-mapper / flite have a long life ahead on the maemo/moko platforms ;-)

[merovingian]

Guess i'll not be complaining about Navicore 2007 on my N800 then or even Windows Live Search w/Voice (*El Free* !!!) on my Treo 700Wx... :D

[Garage Battle]

i wont buy the damned thing if they do it like this. ive been saying it in every thread on this board. ill buy a Samsung Q1 Ultra for $714 before ill drop $610 on the N810.

[jhoff80]

As I've said on many different posts on this site, it costs MUCH more a year to keep TomTom maps up to date, so that's not really a onetime thing either.

Other alternatives for other devices cost even more as well- ie Telenav costs $10 a month ($120 a year, almost the same price for 3 years with the N810).

[Garage Battle]

when you buy a tomtom, you dont immediately have to pay $130 to get the navigating features....but you have a choice of paying to keep the maps up to date. also why should i pay extra for something thats already on the tablet?

[Rocketman]

Lets not forget that Nokia now OWNS Navteq. I do not feel that the N810 present good value as a GPS solution. The n810 is overpriced as it is, they REALLY shouldn't be adding an extra couple hundred bucks on top of it. Also, it sounds like the GPS implementation in the N810 is rather poor with a GPS that takes a long time to lock on and doesn't lock on to a lot of satellites.

[stewwalton]

This doesnt make sense to me, I have owned a TomTom for a few years already and havent yet felt a burning need to update the maps. If Nokia played this one properly this could be the killer app that could take the tablet from geek toy to one that appeals to the massess.

Nokia, do yourself a favour, scrap plans for license fee's.

[jhoff80]

My brother recently bought a TomTom, it had a few year old maps on it, which didn't even include the street that he lived on. Brand new unit, and in order to get something that was remotely current, they wanted him to buy new maps.

I would also prefer that the navigation features were included for free, but $130 for 3 years isn't bad at all.

(Of course, I also think $480 is overpriced for what the N810 adds, but the street price will hopefully be around $325, that'd be much more reasonable.)

[YoDude]

This doesnt make sense to me, I have owned a TomTom for a few years already and havent yet felt a burning need to update the maps. If Nokia played this one properly this could be the killer app that could take the tablet from geek toy to one that appeals to the massess.

Nokia, do yourself a favour, scrap plans for license fee's.


And scrap any plans to generate revenue to keep maps up to date and add features to the existing app.

Better yet, remove the free aspects of the app from the OS and just include a GPS utility that shows signal strength and satellite position like the cell phone and WinMo devices have been doing for years. (he said sarcastically)

I am glad you started a new thread instead of making your objections known in off topic blurbs in other threads

The following was posted by me in one of those other threads:

What isn't mentioned much is the statement I read somewhere that POI's in this 0S2008 app will launch the device's web browser if an IP addy is associated with them.

It doesn't take much imagination to think that contacts and eventually phone numbers can also be linked to this app.

What baffles me is the stink over the pay for play aspect of the navigation feature. If anyone would be skeptical of Nokia's intent it would be N800 owners like myself who have already paid for the Navicore app.

When this new feature was announced I felt for sure that we were somehow being screwed by Nokia. As further info became available I found that current Navicore licensees can simply enter their code and enjoy all the features.

Nobody getting boinked here. In fact non Navicore owners are getting the essential features for free by simply upgrading their OS. Looking at the navigation set up screens shown for the new device...

http://www.forum.nokia.com/pics/wayfinder_and_duke.jpg

It looks to me like the only feature (other than voice) missing from the free version is "find location"...

http://files.myopera.com/yodude/blog/options.png

All this stink and "subscription" talk is prompted by one line on the Wafinder site "36 months license of Wayfinder Navigator™ for your Nokia N810i"
I happen to read it as providing 36 months of support.


3 years is a long time to provide support for a Navigation program on a single device. In the same time period in the past, TomTom running on a WinMo PPC has gone from version 3 to version 7 requiring more money from users twice.

Hell, the dang WinMo device has changed 3 times and I don't even think TomTom 7 will run on a 3 year old device.
(BTW, in addition to the original purchase price, a subscription IS required for TomTom Plus services like POI updates and Traffic info.)

My question is this: Why would someone think that complaining on an enthusiasts forum about the price of additional features for an app that Nokia has given to us gratis would change anything?

The big story remains:

Nokia has given early adopters of the N8** series new, free features like GPS location, Maps, and video software.

I actually feel good about my decision to purchase the N800 when it first came out and don't think I'm missing a dang thing. :)

(BTW, that^ feeling was much different 3 months ago :D )

Now what do you propose Nokia do about the people like myself who have already purchased Navicore? Give us a $100 credit in the Nokia store and just say "Well that's technology for ya"?

I for one want additional features (even more than what premium offers now). How will that be possible if it is given away for free?

I read the 36 months license differently. I see it as a guarantee that any additional features and map upgrades will be included during that time frame.

Is there any other navigator product that makes the same offer?

[Moonshine]

Shouldn't this thread be titled "$43 a Year Navigation and Routing!" ? After all, the GPS is there and fully functional. For customers like myself, that's good enough.

Even still, if someone can't justify $43 a year for navigation, then do they really "need" it? That's like $3.59 a month. Pretty much a latte or gallon of gas these days.

Like anything, if there are better options available, the market will move on.

[JeffElkins]

I am glad you started a new thread instead of making your objections known in off topic blurbs in other threads

My goodness, is that addressed to me? If so YoDude, I don't think I've been off-topic regarding GPS at all. I've posted in a GPS thread, a "will you buy" thread, and finally in response to a thread originator who voiced my exact same objection.

I believe I've been polite, and I'll continue to be so. I'll also continue to voice my opinion in pertinent threads, unless a forum moderator tells me to zip it.

Jeff

[stewwalton]

I think the point is that after paying a fair amount of dollars for the N810 it kinda sucks to have to spend more to get navigation working. My take on it is it should work straight out of the box, which will then provide a more compelling reason to buy for non geeks. Nokia can still charge for updates to maps/ software in a similar way to TomTom.

That would also make me more likely to upgrade from my N800.

[mobiledivide]

The N810 is not a GPS navigation unit it's a linux MID. You can install GPS navigation on a Dell laptop why don't you ask Dell to give us free navigation software?
I'm not if full agreement however I think that the better subscription model would be weekly, monthly, yearly leases like the smart2go app that Nokia sells on S60

[DataPath]

It feels kinda weird that they're giving us the maps for free, and charging a subscription for the voice and routing.

As other people have said, with car gps systems, you buy the system, and the MAP upgrades cost.

Hey, that's cool. I'd love that model. If the maps I got are working for me, I pay zip, zilch, nada. If I want new maps, I buy new maps.

But to pay for V&R, and then pay for it again in 3 years? It just feels... wrong.

So hey, I think I can live with that. They want to give us maps for free and charge us for the V&R, well, I don't see what's stopping us from coming up with our own V&R.

The N810 feels like a much nicer device when I pretend that Wayfinder doesn't exist, and remember that MaemoMapper does.

[YoDude]

My goodness, is that addressed to me? If so YoDude, I don't think I've been off-topic regarding GPS at all. I've posted in a GPS thread, a "will you buy" thread, and finally in response to a thread originator who voiced my exact same objection.

I believe I've been polite, and I'll continue to be so. I'll also continue to voice my opinion in pertinent threads, unless a forum moderator tells me to zip it.

Jeff

Easy big fella,

I said just the opposite of what you are taking exception to.

I am glad you started a new thread instead of making your objections known in off topic blurbs in other threads

[JeffElkins]

Easy big fella,

I said just the opposite of what you are taking exception to.

You are 100% correct sir. I read (and replied) with haste. Please accept my apologies.

Jeff

[stewwalton]

The N810 is not a GPS navigation unit it's a linux MID. You can install GPS navigation on a Dell laptop why don't you ask Dell to give us free navigation software?


I recognise this but thats not my point. I want the Internet Tablet to be as successful as possible and I think this is a missed opportunity. By offering navigation software to N810 owners straight out of the box it would become much more appealing a proposition (and therefore sell in much greater numbers)

Your comparison to Dell is spurious; Nokia have released a MOBILE device with built in GPS is it really that much of a stretch for people to expect it to offer navigation software?????

[Nikem]

Your comparison to Dell is spurious; Nokia have released a MOBILE device with built in GPS is it really that much of a stretch for people to expect it to offer navigation software?????
Maps are not included with the GPS-Receiver-Hardware, and I bet the NACTEQ-deal was after Nokia made a deal with wayfinder to provide the maps for OS2008. The Maps aren't free and if you look at the initial price of the N800 and the initial price of the N810 you see, the price didn't went (much) up. But now a better LCD and GPS-Hardware is included.
Of course Nokia should talk with wayfinder to lower the license fee ...

[Garage Battle]

well u need to figure the reality of this also.

1. we wont own this device for 3 years...most of us didnt have the 770 more than a year till the 800 came out, and now look where we are less than a year later.

2. i cant see it helping resale value much on ebay having the wayfinder sub paid for.

3. yep.

[ColdFusion]

1. It's a licence. You can transfer it to n820, n900 and so on.

2. Why not?

3. nope.

[mobiledivide]

I recognise this but thats not my point. I want the Internet Tablet to be as successful as possible and I think this is a missed opportunity. By offering navigation software to N810 owners straight out of the box it would become much more appealing a proposition (and therefore sell in much greater numbers)

Your comparison to Dell is spurious; Nokia have released a MOBILE device with built in GPS is it really that much of a stretch for people to expect it to offer navigation software?????

I believe that the Tablet is successful if it wasn't we wouldn't be seeing continued support and the release of new devices.

Well I guess I am in a minority, I think that with the model that Nokia have in place the user can tap resources from the open source/hobbyist programming world and get their *free* software (eg the excellent Maemo Mapper) but for a nominal fee, and trust me $40 a year is a nominal fee you get professional turn by turn navigation software.
If you don't want turn by turn then don't pay for it, or use Maemo Mapper which is a great program and probably one of the single biggest triumphs of the Maemo platform.

[merovingian]

My brother recently bought a TomTom, it had a few year old maps on it, which didn't even include the street that he lived on. Brand new unit, and in order to get something that was remotely current, they wanted him to buy new maps.

I would also prefer that the navigation features were included for free, but $130 for 3 years isn't bad at all.

(Of course, I also think $480 is overpriced for what the N810 adds, but the street price will hopefully be around $325, that'd be much more reasonable.)

Sorry, but i call total *Horse Radish* on this statement of yours "My brother recently bought a TomTom, it had a few year old maps on it, which didn't even include the street that he lived on".

Unless he bought an older model TomTom from a few years ago or the street he lives on was just created, a brand new TomTom does not have "few year old maps" on it.
Even TomTom v.6 that i have on my Treo 700Wx is current up to the beginning of the year.

Be more accurate, post the model TomTom and version your brother bought.

[Texrat]

well u need to figure the reality of this also.

1. we wont own this device for 3 years...most of us didnt have the 770 more than a year till the 800 came out, and now look where we are less than a year later.

2. i cant see it helping resale value much on ebay having the wayfinder sub paid for.

3. yep.

The "obsolescence" argument is old and tired, Garage.

Not only is the N800 not underpowered as you persistently claim (nor is the N800), there's nothing forcing owners to abandon the products every time a new one comes out. Yes, the 770-to-N800 transition was done poorly but that one's been soundly put to bed.

As long as a device works for an owner, even if that's 3 years or more, then all is well. But if you're so unhappy, and see no resolution to your gripes, why are you here? Just to piss on peoples' parades?

[jhoff80]

Sorry, but i call total *Horse Radish* on this statement of yours "My brother recently bought a TomTom, it had a few year old maps on it, which didn't even include the street that he lived on".

Unless he bought an older model TomTom from a few years ago or the street he lives on was just created, a brand new TomTom does not have "few year old maps" on it.
Even TomTom v.6 that i have on my Treo 700Wx is current up to the beginning of the year.

Be more accurate, post the model TomTom and version your brother bought.

TomTom GO 300, bought around two years ago (okay it wasn't that recently that he bought it.) had software version 5.0 on it with the map version 5.something as well. The current version at the time was software 6.0 and maps 6.1 something I believe. TomTom would have been happy to let him upgrade to that software and maps for a cost, so its not that it just wasn't possible to get the new software on it. The street that he lives on has existed for over 20 years. He was so pissed off by them wanting him to buy the new maps for a unit that he had just bought that he actually returned it for a Garmin, which had his street on their maps right out of the box.