View Full Version : [Canola] Canola beta9 UPNP (0.1.0 Alpha Release) Known issues, Bugs Feedback! Please Test it!
Please Post everything that you have about UPNP here.
Known issues will be here in the first post.
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Known Issues
Plugin: Youtube | What: Screen gets black when hitting hardware button back
Solution by now: you need to close canola using hardware button unfortunately.
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Plugin: UPNP | What: No support to MythTV
Solution by now: Don't use MythTV with Canola. It's a choice. We will not support what we consider to be a non-flexible, out of the standard (too much) server and after 3 years of trying to use it, we decided not to support. Yes we do know a lot about it, enough to decided that it doesn't worth the effort to support.
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BR
Marcelo
Is the UPNP plugin available for OS2006? I can't find it in the Application Manager.
No, it is not.
However, at least on 2008HE it works. Try getting it from the chinook repo.
No, it is not.
However, at least on 2008HE it works. Try getting it from the chinook repo.
I tried, but couldn't install the chinook version because of package dependencies.
Sorry, maybe they will release the UPNP plugin for older OSes after some testing. However Marcelo suggested they will slowly drop 770 support, so maybe that's the start of this process.
Terry_Davis
2008-05-20, 10:52
The youtube plugin no longer displays in fulscreen. Anybody else having trouble with youtube?
The youtube plugin no longer displays in fulscreen. Anybody else having trouble with youtube?
All ok here, Terry. Tested with 6 different youtube videos...
Could you please post the video title (or the video url) so I can also test it here?
Mplayer version would be nice too... :)
Sorry, maybe they will release the UPNP plugin for older OSes after some testing. However Marcelo suggested they will slowly drop 770 support, so maybe that's the start of this process.
Thanks anyway.
I hope there will be UPNP support for OS2006 version, too. I would love to have a possibility to stream transcoded TV programs and music from my MythTV server to the 770. In OS2007HE this works with the default media player, but otherwise the Hacker Edition is not stable enough for me.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
Tragos, We cannot guarantee the upnp working on the os2006/770 (it's really the heavier plugin today) but we didn't upload it because of the debian / key flaws issue, our guy responsible for that lost his key, and was not able to generate and upload the packages.
But we will do our best, it's just that we don't have enough people to maintain a lot of versions, so unfortunately we need to choose which ones to support or the project will stop : /
Marcelo
Marcelo, i can report that all streaming works good with Mediatomb and Canola 2 UPNP plugin on both Diablo and 2008HE.
I can't get it to display videos from my Xbox XBMC or Azureus, I will give it a shot with Mediatomb in the next few days to make sure it isn't me and my settings.
-Rip
Hi Bundio!! Thanks, I will post this server as a suggestion on the website.
*you have been a great member here! we really appreaciate that
Rip: just make sure your xbox and azureus are streaming a supported format. :/
What format are they using (Windows media?) ?
MArcelo
Terry_Davis
2008-05-20, 14:59
All ok here, Terry. Tested with 6 different youtube videos...
Could you please post the video title (or the video url) so I can also test it here?
Mplayer version would be nice too... :)
I have mplayer 1.0rc1-mameo.27.n8x0
and every video i try gives me the same issue. they all apear not in the usual great canola widescreen view. If anybody can help please let me know.
I have deleted and realoaded canola2 beta9 twice even deleted and reloaded mplayer.
Reporting FUPPES UPNP server under linux also works with the plugin, couldn't get the virtual folders working, but that's not the plugin fault.
Marcelo, thanks. If you are able to generate the packages later and upload them to the repo, I will report to this thread how well UPNP worked under OS2006.
Also, I fully understand that you are not able to support every different OS version out there. I won't blame you for that. Instead I keep blaming Nokia for their business decision to abandon 770 users after the N800 entered the market. But before going offtopic: I really appreciate that you guys and all the other software developers out have been able to keep the first IT alive (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11824) so far.
I have tversity running on my computer sharing videos and music, music works fine alltough it has a minor lag when starting but video takes incredibly long time to start if it even starts, something like 30sec->few minutes. Works fine on mediastreamer so its pretty strange. Ill try to tweak my settings if it's something to do on my end. Btw I tried mplayer 24,25,26 and 27 so it doesn't seem mplayer problem.
yeah tragos,
and I know HE don't work quite well for you, but we here have it working on the He2008 that the best we can do for now :)
But
andy: maybe the default media player is dealing better twith the streamin of videos, due to format / codecs... I will investigate.. can you send us the seettings / encondings you are using? we did have problems / slowdowns in some formats with mplayer backend.
Marcelo
Also some UPNP servers take quite some time before starting to stream the video. Especially if it is transcoded from bigger resolution.
the settings the tversity uses are propably those in the n800 profile because thats what I set in the tversity settings. <transcodeTarget audio="audio/mpeg" video="video/divx16" photo="image/jpeg" onlineAudio="audio/mpeg" onlineVideo="video/divx16" onlinePhoto="image/jpeg" />
<maxVideoInfo width="400" height="240" bitrate="640000" fps="30" />.
Of course it might also use the useragent that overrides the settings. tversity profile looks for these strings Maemo browser|neon|libcurl-agent on the useragent. Oh and I know it takes some time to start encode but it works very well on the mediastreamer and also in canola after the long wait, the video is fine but it just takes long time to start.
Just wanted to report that upnp-plugin works with mediatomb using tablet-encode to do the transcoding.
lintweaker
2008-05-20, 19:58
Hmm, I can see my MythTV 0.21 upnp server without problems. But when I browse to my recordings canola crashes...
lintweaker : MythTV is REALLY complicated. if you are trying to play videos.. well I don't think it will be easy. We did a couple of projects with mythTV (including maemoMyth, and other things) and the fact is that MytthTv uses it's own containers for videos, and sometimes the recordings are in a specific enconding not supported by us.
So that;'s why sibnce the beginning we don;'t support videos in mythTv at all :/
Maybe it will be complicated to support it in the future (we know this since canola1)
Br
Marcelo
Hi,
Playing songs on my N800 works, but there is no choice that I can use my control point as player (currently my PC), with media streamer it works.
Also seek doesn't work, ican't navigate in the songs.
That is the same behavious as the madia streamer.
(I use Twonky 4.4.5. maybe he is guilty in the system?)
General: I can't see the album cover of my MP3's.
Regards,
Erdal
Erdal : yes, indeed we cannot control yet. We had a full project (client, controller and server) but the resulting code is not good for release(too much memory, slow, etc) so we ran and did a basic support that is working.
If you need control point features... you need to use mediastreamer : /
Seek is not supported. Seek in the streaming media is REALLY more complicated than it sounds, so our focus is first on getting things solid.
Maybe yes twonky can make even more difficult to seek, but we are not testing it right now...
Covers from the UPNP? or locally?
did you install : canola-tuning-plugin , then entered the settings - media - update cover arts and thumbnails ?
Marcelo
mudhoney
2008-05-21, 03:15
I can't seem to see FLAC files in the UPNP plug-in. I'm using Mediatomb as a server, and they do not show up even with transcoding to WAV enabled.
Hi Mudhoney : we will take a look, but did you tested it with other players (like mediastreamer) ? We don't know if it will work.. can't you transconde to other format just to test?
MArcelo
@mudhoney: This probably is related to Mediatomb, not the plugin - see the Mediatomb config file if flac files are defined as media files and supported.
Hi,
Firstly, thanks for the great work on this update... running much faster !
Re: UPnP
I'm using "ushare" on my linux Mandriva box as my server. I can see the server in canola and browse the folders.
Problem 1:
after playing music from one folder, I can no longer see any media contents of any other folder. It still works fine in "MediaStreamer".
Problem 2:
I can browse my video folder (providing I haven't just played music from another folder... see above), but it plays any video file (encoded for the n800... MP4) as music instead of video. Have I missed a setting somewhere ?
Thanks
Stu
Problem 1:
after playing music from one folder, I can no longer see any media contents of any other folder. It still works fine in "MediaStreamer".
I get that in fuppes and Orb using the Canola UPnP plugin too. In fuppes, I could see the music while the db was updating, but after it was done I saw nothing. Also, the directories show up but there are no files.
Re: UPnP
I'm using "ushare" on my linux Mandriva box as my server. I can see the server in canola and browse the folders.
Problem 1:
after playing music from one folder, I can no longer see any media contents of any other folder. It still works fine in "MediaStreamer".
Problem 2:
I can browse my video folder (providing I haven't just played music from another folder... see above), but it plays any video file (encoded for the n800... MP4) as music instead of video. Have I missed a setting somewhere ?
I guess you use this server with other hardware/software, is it working okay there? Also probably you're aware ushare can't do transcoding.
@Navi: my Orb is completely empty, but that's probably due to a specific implementation.
Hey guys, We don't support ushare by now, but if needed we will include it on the list. But be aware that due to a main difference, if the server has some particular details in the implementation it may be difficult to support it correctly (we don't use gnomeVFS to download-play the media like mediastreamer)
BR
MArcelo
Okay... I did read (above) what you said regarding MythTV, but I installed the UPNP plugin and tried it out, anyway.
...and, I don't totally agree with what you said about MythTV -- some (mostly older) installations use non-standardized (at least outside of the MythTV community) video containers, but for the most part the video file on the disk is directly from the encoder, meaning it's most likely to be either an MPEG2 or an MPEG4 file. I would hardly call either of them non-standard
okay... so, I fired up Canola after installing the plugin, and saw the Media Servers option on the main menu. clicked it, and got a list of media servers. In my case, the sole entry on the list was my MythTV (0.21/svn) AV Media Server. I clicked on that item, and was presented with three choices: Music, Recordings, and Videos.
I tried Music first.
I was given the option of looking at the music by Album or All. What? Where are my "published" playlists? (No, I'm not expecting support for the MythMusic "Smart Playlists", but I do think I should be able to pick from my static playlists). I don't have my mp3 files organized by album, so I chose to view all.
You need to put feedback on these screens, Marcelo. I stared at a non-responsive Canola screen with no indication that anything was going on while my MythTV box (apparently) sent over a list of songs. I kept staring, with nothing (apparent) happening for about 20 minutes. The only reason I didn't power-cycle the N800 was that I saw a periodic blinking of the "wireless status" LED on my WAP across the room; so I waited. and waited. and waited.
Eventually, I was shown a list of music. Each and every one of the 22,429 [an increase of 55 since last week!] mp3 files currently on my MythTV system are painstakingly tagged with Title, Artist, and Year (but not 'Album', since.. well.. these are not albums, they are released singles [and, in some cases, were never even on an album!]), and this information was slurped up by the import process in MythTV when the songs were added to the system. Certainly not for lack of data, all that is displayed in Canola is the Song Title. No artist, no year, no genre.
...and, then Canola started playing the first song on the list. It continued to play through the list, and I could go back to the list and click on a different song, and it would start from there and sequence forward. No, I didn't listen to all 22,000+ songs!
Summary:
Feedback. You definitely need to tell the user what's going on, lest they start believing nothing is going on!
Don't assume that music collections are grouped by "albums"; they're not. Further, an "album" doesn't necessarily contain only songs by a given artist. It'd be nice to be able to pick an artist, and get a list of all the songs (regardless of "album") by that artist. :)
I don't know what order the huge list of songs is in... it's not alphabetical by title, artist, or chronological by year. Perhaps it's unsorted? ...in whatever order they were added to my MythTV box?
Next, I tried video:
...and here's where the [short] fun began.
I clicked on Recordings, and Canola crashed and disappeared. I restarted Canola and tried again; clicked on Recordings, and Canola crashed and disappeared. I rebooted the N800, restarted Canola, and tried again; clicked on Recordings, and Canola crashed and disappeared. No pause, no hesitation, no list of available titles, just bye-bye!.
I rebooted the tablet again.
In Canola again, I tried the Videos option in the Media Server plugin. The videos on my system are of varying lengths, mostly .avi or .mp4 files; funny commercials, music videos, or full-length television shows (minus commercials, of course!) and movies that I've transcoded and saved. They vary in length from a few minutes to a couple hours, and are sufficiently compressed and at a low enough bitrate so they play nicely on the N800 when copied to an SD card and sneaker-netted to the tablet.
I clicked on Videos, and Canola crashed and disappeared. I restarted Canola and tried again; clicked on Videos, and Canola crashed and disappeared. I rebooted the N800, restarted Canola, and tried again; clicked on Videos, and Canola crashed and disappeared. No pause, no hesitation, no list of available titles, just bye-bye!.
Summary:
It didn't work.
Okay... I did read (above) what you said regarding MythTV, but I installed the UPNP plugin and tried it out, anyway.
ok, so you know what's coming next :) we have almost 3 years of maemo-mythTV experience :) so we would do if we believe in it. Anyhow I will answer some of your points..
...and, I don't totally agree with what you said about MythTV -- some (mostly older) installations use non-standardized (at least outside of the MythTV community) video containers, but for the most part the video file on the disk is directly from the encoder, meaning it's most likely to be either an MPEG2 or an MPEG4 file. I would hardly call either of them non-standard
No, they aren't but (I think was direct my critics on the wrong direction) but the playback of the mpeg2 files was always problematic even more on the streaming part.Also we cannot guarantee if the user has customized in any point it's settings.
I was given the option of looking at the music by Album or All. What? Where are my "published" playlists? (No, I'm not expecting support for the MythMusic "Smart Playlists", but I do think I should be able to pick from my static playlists). I don't have my mp3 files organized by album, so I chose to view all.
If they are not appearing, they are not published as they should be in the UPNP protocol, so sorry, we will not support particular implementations of mythTV.
[quote]
You need to put feedback on these screens, Marcelo. I stared at a non-responsive Canola screen with no indication that anything was going on while my MythTV box (apparently) sent over a list of songs. I kept staring, with nothing (apparent) happening for about 20 minutes. The only reason I didn't power-cycle the N800 was that I saw a periodic blinking of the "wireless status" LED on my WAP across the room; so I waited. and waited. and waited.
In this point I agree with you. I have a list of at least 30 spots where feedback is missing. But developers don't think like me, they want bug free stuff first, tested then we added the "plus". But anyhow:
We do not support mythTV. In a default upnp server, the little loading ball is rotating, and even on HUGE lists we do lazy loadings (thanks to chenca) that starts to show you songs as they appear, so we have (with more than 6 different softwares as servers, in windows linux e macs with more than 15k songs) faced a 5 min wait without items on the screen. I would say even more, we didn't wait 1 minute at all.
So probably you are already figuring out that MythTV is "screwing" up the protocol sending what it thinks it should send. (ok, I will be more careful because we maybe the problem... but this is my guess)
...e not albums, they are released singles [and, in some cases, were never even on an album!]), and this information was slurped up by the import process in MythTV when the songs were added to the system. Certainly not for lack of data, all that is displayed in Canola is the Song Title. No artist, no year, no genre...
Now my question: so the other servers do show it :) and they are using standard(almost) upnp. who do you think is messing up with stuff here?
Dude, we receive items from the network. Dictionaries with values. If there's not a value, mythTV is sending in a different way.
...and, then Canola started playing the first song on the list. It continued to play through the list, and I could go back to the list and click on a different song, and it would start from there and sequence forward. No, I didn't listen to all 22,000+ songs!
At least the URI for the file was correct.
Summary:
Feedback. You definitely need to tell the user what's going on, lest they start believing nothing is going on!
Don't get me wrong. But don't think after all this months of defending the user, and being the lead designer, and talking about that HERE, in my site and in the Canola channel this was not thought of? Of course it is, and we are adding them, changing text trying to come up with improved feedback in the speed that we can. Still more than 30 spots needing it? Still! but it's not magic to add everything when you don't have the man power. I know it's a difficult choice, but either to place the features that were delayed (like UPNP) or to add feeedback to everything and release a non-incremental beta just (this beta is all about feedback).
I did my home work, got a new team to keep canola going, and they are being trained etc etc. so this improvements are not on the polish phase (beta10). Upnp was the last feature and now we can do the improvements on the details.
Don't assume that music collections are grouped by "albums"; they're not. Further, an "album" doesn't necessarily contain only songs by a given artist. It'd be nice to be able to pick an artist, and get a list of all the songs (regardless of "album") by that artist.
I don't assume, and on UPNP I can do nothing. We don't do nothing on upnp. It's the media server that indexes organizes and sends a list. We show the list. that's it.
on the media library, I will tell you something about the users also: Don't assume that you know what they do. My real users even don't know about this forum, they send emails on the website. They do use albums as organization methods, but even with that I do not assume that. That's why in the music collection (where we have control) we pick from artists, then album. But I agree with you, one thing present in canola 1 is missing since the beta1 in canola2: "all songs". When you have groups of the same " artists " - the albums - you have this option of seeing all the items.
But in the UPNP? we don't have nothing to do with that. The server must have it.
So, if you have a standard upnp server, and your collection is there, just enable it that if you provide artists-album or all song it will appear.
I don't know what order the huge list of songs is in... it's not alphabetical by title, artist, or chronological by year. Perhaps it's unsorted? ...in whatever order they were added to my MythTV box?
ask MythTV dude. :)
Marcelo
...and here's where the [short] fun began.
I clicked on Recordings, and Canola crashed and disappeared. I restarted Canola and tried again; clicked on Recordings, and Canola crashed and disappeared. I rebooted the N800, restarted Canola, and tried again; clicked on Recordings, and Canola crashed and disappeared. No pause, no hesitation, no list of available titles, just bye-bye!.
so you probably have noticed by now how good mythTV is in the standards and why we don't support it.
I rebooted the tablet again.
In Canola again, I tried the Videos option in the Media Server plugin. The videos on my system are of varying lengths, mostly .avi or .mp4 files; funny commercials, music videos, or full-length television shows (minus commercials, of course!) and movies that I've transcoded and saved. They vary in length from a few minutes to a couple hours, and are sufficiently compressed and at a low enough bitrate so they play nicely on the N800 when copied to an SD card and sneaker-netted to the tablet.
I clicked on Videos, and Canola crashed and disappeared. I restarted Canola and tried again; clicked on Videos, and Canola crashed and disappeared. I rebooted the N800, restarted Canola, and tried again; clicked on Videos, and Canola crashed and disappeared. No pause, no hesitation, no list of available titles, just bye-bye!.
again: if this happens with the mythTV, what do you think it's the reason :)
Not following the protocol.
Summary:
It didn't work.
My Summary: it will not Work. and with the community that mythTV has (if you knew how unpolite the lead developers of mythTV can be) we are the ones who are never going to try to help them. As we did with several upnp servers with problems in the past.
BR
Resumption of a paused podcast restarts the podcast :-(
Not running multiple applications.
My Summary: it will not Work. and with the community that mythTV has (if you knew how unpolite the lead developers of mythTV can be) we are the ones who are never going to try to help them.
Hmm. Okay, then. You don't wish to support MythTV - one of the largest, most heavily developed, open source multimedia applications on Linux, and choose instead to place any faults solely with that application rather than consider that your fledgling plug-in may need some work. I'm sorry you feel this way. I don't plan on building up a Microsoft-based Media Center or buy some commercial off-the-shelf multimedia solution with UPNP support, just to test these issues in your plug-in and determine where the problem(s) may be.
PS: I've been running a MythTV system, continuously, since version 0.13, and I do, in fact, know several of the developers (lead and otherwise) on the MythTV team... in fact, there's bits of my own code in there.
Hei briand :)
You are a user. We tried helping them, they don't listen. They have a lot of problems in their architecture, they are for sure widely used by they will loose momemtum because of the way the community is lead. But what I'm saying is:
Is too much work. We don't have man power. MythTV is not widely used by our target users to justify the free development of that. So if I have to do priorities, unfortunately we will support the STANDARD, not a solution. So, lot's of small UPNP servers do work better in streaming this than the monster mtv became.
I told you: it was 3 years ! dev for mythTV like. We did Maemo Myth, mythTV for the VideoCenter, gMyth, python bindings... we even invited the guys to the conference so we could get more people working.. on it..
all in Vain.
marcelo
@Navi: my Orb is completely empty, but that's probably due to a specific implementation.
Nah, it works in the built in media player.
mudhoney
2008-05-21, 16:39
I can confirm that flac files served with mediatomb and gmediaserver show up in mediastreamer. When I go to an album with flac files in the Canola plug-in, it says "no items found". Hope this helps.
Hi Mudhoney : i just check, our upnp plugin is not adding the flac mime type.
I will see if we can add this without side effects.
Briand :
and choose to place any faults solely with that application rather than consider that your fledgling plug-in may need some work.
I missed a little bit this part. Come one dude, we know that we have flaws. We know that we can make the plugin work adapting to mythTV faults. But we like to do things the right way not hacks. If we cannot help them (because they are not easy inclined to change, and because it's a mess) it's complicated for us. Put that together with the fact that a regular users will never be able to use it correctly (it's just a nightmare sometimes to install and configure it) then you have part of the equation.
Then check MorpheuZ profile. He is the media guy on canola, and has more experience in developing with MythTV than you can imagine, and sorry if we say that about it, it's not defending the plugin, but sharing our experiences with MythTV usage, development and hopes that went underwater because of the way it's done.
Mark my words: other linux project will override mythTV in the future, because the way it is today is simply not right.
Marcelo
Nah, it works in the built in media player.
My media player is also empty :)
Come one dude, we know that we have flaws.
sorry, I'm just calling them as I see them. I'm not here to evangelize MythTV or any other software. If Canola won't work with MythTV, and you're happy with that, then that is your decision. I'm only reporting what I saw.
One thing I did fail to point out in my previous post, though: The "networked media" (ie: my MythTV system) shows up in the built-in File Manager; It can't see (or, I'm not patient enough to wait to see if it sees) the audio files, but it does list out the available Videos and Recorded Programs. If I double-click on an entry in the recorded programs, it "slide-shows" on me (probably because they're recorded at a fairly high bit rate).
Each and every item in the Videos folder opens via File Manager, and plays (via mplayer) fine on the tablet. So, there's obviously no issue with the file format of the videos, and apparently the UPNP support (okay, let's call it 'networked media support') in the File Manager has no real issue in figuring out the metadata it is fed, and allowing me to access the media. This would indicate that there isn't any low-lying, fundamental "problem" with the UPNP implementation in MythTV, wouldn't it?
In fuppes, I could see the music while the db was updating, but after it was done I saw nothing. Also, the directories show up but there are no files.
I am confirming this problem with Fuppes Version: SVN-r578 running on XP. Almost every time Canola2 crashes while accessing Fuppes.
Unm, On XP? ok we will setup a machine to test it!
Marcelo Oliveira
Each and every item in the Videos folder opens via File Manager, and plays (via mplayer) fine on the tablet. So, there's obviously no issue with the file format of the videos, and apparently the UPNP support (okay, let's call it 'networked media support') in the File Manager has no real issue in figuring out the metadata it is fed, and allowing me to access the media. This would indicate that there isn't any low-lying, fundamental "problem" with the UPNP implementation in MythTV, wouldn't it?
Well, that's the difference between assume things and doing them :)
The regular browsing uses GnomeVFS, so it actually copies the file to the harddisk and then start streaming from this file not the network (what would be the correct thing to do) so they do have this advantage, but the point is :(don't worry about canola) get the URI and throw in mplayer. It must play there than we can improve our side.
What I can say to you is what you've find out : if we downloaded the media, it would work, but that's not the right way to do it. call us purist or whatever, but we will not do it. If mythTV supports good enough the protocol, the support will be natural. If the bug is on our side it will be tested and depured yes. But we will not modify to work solely with it. That's the point. It's not passing our flaws to mythTV.
My final summary : :)
- What I would like to let clear is : we will not "enter" in the quest to provide good and full support (official) to mythTV, because we know the size of the hole. Indeed can be used (I told you, we had a lot of work in the videocenter application, exactly in the mythTV, so we know the size of the hole here ! : ) and to say "we support mythTV" is something that I cannot afford.
But in the end, like in the other things: if you are not satisfied, you have the choice of the other applications, that's the beauty of open source! :) and your money back of course (joking)
Marcelo
Marcelo --
Again, I'm not here to perpetuate an argument, or to convince you to do something you don't want to do.
I do take issue with you dismissing, wholesale, issues I've found with your plug-in, simply because my UPNP server happens to be MythTV, and casting dispersions on MythTV and assuming the issue must be with MythTV because (a) they have sloppy code, and (b) their programmers are rude, arrogant, or difficult to get along with.
I don't accept that (a) is a given, and don't generally agree with (b), either (with a few notable exceptions).
Nokia's built-in File Manager "sees" my media server, and it'll (apparently) pass the network URL to the media player and I can view a media stream from my MythTV box to my N800. The file is not copied, en masse, (as you stated, above) to the device and then played; it is streamed.
In the specific instance of my Videos folder, all of the videos are capable of being played on the N800 with no intermediary adjustment in resolution or bitrate. They will all play (via streaming) by double-tapping them in the File Manager.
Attempting to do the same thing in Canola causes the application (Canola) to immediately and completely exit, upon trying to "enter" the Videos "folder", before it ever attempts to display a list.
I don't agree with your conclusion that this must be due to some "non-standard" UPNP implementation in MythTV -- tools on the tablet itself (File Manager, Media Player, and mplayer) obviously have no issue in parsing the returned information or, in the case of the media players, handling the incoming stream. The logical conclusion, given this information, is that Canola is having some difficulty that the built-in tools on the NIT apparently do not have, so the fault must lie within Canola and/or its plug-in.
I was hoping Canola would provide me with an nicer interface than the File Manager currently allows, so that I could occasionally serve media from my MythTV system to my NIT. It is clear, through your replies in this thread and your invitation for me to "go elsewhere", that I should not hold my breath waiting for this to happen. Okay, I won't. I'll suffer through the pedestrian interface provided by the File Manager, and I'll take you up on your invitation.
I wish you success with your software.
My media player is also empty :)
That's you :P It works with every orb setup on my network.
Well briand, I told you the final conclusion:
We are not going to officially support it. That's final. Officially supports means to do everything to keep it working, etc etc. if you don;t agree with what we said, you have the total right to do so, but I do also state OUR opinion based in 3 years of maemo-mythtv projects. And of course (it's not everyone there that are rude, but some key persons, that unfortunately decided the future of the device)
We will debug the plugin, and improve it's features as we go, so if the mythtTv is providing correctly it will be supported.
The problem is that I told you that we are not going to support it, and anyhow you provided a lot of feedback that was not related to our goals.
I agree that we shouldn't break (even if we don;t support) but remember what you said? "don 't assum album.. don;t assume that" and this we don't have nothing to do with. And please, when I said copy the file, I did't say a "real" conventional copy THAN play, gnomeVFS writes the files in the disk and then stream as it downloads. Anyhow I'm not a developer, I can be saying a wrong thing, but we do not use the same components, that's why we don't support the same way.
I'm not invite you to go elsewhere, but I was inviting you to understand that we don't work for a particular problem / server / solution. And as much as you like and use it, we decided no to go there. Simply that. and so, if you wanted to talk / report bugs on something that we said previously it would not be supported, then you know what you are going to have as answer. It's not rudeness, you talk what you want? you listen/read what you don;t want. It's that simple unfortunately.
We (particulary me) try to keep this as polite as possible even when things goes really beyong the respectable level (it's not your case) but if I told you "we don't support" and you kept hitting the button, then we will also hit ours :/
I think we can close this topic on mythTV ok?
BR
Marcelo
I think we can close this topic on mythTV ok?
Yes. You've made it abundantly clear that you will immediately dismiss any issue I report regarding your UPNP plug-in as an issue with my MythTV server, largely due to your bias and previous experience with the MythTV development team. I guess that seems prudent, to you.
[shrug]
I note that others, not running MythTV, have reported the very same issue. Do you think their issue is because I'm running a MythTV server, too?
From message number 47 in this thread:
I am confirming this problem with Fuppes Version: SVN-r578 running on XP. Almost every time Canola2 crashes while accessing Fuppes.
I'm not invite you to go elsewhere
Umm... I believe you did. Is it not exactly what you were inferring in 49 in this thread.
But in the end, like in the other things: if you are not satisfied, you have the choice of the other applications
Seems pretty clear to me; you've made your choice. I, of course, am free to make mine.
I note that others, not running MythTV, have reported the very same issue. Do you think their issue is because I'm running a MythTV server, too?
Fuppes (non-svn) doesn't crash. We don't use bleeding edge for testing. But anyhow again:
I think you still haven't figured the point here:
We are going to improve the plugin. It may end up working quite nicely with mythTV, The source code is going to be on the website quite soon, so even for those servers that are more specific it can be tweaked.
The fact is : we are not officially going to support it. Yes you can call it bias, but for me is simple :
The team is smaller, I have less development power, and I need to choose. So I choose only a smaller compatibility with smaller (more end-user-focused) servers, even if that means the ugly windows media player. I think the medium-experienced linux user knows how to deal with the problems in any other servers and can do their trick better than the average guy on windows. The community is full of software for those that are more into this hardcore features, than in the simple ones..
that's what I was telling you that you have choice. I always say that an dI have more than 1000 posts here to prove that even under unfair comments I do not "throw" any one out of the game, actually I can't. I said that just to make sure there's no commitment between my team's work and this NEED. not "you". the need of "supporting" mythTV. I have this demand coming even from high managers inside the company and I deny in the same level I deny to "you". It's just not worth for us. So if I'm not mistaken, you said that you did some mythTV coding right? So you can do the best thing in communities and tweak the code to fit the Mtv needs also. If you want, not only we can give you early access but also all the help through the channels (IRC, mail).
But please understand the point : under the circunstances (small team) is out of queue to "officialy" support it. If our improvements make it work. Nice. If not : / we will not create a task force for that :/.
If it was a paid software, then we would have a bigger team, and force to get most of the request done. But now, based on canola1 and 2 I know that I prefer to use a couple of other server as automated testing then mythTV just that.
You have my permission to continue to topic with me in private message, I will answer you asap there.
BR
Okay I guess I finally found the answer to why it takes long time to start streaming video, it seems mplayer accesses the server differently than the built in player, when transcoding to avi(divx) it downloads the whole file before trying to play it (or atleast very much of ite), but when trascoding to mpeg it seems to open it straight away without delay, I guess I can live with mpeg2 trasncoding I just need to find good settings for maximum quality. So in the end this is not a problem with the plugin but different behaviour with the media playing engine.
Andy, it's true,
that's why we also are suggesting some users to change the default player to be again the maemo one, not mplayer. But it really depends on the kind of quality you are aiming also : /
But please, share your transcoding settings, etc that can be helpful to the others! :)
MArcelo
nikolajhendel
2008-05-23, 12:05
I read through the whole thread and just want to be sure:
The only way to use canola (with UPNP support) on the N770, is by running HE2008 ?
Sure I'll share them when I find the best quality/performance, im away this weekend so ill try them monday or tuesday, btw what you mean by setting the default player back to maemo one? I thought canola allways uses mplayer as video engine?. Btw what user agent string does canola use when connecting to upnp server, it would help as I can then do automatic profile to tversity whenever I connect with canola. Of course I could just capture the header with wireshark but I guess asking is easier =).
I read through the whole thread and just want to be sure:
The only way to use canola (with UPNP support) on the N770, is by running HE2008 ?
Yes, for now.
Hmm, there is a upnp plugin for bora which you can try to install:
http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/bora/free/c/canola-upnp-plugin/
Frank Banul
2008-05-23, 13:32
Hi,
I tried out Canola's UPnP support yesterday with a Twonkyvision server on a Linkstation (Linux). Comparing to the Media Streamer application provided by Nokia, Canola is slower to start playing music. Also, the album art embedded in the mp3 is not displayed in Canola but is in Media Streamer. Also it was not obvious to me that there was a way to queue multiple albums in a playlist (again, comparing to Media Streamer). Other than that, great work.
The album art and queuing are not that big of a deal. The slowness in starting to stream is something that will keep me using Media Streamer.
Frank
Frank : indeed, we deployed a new version today trying to improve the list with twonky and others but we still have a lot of problems. As we said in the topic, it's alpha and we thank you for your feedback because it makes us focus on the higher priorities, like the list etc. There's no way now to do recursive adds to the playlist, and also not ways of control point features usage.
Yeah, we can improve it and we will, but it needs a lot of testing before becomes better. The thing is that mediastreamer uses other strategy / components for the downloads and we are trying to come up with an alternative inside our plugins as fast as possible.
Thanks frank!
Marcelo
Orb works great now, but videos have stopped working with MediaTomb (I think) :(
Anyone else having problems with videos and long lists of music (1000+) in mediatomb?
hi Navi :/ well it was not supposed to happen : /// but let's work on it!
Long lists are the issue now : some servers don't send "a limited amount" of items... and this makes the current list slow, and also playback... so we are limiting/testing trying alternatives.. let's see what's becomes the best...
BR
Actually, I might be because I updated tablet-encode (everything else is the same). I downgraded the plugin and it still doesn't work.
but let's work on it! Long lists are the issue now : some servers don't send "a limited amount" of items...
Earlier, when I expressed this concern, you blamed it on my UPNP server and said it wouldn't be fixed. Now that others (who aren't running the same UPNP server I am) are reporting the same problem, I see you've changed your mind, and have decided to work on this.
briand, I am following what I' ve said: we work on the biggest problems not with a specific server etc. Even before people reported we were doing the update, and to work with this issue is beyond one server and even on those which support the list behavior is not good. I think you are trying to create situations that are not going anywhere
marcelo --
I'm simply pointing out that you dismissed each and every concern and observation in my messages as "problems with mythtv" and (eventually) indicated that developer resources wouldn't be used in troubleshooting them, because you didn't have the time or inclination to work on "issues" with other (UPNP server) software. Now, it's becoming clear that the issue isn't, in fact, a problem with a specific server, but with the canola plug-in; and now, you're putting some resources into investigating the issue.
I guess my problem (if I, indeed, have one) is to have my 20+ years of real-world experience in computers, networking, internet, and software development completely and entirely dismissed (and disregarded) because I'm using MythTV (..and you don't like MythTV). As I opined in my previous messages in this thread, the problem(s) probably exist regardless of server, but (at that time) you had no data points from anybody else having those specific problems (in a non-MythTV environment); now you are getting such reports, and are "looking at the problem" (and, as one would expect, prioritizing the issues in accordance with common/prudent software development practices).
In short, whether it was your intention or not, you summarily dismissed every observation I had regarding your (UPNP plug-in) software because you have a predisposed bias against the server software I happen to be running. i.e.: you don't like my choice of software, so all my observation points are invalid and I should be ignored. I understand you may not have consciously decided to do this, but it is what you have done. My last message was simply observing that other (non-mythtv-using) users are starting to find the same exact issues, and you are not immediately dismissing the problem.
I'm not trying to "create situations that are not going anywhere", because it doesn't matter to me, personally, whether you choose to address these issues or not; I am no longer using, testing, or eagerly awaiting upgrades/changes to your software, so it simply doesn't affect me. I am truly happy that others are now seeing these issues and reporting them, and that your team are now investigating how to address them... not because you'll "win me back" (you won't) as a Canola user, but because you'll be improving the product so that you don't lose other users.
I didn't stop using Canola because of any problems it may have (I understand it was an alpha release, and I understand that there are problems to be expected-- I have no unrealistic expectations of software released in this state); I stopped using Canola because, frankly, I didn't like the way you treated me (as an individual) and totally dismissed everything I had to say because you (personally) didn't care for my choice of server software. I'm not an idiot just because you don't like MythTV.
Again, not to belabor the point further, I wish you and your team continued success in your software development endeavors.
Well, I will try to be really short.
1. We tested the plugin with a couple of servers and 15-25k collections. with the tested plugins it worked reasonable well, thus we closed to release it.
2. One user complained about mythTV, and I said : we are not going to support MythTV. So you can assume: we are not going to install / listen to problems BASED on mythTV.
3. Even knowing that (you wrote on the beginning) you came, with a handful of bugs, and even more things like "don't assume this, don't assume that" -you also may not have mean that- but sounded like you thought that canola SHOULD do that, and it was unnaceptable if not.
4. I gave (you can look in several other post of mine to other people) you our standard procedure : Sorry, we are not going to support, but there's choice out there.
5. At any, I mean any Moment I would make ANY judgment of you, because like you don't know me, I don't know you and I only talk about the small section of text you wrote, complaining about supporting something that we said that we wouldn't support.
6. with the update, the list problem became clear. Ok, it's beyond mythTV, so we need to go back and solve. You are right that I dismissed it when it was mythTV based the complaint. But not because it was you. It was the decided before : no mythTV support. But if other server-users started complaing of course we would look at it briand.
7. You came back with, apart from your 20-years of experience, what take you at least to my age if you started at 8 with computers, with a behavior that I consider to be of a child of 13. Please read my other posts on for example (canola doesn't live to the hype) or other guys, or even on my blog about canola not suiting their needs. I WAS NEVER, EVER nothing directly to you, but to the need you have that we cannot fulfill.
So, even if you think the same, I'm deeply disappointed that you still carry on this, decided to drop the software because of my post (I don't think my buddies developers deserve to lost an user because of me) and from now on, I will try to give more simple, mechanical answers, instead of being a real person.
I don't believe any of the software you use today for UPNP client on maemo would answer, give the attention, reasons in the level of detail I gave you, neither I believe they could care about you not using the software. So if even with all the respect that I DID gave you just by reading and answering ALL your messages since you got to this forum, and even a message that you started acknowledging that no mythTV was going to be supported... I really cannot do more to explain the situation.
A shame, but I think I learned something valuable: I should be more "machine" when it comes to "user support / listening / feedback" instead of being a real listener.
Take care.
Marcelo
GeneralAntilles
2008-05-25, 00:05
A shame, but I think I learned something valuable: I should be more "machine" when it comes to "user support / listening / feedback" instead of being a real listener.
That's really rather sad, Handful, as I think most everybody appreciate's the 'Human face' of Canola. :(
1. We tested the plugin with a couple of servers and 15-25k collections. with the tested plugins it worked reasonable well, thus we closed to release it.
2. One user complained about mythTV, and I said : we are not going to support MythTV. So you can assume: we are not going to install / listen to problems BASED on mythTV.
Did this happen before it was released here? I didn't participate in the testing, so I would have had absolutely no way of knowing or assuming your stance expressed in point #2.
3. Even knowing that (you wrote on the beginning) you came, with a handful of bugs, and even more things like "don't assume this, don't assume that" -you also may not have mean that- but sounded like you thought that canola SHOULD do that, and it was unnaceptable if not.
4. I gave (you can look in several other post of mine to other people) you our standard procedure : Sorry, we are not going to support, but there's choice out there.
Your initial post in this thread specifically asked for bugs and feedback, and my initial post in this thread (after installing and trying the software) did exactly that; I gave you the feedback you asked for.
5. At any, I mean any Moment I would make ANY judgment of you, because like you don't know me, I don't know you and I only talk about the small section of text you wrote, complaining about supporting something that we said that we wouldn't support.
...and, after you said you wouldn't support "working around MythTV problems", I pointed out that everything in my initial post that indicated a bug/failure in Canola, worked just fine on my tablet without using Canola, and asked how you could possibly consider it to be a MythTV problem with "a non-standard UPNP implementation".
As an aside, when I asked for something other than a list of song titles (like song length, genre, artist, year, etc) you indicated that MythTV probably wasn't sending it, and you could only display what it sent. I have looked at the code in MythTV, and I can assure you that a very complete and comprehensive set of metadata is returned for each and every item on the catalog it sends out.
6. with the update, the list problem became clear. Ok, it's beyond mythTV, so we need to go back and solve. You are right that I dismissed it when it was mythTV based the complaint. But not because it was you. It was the decided before : no mythTV support. But if other server-users started complaing of course we would look at it briand.
Here, you all but state that, yes, you dismissed my issues because I'm running MythTV. Now that others are seeing the issue, you'll look into it.
7. You came back with, apart from your 20-years of experience, what take you at least to my age if you started at 8 with computers, with a behavior that I consider to be of a child of 13. Please read my other posts on for example (canola doesn't live to the hype) or other guys, or even on my blog about canola not suiting their needs. I WAS NEVER, EVER nothing directly to you, but to the need you have that we cannot fulfill.
I have not read, posted, or participated, in the threads or blogs you mention here. I don't feel my writing in this thread is coming off as being from "a child of 13". I understand, from your writing, that there may be a bit of a communications gap due to native language differences, so perhaps you perceived a tone that wasn't there.
Let me ask you to participate in a brief experiment: Go back and read my first post in this thread (a thread specifically asking for feedback on this 0.1.0 Alpha Release), but this time remove all references to what sort of media server I'm running. Ask yourself (and, please, be honest with yourself) if your responses to me about any of my points, observations, opinions, or suggestions would have been any different in this thread.
I ask this only because, later in the thread, someone else posted a much less detailed description of one of the very same problems I posted about in my first post in this thread, and your immediate answer to them was that you guys would have to look into the problem. While you may not have intended to personally insult me, I would think that you can easily see how I might be offended by this.
A shame, but I think I learned something valuable: I should be more "machine" when it comes to "user support / listening / feedback" instead of being a real listener.
Indeed, it is a shame (and I agree with GA's post, below yours). What you should have learned is that you shouldn't immediately dismiss any and all issues brought up by someone, simply because you're not a fan of another piece of software that person happens to run. While it may seem expeditious to simply dismiss everything as "a MythTV issue, which we will not support", it is not necessarily the best or most accurate assessment of the issues raised.
One of the things I liked about the Canola effort was the approachability of you and the folks on your team. If this discussion has led you to believe you shouldn't be so approachable, then you clearly haven't been understanding any (or most) of what I've written here. I would encourage you to remain open and approachable, and if you feel you should learn something from this dialog, it is my opinion that you should read what was written and analyze the problems noted without injecting a personal bias because some software you don't like has been mentioned. (See the thought experiment above, responding to your point #7)
Take care.
Likewise.
Rip: just make sure your xbox and azureus are streaming a supported format. :/
What format are they using (Windows media?) ?
MArcelo
They were just standard AVI's that mplayer can play, they didn't show up in the menu as videos that could even be played, when I selected the xbox or azureus they just showed empty folders.
I'm yet to install media tomb as i haven't had much time of late.
Cheers
Rip
EDIT:
xbox shows nothing when I select the server (could be xbox setup as I only have n800 as a upnp device in the house aside from the xbox itself running XBMC)
and Az just shows empty folders (but Az can be used as a media server from my xbox client)
Guys, as a developer of Canola-UPnP plugin I have some words to say about UPnP:
"UPnP is a crappy bloated %$#& protocol !! "
So, please, don't blame the servers, don't blame the plugin...
The UPnP specification is very week, basically, any http server can fit in the UPnP specification and that's the reason to have 10000 of servers implementations and only 10 or 15 players.
Anyone can implement a UPnP server (even Microsoft) but nobody can create a player supporting all servers (nobody did) .
If you would like to see a better alternative to share your media, try DMAP, or if you don't agree with me, ask to SONY why they are pushing DLNA (DLNA == UPnP + restrictions)...
We (Canola Team) will try to fix all issues with UPnP but this takes time and we need help, so as soon as possible we will publish the source code of the plugin (developers can get using apt-get source) and every user will be able to do tests with your very special UPnP server :-)
Just wanted to report that upnp-plugin works with mediatomb using tablet-encode to do the transcoding.
I've got mediatomb working fine with tablet encode with movies I have previously transcoded, but it runs choppy with non-tablet encoded movies, what settings did you use to get mediatomb working with tablet-encode? I'm pretty new to mediatomb and can't seem to get it working at all.
Cheers
Rip
EDIT:
Finally works. yay! with
<transcode mimetype="video/x-msvideo" using="tablet-encode"/>
and in profiles
<profile name="tablet-encode" enabled="yes" type="external">
<mimetype>video/x-msvideo</mimetype>
<accept-url>yes</accept-url>
<first-resource>yes</first-resource>
<accept-ogg-theora>no</accept-ogg-theora>
<agent command="tablet-encode" arguments="-p best %in %out"/>
<buffer size="14400000" chunk-size="512000" fill-size="120000"/>
</profile>
I'm not sure if these are the best settings but it seems to work with the latest stable edition of mediatomb :)
Ok, so let's finish the whole history, let's try to start again, and dismiss any problems in communications.
Resume :
a. this guy http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=183789&postcount=23 posted that mythTV was crashing.
b. I gave him the same answer you're going to receive: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=183816&postcount=24
c. you are right, that I didn't look into it, I gave a answer based on history projects not on actual test (this could be my fault) so I could have ended everything here by saying simple : we are not going to support it.
d. you entered and if "I read your statement above about mythTv (first post on this thread) and so on...
e. we went under a flame about this.
---------
So now it's time to look forward, I will measure more carefully my words, sometimes I'm too eager to give fast feedback, and I do mistakes as anyone.
I apologize for sounding like "sending you away" but I do not apologize for not supporting mythTV. :)
There's one thing that bothers me a lot (not related to you) that I would like people to understand where we try to make the difference:
a. we don;t do dirty hacks.
So, I can assure you there's a couple of hacks we could do to improve the software.
Example : we could kill the non-fullscreen video, and open mplayer fullscreen twice, to avoid : the wrong aspect and the performance. But we chosed not to do so, and then we pay.
So we can indeed make it work (like it's working on the other media players) but it would need a hack (to use gnome things inside our code) or even to create a specific parser for it (not a big deal, but still a specific code) and we are avoiding it. So we will answer the guys from the other media serves indeed, but not going to add support to any of them in particular. That is the whole point : /
But no worries, not hurt feelings then?
Marcelo
Thanks to the Canola team for putting out such a great free application! The new UNPN plugin works with the latest XP SVN of Fuppes. It is also much faster than the first release. I did notice one bug which I haven't investigated deeply. When loading an extremely large directory, it stops loading part way through the alphabet. Anyone else notice this running fuppes on XP?
okay. :)
regarding (a): I did see that post, and your (b) reply, but I didn't comment at the time.
In fact, MythTV no longer uses a "non-standard" container for videos by default. I assume, here, you're talking about the *.NUV files --they stopped using that container by default after version 0.18 (current version is 0.21, so there have been 3 releases [and 2.5 years] since the *.NUV files were created by default on most MythTV systems). The standard video format is now the raw capture of what the encoder card produces; in most cases it's an MPEG2 stream, as extracted from the VIDEO_TS in the case of satellite and terrestrial cable tuner cards, or MPEG2 as created natively by the analog encoder cards (Hauppauge, etc). There are a few cards out there that will create MP4 files directly, but those cards are relatively uncommon (even though the format, itself, is quite common). The only issue Canola (or any other UPNP product) should encounter is with the bitrate of the encoded video --and that has nothing to do with interpreting the UPNP stream, and everything to do with decoding the video file (and, in Canola's case, Canola isn't doing anything with the video other than sending it off to the media renderer [Media Player or mplayer]).
The problem stated in (a), and reiterated by me in this thread is that the application (Canola, along with the UPNP plug-in) exits immediately upon selecting either the Videos menu item (which can [and in my case, does] contain a list of transcoded video at an appropriate bitrate for the Nokia tablets) or the Recordings menu item (which contains [probably; see above] a list of standard MPEG2 video files.
In any case, it's not a problem with MythTV using a "non-standard" video container in which to store the video, because a) they don't use that format anymore, in most cases, and b) we're not even at the point of trying to play anything yet --we're still looking for a list of what's there. If Canola can successfully get the list of audio files from the Music section, it should be equally capable of getting the list of Video or Recording items in those sections. This particular issue has nothing to do with what format the video files are stored in; the failure occurs well before that point in the process. I don't know if there's a fundamental difference in the response sent via UPNP when one selects Videos or Recordings, versus the response sent when one selects Music. If you'd like, I'd be happy to run some code (if you have any) to capture the first few kilobytes of returned information for each of these menu selections, and you can determine if there's an issue with the server sending a fundamentally different UPNP stream for those two choices than it's sending for the Music choice...
Regarding (c), you said, "I gave a answer based on history projects not on actual test". To this I can only reiterate what I said above regarding the "non-standard" video container files. Also, please note that UPNP was added to MythTV in version 0.20, well after the *.nuv video container was (largely) dropped... so I don't see how you could have used a UPNP-enabled version of MythTV that was squirting out *.nuv files in your testing, unless you had a very non-standard MythTV installation.
a. we don;t do dirty hacks.
And, I don't think anyone here is asking for that. If Canola can read and understand the UPNP data sent when selecting Music, then it logically follows that it should also be able to read and understand the UPNP data sent when selecting Video or Recordings -- regardless of whether it'll be able to play any/all of the presented items once the list is displayed. Right now, Canola is not behaving well with either of the video selections... even if it doesn't understand what it's being sent, it probably shouldn't crash/exit... I would expect some sort of "unknown error" dialog or message box to be displayed. Whether or not Canola ever works with any specific media server, it should gracefully handle situations where it might receive something it didn't expect, and not segfault and/or crash and close the application.
Again, if you have some tool that will allow me to capture the UPNP data stream that is sent, I would gladly gather together some testing/evaluation files for you guys to look at.
I am using windows media player (upnp media share) as the media server, and canola with upnp plugin for the client. I can only see divx.avi files if I change the file extension to .mpgs on the media server. If I don't change the extension, they will not show up at all in canola.
Any ideas?
yok : divx are not supported. You can try using another enconding on the server or some transconding to better formats (better to the tablet playback I mean) than divX.
Marcelo
Hi Briand:
yeah I agree with you that the crashing bug is unnaceptabble , and at least an error should be thrown. I think I didn't noticed that I needed to say
"yeah, we are going to look at this CRASH" but I kept saying "we are not going to support mythTV"
I think this shows where the mess began, I was not "blaming" but actually I was running from the responsibility of testing with mythTV. If we are breaking it's our fault. period. It will be fixed.
I think Chenca is preparing the upnp code, with it and the the development build you can do the tracing, and I will let you know more about our things with mythTv when Artur comes back of his vacations :) I think the clearest point here is that I shouldn't have said that without his approval :)
Marcelo
yok : divx are not supported. You can try using another enconding on the server or some transconding to better formats (better to the tablet playback I mean) than divX.
Marcelo
Does unsupported just mean not offically supported (take your own risk)? Because I can get xvid videos under an avi container to play by changing extension from avi to mpg.
Also on the Canola site where it states supported format, MP4 is listed. So I assume divx/xvid is supported on local playback, but not over upnp plugin?
Again, if you have some tool that will allow me to capture the UPNP data stream that is sent, I would gladly gather together some testing/evaluation files for you guys to look at.
I recommend running wireshark on the UPnP server machine to capture the traffic. The interesting part is the SOAP and other XML stuff going over the net.
Christ. You would think that when someone repeats that they refuse to support a person, he/she would get the idea or be increasingly polite about it. But the fact is, being increasingly jerky totally makes developers listen to you.
Again, I'm not here to perpetuate an argument, or to convince you to do something you don't want to do.
That obviously was a lie.
Kthxbai
That obviously was a lie.
You, obviously, have an innate reading and comprehension disorder, like to troll around here trying to stir up trouble, and are often rude, dismissive, and misleading when you post.
Have we covered everything, or did you have a hidden question regarding the Canola UPnP plug-in somewhere in your snipe post?
Your sig says that you've been Canola-free, briand. Congradulations! (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=congradulations)
You, obviously, have an innate reading and comprehension disorder
No.
like to troll around here trying to stir up trouble, and are often rude, dismissive, and misleading when you post.
Yes.
Have we covered everything, or did you have a hidden question regarding the Canola UPnP plug-in somewhere in your snipe post?
Perhaps.
Because of how it works, the upnp plugin will fail for seemingly no reason. Root of the problem is actually briand. If you launch the upnp plugin after reading one of his lame posts, it will lock up Canola. Also, you won't be able to close it from the task switcher thing. No matter how many times you hit that 'x', it won't close. Don't fret, as you can kill -9 it.
Sorry to have to report this. Understand that it's my duty to do so. Call it a mistake on the developer's part, as this (probably) isn't supposed to happen. kill -9 will get you out if it freezes. S'all.
Hei guys,
I don't want to moderate the thread by flames, I have been involved into this one already and it got anywhere. So please let focus on the bugs, it's working better now but it needs so much more work.
Navi : so it's not doing videos under ORB?
Briand : if you got back to canola, did it worked with your mythTV setup?
Marcelo
Hi Marcelo,
I've just run the update and I've still go the issue involving not seeing folder contents after playback of a file. I can browse my media list play a file, but then when I navigate back to choose a file form a different folder, there is nothing lists in the contents.
All works fine using MediaStreamer.
Still using ushare as the server.
Any thoughts, or do you think this is a compatability issue with ushare ?
Thanks
Stu
Navi : so it's not doing videos under ORB?
Nope, Orb is working perfectly. I just can't get audio to show up with fuppes and video (and long music lists) to work with mediatomb.
I'd like to see a progress meter next to the little busy arrow that chases its tail while Canola does something time consuming. The arrow is a good clue that I have to wait. Alas, I'm impatient and I want to know that Canola is really doing something instead of spinning madly in a loop.
I thought of this while playing with Canola and its UPNP support with my TwonkyMedia server. As I sat watching the little busy arrow chase its tail while Canola obtained the names of the 400-odd albums in my collection, I thought it would be nice if I could tell how far along Canola was in the process.
Progress meter only make sense Tal, if you have a solid information of the end of your action. Example: you asked for a file, and you know in the beginning that it's a 100mbb file. Than you can do a progress meter. The spinning or a progress bar animated(but with no real meaning to the state of the bar.. the famous animated bar) is the same thing we just choose the simpler visually speaking.
So, twonky if it's sending small pieces, doesn't tell us how much lists there are there. Giving user feeedback (meaninful) it's a personal dream (as designer) but not always possible : / and the worst (sometimes is not related to canola -but there are a couple of places where we will improve it)
Marcelo
psunittany
2008-06-06, 12:33
Hello. I have been reading this forum for a while, but I have never posted. I hope someone can direct me to be able to install the latest Canola beta on my N800 (Chinook), so that I can try out the UPNP.
If I try to update my Canola2 install, it fails claiming a dependency on liblightmediascanner0. I have not been able to find a version of this that will install on canook. Can someone please direct me to how I can get this updated, and install the UPNP plugin to test it out.
I will admit that I hope to use this with my MythTV backend. I will try to avoid getting into any of the battles going on in this forum over MythTV. Just some info concerning the latest MythTV UPNP. I can easily access the MythTV UPNP server from my PS3. I can access and stream any recordings and most videos. The one issue that I have seen with recent MythTV (which is likely on the MythTV end), is that they only have 1 or 2 levels down for a shared directory structure. So, basically, if you have a videos folder that is being shared out with subfolders (ex. HomeMovies, TV, etc). It will show all videos at the root directory level as well as show all the folders, but if I try to browse down into one of the folders, it says that there are no videos available. Though I don't know it for a fact, I do believe that MythTV is pretty close (if not direct) in supporting the UPNP standard, since the PS3 UPNP support would never have explicitly put in support for MythTV directly (outside of installing Linux on the PS3).
The main thing for me is: Can someone help with the latest Canola (and UPNP plugin) install on an N800 with chinook? Many thanks.
italodance
2008-06-06, 15:16
hi dear friend marcelo
how are ya? do u remember me?
well i am still on my old problem and beta1
is there a new way for me?
:(
psunittany
2008-06-09, 16:53
Just wanted to give an update on this. I succesfully installed latest canola and the upnp plugin. I had to first install canola-clean and run that. After I did that, all was well.
I tried the latest canola with mythtv server upnp. I was able to get a listing of all my recordings, and start the streaming and playing of any of them. The issue that I did have was that the video seemed unable to play. I would see a frame, then a pause for several seconds, then another frame. I don't know if it is an issue with canola, the player, the streaming, mythtv, or the fact that the videos are 720x480 at around 7000 kb/s (likely the last, I am assuming).
Hello. I have been reading this forum for a while, but I have never posted. I hope someone can direct me to be able to install the latest Canola beta on my N800 (Chinook), so that I can try out the UPNP.
If I try to update my Canola2 install, it fails claiming a dependency on liblightmediascanner0. I have not been able to find a version of this that will install on canook. Can someone please direct me to how I can get this updated, and install the UPNP plugin to test it out.
I will admit that I hope to use this with my MythTV backend. I will try to avoid getting into any of the battles going on in this forum over MythTV. Just some info concerning the latest MythTV UPNP. I can easily access the MythTV UPNP server from my PS3. I can access and stream any recordings and most videos. The one issue that I have seen with recent MythTV (which is likely on the MythTV end), is that they only have 1 or 2 levels down for a shared directory structure. So, basically, if you have a videos folder that is being shared out with subfolders (ex. HomeMovies, TV, etc). It will show all videos at the root directory level as well as show all the folders, but if I try to browse down into one of the folders, it says that there are no videos available. Though I don't know it for a fact, I do believe that MythTV is pretty close (if not direct) in supporting the UPNP standard, since the PS3 UPNP support would never have explicitly put in support for MythTV directly (outside of installing Linux on the PS3).
The main thing for me is: Can someone help with the latest Canola (and UPNP plugin) install on an N800 with chinook? Many thanks.
tried the latest canola with mythtv server upnp. I was able to get a listing of all my recordings, and start the streaming and playing of any of them.
First, let me say that I am in agreement with your earlier assessment of the UPnP implementation in MythTV... it has been my experience, as well, that most applications supporting UPnP seem to treat it as any other media server, so I doubt there's any fundamental flaw in the MythTV implementation that would cause problems in the connecting client software.
That said, if you've gotten it to list out your videos and start the streaming process, then you've progressed further along than I did, and you've conquered 99.9% of the UPnP portion of the equation...
I don't know if it is an issue with canola, the player, the streaming, mythtv, or the fact that the videos are 720x480 at around 7000 kb/s (likely the last, I am assuming).
Here, I would state that the video bitrate is definitely a problem -- perhaps not the only one, but that resolution and bitrate alone are going to keep that video from playing smoothly on your tablet. (if you were to copy the video directly to your tablet, you'd probably see the same exact behavior trying to play it in mplayer via the command line...).
I would recommend rigging up a script on your mythtv box to automatically transcode your recordings to something closer to an appropriate resolution/bitrate for the tablet. You can set it up as a post-recording task (either before or after comm-flagging) to run automatically from MythTV, or you can manually kick off a transcode script on specific recordings you want to watch via the tablet.
To that end, you can set up something using mencoder (probably already installed on your MythTV system) and work out the appropriate command line parameters, or you can adapt the tablet_encode application (referenced on this board fairly often) to handle the task.
psunittany
2008-06-10, 11:18
First, let me say that I am in agreement with your earlier assessment of the UPnP implementation in MythTV... it has been my experience, as well, that most applications supporting UPnP seem to treat it as any other media server, so I doubt there's any fundamental flaw in the MythTV implementation that would cause problems in the connecting client software.
That said, if you've gotten it to list out your videos and start the streaming process, then you've progressed further along than I did, and you've conquered 99.9% of the UPnP portion of the equation...
Here, I would state that the video bitrate is definitely a problem -- perhaps not the only one, but that resolution and bitrate alone are going to keep that video from playing smoothly on your tablet. (if you were to copy the video directly to your tablet, you'd probably see the same exact behavior trying to play it in mplayer via the command line...).
I would recommend rigging up a script on your mythtv box to automatically transcode your recordings to something closer to an appropriate resolution/bitrate for the tablet. You can set it up as a post-recording task (either before or after comm-flagging) to run automatically from MythTV, or you can manually kick off a transcode script on specific recordings you want to watch via the tablet.
To that end, you can set up something using mencoder (probably already installed on your MythTV system) and work out the appropriate command line parameters, or you can adapt the tablet_encode application (referenced on this board fairly often) to handle the task.
Yep. I had no problems with the listings after installing canola. Also, I already have a script to do the transcoding. I would use it, then sftp the video onto my n800. I was hoping that the n800 would support the playing of the full size stream (though, I didn't think it would). I will probably start using the script again. I will run some tests within the next few days and let you know if I can successfully stream the videos with canola.
I have an additional mythtv upnp question for you: mythvideo seems to only share out 1 level of folders for the the videos. I have a setup of something along the lines of /mythtv/videos/tv, for instance. The mythtv server only shares out the /mythtv/videos folder level. If I look at the listing via upnp (via PS3 for instance), I can only see the "tv" folder. Once I go into the folder, it says that the folder is empty. Is there a way of adjusting the level of sharing? Thanks.
I have an additional mythtv upnp question for you: mythvideo seems to only share out 1 level of folders for the the videos. I have a setup of something along the lines of /mythtv/videos/tv, for instance. The mythtv server only shares out the /mythtv/videos folder level. If I look at the listing via upnp (via PS3 for instance), I can only see the "tv" folder. Once I go into the folder, it says that the folder is empty. Is there a way of adjusting the level of sharing?
It sounds like you're describing the exact situation in ticket #4914... (which was confined to the mythvideo plugin)... that ticket was closed in 0.21-fixes back in March (16557). What version of MythTV do you have installed?
psunittany
2008-06-10, 20:00
It sounds like you're describing the exact situation in ticket #4914... (which was confined to the mythvideo plugin)... that ticket was closed in 0.21-fixes back in March (16557). What version of MythTV do you have installed?
Not sure (will have to check). It is the latest in the Gutsy Gibbon repositories (did not compile myself (this time - that will teach me) ).
Due to some reason (I don't remember why) it is not available for OS 2006. There are other alternatives for accessing UPnP on OS 2006, though.
I just installed Canola 2.0.0 beta9 and the UPNP plug-in v0.1.1 on my N810 (OS2008), and everything looks good - except that I can't scroll through the lists on the media server - no scroller is displayed, and trying to drag the list up or down with stylus or finger has no effect. Scrolling is fine with all the other media sources (local library,YouTube, iradio, etc), it's just the media server lists that won't scroll :confused:
Is there some secret key combination to scroll media server lists? Is this a known bug? or am I being very dumb (I am a little hung-over :rolleyes: ) ?
I just installed Canola 2.0.0 beta9 and the UPNP plug-in v0.1.1 on my N810 (OS2008), and everything looks good - except that I can't scroll through the lists on the media server - no scroller is displayed, and trying to drag the list up or down with stylus or finger has no effect. Scrolling is fine with all the other media sources (local library,YouTube, iradio, etc), it's just the media server lists that won't scroll :confused:
Is there some secret key combination to scroll media server lists? Is this a known bug? or am I being very dumb (I am a little hung-over :rolleyes: ) ?
Scrolling should work just like anywhere else. Maybe the UPnP plugin died while reading the directory contents so that you don't see more items than fit on screen. I experienced this quite often that folders are displayed empty or only with a few items.
yok : divx are not supported. You can try using another enconding on the server or some transconding to better formats (better to the tablet playback I mean) than divX.
Marcelo
Marcelo,
can you recommend a compatible server for the intel mac which could transcode my divx/xvid files on the fly?
I have also tried to just rename some of the avi-files to mpg (just like yok3 did) and some of them played with like 10-20 seconds delay on start (was testing elgato eyeconnect).
If you need a volunteer for divx streaming testing, I can try it with Twonky or Elgato products, just give me a shout.
Thanks!
PS. If using DLNA instead of the broader defined UPNP would solve many issues, are you guys considering switching to sole DLNA support instead of UPNP?
DLNA is UPnP AV with some metadata extensions in the directory listings AFAIK. So I don't think it would make much of a difference on the client-side. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Rassilon7
2008-12-03, 11:09
Hi
Not sure that this is the correct place to report bugs but here goes:
When trying to add a photocast I have found that the "Open with Canola" option does not appear in MicroB. (I have Canola tuning installed)
I then tried to manually add the URL and it would not let me use the N810 keyboard to paste (ctl V)
I then tried to type it and the Blue FN button does not allow me to access alternate characters.
I managed to install the photocast by turning on the on screen keyboard.
Great app thanks so much.
Rassilon7
2008-12-07, 21:14
I have a USB stick connected to the N810 with music on it, which I can play via the in built media player. Canola doesn't give me the option to navigate to this memory stick. iPod support might be a nice idea too as people seem to be starting to play music off that drive.
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