N810 vs. Ipod Touch

[spartanNTX]

Hello All,
I am in the market for a device with multimedia and wifi web surfing capabilities. (mostly to play music, vids on the road, and to allow the family to surf the net at home after I moved our desktop to the basement)

I am looking at either picking up a 16GB Ipod touch or the N810.
Can you please provide me with feedback on the following pros and cons list and let me know if I am missing anything?

Ipod Pros:
*approx $100 dollars cheaper
*foolproof multimedia software
*no stylus required
Ipod Cons:
*Limited media streaming capabilities

N810 Pros:
*Integrated GPS
*Keyboard
*Expandable Memory
*More customization options
*Hi-Rez screen
*Speakers
*Bluetooth (almost forgot)
N810 Cons:
*Only has 2GB storage out of the box
*Video playback requires more effort
*Expensive!!

Other stuff for your consideration:
*I want to listen to Vonage wav voicemails via the web- Is this possible (right now the iPod doesn't support wav streaming as far as I can tell)
*Is there an easy way to manage podcast subscriptions on the N810? It is very straightforward with iTunes. Thanks!

[GeneralAntilles]

For media, you're better off with an N800 (and it's cheaper than the iPod Touch). It may also be worth your time to run a couple searches on the subject, as the topic has been covered pretty extensively.

[TrulsT]

I would reccomend the N810 (which i have myself).
A friend of mine have a 16Gb iPod Touch, and of course i've been comparing them.
This is at least a list of features the touch does not have, but the N810 have, which i find important.

It has full Flash 9.
Can connect to internet via phone (bluetooth, which the touch doesn't have at all).
Has really good speakers.
Has a kick stand.
Larger screen.
Supports USB OTG.
More apps.
UPnP (correct me if i'm wrong, but i never found any way to enable/use this in the iPod Touch)
GPS.
IM.
Full Qwerty-keyboard.
Better screen outside. Tested this outside in bright sun. And here in Norway the sun can really be bright when up in the mountains with alot of snow around that reflects more light.
Memmory expandable to what you can afford (and how much space you have in your pocket for memory cards).
Possible to change battery if you have one extra.

For me it's good enough reasons to get the N810. Especialy as the screen is better that booth N800 and iPod Touch.
Anyways, hope it helps;)

[speculatrix]

-n8xx have a much higher res screen, it's larger too, so quite useful for ebooks as well as media playback
-n8xx comes with free mapping s/w, albeit basic.
-n8xx is mostly open source, so yr not dependent on the goodwill of your vendor to crap all over your DRM controlled data.
-n8xx could connect using samba to a wireless NAS
-connect with usb host to an external hard drive and DVD rom
-n8xx can handle a bluetooth keyboard

if all you want is a media player, get an ipod - or an archos!

if you want something much more, get a nokia tablet.

[CyberCat]

I was actually in a similar situation to you just a few weeks ago debating between the iPod touch and N810. I ended up with the N810, and I've been very happy with my decision.

*There's not as much price difference as you might think, the 16GB iPod touch is $400, and the N810 can easily be had for $400.

*You can quickly swap batteries on the N810 (no tools required even, handy for long trips), once the iPod's battery dies, you must recharge. Also once its battery completely dies, you have to get a new iPod since you can't replace it.

*A hardware keyboard is *VERY* nice, it beats any OSK (even Apple's) many times over in terms of usability, and speed. Also numerous games are much easier with a keyboard.

*Currently you can upgrade the memory to N810's memory to 10GB (2GB internal + 8GB microSDHC), in June 16GB MicroSDHC cards will be available, so we'll have 2GB more than the 16GB iPod. Being able to actually remove/swap/upgrade your memory is a HUGE advantage and ultimately for me was a key selling point of the N810. With the iPod you are permanently stuck with, at best, 16GB, with the N810 you can upgrade total capacity, and you can also get more cards and swap between them. Also I suspect 32GB cards may be available by the end of this year.

*I prefer a stylus to using my fingers, just try using your thumb to select between 10 closely spaced links on a web page and see which is easier, thumb or stylus. Also using your thumbs will get your new screen completely smudged up in no time.

*Get Internet anywhere you have service using your cell phone with data plan through Bluetooth.

*3x the number of pixels, great for viewing web pages without having to do all that "pinch 'n' stretch" crap.

*Even though the media player is more picky than the iPod about file formats, Nokia does have a very nice video converter to convert your movies and stuff, I've been very happy with it. Handbrake also works great if you want to watch DVDs on the N810.

*N810 has a REAL GPS. The iPod has the Skyhook Wireless pseudo-gps which only uses (select) nearby wifi hotspots to figure out where you are, this is definitely faster than using a real GPS, but the obvious problem is, what are you gonna do when you're out backpacking and REALLY need the GPS when there's no wifi hotspots around?? :cool:

*The N810 is OPEN. You're not only allowed to install 3rd party apps on the Nokias, you're encouraged! This was probably the single biggest selling point for me. There's already tones of great software available for OS2008, and there's more being made all the time. Apple has shown time and again that they will do everything within their power to keep their users from running third party apps on Apple's devices.

*Also note that the iPod touch does not have flash in the browser.


Good luck in your decison! :rolleyes:

[spartanNTX]

Good stuff guys- Keep it coming.

2 important questions that are still looking for answers :)

*Can I play wav files off the web with the 810?
*What software can I use to manage podcasts- Can the built in rss reader manage them? (ie download most current, delete month old ones)

Thanks!

[CyberCat]

*Can I play wav files off the web with the 810?


Yes, the included media player plays wavs fine. (I don't think it can play 24-bit wavs though)


Just as God_f@ther says, remember that once new Nokia Tablets come out, Nokia isn't going to leave their old users behind like Apple does with iPods. (Oh, you want feature X? Well it looks like you'll have to upgrade to the 20th GEN iPod for that! Isn't it great that we don't let 3rd party developers in?) Just look at the N800, yes it's older, but does OS2008 run on it? Yes. Not only that but with OS2008 Nokia upped the processor of the N800 to match that of the N810, I've never seen another company release an update like that for old hardware. Major kudos to Nokia, since they could have easily not even supported the N800 with OS2008.

[spartanNTX]

Yes, the included media player plays wavs fine. (I don't think it can play 24-bit wavs though)


Just as God_f@ther says, remember that once new Nokia Tablets come out, Nokia isn't going to leave their old users behind like Apple does with iPods. (Oh, you want feature X? Well it looks like you'll have to upgrade to the 20th GEN iPod for that! Isn't it great that we don't let 3rd party developers in?) Just look at the N800, yes it's older, but does OS2008 run on it? Yes. Not only that but with OS2008 Nokia upped the processor of the N800 to match that of the N810, I've never seen another company release an update like that for old hardware. Major kudos to Nokia, since they could have easily not even supported the N800 with OS2008.

Thanks CyberCat- Catching up on voicemail (+ being able to use speakers!) is a big + for the N810.

[CyberCat]

Hey spartanNTX, for your podcast stuff I recommend checking out Canola2 (http://openbossa.indt.org.br/canola2/about.html), if you like the "iPody" feel, I think you'll love it, it's intended to be a media center application so it supports a lot of stuff.

Also just for fun, I recommend have a visit over to maemo.org (http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008) which is the official software repository for the ITs (there's lots more available than what's shown, but it's a good place to start). Gives you a good idea of what kinds of things you can do with the tablets. :)

[ghoonk]

WELL? If you're going to ask a question like that here, I hope you know that you are asking comitted fans of the N-Series of Nokia. I hope you expect that the answer WILL be the N810.

If you go ask apple fan boys, I think you will get persuaded to the other side otherwise.

But honestly, GO WITH THE N810. WORTH DOUBLE AMOUNT OF ITOUCH. I have played with itouch for a long time, my friend has one. But it gets boring after awhile. There is so much future for N Series. You have to look at the future.

Nah, I'd recommend getting the N800 and spend USD150 on 2 16GB A-Data Class 6 SDHCs. How does 30GB of media space grab you? On the downside, battery life on video playback is significantly lower than on the iPod Touch. Unless you have an AA external power pack, and just keep swopping on the fly :)

[dubiousmike]

If this is meant for use in the home, you can theoretically forgo the extra local storage and play media off of shared storage on your network from another machine. I've done this on family member's machines when they had shared folders with videos and music. Not that you wont want to populate the open mini SD slot of the 810, but you don't have to run out and get the biggest memory available today. Buy a 2 or 4 gig and wait for prices to drop on the larger ones in a couple of months. I don't believe the iTouch can play networked media out of the box.

[ghoonk]

On that note, WeBot works as advertised.

As Mike says, unless you're limiting your use to around the house, you're going to need extra storage. That where I decided to forego the keyboard and GPS for 2 full sized SD slots.

However, I don't think that's the way the OP had planned to use his device, not if he was seriously considering the iPod Touch in the first place

@spartan: please explain to me how "Video playback requires more effort". I call BS on this one. If you think that having to encode and then copy the files over to the NiT is a hassle, you haven't tried converting videos for the iPod (unless you plan to get all your content from the iTunes Store, in which case, the N8x0 would be the wrong choice anyway.

Also, since you commented that the N810 is "Expensive!", ask yourself this: do you really need integrated GPS and the keyboard? Your use case was stated as:

"I am in the market for a device with multimedia and wifi web surfing capabilities. (mostly to play music, vids on the road, and to allow the family to surf the net at home after I moved our desktop to the basement)"

The N800 does this, and does this well, and if you can live with the virtual keyboard on the iPod Touch, you won't hate the one on the N800. Also, the N800 offers decent handwriting recognition, which the iPod Touch does not.

You also mention that the iPod Touch offers "foolproof multimedia software". OH REALLY? I bought one for my wife for Xmas, and I am Ipod owner myself. iTunes is decent, but wait till you have to deal with converting videos to their specific MP4 format, having to copy everything to the iTunes library and then get it to sync.

Spend a couple of minutes with the N800 and Windows Media Player 10 or later, and you'd find out that WMP10 reocgnizes the N800 as a sync-able device and you can sync your movies and music to between WMP10 and the N8x0 -- a no-brainer.

As for Podcasts, I load up my favourite podcast feeds into the RSS reader and have it update daily, download the ones I want to read. I'm not sure if there is a podcast download app that will do this automatically, so if this is a deal-breaker for you, then the iPod would be a better option.

I'll be publishing some steps on how to get NITVC, WMP10 and the N800 working in tandem closer to the end of this week once i have more time.

[spartanNTX]

OK, before you bite my head off here- I don't have a mp3/video player right now unless you count the 64K? diamond rio I have in my basement that I think held 10 or 12 max worth of MP3s. I haven't done any video encoding outside of playing with using my desktop as a media center when vista was in beta. My "effort" comment was based more on what I had read elsewhere that it was difficult to get videos to look good for the N8xx platform- I was looking for feedback if my assumptions were incorrect.

My "foolproof" comment with itunes was that I installed it w/ quicktime and it seems fairly easy use to manage podcasts and mp3s. I completely forgot about using wmp10, so that is something to consider. It also seems like Canola or the built in RSS reader will work for podcasts.

I understand I would be better off price wise with the 800 but I really prefer the form factor of the 810 and the integrated keyboard. I have a Gift Certificate from Circuit City :) so I think if the price drops to around $420 similar to amazon and buy.com I would pull the trigger. Right now the 810 is $479 vs. $379 for the 16GB iTouch (minus the new apps).


@spartan: please explain to me how "Video playback requires more effort". I call BS on this one. If you think that having to encode and then copy the files over to the NiT is a hassle, you haven't tried converting videos for the iPod (unless you plan to get all your content from the iTunes Store, in which case, the N8x0 would be the wrong choice anyway.

Also, since you commented that the N810 is "Expensive!", ask yourself this: do you really need integrated GPS and the keyboard? Your use case was stated as:

"I am in the market for a device with multimedia and wifi web surfing capabilities. (mostly to play music, vids on the road, and to allow the family to surf the net at home after I moved our desktop to the basement)"

The N800 does this, and does this well, and if you can live with the virtual keyboard on the iPod Touch, you won't hate the one on the N800. Also, the N800 offers decent handwriting recognition, which the iPod Touch does not.

You also mention that the iPod Touch offers "foolproof multimedia software". OH REALLY? I bought one for my wife for Xmas, and I am Ipod owner myself. iTunes is decent, but wait till you have to deal with converting videos to their specific MP4 format, having to copy everything to the iTunes library and then get it to sync.

Spend a couple of minutes with the N800 and Windows Media Player 10 or later, and you'd find out that WMP10 reocgnizes the N800 as a sync-able device and you can sync your movies and music to between WMP10 and the N8x0 -- a no-brainer.

As for Podcasts, I load up my favourite podcast feeds into the RSS reader and have it update daily, download the ones I want to read. I'm not sure if there is a podcast download app that will do this automatically, so if this is a deal-breaker for you, then the iPod would be a better option.

I'll be publishing some steps on how to get NITVC, WMP10 and the N800 working in tandem closer to the end of this week once i have more time.

[CyberCat]

Right now the 810 is $479 vs. $379 for the 16GB iTouch (minus the new apps).

Right now the N810 is $418.99 on amzaon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-N810-Portable-Internet-Tablet/dp/B000Y4AH3C), also on ebay.com I found 2 buy-it-now, new-in-box for only $409.99 (http://item.express.ebay.com/NOKIA-N810-INTERNET-TABLET-NEW-SEALED-READY-TO-SHIP-NOW_W0QQitemZ290200086289QQihZ019QQcmdZExpressItem )and $414.00 (http://item.express.ebay.com/New-Nokia-N810-Internet-GPS-WiFi-Tablet_W0QQitemZ230217775223QQihZ013QQcmdZExpressI tem).

[spartanNTX]

Right now the N810 is $418.99 on amzaon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-N810-Portable-Internet-Tablet/dp/B000Y4AH3C), also on ebay.com I found 2 buy-it-now, new-in-box for only $409.99 (http://item.express.ebay.com/NOKIA-N810-INTERNET-TABLET-NEW-SEALED-READY-TO-SHIP-NOW_W0QQitemZ290200086289QQihZ019QQcmdZExpressItem )and $414.00 (http://item.express.ebay.com/New-Nokia-N810-Internet-GPS-WiFi-Tablet_W0QQitemZ230217775223QQihZ013QQcmdZExpressI tem).

Yeah- I know it. I am going to try and convince my local CC to price match tonight. I guess they don't typically do it, but the mgrs do have some leeway in some cases to do stuff like that.

[dubiousmike]

I got Microcenter to price match Dell, because Dell has local stores in malls where they will sell you anything Dell in person. Last time I looked (and its what I got my 810 for), Dell was selling the 810 for $419. This way if something was initially wrong with my 810, I had a place I could return and swap it out.

Look on Dell's site to see where the closest Dell Store is compared to your Circuit City is. Go to Circuit City with the contact info for that Dell Store.

[ghoonk]

@spartan : trust me, encoding video is easy, and so is copying files over from your PC to your tablet.

are your movies in DivX or DVD format?

If you know how to copy files to and from a flash drive, you'll be very comfortable with the N8x0.

Still can't see the point of getting an N810 since you don't need GPS and a keyboard since you plan to use your tablet as a web access tool and a portable media player :)

[jh13]

i just wrote up a post about the ipod touch versus the n810 on my blog (http://dotbmp.blogspot.com/2008/02/so-every-time-someone-sees-my-n810.html)if anyone is interested. feel free to post comments if you think anything needs correcting or if you have any further opinions.

[Noonker]

Since everyone seems to be backing the n810 let me go ahead and list some very nice pros of the ipod touch.

-Beautiful
-Web browsing is fast and the pinch to zoom makes it really easy.
-the onscreen keyboard it really nice, youd think something that small would be harder to use.
-Did I mention it's beautiful?
-It is hackable, and when done. SO MUCH FUN.
-Tilting is so much fun.


Cons.

-apple

[Betty Woo]

Thought I'd toss in my newbie vote for the N800 instead of the N810.

Within two minutes of actually tried to type on the N810 integrated keyboard, I knew I'd dislike it because my fingers felt *really* cramped and awkward.

I'd quickly want to pair it up with either a Mac wireless keyboard (the very streamlined, small-footprint new one that you can see in pictures with an N800 in another thread on either this board or the one on accessories) that goes for about $80 or, for portability, the $40 iGo Stowaway on amazon.com (which is a crazy $140CAN for some stupid reason from a couple of Canadian sites).

Well... if I'm going to do that, why not just take a minor step (and a giant price drop) down to the N800? Paying another $250 for a keyboard that would drive me crazy in a short while didn't make any monetary sense at all... .

And with the N800, I picked up 2 4GB SDs on sale for $40 total so (when they get here), I'll get 8GBs to play with for music, videos and podcasts. Plenty good for long trips.

And, since I was saving so much moolah, I went on over to proporta.com and bought the neato case for $40CAN (with shipping).

If I pick up an iGo next time I'm in the States (or get my friend to pick me up one), I'll still save about $90US over the barebones basic N810 and have a pimped out N800 that has much more memory and a much more comfortable keyboard.

But if I hadn't physically tried typing on the N810 for a while, I think I would have been hard-pressed not to be wooed by the old "it's more expensive and has a bigger serial number - it *has* to be much better, non?" mindset... .

Honestly. I'd really suggest trying to type on that thing before flashing the cash. And, if it's going to be used by more than you, you may want to get other user's opinions on the keyboard, too.

Unless... unless... that was the devious ManPlan; buy something no one else likes so it becomes, de facto, yours. :rolleyes:

[Ray]

Yes, the included media player plays wavs fine. (I don't think it can play 24-bit wavs though)

But there a question arises: Why use wav on a mobile at all, when mp3 has a much smaller footprint?
Even with a bit rate of 320kbit/s, a file converted from wav to mp3 will take up about 1/5 of the original space in most cases.




Just as God_f@ther says, remember that once new Nokia Tablets come out, Nokia isn't going to leave their old users behind like Apple does with iPods.

Of course they do!

Can you run OS2008 on the 770 ?
The 770 is not much more than two years old, but you can simply forget it,
as it's very likely that there won't be OS2008 for the 770 at all.
All what's offered is a so-called 'Hacker Edition', which has its own shortcomings, like certain things not working as before...



(Oh, you want feature X? Well it looks like you'll have to upgrade to the 20th GEN iPod for that! Isn't it great that we don't let 3rd party developers in?) Just look at the N800, yes it's older, but does OS2008 run on it? Yes. Not only that but with OS2008 Nokia upped the processor of the N800 to match that of the N810, I've never seen another company release an update like that for old hardware.
Major kudos to Nokia, since they could have easily not even supported the N800 with OS2008.
As some other posters wrote, the base hardware of the N800 and N810 is the same, so there weren't many problems supporting both the N800 and N810.


Ok I have an N810 now (very nice machine BTW), but will it still be supported next year ?

Ray

[CyberCat]

it's very likely that there won't be OS2008 for the 770 at all.

Really? Well that is quite unfortunate then. I'm afraid I wasn't aware of that when I wrote that statement. I was under the impression OS2008 was available for all Internet Tablets. I definitely think Nokia should still support 770 users, especially after only two years, shame on Nokia


but will it still be supported next year ?

Yeah, I certainly see your point. I guess we'll only know next year, I hope they'll still be supported though, but I guess Nokia is the only one to decide that.

[GeneralAntilles]

Ok I have an N810 now (very nice machine BTW), but will it still be supported next year ?


Nokia has guaranteed support through Diablo for the N800, and I bet that the N810 will have support through at least one more beyond that, thus also giving support for the N800.

[Linear2202]

For what it is worth, I bought an iPod Touch and returned it after a week of use. I even had it jailbroken.
I thought the web experience was below par, the N810's is much better. The keyboard on the touch just wasn't great with my bigger fingers. I found the music playback functions to not be up to standard either. You would need to look at the touch directly to change volume or track. Canola on the 810 is a much better player.
My humble vote is for the 810.

David

[spartanNTX]

But there a question arises: Why use wav on a mobile at all, when mp3 has a much smaller footprint?
Even with a bit rate of 320kbit/s, a file converted from wav to mp3 will take up about 1/5 of the original space in most cases.

Vonage only provides voicemail as wav files via email or through their website (please spare me the "use Asterisk" comments :) )

Still haven't bought anything btw- I was tempted to buy a touch when the price dropped to 350 for a couple of days a week or so ago.

I have been pestering CircuitCity for a n810 price match on and off for the last 2 weeks. So far they won't budge- but there is a second retail store I am going to hit up sometime this week.

[dubiousmike]

Vonage only provides voicemail as wav files via email or through their website (please spare me the "use Asterisk" comments :) )

Still haven't bought anything btw- I was tempted to buy a touch when the price dropped to 350 for a couple of days a week or so ago.

I have been pestering CircuitCity for a n810 price match on and off for the last 2 weeks. So far they won't budge- but there is a second retail store I am going to hit up sometime this week.

Do you have a Microcenter near you? How about Dell Store? Microcenter will match Dell's online price since in theory you can go to the Dell Store and get the same price as on Dell's site.

[spartanNTX]

Do you have a Microcenter near you? How about Dell Store? Microcenter will match Dell's online price since in theory you can go to the Dell Store and get the same price as on Dell's site.

I would have just ordered one from the macmall- the prob is I have some xmas gift cards to kill :p

[spartanNTX]

OK- debate over. n810 dropped $50 bucks, and as a result it should be arriving in a few weeks. Thanks all!