View Full Version : Microsoft Origami
There is currently a flash video of the upcoming MS Origami at http://www.d-kitchen.com/launch_center.htm -> Enter -> Work -> Brand Theatre.
By the looks of it it's a convergence device like the Nokia 770, but quite a bit larger, and features 'fun' applications like graphics, messaging and games. It won't be a true pad computer, a handy communication device like the Nokia 770, but rather a competitor to the PepperPad, converging more closely with the bulky tablet PCs.
Wow, that thing is hella huge! I think I'll stick with my 770 till someone comes up with something better. I don't know what consumer market that thing is targeted to, but it must be for the few hundred giants in the world or something.
I think MS had to leak Origami to sort of compete with the apple rumors floating around. :D
It won't be a true pad computer, a handy communication device like the Nokia 770, but rather a competitor to the PepperPad, converging more closely with the bulky tablet PCs.
I agree. For now I can't see the difference between a tablet PC and this origami but the OS of course.
Try to fit it in your pocket !
db
Jeffgrado
2006-02-27, 15:04
Blast, another thing to play WMV files on. Yes, it is big! I agree that it's more of a Pepper Pad competitor, but still, anything small that uses the internet is a competitor to the 770, since people are only going to buy one of them (if that). Having compatibilty with your home computer is a big plus, though, like in the last part of the video.
If you check out engadget.com, you'll see a story on this device/hardware platform that says the video is a year or more old. The author of the blog entry also suggests that Microsoft released the video in response to Apple rumors about tomorrow's new product announcements. I don't know that there is even a release date on this type of device.
Also, the Sony e-book reader has been given a price of $350, so I would guess that this is the price point set for portable tablet style devices. In the meantime, you can get a smallish notebook computer for less than $1000; the dualcor cPc is expected at $1500, and the Oqo is $1800. It will be interesting to see where this Microsoft thing comes in in terms of price and features, and how aggressively they are interested in taking this market. This may be the kind of thing where the cost to the consumer is partially subsidized by Microsoft, like the XBox. Of course, with a gaming system, you sell games to make up profit, so the model is a little different.
thoughtfix
2006-02-27, 18:42
Hmm ... People are going to just wet themselves when the Nokia 770 gets fleshed out and can run Firefox, portable Firefox extensions, and has enough CPU power to watch Flash movies. That and some platform fixes are all it needs. It'd be a contender against anything Microsoft pushes.
It will be interesting to see where this Microsoft thing comes in in terms of price and features, and how aggressively they are interested in taking this market.
If it can run Halo convincingly, it can't be too cheap. But Microsoft may yet be desperate to capture a sizable corner of the market, with all the new pad devices sprawling to the market (Intel, Apple?) it seems there is vendor interest and with nice marketing videos like these, people will start to think padded life is something they should try out. (It could be that Nokia/770 will benefit from this Microsoft move...) If you think ahead you can see that pad computers may become the new strategic battleground for OS dominance.
Of course, not only does it not have a release date, but worse, Microsoft has not yet even announced it. This means they can back off, never let the device leave Redmond, and still not lose face.
So what? Obviously tablet PCs are "in". The problem is that none of them really works (including the 770), and the origami is just vaporware. I'm supposed to wet my pants on WHAT?
Let's see if Apple can get it right tomorrow, but my hopes aren't very high.
the origami is just vaporware. [...] Let's see if Apple can get it right tomorrow, but my hopes aren't very high.
I must say that I agree with Jerome's idea, unfortunately... The mini-tablets for less than 500$ are not really around the corner. The mini-tablet that can run games such as Halo, that can be connected all-day without power cable and that works flawlessly... well that one might well be around next corner. :D
Anyway the Nokia remains my personal favorite to-date :rolleyes:
So what? Obviously tablet PCs are "in". The problem is that none of them really works (including the 770)
I am glad you said that. That the 770 doesn't work quite right either. I like it but it frustrates the hell out of me at times. I hope the next version that comes out will be a lot better. The form factor is perfect for me though. Truely pocketable. The MS thing is a bit big. And kind of Fisher Price looking :)
Jeffgrado
2006-02-28, 14:20
The thing I want is the notepad keyboard that is shown in the video. Make it smaller or the 770 and it would be perfect.
FYI: Nokia has a very nice foldable bluetooth keyboard.
shinysteve
2006-02-28, 21:43
I've never been very pro-MS but taking this thing on rough-specs alone (not on year-old videos and plastic mock-ups,) it could be very close to my ideal CarryPad (http://blog.carrypad.com) (click to see carrypad blog)
We all know that there's a gap above the 770 (more processor power, fold-out keyboard) and i'd argue that not too many people actually put 770's in their pockets. To be honest I rarely even put my pocket pc in my pocket as I always have some sort of bag with me. If thats the case, then what so bad about a 7" screen? Now obviously, if you make an XP-based device, you've got to run 800x640 resolution as a minumum so 7" screen is probably the physical minumum for productivity at those resolutions which I think leaves the door open slightly for Apple and Nokia here. A Nokia '880' priced at Euro500, with a better processor and better with a 6" screen and fold-out keyboard is going to really hit the mark for me. No bloated operating system, no need for 512Mb ram. Just pure sofa-surfing perfection.
Cheers.
Steve.
... i'd argue that not too many people actually put 770's in their pockets.
I carry my 770 with me, in my pocket, everywhere. That is one of its single most-appealing qualities (for me).
I refuse to lug around a tablet (or laptop) that will not fit in my pocket. If it can't fit in my pocket, it'll end up on my dresser or nightstand and never move, so it might as well be a desktop.
The same goes for the folding keyboard that I use with the Nokia 770.
Of course, that's just me. There are certainly plenty of people willing to carry around a laptop, so a 7" screen might appeal to them. But at that point, I imagine, it's more about weight and less about volume, unless you want to carry it around in something bigger than a pocket but smaller than a laptop bag (like a purse).
i carry mine in my coat pocket, and in my back jeans pocket, as i did with my ipaq, clie, and visor before it. an no, i've not yet sat one one, a pda in a jeans pocket is just large enough to be a constant reminder that it is there. And yes, I use it as a PDA, and no I don't care that it can't sync. I don't use a desktop app much anyway. if GPE-PIM didn't run on the 770 i wouldn't have got it
shinysteve
2006-02-28, 23:15
I can see how it would fit in a coat pocket and I guess that depends on where you live in the world really. If you have a coat, its going to sit nicely in the inside pocket.
A jeans pocket seems a bit of a squeeze but then i'm uncomfortable if I put so much as a bus ticket in my jeans pockets!
But I understand you. A Nokia is a really small device and that size will apeal to certain people. It just doesnt match my spec yet and becuase its soooo close, it really annoys me!!
Regards
Chippy.
I carry the 770 in a hip bag with my wallet and cell phone. Not quite a purse, but bigger than a pocket.
But I also carry my backpack with me during the day. Me, I'd prefer a 5- or 6-inch screen.
I understand Nokia's choices in making the 770 this size. Clearly a lot of people won't buy anything bigger. But I imagine the whole spectrum of sizes will be filled with devices soon enough. People have laptops and desktops, they have PDAs, and they're very familiar with the limitations of them all, which the 770-style internet tablet (generic reference) responds to.
shinysteve
2006-03-01, 09:22
RogerS.
You're right about the spectrum of sizes. They will all be filled soon.
There's a definate sub-group (i wouldnt call it a major group) of people that need the web-browsing experince (800 pixels wide) in a pocketable device.
Pockets PCs cant really devliver that efficiently so I personally think that we'll see 6-7" becoming more popular as a (mainly) home-based (sofa, bed, car) device. There's a definate gap in the market (pepperpad and nokia have seen that gap better than others) and the target group is ripe for a marketing 'hit'. They're 30-something, tech knowledgable and understand the meaning of 'consolidation.' and 'simplicity.'
If someone comes along and say 'look, you hardly ever use that laptop becuase it take 2 minutes to turn the damn thing on.; How about a stylish looking wall-mountable 'carrypad' that hangs on your kitchen/bedroom/lounge that you can even throw in the car and take on holiday too. The kids will love it!'
Regards
Steve 'Chippy'
i definatly have plans to build a wall hanging device like that, wouldn't need to run on batteries, but would still need low power.
I actually carry my 770 in a Burro Pak, which is an old out of production "sholder hoster" for a PDA. Just don't go reaching for it around jumpy policemen.
dskeeles
2006-03-01, 17:44
I bought the 770 to be an 'around the house' casual internet-access device; opening and powering up a laptop is too much hassle, and existing WiFi-enabled PDAs have too small a screen.
An Origami-type device, I think, would be a full-on competitor to the 770. As a home device, it'll beat the 770 on media system integration, and a massive software development base (who potentially see a large user base of paying customers).
However, the 770 looks like it'll beat Origami on battery life, ease-of-use, and most likely price; I can put mine down, forget about it for a couple of days, then pick it up and use it, still with full battery power, and with instant-on access. Most MS devices are lucky to last a working day. The screen is gorgeous, and the media abilities are currently passable.
It's simply a question of whether Nokia (or someone) can get some decent software on the thing - that is to say, Media Centre remote control and integration, Plug-in Widgets, decent IM clients, etc. We're starting to get there on the basics, and who knows, we might get all of them by the time MS roll out their offering, probably with usable hardware, and more comprehensive and better-integrated software already packaged in.
Damian
kheiligh
2006-03-07, 21:53
It's simply a question of whether Nokia (or someone) can get some decent software on the thing
Damian, i think you hit the nail on the head. This, i think, is going to be a HUGE example of open source vs. corporation. already i'm happy with many of the apps that have come out, and i can handle the occassional bug or shut down - this isn't a workforce computer, it's a tablet - so if the community can make things shiny and work with, say, your home media center, that would be the kicker. Having wifi & bluetooth already seems to make this an even greater possibility.
Of course, it will soon enough run Linux like any PC. The smarter manufacturers might even adopt one of the established handheld Linux platforms for its OS platform of choice.
Look at the technology vendors and their role:
Microsoft provides Windows XP. Lots of existing brand name and very little R&D costs to accomodate a mobile device.
Intel is huge on developing low-power, mobile technology. It is nice to have licensees for this technology even though it is not yet ready for prime time. But if the money will keep flowing in, one day it may dominate the market.
UMPC vendors. These will have to put it all together and somehow become more attractive to the consumer than all the other UMPC devices and their alternatives. It is them who have to deal with the press and the consumers directly. They are risking their brand name and finances in delivering and selling the actual device.
I catch the bus to and from work. The great thing about the 770 is I can walk to the bus stop with it in my pocket listening to MP3s, I get to the bus stop and check my email mooching off someones wireless (and doing that ALWAYS makes the bus turn up!) then on the bus I can watch the latest Top Gear or the IT Crowd episodes or read ebooks then back to MP3s with it safely in my pocket for the walk to work. I can't quite see the difference between this new Microsoft thing and the old Tablet PCs? It kind of reminds me of the first mobile phones. Those very cool at the time but brick like things people had in the 80s. It wasn't until the size came down that everyone started having one. The Oragami is like those brick phones. The 770 is more like a modern mobile. They just haven't got to the everyone having one bit yet but it is a step in the right direction :)
michaelalanjones
2006-03-10, 03:28
Hey, if I learned anything from Apple, it is that size matters. The Palm Pilot was small, to fit in a pocket. I saw a show on TV talking about the Origami, like it would fit in a purse, for soccer-moms. Ha! That thing is heavier and thicker than even the Newton Messagepad 2000. It is even bigger than 2 of those new mini-phonebooks stacked together. It's bigger than a box of cake mix. I thought it was supposed to be about the size of a Pop-Tart, but thicker.
It runs XP, which they think is great. What that means to me is: here come the viruses, adware and spyware. And it has a regular hard drive, so it will devour batteries. Plus, it is $1000, out of the gate. Plus, the thumb board, like the BlackBerry's, means carpal tunnel syndrome.
In my opinion, it will fail like the TabletPC and the (beloved) Newton.
Remote User
2006-03-10, 04:41
UMPC vendors will have to put it all together and somehow become more attractive to the consumer than all the other UMPC devices and their alternatives. It is them who have to deal with the press and the consumers directly. They are risking their brand name and finances in delivering and selling the actual device.
[/list]At Microsoft the arrogance compels them to approach all the hardware manufacturers with the latest, greatest idea of what kind of hardware they should all build next for the Microsoft software platform. One of the more notable disasters for all these hardware companies was the Tablet PC. The list of companies that built these things got skinned alive. Now Microsoft has convinced several of them to build a two pound thingy that runs a version of Windows (XP) that is near its end of life and costs about $1,000. I read the comments over at ZDNet today. The mockery is waist-deep over there. A two-handed, 7" display is perfect for various vertical markets but it's way too big, too expensive, too heavy and too general in focus to succeed. Microsoft's starting point for everything they do is a PC running Windows. That is, in today's world, the dumbest idea to build a new product around that anyone could come up with. Every hardware manufacturer who lets Microsoft talk them into designing yet another piece of hardware to run some silly version of Microsoft Windows deserves the failure that they invariably face.
There are more new devices similar to the origami and Intel started a web site about them:
http://www.umpc.com
Karel Jansens
2006-03-10, 11:56
Apparently, there isn't even an origami anymore. Or rather, there never was one.
According to the latest blurb from Microsoft, origami is nothing more than a software layer on top of Windows XP (rather like Windows Vista is turning out to be) for use on UMPCs.
Seriously, is there anyone who earnestly thought this would not turn out like this?
Microsoft's starting point for everything they do is a PC running Windows. That is, in today's world, the dumbest idea to build a new product around that anyone could come up with. Every hardware manufacturer who lets Microsoft talk them into designing yet another piece of hardware to run some silly version of Microsoft Windows deserves the failure that they invariably face.I don't disagree with you there.
How long will it be before there's a Linux port to the UMPC's do you think?
2 days after they ship.
it's x86 after all, so it can't be /that/ weird, hardest part will be how to boot an installer, maybe it supports usb booting...
Need to support that virtual keyboard of course.
But I wasn't thinking about the fact that a UMPC will be running XP Tablet. I guess there must be a port to TabletPC's already.
musicoman
2006-03-10, 18:33
good idea :
http://www.pcinpact.com/images/bd/news/25259.jpg
I agree with everyone who has suggested that it's not small enough to make it a real alternative to a normal tablet PC and it's too big to be a pda/IT replacement.
I'm disappointed that MS decided to cram this sort of computer down our throats. I've been waiting for something like the Antelope PC (anyone remember that?) to be made practical, cheap, powerful and ubiquitous enough for it to be my main computer. I don't even want Windows on it, but if manufacturers are going to follow MS and be focusing on this origami nonsense, it probably means I wont get what I want for an even longer time.
The Antelope was basically a PDA sized PC like the OQO, except it docked easily and quickly with a monitor and keyboard and it was even more expensive. It was an ounce or so heavier than the 770. Actually I don't know if they ever manufactured one. I think an OQO basically fits the bill, but the Antelope people had the idea that docking stations would be everywhere so you could pick up your computer at home, use it on the bus/train to work, and plop it down in a docking station at work. Need a laptop? Just plug it into a keyboard. No more PDA/laptop/desktop nonsense. Just one computer. No more syncing issues either. Am I the only one who is obsessed with this concept?
musicoman
2006-03-10, 23:25
They plan to release a smaller version in about 3 years:
http://www.pcinpact.com/images/bd/news/25260.jpg
http://www.pcinpact.com/images/bd/news/25261.jpg
Karel Jansens
2006-03-11, 00:11
They plan to release a smaller version in about 3 years:
... by which time the third incarnation of the 770 will have a direct neural interface and be powered by matter-antimatter fuel cells.
No?
musicoman
2006-03-11, 11:11
Of course but, the origami in this smaller version is pretty interessant. It's not a pda, so we can install a full linux.
Miniaturization has a cost, so if we have the origami at a laptop price, the next 770 will still have his place.
Paul Webster
2006-03-11, 15:36
They first ones do look big - perhaps too big .. but the "spec" seems to say 7-inch screen as a maximum size.
They have integrated hard-disk (hopefuly very shock-proof), 800x480 display with hardware scaling for higher resolutions, lots more memory, probably integrated camera on one model, talk about integrated GPS on another, 900MHz CPU.
They run a full copy of XP - so they will need a lot of resources - but it does look interesting to me. Especially if they start building them with slightly smaller form-factor.
Of course, if they can run XP then I imagine that someone will get Linux running on them.
Nokia might just have got their box onto the street just in time.
Of course, if the prices are 750USD and upwards then there will be a clear differentiation and expectation but if they creep downwards then - I think that the official system speed-up needs to come sooner rather than later if they want to stop the next swathe of consumers jumping for the new UMPC machines.
cis4life
2006-03-11, 16:23
Well the Origami (ultra mobile pc) is more geared to being a cross between a more portable tablet and a laptop (although by no means a replacement)
SO the 770 should be ok, UNLESS, the price are close, then ppl will be like with all the features of the UMPC, why get a 770.
Only time will tell.
Karel Jansens
2006-03-11, 16:36
I still think Nokia can bump up the RAM in the 770 to 256 mb, shoehorn in a beefier processor and still keep their price way below any 2006 UMPC.
BTW, if someone would set up their own shop to do the conversion for a decent price, I'd buy a 770 right away and they'd have their first customer. So there...
It will take a while before we can have all the software on 770 that would really benefit from such a performance bump.
As for UMPC, the hype factor is definitely huge. Or what do you think of this: http://www.blogpulse.com/trend?query1=umpc&label1=&query2=microsoft+origami&label2=&query3=nokia+770&label3=&days=60&x=14&y=8
Once again, it looks like superb marketing and lackluster technology, to me.
for this large form factor, I'd rather just get a nice sub-notebook.
If they had this thing running OSX i'd consider it (or at least Linux for gad's sakes). The fact that it runs windows makes it utterly useless for me (I'm in the design industry so its mostly macs around here). Though for quite many, the fact that it runs windows must be a big plus.
BTW, What exactly is the difference between this thing and a tablet PC? is it just the size? :confused:
like all windows products I hope this thing sinks like a brick in a tub full of helium. :D
As for UMPC, the hype factor is definitely huge. Or what do you think of this: http://www.blogpulse.com/trend?query1=umpc&label1=&query2=microsoft+origami&label2=&query3=nokia+770&label3=&days=60&x=14&y=8
Once again, it looks like superb marketing and lackluster technology, to me.
Hey, the results for the 770 are totally hillarious on the graph :D
I love it! GO 770!!!!! don't believe the hype!
I still think Nokia can bump up the RAM in the 770 to 256 mb, shoehorn in a beefier processor and still keep their price way below any 2006 UMPC.
e...
Yes How hard can that be! A beefer CPU and memory in the same pinout would not require any board design although extra heat may be a problem still I am not going to buy their first generation model. Unless I see that Nokia is committed to developing this device with new models I am not spending my money. The Origami has been heavily hyped but the truth that MS is trying to hide about it is that this first generation is going to be priced at or just over $1000 not $500.
Hey, the results for the 770 are totally hillarious on the graph :D
The difference is that 770 is really a long term goer, not a sudden boom. You could compare it with 'pocketpc' in the search - another stable long term platform. But considering that 770 has a single vendor and is a new product line, it is not doing that bad at all! (Some other search terms would fare less well, 'palm lifedrive' for example... or 'pepperpad'...)
The difference between umpc and tablet PC is that a tablet PC appears to be just a laptop with a few extra usability features. So with a tablet PC you get all the benefits of conventional laptops - you could run latest 3d games and stuff - you have a full keyboard, etc. I don't know if tablet PCs have been such a flop as people claim, the concept is interesting but I suppose sales volumes are not so high, so prices tend to be on the higher side compared to conventional laptops.
Don't forget that if you use UMPC, you need to run your antivirus and anti spyware utilities... Wonder how much resource is contributed to those software.
I don't know about that specific model, but one whose dimensions I saw is 5.5 x 8.75 inches — just about the size of THREE Nokia 770's laid one atop another.
christianhauck
2006-03-13, 09:08
I had an Apple Newton when it came out, and I always problems because of the size. It does not fit nicely into the hand. And it's not big enough to be a real Device that you put in front of you like a desktop or notebook.
More generally speaking: technology changes fast, but what does not change that much is the size of human hands, the resolution of human eyes, etc. And I think, from an ergonomic point of view, Nokia has done it just right. The 770 could be flatter, orlighter, but apart from that, it is just what it should be.
And the Origami (or else) is not. However, there are some cool ideas (like the semi-transparent virtual keyboard in the lower corners).
Looks like it might encourage 3rd parties to develop some interesting extras though - roll up cloth bluetooth keyboard anyone?
http://www.eleksen.com/?page=news/index.asp&newsID=48&mode=latest
Maybe this explains why the 770 has a cloth bag. Perhaps in a future version the bag will be the keyboard!
Karel Jansens
2006-03-13, 11:10
I had an Apple Newton when it came out, and I always problems because of the size. It does not fit nicely into the hand. And it's not big enough to be a real Device that you put in front of you like a desktop or notebook.
More generally speaking: technology changes fast, but what does not change that much is the size of human hands, the resolution of human eyes, etc. And I think, from an ergonomic point of view, Nokia has done it just right. The 770 could be flatter, orlighter, but apart from that, it is just what it should be.
And the Origami (or else) is not. However, there are some cool ideas (like the semi-transparent virtual keyboard in the lower corners).
I have a couple of Newton MessagePads 2100, and find them ideal as note-taking machines: Just the right amount of screen real-estate, not sensitive to my palm, extremely good HWR and O/S taylored to pen input.
But they are, indeed, too big to put in my pockets. If only someone invented a hinged LCD-screen...
Here's a good laugh :
http://www.umpcorigami.com/news/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4
well, there you have it folks... there's a working linux OS that runs on the thing.
someone needs to get the source and develop it further.
one thing still purplexes me...
quote: The portability of the Ultra-Mobile PC will likely appeal to international business travellers and global backpackers. :end quote
why don't they just get a subnotebook instead? the size and form factor are about the same, the hardware has had a few more generations of realworld testing, and it would also have a keyboard.
speaking of backpackers, back in the day, when my Father had to organize a research expedition to go into the mountains of Nepal, they picked the Mac Classic for the mission (the portables, if you could call it that, the one's made for instance by compaq were not much smaller back then). imagine lugging a mac classic in your backpack :-P
Remote User
2006-04-15, 00:19
If you want a good laugh at the expense of the Microsoft Origami team then read this (http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/tech/200604/kt2006041317503911780.htm) .
Thanks for the grin. Although the title is misleading : with so many things going wrong, this is much more of a "Bill gates" than a "Steve Jobs" presentation :-)
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