[Canola] Canola does not live up to the hype, suffers from usability issues. [Archive] - maemo.org

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suryavanshi

2007-12-22, 07:44

technut

2007-12-22, 08:03

Nice attitude.

This isn't Microsoft you know, this is a small team working their butts off. Oh wait, Microsoft isn't perfect either, even with hordes of programmers.

Oh yeah, and Canola cost you how much?

suryavanshi

2007-12-22, 08:13

I am neither a Microsoft user nor do I care about how microsoft does business.

I am a Linux user and I truly believe that open source model of development provides the best solutions, applications, documentation and support. Thats is the reason I bought the N800.

Canola might have had done better if it were open source with people like you and me contributing to documentation, feedback, etc.

technut

2007-12-22, 08:21

Personally, I'm grateful for ANY free software.

I'm not saying your comments aren't worthwhile, but why beat the guys down prior to offering your suggestions for improvement? If you had paid for it, then maybe you'd have some justification for griping about the state of the release, but that's not the case here.

In the spirit of open source, maybe you'd like to offer the Canola team your time to improve on the things you are complaining about?

Rocketman

2007-12-22, 08:25

This is a BETA release. If you have substantive, particular complaints, document them in detail, suggest a prefered behavior and submit them to the authors. The Canola team has been working their butts off and they are quite responsive to community feedback.

suryavanshi

2007-12-22, 08:29

if canola was open source i would have!

also I am sick and tired of this philosophy that some how open source is inferior to any proprietary crap. firefox, ubuntu, apache, php, mysql, and so many other apps prove contrary to this philosophy.

For a closed source project, all i can do is give feedback after release, which is exactly what i have done.

if they can take the feedback and act on it, i will try and use the software, otherwise i am quite happy with opensource alternatives like UKMP

weatherman

2007-12-22, 09:44

Meh. You have legitimate concerns, and I absolutely agree with you that whether you're a small fry or a big software house, whether your software is free or for a fee, you should have the same standards when it comes to usability and being error free. But I have to agree with Rocketman - as beta software your comments are better suited to a developer's feedback forum and your tone should be one of helpfulness not *****ing and moaning. Oh, and give the open-source-horse a rest; it might be in their best interest to set the source free, but it also might not. Just because it's not open source doesn't mean it's evil.

yabbas

2007-12-22, 10:59

Right - guys.

Canola have a great dev team who are only too open and happy to hear about our concerns as long as they're voiced well enough - and I don't personally see any issues with what suryavanshi has said. I'm sure critique won't be taken in any negative light - quite the opposite really - it helps build better software.

I think some of what suryavanshi has said is true. Beta or not - there are usability issues that need to be addressed and its better to address those now than later.

suryavanshi: there's a feedback form on canola's page where you can voice your issues.

Also - there is #canola on freenode where you can voice concerns, issues, etc to the team directly.

I was on #canola yesterday for the first time and I can tell you they're a great bunch of guys who WANT feedback! Positive or not!

handful

2007-12-22, 11:21

=)
Critics are way more welcomed than compliments for the simple fact that they test my arguments =)

So let's go :

I will start with one thing: Usability taken a back seat. Sorry it didn't. This was the driven, and we changed the things were wrong in canola1, we improved them, we make things more consistent and everything in my sight is better now.

examples:
1) no scrolling arrows in home screen (in our usability studies people didn't saw those)
2) outside of application configuration (too complicated for end users)
3) no indication of what was a folder, what was an item (it's already on the configuration part will enter the regular part)
4) no shuffle / repeat easy way to do
5) no way to create playlist (already designed going into final version)
6) no way to generate properly video thumbnails (ready to go in the final version)
7) REAL, usable, not a batch download cover art : READY, more usable than that I can doubt (take a look at my videos at WUD in marceloeduardo.blip.tv ) you slide the cover you get meaningful suggestions you choose, and if you're mistake.. duh you can go back and change for that specific single version.
Now the real problem : we are a small company and thus we need to comply with legal rules and it's illegal to download album art (or lyrics as one of our plugins did) so they were unfortunately removed. We are thinking a way to override that.

that said, I can tell you that usability was more than that.. we entered Ia did a lot of research with the deadline we had, but we still a pretty small team, and the deadline was not set by us. So the beta is 80% complete, we needed real feedback (I believe in users really using it no lab tests) and we are going to fix what we think is really a matter for our UI / interaction vision / goal.

Amidst the hype and downed servers, Canola 2 Beta was launched. This was Canola teams first mistake.

- It was not our decision. But we cannot say that it was not a mistake. But please don't blame the messenger.

Either it should have been released before or well after the release of OS 2008. The server debacle should have been expected and anticipated by the team

-most of people knew our plans (dec 12th) unfortunately things changes. That's the deal.

The iphone / itouch hype contributed to the Canola team concentrating too much on eye candy, with usability taking a complete backseat.

- Answered on top. I really really disagree, and we did it with all the care, avoid exagerations (like reflections, 3d and whatsoever)

1. Adequate help documentation
- It's our way, it's a beta and we have only videos and 1 to 1 help. like you can browser on the forums and see almost every single doubt answered. I am on vacations and have answered hundreds of emails that goes in my personal inbox, because for me.. each case is a case. And I also don't believe in help documentation .. if you need it you really did something wrong in the usability matter. The things that would be missing for those are the ways of downloading this or that... but this is out of the scope. Users, the ones we want to reach more,. don't read that much manuals, so our videos are the manual for the crucial things. Of course learning is a iterative process and just for the emails I already know what needs to be documented or not.

2. List of known issues
- we are writing, and there's a section for this under the development. was taken because is empty. And again: people don't read it that much (our comparisions access x email sent says that only 25% reads those kinds of plus info) and I can guarantee you a lot of people with Maemo devices don't know what a "repository is" and I think they have no need to do so : )

Animations - Choppy.
- We are pushing the hardware limits, using python and working as hard as time permits. There has been no real time for optmizations and some screens fails a little bit more (photo thumbnails) but the worst part is also tearing. it helps make things look worse. But I will not argue. I will just say : we are going to update it and maybe still a little choppy. but we prefer this than static.

Album Covers - No idea how they are downloaded.
- answered above. They were removed because of legal issues. Here goes what you said : you really should keep your right of choice and go with Kagu and UKMP that are great software powered by (Python - ported, fully binded, optimized by who? US) =) and I will still be very proud of this.

Images - Landscape ?
Yes. We want to be different, I knew that some people would hate it, but you don't like it, but you can browse the history and see how many people were really happy with it. and I am also. If you're not talking about that but that most of picutres are appearing in landcaspe : / yeah.. it's a bug :/ will be fixed.

Podcasts/Internet Radio - Cutting and Pasting URL is not easily done
- this is true. I asked a MBrowser extension to my browser buddies and will be done, if the user wants will appear "add to canola" cut and paste is not a good solution but we don't want to take the users flexibility to do not add to canola if they do not like it's podcast..etc. But Agreed is way beyond were it should be.. but we are VERY aware of that. We use canola =)

Albums - Gets repeated for each song in the album
- unm.. seems like a bug : / if it's not being fixed right now will be.

Looking forward to more concentration on usability and cutting choppy animations for smoother user experience. Better end user documentation

- Ok, if you didn't noticed.. what we want is smoother animations =) and we running against a cpu and a video bus that doesn't help us that much, and we removed a lot of them, but for example do the test with have with canola with your version of UKMP =)
put 1000 albums (album arts) and scroll. then do the same in canola. Tell me the results.

I think you just missed one thing in this whole thing : we are here to push the little bit, we pay a price (choppyness) but we are figuring out how to solve them one by one. But I really believe that most of the cases is already ok (not GOODDD) but ok, and it will improve=)

anyways, this was the best feedback, and I needed to agree with somethings disagree with others.. but in the end.. I think it's really helpful and put also my concepts in test. Of course I will not be able to please everyone with my ideas, but then I got happy to know that you guys have choice (and a open source choices)

BR

Marcelo

MikeL

2007-12-22, 11:24

To help Canola to improve please add a bug report for things you would like to see, you can check first as it may have already been been added at. https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/?func=browse&group_id=125&atid=1989

barbieri

2007-12-22, 16:13

I'd add that Canola provided and is based on a LOT of open source components, so if it's all about open source or not, some bugs you found here can be fixed by fixing those and this can actually benefit some full-open source projects to come.

For example, animations are mostly done in Edje/Evas... what we call Enlightenment Foundation Libraries. If you find them choppy (missing frames), then just cvs checkout it and start hacking... I (and the whole E team) did my best to improve it, INdT wrote the 16bpp engine, but we still know there is room for improvement, so if you are really interested in helping FS, then help us there! Lots of project use it, not just Canola, and I'm sure with this release even more projects will start to :-)

Another example is LightMediaScanner (http://lms.garage.maemo.org), it's open source and is the heart of Canola Media Scanning (that just listen for media removal/insertion and call LMS). If you find duplicated albums, mp3 not being parsed right, ... just svn checkout or git clone and start hacking! It's free, it's open and it needs you.

I could go through lots of libraries we use, and even platform components, like X11, but I think you already got the idea...

GreySim

2007-12-22, 17:21

barbieri

2007-12-22, 17:35

Actually no. You can run using OProfile and it will point you to most demanded points.

Even python debugging is available, you just need to run canola with "--profile" and it will use hotshot if installed.

GreySim

2007-12-22, 17:42

Oh, neat. Okay, 98% -> 100%. :D

jhoff80

2007-12-22, 18:02

Another example is LightMediaScanner (http://lms.garage.maemo.org), it's open source and is the heart of Canola Media Scanning (that just listen for media removal/insertion and call LMS). If you find duplicated albums, mp3 not being parsed right, ... just svn checkout or git clone and start hacking! It's free, it's open and it needs you.

Yeah, if someone could PLEASE fix this for reading WMA files, it'd be awesome. I know nothing about programming so I can't do it myself but if someone could it'd be very much appreciated.

e-motion

2007-12-22, 22:26

Amidst the hype and downed servers, Canola 2 Beta was launched. This was Canola teams first mistake. Either it should have been released before or well after the release of OS 2008. The server debacle should have been expected and anticipated by the team

The iphone / itouch hype contributed to the Canola team concentrating too much on eye candy, with usability taking a complete backseat.

1. Adequate help documentation
2. List of known issues

The above may have helped a bit with usability issues but is are unavailable.

Animations - Choppy.
Album Covers - No idea how they are downloaded.
Images - Landscape ?
Podcasts/Internet Radio - Cutting and Pasting URL is not easily done
Albums - Gets repeated for each song in the album

Looking forward to more concentration on usability and cutting choppy animations for smoother user experience. Better end user documentation

What the hell are you talking about ? This is by far the best application for the tablet. As a matter fact it was one of the reasons why I bought my 810 in the 1st place and it doesn't disappoint.

Did you pay anything for it ? No. How often do you see free software that is that polished ? Also, this is BETA, so some bugs were to be expected, but even with its shortcomings and things left on the to-do list, I use this software every single day for hours.

You can always use something else if you don't like it, but at the very minimum you could show a bit of gratitude. I would hate to be on the team of developers of Canola and read this BS.

barbieri

2007-12-23, 00:26

What the hell are you talking about ? This is by far the best application for the tablet. As a matter fact it was one of the reasons why I bought my 810 in the 1st place and it doesn't disappoint.

Did you pay anything for it ? No. How often do you see free software that is that polished ? Also, this is BETA, so some bugs were to be expected, but even with its shortcomings and things left on the to-do list, I use this software every single day for hours.

You can always use something else if you don't like it, but at the very minimum you could show a bit of gratitude. I would hate to be on the team of developers of Canola and read this BS.

E-motion, thanks for your love :-) But seriously, we don't need protection against "this", and calling what one say "BS" won't help either. Also, I (as most of devs) are open source guys and we do fight to open source it, we do believe open source tools are great and we fight against this "it's free (as in beer), don't say bad things about it".

I just replied to make the guy understand we do release open source, just not one part, but don't hate us for that... we're not evil in essence :-D

suryavanshi

2007-12-23, 02:19

Did you pay anything for it ?

I usually do not pay for software. I use open source software.

How often do you see free software that is that polished ?

I use Amarok on my desktop and I have never seen a media player more polished than Amarok. Canola as you said is still an immature beta (very definition means unpolished). Amarok is just an example. I use free (as in freedom) polished software all the time.

I just replied to make the guy understand we do release open source, just not one part, but don't hate us for that... we're not evil in essence

This is precisely my primary concern. A media player has access to a lot of private data. Whats behind the closed code worries me from using Canola? What are the coders hiding in the parts that are closed? It also raises doubts because only part of the source is open.

My feedback on the usability is also real. I have not made them up. You can see the same issues raised in these forums by other members.

All in all I am going to stay away from Canola.

kingka

2007-12-23, 02:48

oh, btw, suryavanshi, how's your n810 media player development coming along? kthxbye

Greyghost

2007-12-23, 04:36

we're not evil in essence :-D

Indeed not! Far from it! I have begin by saying *thanks* for this delightful program!:) To begin with, I think it sets a standard for graphic interfaces that many other apps for the Nx series would do well to follow.

Another tip other developers can take from the Canola team is how to take (and use) user feedback. The open attitude is refreshing and encouraging and I laud the team for that.

Let me make it clear, though, that just because the software is 'free' doesn't mean that it should be immune from criticism. In fact, as handful and you and others here have pointed out, it's just the opposite.

The Canola team is watching this forum closely for the feedback they need to improve their product, and without critical comments, they will not get it. And guess, what, neither will we! If we let them know what works and what doesn't and why, well, dang, think what Canola3 will look like!

Having said all that, I do not, at the moment, have enough info to offer any opinion other than my superficial one about the gui, above. It appears to be elegant and intuitive. I have yet to have sufficient time to play with it, but I will tomorrow and I'll post my comments for the team asap!

kingka

2007-12-23, 05:03

"I think it sets a standard for graphic interfaces that many other apps for the Nx series would do well to follow."

I've been saying this for the longest time. 90% of 3rd party app userinterfaces are rubbish. this includes most of the media players. sure it "works" and the interfaces are intuitive enough. but from a design/aesthetic perspective it looks very amateur. get someone with a professional design background to work on the front end. not some guy who downloaded photoshop of the innertetz and calles himself a designer. the first thing people notice and is attracted to is design, but what keeps people using the program is how well it works. canola is right on the mark, for the most part for design. and now they are in the process of ironing out all the kinks.

after a novelty of a pretty media player (thats buggy as hell) wore of, I'm back to using the default media player for mp3s. can't wait for the official release.

YoDude

2007-12-23, 12:24

krbvroc1

2007-12-23, 15:47

WOW!

What hype are you talking about? :confused:
I thought that it was pretty clear from the initial posts about C2 that this release would be a user BETA.
What were you expecting; a finished product?

I'm new around here, having bought my N800 about 4 weeks ago. When I first joined the forum trying to find a decent media player that works on OS2008, it seemed everyone was waiting for Canola2. Perhaps my memory is fuzzy, but I do not recall initially Canola2 being announced as a Beta. It was not until a week or so before the launch that one of the developers blogs wrote what to me seemed like they were trying to lower expectations (ie; they ran out of development time, lots of expected features would move to the future, etc.). After I read that blog, I realized Canola2 was not going to live up to the hype. Considering the current state of the beta release, I would guess there is probably still 3-4 months of work to go before there is a decent media player. Hopefully we can get some decent features in there. Right now for me, its a huge letdown.

barbieri

2007-12-23, 16:21

I'm new around here, having bought my N800 about 4 weeks ago. When I first joined the forum trying to find a decent media player that works on OS2008, it seemed everyone was waiting for Canola2. Perhaps my memory is fuzzy, but I do not recall initially Canola2 being announced as a Beta. It was not until a week or so before the launch that one of the developers blogs wrote what to me seemed like they were trying to lower expectations (ie; they ran out of development time, lots of expected features would move to the future, etc.). After I read that blog, I realized Canola2 was not going to live up to the hype. Considering the current state of the beta release, I would guess there is probably still 3-4 months of work to go before there is a decent media player. Hopefully we can get some decent features in there. Right now for me, its a huge letdown.

Ah, this is because you're new to Nokia internet tablets. Canola1 had 2 official beta and even some other updates to those, more than a year and is still flagged as Beta, although many people use it as their primary media player. If you go back in time around 1 year, you'll see that our first beta also had lots of problems, even if we did lot less than we do today and we just had one hw version to support at beginning (for beta2 we had 2 already).

That's not an excuse, if it's not up to the level you want, let us know what parts and why, that's the point of this beta.

barbieri

2007-12-23, 16:28

I usually do not pay for software. I use open source software.

I use Amarok on my desktop and I have never seen a media player more polished than Amarok. Canola as you said is still an immature beta (very definition means unpolished). Amarok is just an example. I use free (as in freedom) polished software all the time.

Yes, most of Canola developers also do, and Amarok was an inspiration for us! It set a high level that we want to keep. Some ideas we even borrowed, like the lightmediascanner keeping 2 processes to avoid the one that actually open the media and read to crash and bring down the whole app. (LightMediaScanner - LMS is open source, btw).

This is precisely my primary concern. A media player has access to a lot of private data. Whats behind the closed code worries me from using Canola? What are the coders hiding in the parts that are closed? It also raises doubts because only part of the source is open.

Any application that runs locally as your user have access to all your data, not just media applications.

INdT is a serious company and would not do such a bad thing. Making it close is not related to that and not even users, it's just the way they find their business. HOWEVER, I understand what you mean and I know this (saying indt is not evil) will not help you in any way, but I feel bad one thinking such things about us.

My feedback on the usability is also real. I have not made them up. You can see the same issues raised in these forums by other members.

All in all I am going to stay away from Canola.

Yes, we understand some usability problems, Marcelo (handful) even replied to some of your concerns, some are really design decisions and most people like, but some are really bad or bugs, and will be fixed.

As for staying away from Canola due some factors, it's your choice and no way to change that, I understand and respect, that's all... Richard Stallman, for example, doesn't use web browsers and people respect him as well.

zeez

2007-12-23, 16:40

I think people are spoiled because all these "web 2.0" sites call their finished product a beta. Today people expect a beta to be a fully functional product, not what a beta used to be...

suryavanshi

2007-12-23, 17:04

No other software BIG (Maemo Mapper for eg.) or SMALL has ever required its own support forum on ITT before Canola. Either it speaks for the intuitiveness of other apps or speaks about "suckiness" of Canola. Either way the outcome is "Canola is not usable" Enough said.

Today people expect a beta to be a fully functional product

When you release an app for public scrutiny, expect feedback. And if you get such negative feedback and a truck load of usability queries, it is advisable to go back to the drawing board. Who cares if its alpha, beta, rc or final! Public feedback was asked, public feedback was delivered.

Any application that runs locally as your user have access to all your data, not just media applications.

But if I had the source I would know that my data is NOT being misused. With Canola Who knows, why should we take your word for it, when there is no privacy policy either with the app or on your website. Google keeps saying they are not evil, I do not believe them why should i believe you?

geneven

2007-12-23, 17:06

There are a lot of interesting media players out there; Canola doesn't get a free ride any more than anything else does, and I don't think its developers expect one. For various reasons, it has been the best media player for the particular things I do, so I will probably use it more than anything else. Yes, Amarok is nice, but I haven't seen a version of it for my N800 so mentioning it is rather sci-fi...

As far as data being collected by Canola, I guess there could be giant repercussions if people learned that most of my listening is devoted to the audio version of the Economist. (Oops, now the cat is out of the bag!)

fpp

2007-12-23, 17:29

No other software BIG (Maemo Mapper for eg.) or SMALL has ever required its own support forum on ITT before Canola. Either it speaks for the intuitiveness of other apps or speaks about "suckiness" of Canola. Either way the outcome is "Canola is not usable" Enough said.

suryavanshi, I think you have a really big mouth for someone with ten posts and not much of any use in them. What exactly have you contributed that legitimates your attitude with people who do ?

BTW, I also believe that Reggie had a good idea in creating the Canola forum. Creating more such could maybe help with the present mess on ITT. As you mention Maemo Mapper : it is a fantastic piece of kit, one of the best native apps for maemo (like Canola), if not the best. Yet it is not without problems or users in need of support ; there have been many huge threads created over the past two years devoted to it, and some of the info is really hard to find now.

A dedicated forum for Maemo Mapper would probably help all parties, and would in no way reflect negatively on the quality of the software itself.

WFT

2007-12-23, 18:06

It finally installed after all the "corrupted file" messages of the last few days. No album art downloads and the video playback is so poor it is unusuable. I will uninstall it and hope that these probelms get fixed. What a shame because it has a great interface, it just doesnt work well at all. Bummer.

PJE

2007-12-23, 18:27

On the whole I've found Canola2 to be very good after I ran the album art and video_thumm python scripts (with a symbolic link from ~/.canola/covers (from memory) to by internal media card music directory).

Issues I have and would like to be improved:

1. MPlayer sound out of sync with picture. Other than that I find the Video UI to be good.

2. Caching of photo thumbnails doen't seem to be working as if I scroll the tumbnails too quickly they are shown as blank until it stops and then redraws... Once the photo has been thumbnailed it should remain available.

3. Clicking on the main video button takes you to a menu with only one item. This menu should be removed unless there are more than one items. In which case the 'My videos' page should be shrunk horizontally and the to smaller (Photo and Audio) buttons added.

4. Album covers should be grouped by artist then album rather than album name. Indeed, I think the 'Album covers' option should be removed and the covers shown (as an option) in each of the other groups (Artists/Albums/etc).

5. On the 'Album Art' screen the Group should be above the album art and the album bame below. This would free up the right hand side for a much larger list (10 would be preference).

Other than the above improvements I feel that Canola2 has met or exceeded my expectations.

Keep up the good work.

WFT

2007-12-23, 19:34

Removing MPLAYER makes Canola use the default MEDIA PLAYER so that part is now fixed (thanks to Reggie for the tip). Funny, Canola sees my album art as pictures on the device but it does not associate them with the music files. UKMP made the assocaitions automatically. Wonder why.

suryavanshi

2007-12-23, 19:40

suryavanshi, I think you have a really big mouth for someone with ten posts and not much of any use in them.

Your limbs is not longer just because you have had them for a longer time. Similarly my number of posts only reflect the amount of time i have had my N800.

Any attempt to relate number of posts to intelligence or quality of posts, defeats the purpose ;)

GreySim

2007-12-23, 19:55

But if I had the source I would know that my data is NOT being misused. With Canola Who knows, why should we take your word for it, when there is no privacy policy either with the app or on your website. Google keeps saying they are not evil, I do not believe them why should i believe you?

Just because the source is available for a program doesn't mean that the distributed versions are using that exact source. It'd be really easy to sneak something malicious into precompiled packages. Or do you go over the source of everything on your PC with a fine-toothed comb before compiling and installing it yourself? And your tablet as well? (Hey, if so, any chance you could compile python2.5-edbus without the N800/N810 optimizations and package it up for me? :P)

These guys have done all kinds of good open source work related to the program that everyone can benefit from and contribute to, and I don't think there's any real reason to be lambasting them over the fact that the source for just the absolute core isn't available. The only thing we can't do with the app is change the core UI. But once the plugin documentation is there we'll even be able to extend the app ourselves. So it all works out, IMO.

WFT

2007-12-23, 19:59

On the whole I've found Canola2 to be very good after I ran the album art and video_thumm python scripts (with a symbolic link from ~/.canola/covers (from memory) to by internal media card music directory).

PJE -- I am only 2 weeks with the N810 (and with Linux). If I could ask a favor of you -- could you explain this process you describe above in a manner that a Newbie like me could implement it? I would love to see this succeed but I do not understand the steps needed to accomplish this.

Many thanks if you would.

suryavanshi

2007-12-23, 20:02

Or do you go over the source of everything on your PC with a fine-toothed comb before compiling and installing it yourself?

Read Open Source philosophy before making silly comments as such.

But snides remarks like this are taking away from the core issues
1. Canola is unusable
2. Canola raises privacy concerns

handful

2007-12-23, 20:25

Hei guys,

first of all please don't take this to not polite situations. Sruyavanshi has his point, has the right to think that the software is crap, and say that is not usable etc. As gustavo pointed, we are quite aware of our problems (I know people are not supposed to do it, but we have been writing a lot about them in my blog, here etc).

So let's clarify some of the points

WTF: yes, Video player (Mplayer is having problems, not canola, unfortunately) and what is missing is the option to set what player to use. The whole maemo platform suffers a little bit with video, actually now days I think video on linux is always a little bit more complicated than it should be for the end users (but we all know why)

Album arts, etc: unfortunately we removed the support. We already explained. There are legal issues for that. But you are right that we didn't recognize yours. Well the point is that( we are actually listening from the users also) theres a lot of users profile :

1. heavy users (linux savvy, that actually can make scripts to export from his box to canola all his album art)

2. Linux user (he will be able to run a couple of commands, keeps his music organized)

3. the windows power user (while not used to linux CL, will propably have a organized music collections )

4. windows regular users, that can or cannot have organized music (just a folder with a lot of files)

While we can :

1) support embedded + cover.jpg/png inside de artist folder this would still leave out the people that doesn't use folders. and for us they are really important.

The thing is.. we don't want to be itunes( reorganize his music collections) but we do want to provide them covers, (downloading) and as this was the first one that we did but got removed.

So the plan in my head (Gustavo can say if someting can block us) is to have:

1) Embbedded album art support (for the real power users)
2) cover.png / jpg in a folder (but this can generate erros for a lot of people)
AND if possible downloads (legal block)

this would be the ideal. Maybe some third party developer makes the plugin for the download.

Issues I have and would like to be improved:

1. MPlayer sound out of sync with picture. Other than that I find the Video UI to be good.
>> we saw that : / it sucks, we will see if we can help the mplayer team. and also provide a options to choose the video player engine.

2. Caching of photo thumbnails doen't seem to be working as if I scroll the tumbnails too quickly they are shown as blank until it stops and then redraws... Once the photo has been thumbnailed it should remain available.

Well.. it does. The problem is : remember that you are in a limited platform, with limited RAM and we don't want to eat all your resources. While your albums can have 100 photos, to load 1000 thumbnails on the memory would be a killler.
So the white thing is actually intentional to give you the scroll feedback instead of "chopping" even more the animations because we're don't have more memory and you know that happens then. So it's actually a a trick to consume less memory and give you more freedom (believe me you will need it) to use other softwares while canola still running. so that delay is actually ours,

3. Clicking on the main video button takes you to a menu with only one item. This menu should be removed unless there are more than one items. In which case the 'My videos' page should be shrunk horizontally and the to smaller (Photo and Audio) buttons added.

>> I wrote about that in my blog. I also wrote here =) The menu is empty because some of the features are not that. I asked " please forgive this for this beta" The second part of your suggestions kills the whole design for the main menu =) imagine scrolling with a button there? no =)... but don't worry with the new apps for videos this will be improved.

4. Album covers should be grouped by artist then album rather than album name. Indeed, I think the 'Album covers' option should be removed and the covers shown (as an option) in each of the other groups (Artists/Albums/etc).
>> this is a new view in our opinion, but I think your suggestion is valid, I will add to my "pool" where I control what was more asked and etc( actually this was the guide for canola2)

5. On the 'Album Art' screen the Group should be above the album art and the album bame below. This would free up the right hand side for a much larger list (10 would be preference).

>> well this is your preference. We have a grid for the layout and we are maintaing it. So we only break it if really needed and all others screens keep the alignment. But thanks for the suggestion and I will try it out in the image edition, to see if fits to the grid and really gives this " addition" I really don't see more albums fitting because of this,
(actually do you mean on the 3 album view.. or on the thumbnail view? after reading again I was confused - sorry I'm in the balcony, in a freezing night here)

Other than the above improvements I feel that Canola2 has met or exceeded my expectations.

>> Thanks, I think now.. it's time to really put everything on the software that was meant.. there's a lot of things to be improved (like ANY software around)

But now my comment for Suryavanshi :

Hei, I was think today that you placed your critics etc. (not a problem with them) and now later you said (there's a lot of complaining from the users etc) but in your first post you didn't say the only problem that is appearing (I have the emails also not only here) that is the scrolling x clicking and our " invisible scrollbar" that makes people fell that they are not scrolling.

So, actually thinking that you would probably talk about that made me think even more about the users concerns and how we will be able to change some things as they want to increase the usability. While we are not opensource, we do listen, (actually we are not opensource also is explained in several posts around here) and this release will improve so fast next year that I think we will be able to at least reach our target users expectations.

But again : I really don't have a problem, but please lets keep this as polite as possible. We (INDT) have most of our work opensourced (Python, EFL, Carman, Mamona, LLVM, Games, BlueZ, MaemoMyth) and only a thin layer of Canola is closed not because of canola but actually because of the company business case. We do have others projects (commercial ones) based on canola that pays the bills. As gustavo pointed we t
urned from a full closed release to a fully community oriented release (EFL + python bindings + media scaner ) where everything was done in community CVS, and we are not taking.. we are actually giving everything back. So please do critic us, but see the background first. I met Urho Konttori and told him in person that we were so proud of UKMP because we are python lovers, and he was the first one to push the limits and show how great is to work with python. Now people have a nice opensource alternative. Canola has a difference vision, and we do take usability for serious (in our concept) and maybe this doesn't fit your vision of usability but come on, we do tests, we do listen to people we do late changes to improve and our focus is on usability. Transitions and eye candy are part of a pleasurable user experience, and in the end I will repeat myself:

We want to promote the platform. Not compete, not be closed because of this or that. We believe on the openness of maemo and we want to show how far can you go with it. Canola doesn't use any "secret" from the platform, is a pure python + EFL application, and in the end we want to see maemo growing. And having nice applications for several types of users is crucial for it's success.

If you want, please send me a private message, and I will also discuss any design decision with you, listen to any comments and like we do in the office " discuss" pros and cons of each alternative and see what fits best. IF you want to do so. I know you problably don't because it's closed but you have a personal invitation to do so.

About the forum : Reggie offered us, and for me (and gustavo) makes life easier in this stage where (like you said) there's a lot of issues to be solved. I gladly accepted so we can keep answering as much as possible without losing ourselves in that huge thread.

BR

Marcelo

handful

2007-12-23, 20:36

Read Open Source philosophy before making silly comments as such.

But snides remarks like this are taking away from the core issues
1. Canola is unusable
2. Canola raises privacy concerns

Hey Suryavanshi : please place one thing after your comments to be more accurate :

1. " In my and some others opinion " ... canola us ususable

Why I say that? Because while I do respect you and your opinion, please read the blogs, read the threads, I think the amount of people who's using it and like it is bigger than the ones that don't. Come on! you can throw how many stones you want but don't be blind of no seeing that people do have requests, and wanted things better (and it will be soon) but most of the comments are positive?

But now if you problem is personal, (which I would for sure wonder why) then you can talk by the others. for now I think you should make the critics like the others, for yourself, about your opinion not the others.

2. We are a closed source software, and the part that deals with your data is fully open source. The visualization layer is closed and will remain as such, but apart of that I don't see where those concerns can exist. (ok you can doubt etc etc etc - but we are not working in several fully open source projects with privacy damaging strategies in mind.

BR

Marcelo

fpp

2007-12-23, 20:47

handful

2007-12-23, 20:56

Hei fpp, please : / don't do that.

fpp

2007-12-23, 21:19

Have it your way, Marcelo, but IMHO you're being much too patient.

thomasdawes

2007-12-23, 21:38

There really wasn't that much hype about Canola2...
Just like almost every software currently in development for the iTT, they all have their usability problems. The title of this thread suffers from false advertising. I don't know if the program suffers at all. Well, maybe the download process suffered, and in turn the installation suffered, but it is usable.
What happened to the good old days when people didn't just complain? People should just offer good criticism and solutions, or sit back and wait for the developers to correct the bugs and revise the software per responses...

I've downloaded the Canola2 and it works... It displays photos, plays music and videos and I have podcast support. Yes, there are things I'd like to see (which I will provide input in the proper locations) but it is a beta piece of software and a very nice alternative to the other music/video players we have out there. Plus, currently, it is free, and you can't beat that price. (I know I know, nothing is free, but this is as close as it gets).

BTW... Windows Vista does not live up to the hype, and I believe suffers from usability issues... And I PAID for that POS....

fpp

2007-12-23, 21:51

BTW... Windows Vista does not live up to the hype, and I believe suffers from usability issues... And I PAID for that POS....

BWAHAHAHAHA... and what's more, it's been that way ever since Windows 1.0 ! :-)

iontruo2

2007-12-23, 22:46

Usability issues? Heck I can't even get the program yet. The downloads are continuing to come up as 'corrupted file etc etc'. Bizarre misleading error message and it tells what? As a base user, I am not doing backflips or 'other' mirrors or install variations. The point is The Program itself, period done. At this point it has AVAILABILITY issues.
argghhh see ya maybe in six months to a year, I hope.

technut

2007-12-23, 23:01

Heck I can't even get the program yet. The downloads are continuing to come up as 'corrupted file etc etc'. Bizarre misleading error message and it tells what? As a base user, I am not doing backflips or 'other' mirrors or install variations.There's a simple way to fix the download availability problem now:
http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=114498#post114498

p.s. It is not specific to Canola and not their fault.

PJE

2007-12-24, 00:07

PJE -- I am only 2 weeks with the N810 (and with Linux). If I could ask a favor of you -- could you explain this process you describe above in a manner that a Newbie like me could implement it? I would love to see this succeed but I do not understand the steps needed to accomplish this.

Many thanks if you would.

I was following the directions on the followinf post:

http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=112576&postcount=225

I think what they were doing is making sure the images were stored with the music files rather than in the .canola folder.

To do the above I think I needed to become root (using the becomeroot app via sudo gainroot - search for information on this).

I then ran the python scripts from my home directory (this is accessed via xterm).

One issue I had with the video_thumb.py script was I needed to add a larger default time (--time=120) to make the images more usable (otherwise I got a lot of opening credits).

Hope this was of help.

patleeman

2007-12-24, 16:57

Just a reminder that usually only the people have usability problems go on the forums to give feedback/complain.

So don't get disheartened canola team, because most of us are using it just fine and have no problems :D

handful

2007-12-24, 17:36

Hi Patleeman,

thanks =) I really don't worry too much because of this and other thing:
1) we know the issues and we have plenty of ways of solving. we are just testing / making sure we use the best one

2) we do receive excelent feedback from the website form =) And this is what counts a lot of people saying that they like, that maybe a little bit here or there should be different but they are really ok with the concepts and they understand what we are trying to do =)

So in the end, Opensource Zealots were expectable, but no problem we deal with them inside the team, so we know how to deal with the ones outside. that's why I don't get pissed. For me Suri is just like other Free software lover in tour team =)

BR

Marcelo

iontruo2

2007-12-24, 17:49

There's a simple way to fix the download availability problem now:
http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=114498#post114498

p.s. It is not specific to Canola and not their fault.

Firstly: THANKS! ;)
Secondly: My original comment was not intended to read 'hot'. More like tongue in cheek sarcastic chiding wine with a smile...:rolleyes:
(ion's disclaimer)

O.k. so I am not going to do backflips.....but o.k. I can roll (lol) with your excellent 'alternative'.

For truly the program itself and its great offering of functionality, is the key.
I just regret that it seems fellas like you and other community members who are quite savvy are having to 'work' overtime with these crazy work arounds and do damage control for someone else's disaster. Ya thats a good word for the whole debacle.

So, kudos to you guys that have helped so much, really. Just allow me to be rightly annoyed with the OS fumble and access issues by whomever.
As a project manager in other types of work, it just is not acceptable to me to see such screwups in their own specialty. The software.

nilchak

2007-12-24, 19:15

...and especially:

3. You are a dumb loudmouth.

Now, while I don't agree with Suryavanshi about Canola being totally unusable, I think THIS comment (quoted comment) brings down the level of debate to bad-mouthing.

Surya didn't really bad mouth the developers. He voiced his concerns - true or not - and laid down some of his reasons (a reasoned debate is not bad mouthing). And Marcello did take on the concerns and answered with a reasoned reply. End of topic.

I guess these kinds of convoluted reasoning happens when there is a HUGE level of anticipation from a software (or hardware) and it fails in some ways. Then we tend to tarnish the whole of the software with the same bad brush as the little parts of it which are not working. That is wrong, and that is where Surya maybe overdid in his critique of Canola 2.

BTW... Windows Vista does not live up to the hype, and I believe suffers from usability issues... And I PAID for that POS....

Again this is another of those convolutions, where we try to justify that open source (or fill in your software of criticism) can be given some slack in being bug-filled, since MS Windows is and we paid for it. I dont see why Windows being buggy has anything to do with the topic of Canola having some bugs (which Marcelllo and group have admitted as being Beta and are fixing). What is the link here ? Can someone fill me in ?

makel

2007-12-24, 20:31

Canola2 really needs maemoscrobbler support.

iamthewalrus

2007-12-24, 21:13

Hyping up was not a good idea.I tried the app and the usability seems ok at a first glance. At least better than UKMP and Kagu. I don't like the visual design though. The icons are too small and it all seems a bit vague/bland. Also I don't like the fulscreen-by-default behaviour. An app should blend in with the OS in my opinion.

icerabbit

2007-12-24, 21:46

One of the thoughts I've had is that you have to thumb all the way backwards through all the steps you took to exit the app.

Of course that prevents accidentally closing it too.

nilchak

2007-12-24, 22:04

One of the thoughts I've had is that you have to thumb all the way backwards through all the steps you took to exit the app.

Of course that prevents accidentally closing it too.

This is something I find irksome too, having to back up to the first screen. This is the same in Kagu as well.

Maybe there should be a way to implement this without an accidental close button either. Me wants the best of both waorlds I guess :D

handful

2007-12-25, 03:47

Hello

"Canola2 really needs maemoscrobbler support."
This is on our list. Actually we are "polishing" the plugin support and this is one of the requirements ( to signal when music starts, ends, 10 sec played etc)

"ne of the thoughts I've had is that you have to thumb all the way backwards through all the steps you took to exit the app.
"
You can actually hold back a little bit and go straight to home. We were going to place a home button on all the screens, but we decided to go with a hard button (menu) and the hold back options for that. The problem came when the n810 was announced : the menu button is hidden on the keyboard slide. Damn, this caught me.

"I don't like the visual design though. The icons are too small and it all seems a bit vague/bland. "

Well, this would lead us in design discussion =) but not a problem, it's impossible to match everyone's expectations. I think a theme could solve this. But I really don't think the icons are that small, also don't think at all the look vague oor bland, they have pretty clear meaning and strong features (color x illustration) to build on. The grey theme has more shapes and can go better to those who like a gestalt approach of contours and shapes, but I really disagree with the vague and bland. Apart of all of that (size) is there because we are looking forward do extensibility not the opposite.

"Also I don't like the fulscreen-by-default behaviour. An app should blend in with the OS in my opinion."

I get your point, and actually is the same I have been listening from ZeroJay and Others, and now that I understand why that, I can only say :
blend with OS? sorry, this is the default media player. 20px white board around the application area? borders? no thanks.

That's exactly why we built canola on a different design to give users a media center like experience. Like you have when you start your windows media center or your front-row. It's really not supposed to blend with windows's regular toolkit or even cocoas.

So I think this clarifies a little bit more.

In my vision we have the following:
1) we are aware of a lot of issues and working hard to fix them. most will be fixed and we also plan more features to improve the overall experience.
2) we are also aware of what we cannot do: While canola2 was tested with the option to be minimized, 75% os all the screens were ok, but quite awkward, this is not our goal. We will also not try to reach everyone, because this is just impossible. We will keep trying to simplify things, support what we can support and the most important: keep listening to those who want to share their opinions and improve the software.

Hedgecore

2007-12-25, 04:35

Everyone: I don't care how many posts Suryavanshi has, everyone is entitled to their opinion and I personally don't care much for elitism / whose genitalia is longer.

Suryavanshi: I think you're a zealot based on your comments but I'll let most of that go. I've been running Ubuntu for a year now and part of that is because of the restricted closed source driver for my Nvidia card and my DLink WiFi card. Otherwise I'd be sitting at a command prompt offline.

I think you picked an interesting project to lose your marbles over. Since Canola was first announced here Marcelo & team have been the nicest most helpful hardworking people I've ever seen here. (Sorry to the rest of you ingrates ;) ). I personally don't care whether it's opensource or not; not everybody wants to turn their project into a democracy chock full of people with more opinions than answers. If you have privacy concerns, then you can simply opt not to run it.

I don't know if a Gantt chart would satisfy you, but I've been keeping one eye on the Canola project since before v1 was released and these guys are doing a LOT given the deadlines they have. As Marcelo said, these aren't self imposed, a fact which might have escaped you.

As far as the design itself, there are a lot of plain Jane media players available for the 770. This one was supposed to spice things up. If I'm listening to music at my desk I use the built in media player. If I'm in a car or in transit, I'll use Canola. Depends on what I feel like. The "hype" wasn't because of the INdT team, it was from users who have a different opinion than you; they like it. A lot. Canola might just be the Ron Paul of the tablet world to them.

I hope I've taken a somewhat different approach in the above and rather than attack you, merely offered my opinions (and hopefully shot down lots of yours.) :D

iball

2007-12-25, 05:47

There's a simple way to fix the download availability problem now:
http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=114498#post114498

p.s. It is not specific to Canola and not their fault.

The hell it isn't Canola's fault! THEY made the decision to use a Nokia-operated repository without TESTING it first. Or at least checking the URL spelling!
THEY made the decision to NOT use their own repository. I know they have/had at least one in the past. It worked well enough for some of their experimental non-Canola stuff.
I'm sick of folks not manning up and accepting the blame for fcuking something up!
Nokia and Canola both get EQUAL blame, period.

handful

2007-12-25, 12:19

"... The hell it isn't Canola's fault! THEY made the decision to use a Nokia-operated repository without TESTING it first. Or at least checking the URL spelling!
THEY made the decision to NOT use their own repository. I know they have/had at least one in the past. It worked well enough for some of their experimental non-Canola stuff.
I'm sick of folks not manning up and accepting the blame for fcuking something up!
Nokia and Canola both get EQUAL blame, period."

Hei iball, we did get the blame, we said again (and I even made a joke about our bad karma) the thing that I wanted to explain was:

1. The team itself new about it, we tested a lot but we did find out the problem (actually in the last couple of hours) you right about that
But....
2. It's is not us that choose where it will go. Managers decided that for the first time canola was going to tableteer (almost like a certified app) and it was demanded that it should be on official repositories.

We (employees) warned but we don dictate the rules. therefore there's a slightly difference I would make to the comment, but in the end we indeed have a slice of the blame.

Now what? Lesson learned? I made a full report, including a comparison of visits in the website x emails saying "I couldn't install" and addded a lot of you guys comments here to show them that we really missed out a lot with that move. The thing is people believed it was going to be a matter of hours to be ready again, but it wasnt.

So, following our tradition to be very open, with the report, I got what the dev team wanted, when we are ready, or even a update is ready we will have our own repository and don't even matter if the official ones are in great shape.

We saw pretty clearly, that don't matter who owns the server, if a user clicks on our website and gets a file corrupted, it's our fault. And it's bad for us not for the repository.

It sucks, but it happened again (last time was dependencies madness).

Marcelo

nilchak

2007-12-25, 18:37

Hello
"ne of the thoughts I've had is that you have to thumb all the way backwards through all the steps you took to exit the app.
"
You can actually hold back a little bit and go straight to home. We were going to place a home button on all the screens, but we decided to go with a hard button (menu) and the hold back options for that. The problem came when the n810 was announced : the menu button is hidden on the keyboard slide. Damn, this caught me.

About the problem of exiting, and the solution that you mentioned - about holding the back button down for a longer time (2 secs) - which takes you back to home screen direct, and one more back will quit app - it actually works for me on my N810 also.

I didnt know of this "hidden" feature and this actually satisfies me pretty well. Rather than have one more button which will add clutter to the screen, this works for me.
Only if this feature is somehow well advertised - maybe a popup message when an user presses back button to inform of this long press feature, more people will discover it and use it to good effect.

I am increasingly finding the well thought out UI design of Canola very pleasing.
Great job Canola Team.

Hargoth

2007-12-26, 22:00

handful

2007-12-26, 22:06

Hargoth,

Hei can you please forward us for us your version etc... cause we know of this bug, and we did everything to avoid it. It passed in all of our tests, but of course sometimes something can go wrong.

so, this was really the most serious bug during our last week, and we want to hunt it down as much as possible, I would be very glad if you can send me everything you have (repositories, version of firmware etc) and if you have instaled the evas demos from Gustavo barbieri.

Br

Marcelo

Susdio

2007-12-26, 22:21

Added a comment to the bug for keyboard craziness.

There is no obvious way to 'iconize' canola2 and use other apps while playing music.
If you exit to the menu using the hardware menu key, the keyboard is disabled in all other apps.

There are other anomalies as well, but that is a killer.

So, how do you listen to Canola2 on an N810 while doing something else, like an xterm?

Thanks!

I don't experience quite that problem but I have an even bigger bug with C2 that might be related. With Canola 2 running, I loose the function for all hardware buttons (except power and hardware menu key) for all other applications. The functions return when I exit Canola 2.

AbelMN

2007-12-26, 23:43

Merry Christmas to all of you,

Hope Suryavanshi is still alive ! ;)

I have been reading this thread up until post 59 with rising astonishment. I really do not understand why Suryavanshi’s comment is seen as offending. Some (senior) members (only a few, thanks for that) should realize that there is no use for talk forums like Internet Tablet unless criticism is accepted -even when it hurts. (it always does).

I earlier had such an experience after writing a somewhat disappointed comment on Opera not being in 2008. I ended up reacting that this community - Maemo, Internet Tablet etc -. looked "like a stressed and defending community. Not necessary and not reassuring ." Later I tried to delete my message, because the discussion was getting "somewhat besides the road" .

However, reading this thread on Canola, I would like to restate my observation, because this Canola thread is sometimes "way off the road" and that is not good for Nokia and the "Open Source community". Please remember: the enemy is listening!

Regarding Canola: It’s better than Release I, my kids (28 - 30) like the looks – especially the Photo Views, but I have to agree with Suryavanshi: the manner in which this Beta version was dropped in a public environment is not helpful for promoting the Nokia tablets at all. Beta versions should only be distributed to a limited and carefully chosen group- you all know that. I do not know who is to blame for all this, but that is not my problem: I am just a poor guy who did buy his Nokia N800 for fun in July of this year for 409 € ( Aiii, did I see < 200$ ?).

I still love My N800, everything is running in OS2008, I do respect the work that has been and still is being done, but I am also concerned over Maemo, the Internet Tablet Forum, it’s contribuants and OS2008.

I certainly will watch Nokia’s steps regarding this all with much interest.

I also wrote earlier that the Maemo end TEAM people have to mature their work (architecture, alignment, quality control, etc.) rapidly, otherwise Nokia OS 2009 will perhaps be Windows CE or with Opera or Safari - or whatever non Maemo. :D

Nevertheless, I do see the potential for great success and love my N800 and the walkaround web! I did in particular buy the N800 because, as a professional (40 years IT), I am very interested in the inventive way Nokia is trying to develop the concept.

Hope you guys appreciate my comments.

(If not: I always can buy that black thing with safari (Safari? Yes, that’s how they call it on their website). Afterall I am just a stupid customer. :rolleyes:

(PS: do you realize that Nokia can’t advertise with Canola, and are you happy with that ? – just testing…) :rolleyes:

As always: Have fun and a happy OS2008 !, ;)

Abel.

NB,
I wrote above that everything is running in OS2008. There is however:
- a bug in fonts in RSS (no é or ë etc.) and

- Internet Tablet Talk makes my browser shut down or even stops the machine. Perhaps a memory problem, but I have started checking for viruses or hacking.

I know this thread is the wrong place and will put the bugs on the right zilla spot, but anyone else having these problems?

handful

2007-12-27, 10:14

Susdio,

Yes this is exactly the roblem. It wasn't supposed to exist anymore, and thus we need your specifictions to add to our test bed. Can you send us, device, firmware version used, applications that you have installed, and when you installed canola2? There was a fast closed beta, and people who installed that version founded the critical bugs for us and we ran like crazy to fix them. But I'm really sad that this one still happens.

we will do our best to fix it.

newf

2008-02-02, 20:10

I must say, I really like canola for the most part. I'm on a N800 using os2008. The interface is slick and pretty much foolproof. I do wish there was a folder tree as well as ID3 tag listing for mp3's though. And video playback isn't anywhere near as smooth as mplayer. But with the right time and polish, i think this could be THE app for media on the n800

Good work.

handful

2008-02-02, 20:28

@newf

Folder navigation is coming in the next update. We wanted to do it right. actually is not a tree, as tree ddon't work good at all in horizontal widescreens (I have been working with a huge software for maemo with that... ) but it's coming and seamless integrated and usable by all applications not only music.

Video playback is funny, if you have mplayer.... it's mplayer playingl..hitting fullscreen..canola goes almost to sleep (just listen to events) and who is actually playing is mplayer... I received a email about a user with that problem.. I don;'t know exactly what he did... but he came back saying (well I did some updates in mplayer and this and now its fine.. just like playing on pure mplayer ) what actually should be the norm.

Anyways, yes.. we are focused on improving and polishing more and more... and not wnating to be the application, but at least something that makes the internet tablet better and more atractive as product. In the end we want the platform to succed!

Laughing Man

2008-02-02, 20:33

Hmm hopefully with folder navigation comes selecting folders not to scan. Or an exceptions thing. (it bugs me when I see the album art in the pictures area..but oh well).

handful

2008-02-02, 20:47

Laughing man :

I think you are already doing that =) the settings does that.. I think the folder navigation will be for your specific media, so we will ignore other file types inside that folders...

But this is the kind of thing that we will avoid: We do know the importance of some features, but we will deliberated not attend all small issues... because if we do so, the whole idea and concept behind simplicity goes under water. "just add this.. and this and this" and you have a nice looking tree view that you cannot even see in which level you're and also.. a nice look hierarchical menu from the 80's on top of it =)

This will not happen =)

But again : if you configured you media folders.. your album art probably are not showing on photos today =)))

BR

Laughing Man

2008-02-02, 20:55

Configure my media folders? I'm sorry, don't think I understand?

The pictures folder I have are on the same SD card as my music folder(which also have album art inside the music folders) and there is a covers folder on that SD card that UMKP generated.

But I guess I can just move the pictures to another folder. Then move the manga from the other SD card onto the external and have Canola2 not scan the external for images. Hmm need to get a bigger SD card, that poster was right when 2x2 GB cards isn't enough space.

handful

2008-02-02, 21:03

Hi laughingman..

When I say configure your media folders I say :
Open canola, click on settings.. media library.. and you will find :

Audio folders
Photo folders
Video folders.

Click on one of those.. open a file browse thing.. where you "Mark" the Eye with a V the folders you want canola to specificly scan for that file type. So for example... if you have a folder called "MyPictures" and today.. you are scanning the whole "Removable Card" it's possible that the covers are showing up there..

So go there.. unselect the whole card.. and select only the folders you want to watch.

you don't need to move pictures.

But if I got correctly and you have a folder.. with music, pictures and everything inside.. then ehhehe a little bit of changing would be good =) because we can't do magic.. =)

BR

Laughing Man

2008-02-02, 21:07

Haha sorry, I'm an idiot. I just found out about that.

And no, my folders (thank god for me being a neat freak regarding my electronic devices) are setup in a folder and tag structure. So all music is in a seperate music folder, all pictures in a seperate picture folder, etc..

So basically what I was asking for was already included, I just didn't realize it. :D

handful

2008-02-02, 21:34

yeah =) that's why I was reading.. and thinking... what did you mean =)
But it's the true =) people never reads the docs / manuals =))) (no problem with that)

* the website has a lot of material this time =)

nspeer

2008-05-09, 18:06

Sorry for duplicated posts, I just want to make sure Marcelo sees it:

I have a 770 with OS2006. I began having problems with Canola 2 beta 8 after my usual MMC card became corrupted and I had to switch to another MMC card I had, although I don't know what this would have to do with Canola going bad.

Anyway, here's what's happening:

Oftentimes, when Canola tries to launch, it will go to an endless "updating media library". I have to use a StatusBar app to "kill process" in order to shut down Canola.

Even with a fresh install of Canola (after using Canola Clean-up), Canola will sporatically run VERY sluggishly. Click a button....wait 5-10 seconds, click a button...wait etc. Many times it will just hang and I have to "kill process" to shut Canola down. Only other processes running are the Google search applet on desktop, simple launcher, and Osso-Statusbar-CPU.

As far as Podcasts go:

After clicking "my feeds" and waiting a long time for the little 'C' shaped animation at the bottom to finish turning, I click a download arrow on the right. Nothing happens for a while. Eventually, a download begins to SLOWLY happen. Then as the download nears 100%, Canola freezes and reboots my 770. Upon reopening Canola, I have to try and download the podcast all over again. If the download does finish w/o a reboot, clicking to listen to download causes the 'C' to spin again, then stop with all zeros displayed for length of podcast and elapsed time. The tablet freezes up and I have to "kill process" with the statusbar app. Sometimes I get a sort of "split screen" effect where a portion of the right side of the Canola screen is duplicated followed by an auto reboot.

I have used cleanup to delete and reinstalled Canola 3-4 times (after I disabled all repositories except Maemo and Maemo Extras as Handful recommended)...still the same problems.

Help!
thanks,
Neil

handful

2008-05-13, 22:20

Hei, don't need to do this :) I read everything, I was out because was my b-day :)
I needed some party :))))

Marcelo

GeraldKo

2008-05-13, 23:40

Hei, don't need to do this :) I read everything, I was out because was my b-day :)
I needed some party :))))

Marcelo

Happy Birthday, Marcelo :)

handful

2008-05-14, 10:46

Thanks Gerald :) my engine is 2.8 now, and ready to rock one more year :) lot's of interesting things to do this year, and the new team (Canola-Carman) is currently under heavy training :) we will be back to full speed development soon!

Marcelo

josiahg777

2008-05-20, 04:51

Happy Birthday!

And thanks to all of you for such a great media player!!

Kudos for the great tip on one-click back to menu nav :)

handful

2008-05-20, 04:56

Thanks! don't forget to check out BETA9 :)
BR

MArcelo

josiahg777

2008-05-20, 05:01

You bet I will as soon as I get 'net access :) I've got problems connecting to my home network because of the way I've got it set up :/ But as soon as I get out of the house tomorrow I'll update! I'm really looking forward to it/salivating over the release thread :P

It looks wonderful! I'll post over in the release threads when I've tried everything out!

Thanks again!!