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View Full Version : Nokia takes 'the Long View' of the walkaround web


RogerS
2007-11-02, 16:57
At GigaOM, Alistair Croll explains (http://gigaom.com/2007/11/01/nokia-the-n810-tablet-the-long-view/) what the Nokia Internet Tablet is all about -- positioning Nokia to be completely ready for the open, walkaround web*. It's not about selling more devices and making money now, but owning the market later.

Croll cites Nokia's Anssi Vanjoki, EVP of multimedia, as pointing to the overwhelming need outside of the U.S. for web access to be primarily handheld and not tied to a desk. (And not tied to a single carrier for one-person/one-phone telephony.)

Nokia sees that closed platforms cripple the ability to compete in the coming world. Hence its commitment to Linux (as contrasted to Apple's approach with the iPhone). And more critically that, basically, everyone will want to access the web from anywhere, at any time. Hence the computer that you walk around with had better be suited for the web (800 pixels wide) and light enough to carry everywhere (8 ounces or less).

This strategy explains such disparate events as the accelerated release cycle (three NIT's within 20+ months), the size- and price-discrepancy compared to the UMPC, and Nokia's support of the open-source community.

Nokia is taking the long view, Croll says, and when the walkaround web is firmly fixed in place, Nokia will be farther along on the learning curve making the devices we will all want. And be most firmly situated in the public's mind as the company that gets it.
__________
* My term, not his.Read the full article. (http://www.internettablettalk.com/2007/11/02/nokia-takes-the-long-view-of-the-walkaround-web-2/)

benny1967
2007-11-02, 17:07
What was really, really interesting for me to read was the following:
Not so in the rest of the world. Infonetics estimates that 47 percent of all mobile subscribers come from the Asia Pacific region, 36 percent from Europe, the Middle East and Africa, and only 9 percent from North America. Nokia alone will ship 400 million handsets this year, and most of those devices can surf the web. Geography, power consumption, and lack of wired infrastructure mean that much of the planet will see its first web page on a portable handset.
I wasnt aware of these figures.

RogerS
2007-11-02, 17:16
I wasnt aware of these figures.
Really, who was? As Croll points out in the preceding sentence, we in North America tend to have a distorted sense of connectivity.

Boy, is that true!

benny1967
2007-11-02, 17:18
Really, who was? As Croll points out in the preceding sentence, we in North America tend to have a distorted sense of connectivity.

I'm from Europe :D

RogerS
2007-11-02, 17:23
I'm from Europe :D
And how better to illustrate my point about American self-centeredness, what?

Milhouse
2007-11-02, 18:47
And how better to illustrate my point about American self-centeredness, what?

Don't worry, we're used to it! ;) :D

AbelMN
2007-11-02, 19:08
Read the full article. (http://www.internettablettalk.com/2007/11/02/nokia-takes-the-long-view-of-the-walkaround-web-2/)

I like the "walkaround web" concept. I bought a N800 this summer (400 €, Aiii - how low can it go, now 229 $) and had a lot of fun using the internettablet on café & terraces all over Europe. Most cafés, gas stations, rail stations and hotels have free Wifi (Quality / Speed varying). Works even on the beach.
Early October I had even more fun in the US, showing off my N800 in coffee shops, hotels (video at breakfast) and -in DC - almost everywhere. I am sure I saw a bloke trying to hide his Apple Iphone in one of those huge coffee cups you have over there. He was very amazed to see the N800 perform that good and agreed: The screen of the IPhone is (too) small and the browser can't compete.
Watching EuroNews (...Dollar is now on a all-time low etc. ...) with my N800 on the Mall in DC, hooked up to Smithsonian Public Wifi was fun ! (Tried the White House, but no WIFI and suddenly a lot of big black SUVs with privacy glass closing in).
The USA hotels provide everywhere (even Raleigh, NC) excellent and fast (free) Wifi (CourtYard, Hampton, Comfort Inn). Good for listening to Dutch internet radio without any problems. Calling to the NL and within the US of A with Skype from an Alexandria terrace alongside the Potomac during lunchtime (28/82 degs, sunny) for 2 cts/min makes your day!

Fly, Drive, Walk and Talk Around Concept. Love it.

heavyt
2007-11-02, 19:23
[Don't worry,
we're used to it! ;) :D
Thanks. But I Believe we are about to 'wake up' with the start of Sprint's WiMax.

Ray
2007-11-03, 01:03
The screen of the IPhone is (too) small and the browser can't compete.

So is the browser of the N800 that much better than the one in the 770?

In my experience the 770 built-in browser is the worst part of the IT.
I don't know whether Nokia or the makers of Opera are the ones to blame,
but the awful combination renders the IT to an unusabe state for me.

Ray

geneven
2007-11-03, 01:24
The N800 also has MicroB, of course. I've been using the browser for almost a year now, and it doesn't strike me as unusable.

Ray
2007-11-03, 01:47
The N800 also has MicroB, of course. I've been using the browser for almost a year now, and it doesn't strike me as unusable.
So maybe the MicroB implementation for the 800 is better than the 'version' for the 770.

On the 770, MicroB is in pre-alpha state at best. Nothing works anymore,
it simply trashes the whole system, so you'll have to reflash the unit:-(

Ray

benmhall
2007-11-03, 02:14
So is the browser of the N800 that much better than the one in the 770?

In my experience the 770 built-in browser is the worst part of the IT.
I don't know whether Nokia or the makers of Opera are the ones to blame,
but the awful combination renders the IT to an unusabe state for me.

Ray

From my experience, yes. Both MicroB and Opera on the N800 are _much_ better than they were on the 770, ITOS2006 or 2007HE. I think it's the RAM and CPU diifference as much as anything. I found the browser quite unstalble on the 770 (especially with multiple windows). Browsing with the N800, I've only had a couple of crashes and normally have several windows open. (Flash enabled, too.)

If I still had my 770, I'd install Seatbelt for sure. It sounds like it cures many of the browsing woes with the 770. (Haven't tried it, though.)

Getting back to the subject of the thread, this was a great and insightful article.

AbelMN
2007-11-03, 10:04
So is the browser of the N800 that much better than the one in the 770?

In my experience the 770 built-in browser is the worst part of the IT.
I don't know whether Nokia or the makers of Opera are the ones to blame,
but the awful combination renders the IT to an unusabe state for me.

Ray
Don't know about the 770, but the N800 with Opera or MicroB works fine with me. However I learned that fast Wifi helps a lot. I normally use Opera.

neoluddite
2007-11-03, 19:19
Improved still/video camera support that captures what the user sees as against the user will solidify positioning within the mobile walking WWW community.
Like it or not, image/video is now considered a vital component and reasonable imaging, editing and management is crucial.
Much of the rest of the space is being defined nicely.
Add a basic 3mp (for now - 5+ by next year?) auto focus rig to the ability for handling 90+% (at a guess) of the current internet standards in protocols, resolutions, etc.. in the simple N810 form factor which is rapidly being dialed in as optimal for portability coupled with pda/office/communications software with secure personal data storage at or below the existing price point.....

Does anyone not believe this is the next big thing world wide?

Ubiquitous docking cradles be they desktop/wall mount/Foleo-like pretty much guarantees computing for mostest

Ray
2007-11-03, 23:55
If I still had my 770, I'd install Seatbelt for sure. It sounds like it cures many of the browsing woes with the 770.
Thanks for the 'Seatbelt' hint. Too bad I didn't hear about it before.

If I had known about it, maybe I'd think differently about my 770...

Ray

BTW: Also thanks to the other people who replied.

Bottom line seems to be that the N800 is more stable regarding web browsing,
and maybe the N810 will be too.

So maybe I'll get a N810 later, at least if I'm not satisfied with my OQO,
which should arrive within the next two weeks;-)

Milhouse
2007-11-04, 00:20
Anyone with unstable 770s should keep an eye on bug #2006 (https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2006) as a memory corruption bug has been found and fixed by Serge and Fanoush - well done both! Hopefully a firmware update will be forthcoming in due course, but it's unlikely that it will be from Nokia at this point in time.

mobiledivide
2007-11-04, 00:22
Still convinced that people step into the world of mobile internet with crazy expectations. I crash Firefox on my browser (Core Duo 2 gigs of Ram XP) nearly every day, I never even try surf the web on my symbian phones anymore because you can't do that for more than 5 minutes without an error. On the IT I can surf a full battery cycle (4 hours) without a crash using google reader to read my obscene number of feeds. Why is my experience so different than some others?

Texrat
2007-11-04, 02:40
That's a good point, md. IE7 crashes on both may laptop and desktop regularly.

neoluddite
2007-11-05, 13:17
...... On the IT I can surf a full battery cycle (4 hours) without a crash using google reader to read my obscene number of feeds. Why is my experience so different than some others?

Likely a combination of empirical learning and inherent device stability.

From my own personal experience, more often than not, firmware devices pass/fail with more regularity. If you are sharp enough to observe failure patterns and couple that with a habit of (consciously/unconsciously )working within the device boundaries, the butt-sore user experiences others complain of - "It should just work like my (insert shiny rabid fanboy brand name here) or it's a total piece of crap!" - go largely missing.

Chronic support cases typically remain blind to glaring issues usually avoidable by simply paying attention. Their user experience and opinion often are skewed towards devices designed to the lowest common denominator or ones they have somehow magically gotten right.

Nature is still a bore.

dont
2007-11-07, 16:55
Anyone with unstable 770s should keep an eye on bug #2006 (https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2006) as a memory corruption bug has been found and fixed by Serge and Fanoush - well done both! Hopefully a firmware update will be forthcoming in due course, but it's unlikely that it will be from Nokia at this point in time.

Reading through this bug trail was very interesting, and ultimately very disappointing.

> Also can you comment how
> Nokia would handle this or at least push it to appropriate people (Quim?) who
> can provide the answer?

I'm not working with 770 anymore, so from my point of view the case is clear:
there won't be any official updates or fixes coming to 770.

If Nokia do not find a way to issue this fix then I won't be buying any more devices from them.

Milhouse
2007-11-07, 17:28
Yes, the lack of interest from Nokia is dissapointing, but that is just the opinion of one employee and someone more senior with a more customer focused attitude may be willing to see this fix appear in a future Hacker Edition release.

Texrat
2007-11-07, 17:44
If Nokia do not find a way to issue this fix then I won't be buying any more devices from them.

Key word in that reply was *official*. That response doesn't necessarily affect what will or won't be done in future Hacker Editions.

Milhouse
2007-11-07, 19:42
Key word in that reply was *official*. That response doesn't necessarily affect what will or won't be done in future Hacker Editions.

To be honest Tex, if it's not fixed in a future HE update it will be shocking (to me at least) and reflect very badly on Nokia - here we have a situation where the community has provided Nokia with the fix for a memory corruption/crash bug in system firmware that Nokia have at times ignored or failed to track adequately (lost emails, apparent lack of interest etc.) and all Nokia now have to do is accept the patch and release it in a future firmware (ie. OS 2008 HE).

The signs thus far that this will happen are not positive, although I admit Kalle does not speak for Nokia as a whole. This bug has been mentioned in the developers mailing list, but maybe the bug and the patch needs to be brought to the attention of the powers that be? :)

Texrat
2007-11-07, 21:33
I have to tread carefully there.

dont
2007-11-07, 22:33
Key word in that reply was *official*. That response doesn't necessarily affect what will or won't be done in future Hacker Editions.

From my reading of the bug thread the code involved would not get changed for an HE release, at least not for a 2007HE release. I don't think that we know for sure what will happen in a 2008HE release - or if the one Nokia employee working part-time when he feels like it on HE will ever get around to making 2008HE.

(Added later: I guess this phrase may be seen as being unfair to the guy working on HE for us. I am sorry, that was not my intention - I was really trying to blame Nokia for providing such minimal resources to maintaining the 770).

Regardless of this, I think that a fatal flaw in a less than two year-old product should be fixed officially and not by a 'hacker edition'

Nokia did not find the problem, they did not fix the problem. Two non-Nokia volunteers did all the work for them without much help from Nokia.

All they have to do is make up a new flash of OS2006 with this fix in it.

Nokia: Just do it.

Take 'the Long View' of your customers, please.

Texrat
2007-11-07, 23:20
I can take exception to some of your sour grapes but I know how those dialogs turn out so I won't waste my time or yours.. Still, you can choose to be pessimistic and gripe, or take a positive approach and lobby for improvement. Personally I'm real impressed in the professional approach fanoush and the other guy are taking. THAT is a Linux community at work. Hopefully certain Nokia employees are open to learning from their example... but beating on them is unlikely to be that agent for change. Neither is ranting here.

tso
2007-11-08, 01:50
Still convinced that people step into the world of mobile internet with crazy expectations. I crash Firefox on my browser (Core Duo 2 gigs of Ram XP) nearly every day, I never even try surf the web on my symbian phones anymore because you can't do that for more than 5 minutes without an error. On the IT I can surf a full battery cycle (4 hours) without a crash using google reader to read my obscene number of feeds. Why is my experience so different than some others?

i think the diff is that while firefox on the desktop support session recovery, that isnt a option on the 770. as in, when the browser crash, you go back to square 1. its like browsing in pre-firefox times.

dont
2007-11-08, 15:06
I can take exception to some of your sour grapes but I know how those dialogs turn out so I won't waste my time or yours.. Still, you can choose to be pessimistic and gripe, or take a positive approach and lobby for improvement. Personally I'm real impressed in the professional approach fanoush and the other guy are taking. THAT is a Linux community at work. Hopefully certain Nokia employees are open to learning from their example... but beating on them is unlikely to be that agent for change. Neither is ranting here.

I am sorry that my original post did not communicate well.

I was not intending to beat on a Nokia employee.

I was certainly not criticizing fanoush et. al.

I was intending to beat on Nokia management.

Texrat
2007-11-08, 15:37
I was intending to beat on Nokia management.

Understood. Sometimes it's deserved (did I just say that??? :eek:).

One thing to keep in mind is, as Milhouse insinuates, one coder's opinion in a bugfix thread does not necessarily reflect policy. In addition, sometimes it does and the decision is out of that person's hands. Which is why a professional approach can work wonders whereas an emotional appeal may backfire. I can tell you right now that the Finns are generally not very receptive to the latter, but can be to the former. If the proper business case is made (which unfortunately is difficult in this case) that helps a LOT. ;)