View Full Version : Amateur Radio and Internet Tablets: Lack of Software
scumgrief
2008-03-01, 00:11
There are so many different types of specific software applications for the Nokia Internet Tablets, but there is one I have not come across of: Using the IT's as Digital Amateur Radio clients.
I understand the sparse presence of amateur radio operators in this community, but the potential is next to unlimited.
Before we go any farther with this idea, we need a sure idea if this device is capable of this type of operations. Digital Radio in the ham world is basically as I understand it to be pulses of sound that mean text characters that are transmitted over an amateur radio frequency. And obviously the sound pulses are received when listening on the air and translated into text. In order to control the actual transceiver there needs to be either a USB OTG connection to the rig directly or with an USB->Serial Adapter. Another method of control could be a bluetooth link since bluetooth changes frequency so quickly interference would not be an issue.
The easiest way of accomplishing this would be just porting a ham radio digital program to maemo.
I would undertake this project if it weren't for my lack of a tablet and more importantly the need for actual programing skills. I would rather just rewrite major portions of an existing port to fit the small screen better, use bluetooth, and actually play well with USB Host and the IT's sound interface.
caulktel
2008-03-01, 00:19
Yeah, a nice CW decoder would be a good start. taking the IT on field trips would be cool, and even a contact logger would be nice, but probably won't happen, just not enough interest in Ham radio anymore. Could be wrong though.
Joel
KB6QVI
Joel --
you're supposed to be the CW decoder!!
--... ...-- -.. . .- .. ....- .- ..
Jeffgrado
2008-03-01, 02:36
I always thought about a psk31 decoder AND encoder for portable low power operations. That would be fun.
caulktel
2008-03-01, 02:52
Joel --
you're supposed to be the CW decoder!!
--... ...-- -.. . .- .. ....- .- ..
Ha!, funny, I used to be a pretty good one,(decoder that is), then I got older now I can't remember the code as well. Still fun though. QRP was my expertise, built all my equipment. Now I use a N800, my how things have changed.
rgr. ..and, nice to meet you! to save you the headache, then, the translation is:
73 de AI4AI
I always thought about a psk31 decoder AND encoder for portable low power operations. That would be fun.
I agree, especially with a 817.
It looks like the foundation for the software is more or less there:
http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16319&highlight=psk31
http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14877&highlight=psk31&page=2
Someone with the motivation and skills now has to setup and make it run on OS2008 :)
kernelpanic
2008-05-14, 14:00
I agree, especially with a 817.
It looks like the foundation for the software is more or less there:
http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16319&highlight=psk31
http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14877&highlight=psk31&page=2
Someone with the motivation and skills now has to setup and make it run on OS2008 :)
I just compiled gpsk31 no errors. But since there's no /dev/dsp it won't run... Anyone know how to get /dev/dsp up on the IT?
Cheers
kernelpanic (AC0IJ)
Looks like there are multiple /dev/dsptasks instead:
/dev/dspctl/ /dev/dsptask11 /dev/dsptask16 /dev/dsptask20 /dev/dsptask7
/dev/dsptask/ /dev/dsptask12 /dev/dsptask17 /dev/dsptask3 /dev/dsptask8
/dev/dsptask0 /dev/dsptask13 /dev/dsptask18 /dev/dsptask4 /dev/dsptask9
/dev/dsptask1 /dev/dsptask14 /dev/dsptask19 /dev/dsptask5
/dev/dsptask10 /dev/dsptask15 /dev/dsptask2 /dev/dsptask6
I also found someone else with a similar problem:
http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12964&highlight=%2Fdev%2Fdsp
Based on earlier reading, I kind of had a feeling it wouldn't be super easy, and alsa/esd/gstreamer would have to come into play.
In general, the best audio interface (for non-gstreamer-happy programs) is through esd. Of course, that's best from an audio playback perspective, where mixed (non-blocking) output is desired; for this application, blocking is actually better, as you don't have to hunt around disabling audio notifications from everything.
But, if you do want to go that route, install esound-clients, as explained here (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=136405&postcount=6). This includes (http://packages.debian.org/sid/armel/esound-clients/filelist) esddsp(1) (http://linux.die.net/man/1/esddsp), which should help.
speculatrix
2008-05-14, 21:18
there was a discussion about amateur radio for the Zaurus a while back on the OESF forums, where someone wanted to make a morse paddle for the zaurus so that a disabled friend could enter text into it using morse code.
I'm sure with a simple USB keypad or even a bluetooth mouse you could turn the tablet into a trivial tone generator. Add a timer and decoder and you'd have a text entry system which would probably be more accurate than handwriting recognition.
Another idea broached was to use the handheld computer as an oscilloscope - see xoscope software - but I am not sure what sampling rate the tablet is capable of, and whether the headphone jack is dual purpose output and input?
Headphone jack has a microphone input; there's been some speculation about writing a DSP task and getting higher sampling rates, but in practice, it's limited to 8kHz sampling rate. It should be straightforward to get it functioning as a scope, but there's not much use for a 2 kHz BW scope.
The morse key option is certainly possible. It wouldn't be the easiest thing to hook up as a generic input method, but doing a tone generator is definitely plausible.
adammelancon
2008-05-14, 22:03
I used to be big into APRS using Xastir running in Cygwin and used play around with AFU-Knoppix (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.afu-knoppix.de/&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DAFU%2BKnoppix%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Dacti ve%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26hs%3D7jj%26pwst%3D1)
Now it looks like there is Digipup
http://www.w1hkj.com/flpuppy.html
Guess I should look in my closet and pull out and dust off my trusty Kenwood D700. I haven't used it in almost a year.
73s
KD5QZG
fnordianslip
2008-07-17, 01:05
I've been getting to know my way around the scratchbox, and have been having a stab at getting AX.25 support on the N800.
So far, I've built a modified diablo kernel with AX.25 support with MKISS. I've not yet got a TNC hooked up to try it out. I've also been working on building libax25 which I have a now have a diablo deb for, and this is also installed on my N800.
Next there's ax25-tools. I'm having some dependency issues building the deb for that, but the code compiles in scratchbox, so the individual tools are there for manual addition to the tablet and immediate gratification. I'm hoping to get some AX.25 packets flowing through my N800 soon.
if anyone else is interested in this stuff, let me know.
cheers,
fnord
speculatrix
2008-07-17, 07:43
if anyone else is interested in this stuff, let me know.
fnord
yes, definitely, even if only for the intellectual exercise!
speculatrix
2008-07-17, 07:45
Headphone jack has a microphone input; there's been some speculation about writing a DSP task and getting higher sampling rates, but in practice, it's limited to 8kHz sampling rate. It should be straightforward to get it functioning as a scope, but there's not much use for a 2 kHz BW scope.
The morse key option is certainly possible. It wouldn't be the easiest thing to hook up as a generic input method, but doing a tone generator is definitely plausible.
I am wondering about those USB oscilloscope modules around, whether they offload enough processing to allow the tablet to be an effective scope.
For the morse key, I reckon a USB numeric keypad would do, or even a USB mouse, the mouse button simply activates the sound; or use left and right as an iambic (is that the term?) key.
Hey guys, I'm no amatuer radio operator, but I do know this.
If you install Debian (see the easy Debian install threads in "Alternatives" forum) you get a shed load of apps for this area. When I tried Debian, there must have been 50 available from the repos. I couldn't even figure what most of them did !
fnordianslip
2008-07-17, 19:48
Awesome, or at least mostly awesome.
The kernel with ax.25 support, libax25, ax25-tools and ax25-apps are working well on diablo, and decoding APRS traffic using KISS mode over USB serial with my Elcom USB uTNT v3.0 GPS/BT. The bluetooth is very iffy on the TNC, but is has worked occasionally, so that may also be viable if it is just a fault with my TNC hardware.
Due to the issues I've had with bluetooth, I've rebuilt the kernel with FTDI and Keyspan USB/serial drivers. The Elcom TNC needs FTDI and I have a Keyspan adapter. If anyone has a need for other USB/serial drivers built into a kernel with AX.25 support, let me know and I'll build them in.
I just need to figure out how to get rid of the odd dependency problem with ax25-tools in order to build a deb for them. They build OK from configure;make but dpkg-buildpackage moans about libfltk1.1-dev (>= 1.1.2-2) xlibmesa-gl-dev | libgl-dev, which are unlikely to get satisfied. I think there are some obscure GUI tools in there somewhere, probably for legacy satellite modes IIRC so I'll try and wheedle that stuff out.
Hopefully I'll post the kernel image and a bunch of debs in the next couple of days. If anyone wants to live on the edge with what I have now, also let me know.
So far, kissattach, listen, mheard are working. The TNC isn't wired up for transmission yet, as I've only had it just over a week.
fnord.
linux_author
2008-07-17, 20:11
rig control would be nice... a quick port of the xclass libs would bring rx320 and tt516 (Ten Tec Argonaut V) control to the n8x0 easily since USB serial is supported...
logging would also be a natural?
<sigh> time and motivation are against me...
sd_proto
2008-07-18, 08:57
I haven't had much luck with the Debian approach, at least not so far. I'm interested in seeing psk31/gpsk31 work, as well as predict / possibly predict-gsat even if it's only one sat at a time or slow updates. It's unfortunate we're limited to only 8khz audio.
I need to learn how to use the scratchbox. Does anyone have a pre-configured VMware appliance / scratchbox to share?
I haven't had much luck with the Debian approach, at least not so far. I'm interested in seeing psk31/gpsk31 work, as well as predict / possibly predict-gsat even if it's only one sat at a time or slow updates. It's unfortunate we're limited to only 8khz audio.
I looked at that last year. It's not difficult to put together just 'predict', I'm appending a .deb here. Warning: a) It runs nicely enough in xterm, but it doesn't handle switching from / to fullscreen mode when in ncurses mode. b) It's built for OS2007, although so far these kind of applications tend to install and run OK on OS2008 as well - but I can't test this. c) It doesn't include the .wav files (due to the size), but it leaves a directory for them (/usr/lib/predict) - you could just copy them from somewhere. But I haven't tested if they would work either.
As for 'gsat', its a gtk1 application while Maemo is only gtk2. 'gsat' is a slightly hairy application with lots of hardcoded values that interferes with porting to gtk2. I did however get a working version last year, but it's not looking nice and thus not that useful. In the end I decided to not bother with it, I have a new app in mind which I'll finish if I ever get enough vacation.. currently on hold.
fnordianslip
2008-07-18, 14:51
I need to learn how to use the scratchbox. Does anyone have a pre-configured VMware appliance / scratchbox to share?
Is this what you are looking for: http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/
fnord
fnordianslip
2008-07-18, 20:58
Right. Here's a kernel image and a bunch of debs for Linux AX.25. But first a warning.
Tested on an N800, loaded with Diablo and booting from SD.
This warning doesn't look big and red, but it is. This stuff does work for me and should work for you. Probably.
There are no instructions here for installing the kernel or the debs, or for using AX.25. For info on installing alternative kernels, search the forum. It is said to be practically risk free, and that's how I've found it. YMMV. For info on configuring and using AX.25 with Linux, see the AX25 howto: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/AX25-HOWTO/
The kernel is a minor reconfiguration of the standard Diablo kernel and adds support for AX.25 networking and (M)KISS TNCs (none of the other TNC types are enabled). it also adds support for FTDI, PL2303 and Keyspan USB-serial adapters. The usual caveats apply to use of USB peripherals - see elsewhere in the forums. The version number from the kernel is unchanged from Diablo's default, due to an odd issue with wlancond (also noted by qwerty12 whose advise avoided wasted effort in that direction). You can tell if you are running the modifed kernel, by the build date/time, as below:
Latest kernel image for DIABLO_4.2008.36-5 release:
Linux n800 2.6.21-omap1 #2 Sat Oct 18 13:59:58 BST 2008 armv6l unknown
(md5: a9daa5f1a870f3c7e65f36c60d1e86dd):
http://homepage.mac.com/darren.long/filechute/zImage-4.2008.36.5-ax25.1.0
Older kernel image for original diablo release:
Linux Nokia-N800-23-14 2.6.21-omap1 #7 Thu Jul 17 18:15:35 BST 2008 armv6l unknown
(md5: 2d2170b3b3dde09f7d26cabdaec23046):
http://homepage.mac.com/darren.long/filechute/zImage.ax25-2.1
The deb for libax25 (built straight from Etch):
http://homepage.mac.com/darren.long/filechute/libax25_0.0.11-4_armel.deb
and libax25-dev if you're that way inclined (built straight from Etch):
http://homepage.mac.com/darren.long/filechute/libax25-dev_0.0.11-4_armel.deb
The deb for ax25-tools (built from Etch source with loss of included ax25-xtools):
http://homepage.mac.com/darren.long/filechute/ax25-tools_0.0.8-11_armel.deb
And finally, for ax25-apps (built straight from Etch):
http://homepage.mac.com/darren.long/filechute/ax25-apps_0.0.6-14.1_armel.deb
Good luck. Please report results. I have provided a diff on the kernel config if anyone wants to add support in their own kernel without hand editing their kernel config:
http://homepage.mac.com/darren.long/filechute/config.ax25-2.1.diff
Wait. There's more. Both straight from Etch...
aprsd - Note: this is considered by some to be bit of a memory eater, and Intel's powertop (running on Intel hardware) claims that it's power hungry too. My N800s battery died overnight running this with no AX.25 traffic. I'm working on aprx to use instead of this. Only for the morbidly curious:
http://homepage.mac.com/darren.long/filechute/aprsd_2.2.5-13-3.1_armel.deb
and aprsdigi:
http://homepage.mac.com/darren.long/filechute/aprsdigi_2.4.4-1_armel.deb
and node (also from Etch):
http://homepage.mac.com/darren.long/filechute/node_0.3.2-4_armel.deb
Cheers.
fnord
sd_proto
2008-07-18, 23:09
fnordianslip - Thanks for the VMware link. I'm not sure if this is the same or newer version of what I have already. With the version I have, it seemed like there were a bunch of things that needed updating / tweaking etc. etc. and I didn't have the time/patience to figure out everything that needed changing. It would be much nicer if someone who know what they were doing had already done all that would copy and share it :D
Maybe the link you provided is newer and improved...
Thanks!
Update: This is the same as the one I have. If anyone wants to share theirs, please PM me.
brontide
2008-07-18, 23:47
Slightly off-topic, but my boss just put together a Google Maps mashup with a little javascript.
http://ab2iu.com/
I've been trying to convince him to log his psk31 to a web feed somewhere.
mdanehart
2008-07-19, 00:19
I have a Kenwood TS-480SAT I would love to be able to control this unit with my N810 like i do with my Laptop!
I don't know about the TS-480, but there are some perl scripts out there to control the D7 over the serial port. I haven't tried it yet. Worse comes to worse you can always VNC into your laptop from your N810 and control your 480!
Brontide, speaking of psk31 and google maps mashups, check out http://psk.gladstonefamily.net/pskmapn.html
fnordianslip
2008-07-20, 14:05
I have updated my post above to reflect the fact that I have concerns about aprsd being a battery eater on my N800. The N800 died overnight, confirming my suspicions. Others consider it to be a memory eater too. If anyone has installed it, they should consider the implications.
Since powertop doesn't run on the tablets, I tried on my Linux box and it reported that aprsd was responsible for 75% of the 'wakeup' events in the system. When I stopped it running, the total number of wakeup events reduced accordingly.
I'm working on building aprx to use as an APRS I-Gate feeder instead, although I've never used it before.
fnord
fnordianslip
2008-07-20, 19:27
As aprsd is perhaps a bit too dodgy, here is a deb for aprx, again built for diablo (built straight from the tarball at http://wiki.ham.fi/Aprx.en for details):
http://homepage.mac.com/darren.long/filechute/aprx_0.99.121-1_armel.deb
aprx is interesting as not only will it I-Gate APRS traffic via kernel AX.25 hooks, i.e. from a KISS TNC, but it will work apparently also work with a serial TNC in host mode, so your N8x0 can be an RF->internet I-Gate without needing a custom kernel and libax25.
I haven't tried it on a N8x0 with a stock kernel yet. I'd be interested in reports of success or otherwise. It does work with the custom kernel and a USB attached KISS TNC.
fnord
uNtouched
2008-08-19, 05:12
Alrighty....just one note, and yes, I know I'm reviving a rather old thread....but.....8khz isn't bad at all for decode. So why is everyone buggin out about it?
My setup consists of a Macbook running Ham Radio Deluxe + DM780 in VMWare and with the old version of VMWare I was getting 7.5khz and couldn't decode ****. With the updated version, I was hitting just under 8 and it works fine. Granted I'm not using any interface at all, just 2 mono plugs to the back of my IC-7000 (ACC port) and it works fine. Yet with a HP laptop I got a TON of hum/buzz (ground noise).
Anyhow, if you guys are worried about decoding, 8khz should be fine, or at least that is my experience.
73 de N9RLI.
JKolstad
2008-08-19, 05:39
Personally, I can think of a few ham radio applications where an N800 could work well, but realistically, I think you're better off with a small, cheap (<=$500) laptop -- even something like an Asus eee PC if you really want to minimize space. Most amateur radio software requires one or more of the following:
-- Significant keyboard input (logging software, digital text modes)
-- Decent audio input/output capabilties ("soundcard decoding" modes)
-- Serial port and/or digital I/O capabilities
The Nokia tablets don't do any of these things particularly well out of the box; you need to add, e.g., a Bluetooth keyboard, USB sound card, and USB serial adapters to add them. So while you can certainly make it work, why not just use a small laptop and immediately get it all? (Or at least all but a serial port?)
I have nothing but encouragement for the people who want to do this, though -- just trying to explain why I don't think that many people are actually doing it!
---Joel
uNtouched
2008-08-19, 13:51
Oh I could definitely see why they aren't. It would be more of a "dude check this out"...than a practical use device in terms of digital modes.
fnordianslip
2008-10-18, 14:58
Latest kernel image for DIABLO_4.2008.36-5 release:
Linux n800 2.6.21-omap1 #2 Sat Oct 18 13:59:58 BST 2008 armv6l unknown
(md5: a9daa5f1a870f3c7e65f36c60d1e86dd):
http://homepage.mac.com/darren.long/filechute/zImage-4.2008.36.5-ax25.1.0
I've edited my earlier post and added a link to a kernel built for the latest Diablo SSU version 4.2008.36-5 with AX.25 support as previously described. As before, only tested on an N800, booting from SD. Seems good with kissattach, listen, mheard etc. all running as expected, using the original debs I've provided.
cheers,
fnord
Asturcon
2008-10-18, 16:48
What about porting EchoLink??? It will be nice on a portable device like N8XX.
Random tip: save this SWF file on your NIT and open it with microB:
http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/tone/files/touchtones.swf
Crank up the volume. No need for a DTMF mic anymore!
(just place your NIT close to the mic, key up and dial away)
Finally.. APRS in Maemo-Mapper (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=27381&page=11) and I have it working.
N810, various USB to Serial gizmos, an OpenTracker+ in KISS mode.. and I'm in business with two-way APRS.
Are you sending packets through a raw terminal such as screen?
Hey guys, check out the attached file. It will take a long time (30min?) to import all these POI's to maemo mapper. Just create a POI for catagory ham repeaters and import the GPX files. Once you do this, you'll have POI's listing most of the repeaters in the country! The csv files were taken from http://www.poi-factory.com and converted to gpx files maemo mapper understands. Enjoy.
EDIT: You can also use this tool to import and manage your POI's:
http://www.rikcull.f2s.com/
Hey guys, check out the attached file. It will take a long time (hour?) to import these POI's to maemo mapper. Just create a POI for catagory ham repeaters and import the GPX files. Once you do this, you'll have POI's listing most of the repeaters in the country! The csv files were taken from http://www.poi-factory.com and converted to gpx files maemo mapper understands. Enjoy.
Excellent, and thank you!
Got it loaded up and it wasn't even close to an hour on my 810.
Now that it's in there... is there a source for the Tone data so it could be added to the POIs as well?
Thanks,
-Tom
KE7VUX
Hold down on the POI, then go to view/edit POI and the tone will be listed. You can also add other cvs files from poi-factory to maemo mapper by using this online conversion tool http://www.poieditor.com/poi_convert/garmin-csv-to-gpx/ or GPSBabel http://www.gpsbabel.org/download.html I believe someone ported GPSBabel to Maemo, but I can't find it.
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