View Full Version : internal memory HW upgrade?
Is it possible to pull out the current 64 MB memory and install a larger one? I'm not afraid of soldering, I just don't know 1) the kind of memory, 2) how easy it is to remove, and 3) whether the hardware can handle it (the software will, I'm sure).
Ted
Is it possible to pull out the current 64 MB memory and install a larger one?
I'd like to know this also. On the other day I was trying to open 770 to see if it would be possible. I had some difficulties to get circuit board away so I let it go.
1) the kind of memory, 2) how easy it is to remove,
Memory is mobile DDR (http://maemo.org/maemowiki/Nokia_770_Hardware_Specification), however I don't know how easy it is remove. Maybe some hot air blower (is this correct word?) with small nose is needed to remove it. Soldering equipment must be offcourse designed to be used with surface mounted components. I think that microscope is also needed to check correct soldering. Alas, I thing that biggest problem might be finding some mobile DDR memory chips.
3) whether the hardware can handle it (the software will, I'm sure).
If I understand ti's OMAP1710 specification (http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=11991&path=templatedata/cm/product/data/omap_1710) correctly it should handle it. It says that:
* Comprehensive memory controller for interfaces to:
o 128 MB of mobile SDRAM and mobile DDR
o 256 MB Flash (for burst, programmable NOR flash)
Have anyone gone further investigating this issue?
uNtouched
2006-03-24, 16:38
I've done the research on this and believe me, unless you can desolder and resolder a BGA chip, no dice. The chip is a Samsung I have the model # at home (I'm currently at work). My mom is a rework tech which means all she does is solder all sorts of stuff and she told me it's not something you can do at home without having a BGA machine. The memory is located all on one chip, it's one package this (http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/Support/Label_CodeInfo/MCP_3chip.pdf) is the PDF that explains the chip. Once I get home in a few hours I'll give you guys the chip model #.
dandrewk
2006-03-24, 17:05
Even if you could upgrade it, wouldn't you also have to get into the BIOS (or whatever the 770 equivalent is) in order for the unit to recognize the larger memory.
I wouldn't fool with it. Even if you could A) find the proper memory chip B) desolder and resolder it and C) update the BIOS, the OS may be written such that many internal functions exist at static memory locations, which could be thrown awry if you swap chips.
IOW, the "brick potential" is a solid 9.9.
That's unfortunate. I don't know why Nokia didn't go for 128 MB internal memory at least, but 64MB makes the 770 much less useful than it could be.
Ted
Yeah, I know that brick potential is quite high, but from time to time you just need to do some sacrifices for the sake of science. :D
BGA chip is of course bad news. I don't have tools assembling those chips. So it seems to be no go for me at least. If someone of you are ever going to make some sacrifices, please tell the results :)
I don't know why Nokia didn't go for 128 MB internal memory at least, but 64MB makes the 770 much less useful than it could be.
I think, it is still premarket unit, just to investigate, how well it will go...
At this price you can't expect somesing better, but it can match other PDA
in same price line...
I think, it is still premarket unit, just to investigate, how well it will go...
At this price you can't expect somesing better, but it can match other PDA
in same price line...
Memory prices are so ridiculously low, though, that the 64 MB difference couldn't have been more than $20. I would have gladly paid that for a more stable device.
The 770 certainly wasn't marketed as a premarket unit by Nokia. I don't like the way they are delaying the promised OS upgrade, how unstable the device is, and the complexity of the existing swap solutions. I hope the next OS release addresses at least some of the problems.
Ted
konttori
2006-03-24, 19:12
128 RAM would also have doubled the power consumption of the memory. I think that All things considered, 64 was a decent choice, but they should have allowed easy enabling of swap.
Memory prices are so ridiculously low, though, that the 64 MB difference couldn't have been more than $20
Well, but Pocket PC Tech offers upgrade for 128Mb for just 169$.
http://www.pocketpctechs.com/main~unit~Asus_MyPal_A716-100~area~upgrades~action~updateunit.htm
Think, they have reason to do it...
Well, but Pocket PC Tech offers upgrade for 128Mb for just 169$.
http://www.pocketpctechs.com/main~unit~Asus_MyPal_A716-100~area~upgrades~action~updateunit.htm
Think, they have reason to do it...
I'm talking about the price of the memory itself. Sure, aftermarket it's expensive but +64MB is very cheap at the manufacture stage.
The point about power consumption is true, but I'd rather have the memory personally. I do hope Nokia optimizes the OS for the next release.
Ted
uNtouched
2006-03-25, 03:49
As I stated earlier, I'm here with the model # for anyone that wants to know.
The chip is a Samsung KAL00100EA-DGYY
Milhouse
2006-03-25, 18:57
Forget about pocketpctechs - apparently (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1000) they couldn't even open the Nokia let alone upgrade the memory... :rolleyes:
uNtouched
2006-03-26, 02:03
How on earth could they not open it? They can figure out how to expand memory on all those devices but can't open it? Hmm, well either way, as I said it's not something that can be done at home with out an X-Ray for BGA as I believe it was Miho mentioned
How on earth could they not open it? They can figure out how to expand memory on all those devices but can't open it? Hmm, well either way, as I said it's not something that can be done at home with out an X-Ray for BGA as I believe it was Miho mentioned
Good questions! BGA only needs special positioning and heating equipment for chip replacement. The big question is whether or not the grid array is the same for both memories (the one in place and the desired one) and whether or not Nokia wired in the upper address lines. If these conditions are met, then there is an opportunity for someone to do upgrades.
Easier to wait for OS 2006, with the swap on memory card options. :)
Easier to wait for OS 2006, with the swap on memory card options. :)
I agree, this is why I haven't pursued this further, but swap is slower than internal memory, so I hope the next hardware release of the 770 will increase the internal memory. I'd gladly pay the extra for a model with enough memory to run more demainding applications.
Ted
I agree, this is why I haven't pursued this further, but swap is slower than internal memory, so I hope the next hardware release of the 770 will increase the internal memory. I'd gladly pay the extra for a model with enough memory to run more demainding applications.
Ted The price point is very important for a device like this. A memory upgrade would be nice for people like us but, let's face it, highly unlikely to happen anytime soon.
Memory prices are so ridiculously low, though, that the 64 MB difference couldn't have been more than $20. I would have gladly paid that for a more stable device.
The power consumption is probably a bigger problem (although toys like this are really price sensitive)... It could also be that their testing didn't reveal the stability issues: Not everyone seems to be plagued by them (I've had very little problems) -- maybe the usage is just different enough.
The 770 certainly wasn't marketed as a premarket unit by Nokia.
Do you mean that it was actually marketed somewhere? I haven't seen even one ad so far, and although I've been looking I haven't seen one single device at stores...
Do you mean that it was actually marketed somewhere? I haven't seen even one ad so far, and although I've been looking I haven't seen one single device at stores...
At least nokia.com had the 770 on their front page for a bit, that's how I found out about it (while looking at the 9300).
CompUSA had the 770 displayed very prominently for a while (together with the new Nxx series), though I haven't visited them recently.
Ted
Androxylo
2006-06-19, 17:01
128 RAM would also have doubled the power consumption of the memory. I think that All things considered, 64 was a decent choice, but they should have allowed easy enabling of swap.
I wonder, what do you feel to be the biggest handicap of 770 - the small memory or short battery life?
I mean, would you agree to increase memory to 128m but decrease battery life?
Would you agree to keep memory the same if Nokia comes with better battery, or would you prefer to keep the battery life the same but increase memory?
When do you feel that memory is not enough, what applications are you using at that time?
brainstorm
2006-09-06, 18:17
Hi guys, I've been reading BGA rework problems/pricing... check out:
http://www.solder.net/services/services_rework.asp
AND
http://www.solder.net/marketplace/browse.asp?category=102
Anyone feeling brave enough to try ? :-P
Hi guys, I've been reading BGA rework problems/pricing... check out:
http://www.solder.net/services/services_rework.asp
AND
http://www.solder.net/marketplace/browse.asp?category=102
Anyone feeling brave enough to try ? :-P
Why ask...I mean, what are you waiting for? When you brick your 770 I can guarantee you that it will remain a brick--no reflash for the hardware mistake.
brainstorm
2006-09-07, 08:22
... But perhaps someone else is interested on solder.net service (I'm assuming here that they accept replacing the 770's BGA 64MB DDR mobile RAM chip with another 128MB (for instance) chip provided by you, all by $50 plus the cost of the 128MB BGA chip).
Anyone crazy (and rich) enough to try ?
And of course, I know what means "hardware"-bricking a ~400$ gadget, so I will not do it ;)
PD: I'm also assuming that, according to earlier posts, the RAM chip is BGA, anyone has high-res photo's of the 770's PCB and IC's apart from the one posted earlier (http://www.linuxdevices.com/files/misc/nokia_770_internal_assembly.jpg) ?
brainstorm
2006-09-07, 08:51
As I stated earlier, I'm here with the model # for anyone that wants to know.
The chip is a Samsung KAL00100EA-DGYY
Are you sure ? According to:
http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/common/partnumbersearch.aspx?partnum=K4&cd1=&x=6&y=5
All memory part numbers start with "K4", ok, I understand that it could be a typo (A for 4). But I cannot find the rest of the part number on samsung :_/ Could you try to reread/find a matching datasheet on samsung ?
Here is an easy to follow part number guide:
http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/Support/Label_CodeInfo/Mobile_SDR_DDR_code.pdf
Thank you !
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