View Full Version : n900 gripe thread
quipper8
2009-08-27, 23:44
ok, seriously somebody has to do it. I am really excited for this device and plan to buy it as soon as I can get one anywhere on the planet, BUT,
here are my negatives so far with this thing:
1. Syncml over only BT or USB, WTF? I am coming from an e71 and the syncml is great and thorough and, oh yeah, over any network connection available on the phone. Please don't go backwards. And I will never let activesync into my networks, EVER.
2. Screen size. Yeah, so it is the same as the iphone, would it have hurt to just make it a wee bit bigger than iphone? Not necessarily n810 size, but hell, lose the nokia badge on the bezel and give the engineering team an 8-ball and get the screen maxed to the edges.
3. No portrait mode for apps other than phone. Huh? This makes no sense, so much for any hope of one handed operation.
4. Nice processor, why not take off the governor? 600mhz, come one, this thing can do almost twice that, let it rip, buy Mugen stock.
5. Ovi, Nokia messaging. OK, this is not necessarily a problem with this device per se, but I am on a roll. I hate that nokia is forcing me to consume their SERVICES and not just their DEVICES. Messaging is a nice client except for the fact that every email I receive has to go through effin Finland. Ovi chat is great and hey it is jabber, why not let me use the client on my own jabber server? I am perfectly capable of setting up my own IMAP server with very good IDLE support an long timeouts and my own jabber server.
What are yours?
It didn't take long, did it? :-D
5. Ovi, Nokia messaging. OK, this is not necessarily a problem with this device per se, but I am on a roll. I hate that nokia is forcing me to consume their SERVICES and not just their DEVICES.
Who is FORCING you to do anything?
Unlike certain other manufacturers I could mention, Nokia lets you replace almost all of the built-in apps with third party stuff if you want to (heck on Maemo you can replace the whole OS if you want to!).
Many of the third party options are even available through the built-in software (for example Share Online lets you upload pictures to Ovi Share or Flickr or Vox).
Messaging is a nice client except for the fact that every email I receive has to go through effin Finland.
If you don't like Messaging install some other e-mail app. There are plenty of them out there.
4. Nice processor, why not take off the governor? 600mhz, come one, this thing can do almost twice that, let it rip, buy Mugen stock.
Probably because most users wouldn't want to be constantly recharging their phones.
Yeah, so it is the same as the iphone, would it have hurt to just make it a wee bit bigger than iphone?
Physically bigger screens = less battery life and more expensive hardware
BTW the N900 is higher resolution than the iPhone.
3. No portrait mode for apps other than phone. Huh? This makes no sense, so much for any hope of one handed operation.
AFAIK no one has confirmed this.
ok, seriously somebody has to do it. I am really excited for this device and plan to buy it as soon as I can get one anywhere on the planet, BUT,
here are my negatives so far with this thing:
1. Syncml over only BT or USB, WTF? I am coming from an e71 and the syncml is great and thorough and, oh yeah, over any network connection available on the phone. Please don't go backwards. And I will never let activesync into my networks, EVER.
This can (and probably will) be fixed easily by a third party program.
3. No portrait mode for apps other than phone. Huh? This makes no sense, so much for any hope of one handed operation.
Again, this will probably be corrected by people other than Nokia, as it was for N8x0. Applications can also work this out for themselves - see FBReader for example.
4. Nice processor, why not take off the governor? 600mhz, come one, this thing can do almost twice that, let it rip, buy Mugen stock.
Is the processor really guaranteed to work at more thatn 600MHz? It can certainly not come close to double that. Reports I read from Pandora developers are that not all chips are even stable at 900MHz.
5. Ovi, Nokia messaging. OK, this is not necessarily a problem with this device per se, but I am on a roll. I hate that nokia is forcing me to consume their SERVICES and not just their DEVICES. Messaging is a nice client except for the fact that every email I receive has to go through effin Finland. Ovi chat is great and hey it is jabber, why not let me use the client on my own jabber server? I am perfectly capable of setting up my own IMAP server with very good IDLE support an long timeouts and my own jabber server.
apt-get remove?
Pre-emptive strike!
No D-PAD!
No Hard Cover!
EDIT: Keyboard! No Pipe Key! No Tab Key!
EDIT EDIT: ;) :D
munky261
2009-08-28, 00:08
I definitely have to agree about losing the little nokia tab on the front. If I had one I know its a damn nokia cause I bought the thing.
quipper8
2009-08-28, 00:08
It didn't take long, did it? :-D
Who is FORCING you to do anything?
Unlike certain other manufacturers I could mention, Nokia lets you replace almost all of the built-in apps with third party stuff if you want to (heck on Maemo you can replace the whole OS if you want to!).
Many of the third party options are even available through the built-in software (for example Share Online lets you upload pictures to Ovi Share or Flickr or Vox).
If you don't like Messaging install some other e-mail app. There are plenty of them out there.
Well, messaging is the best client out there as far as functionality, but you can't use it with your own imap server. Is meamo5 going to include modest or the lame symbian default client or just nokia messaging/
Probably because most users wouldn't want to be constantly recharging their phones.
Physically bigger screens = less battery life and more expensive hardware
well, maybe community will be able to have some switch or addon where we can enable this. If I am couch surfing or something while plugged in, I want all the power that is available
BTW the N900 is higher resolution than the iPhone.
I realize that. First page of the manual should teach the drill down/zoom method so you can read the screen in the browser though.
AFAIK no one has confirmed this.
attila77
2009-08-28, 00:16
Pre-emptive strike!
No D-PAD!
No Hard Cover!
What ? You didn't even mention double and full SD slots ? NIT rant test: FAIL :D
munky261
2009-08-28, 00:16
Regarding the zooming....will we be able to use the buttons on top to zoom in and out as we always have? I dont care for the swirling your finger deal.
1 - lack of hard cover. I love my red leather cover on the n800.
2 - screen protector. If the first thing anyone sensible does is slap on a screen protector, why can't Nokia do it for us?
3 - D-pad. Why can't they put it on the back?
JayOnThaBeat
2009-08-28, 00:32
Pre-emptive strike!
No D-PAD!
No Hard Cover!
EDIT: Keyboard! No Pipe Key! No Tab Key!
EDIT EDIT: ;) :D
Wait... am I slow or what???
It didnt even occur to me that there is no dpad.... i didn't think to look for it :( i was so swept away... :(
just think how well the bogged down emulators would work with all that power behind em :(
GeneralAntilles
2009-08-28, 00:34
4. Nice processor, why not take off the governor? 600mhz, come one, this thing can do almost twice that, let it rip, buy Mugen stock.
Feel like sourcing this one? You're likely to run into major stability issues pushing 900MHz. Assuming, of course, that you don't burn it out outright.
Regarding the zooming....will we be able to use the buttons on top to zoom in and out as we always have? I dont care for the swirling your finger deal.
Trust me, if they've implemented double-tap right, and if they fixed word-wrapping/fit-to-width, you won't need to swirl much, if at all.
lemmyslender
2009-08-28, 00:57
Trust me, if they've implemented double-tap right, and if they fixed word-wrapping/fit-to-width, you won't need to swirl much, if at all.
IF
I'd still rather have a couple hard buttons to use. Perhaps someone can remap the volume control buttons to work as zoom.
5. Ovi, Nokia messaging. OK, this is not necessarily a problem with this device per se, but I am on a roll. I hate that nokia is forcing me to consume their SERVICES and not just their DEVICES. Messaging is a nice client except for the fact that every email I receive has to go through effin Finland. Ovi chat is great and hey it is jabber, why not let me use the client on my own jabber server? I am perfectly capable of setting up my own IMAP server with very good IDLE support an long timeouts and my own jabber server.
Alright, let's stop the the FUD and get some clarification. How do you know that this only works with Nokia's Intellisync service? The integrated Nokia Messaging clients (see E75) support direct connection via IMAP and POP3 as well as their push service via Intellisync (http://email.nokia.com) as well as MS Active Sync via Mail for Exchange. There's no way that Nokia is going to release this device with no support for IMAP/POP3.
And in fact, that's what we see from the tech specs page here:
Email & Messaging
* Supported protocols: Mail for Exchange, IMAP, POP3, SMTP
* Support for email attachments
* Support for rich HTML
* SMS and Instant Messages as conversations
* Support for Nokia Messaging service
* Instant messaging and presence enhanced contacts
* Multiple number, email and Instant Messaging details per contact, contacts with images
* Support for assigning images to contacts
On, and we finally see threaded SMS for those that think this is important. ;)
Feel like sourcing this one? You're likely to run into major stability issues pushing 900MHz. Assuming, of course, that you don't burn it out outright.
I think he hasn't source very many of his "issues" given some of his complaints...
munky261
2009-08-28, 01:27
I agree with lemmy, Id rather use the hardware buttons.
I agree with lemmy, Id rather use the hardware buttons.
No you wouldn't. By default, zoom buttons can't guess the context of what you want zoomed. You'd rather use hardware buttons for page-up and page-down on the n900. And yes, I've remapped my browser's zoom-in and zoom-out to page-up and page-down on my n810. Now if only I had double-tap on my n810 browser...
If you don't know what double-tap is, watch qgil's demo video again. It's quickly shown before the swirling zoom. Once you have the column of interest fit-to-width, you usually only care about paging after that. But for further font-size refinement you'll have zoom menu items and client-side stylesheets.
quipper8
2009-08-28, 02:15
I think he hasn't source very many of his "issues" given some of his complaints...
this is just the first result i found from google referencing the 3430 running at 1ghz
http://www.design-reuse.com/news/15246/arm-cortex-a8-processor-performance-ti-omap3430.html
and that was in 2007
quipper8
2009-08-28, 02:22
Alright, let's stop the the FUD and get some clarification. How do you know that this only works with Nokia's Intellisync service? The integrated Nokia Messaging clients (see E75) support direct connection via IMAP and POP3 as well as their push service via Intellisync (http://email.nokia.com) as well as MS Active Sync via Mail for Exchange. There's no way that Nokia is going to release this device with no support for IMAP/POP3.
And in fact, that's what we see from the tech specs page here:
On, and we finally see threaded SMS for those that think this is important. ;)
on e71 the integrated email client that does direct imap is crap. the one from email.nokia.com is a very nice client but they only let you use that through the service. i am pretty sure this is the same situation with other models
this is just the first result i found from google referencing the 3430 running at 1ghz
http://www.design-reuse.com/news/15246/arm-cortex-a8-processor-performance-ti-omap3430.html
and that was in 2007
Oh, you mean when TI first demonstrated the capabilities on a reference design board plugged into a DC power supply and with large amounts of copper for proper heatsinking? This is a far cry from integration into the compact battery powered solution of a mobile phone. Either way we'll see this scale up soon enough and the 600MHz we're going to see is going to perform very well. Sourcing IC's that are capable of running stably at 1GHz are going to be a little expensive for a some time.
on e71 the integrated email client that does direct imap is crap. the one from email.nokia.com is a very nice client but they only let you use that through the service. i am pretty sure this is the same situation with other models
This extra install for NM on the E71 and other FP1 devices was necessary so that Nokia had an install base to test the software and serivces. The whole point is to replace the integrated mail client with the interface from Nokia Messaging. The first device to do this was the E75 and we're going to see it on the E52, E55 and E72. The same improved interface that we've all come to enjoy in NM on our E71's will be uniform for the direct IMAP/POP3 client as well as Mail for Exchange. I trialed an E75 from WOM World and the standardized interface was welcome and needed for Nokia's phones. I fully expect this in the N900, a standardized email interface that supports IMAP/POP3, Intellisync and Mail for Exchange. You'll enjoy the experience if it's as good as the E75. The only issue with the client on the E75 was that the processor was a bit underpowered for it but I don't expect those issues with a Cortex A8 powered device.
on e71 the integrated email client that does direct imap is crap. the one from email.nokia.com is a very nice client but they only let you use that through the service. i am pretty sure this is the same situation with other models
If you're interested you can read my messaging E75 review over at Howard Forums.
http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1562274 (http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1562274)
This is exactly how I expect the N900 to work except I hope they have addressed some of my issues with messaging capabilities. If I'm wrong I will be hugely disappointed but Nokia has worked hard to update its messaging client and I hope they haven't wasted that effort on this device.
quipper8
2009-08-28, 02:55
sorry, didnt know that about the e75. i would love the email.nokia.com client interface with direct imap. sounds good. thanks for the info
sorry, didnt know that about the e75. i would love the email.nokia.com client interface with direct imap. sounds good. thanks for the info
Sorry if I came off a little harsh. I really think you'll enjoy the updated interface and hope we see more of it at Nokia World.
MountainX
2009-08-28, 03:04
My gripe is that I can't buy one right now ;)
Of course, I wish the price would be really low, but that's not really a gripe because I think the estimated price is fair (just a bit too high for me).
jandmdickerson
2009-08-28, 03:25
Probably a repeat but backlit keyboard would have been nice.
Atleast i did not see it mentioned.
Display and User Interface
* Size: 3.5" touch display
* Resolution: 800 x 480 pixels (WVGA)
* Desktop with up to 4 personalisable views
* Landscape and portrait (for voice calls) modes
* 3D Graphics acceleration with support for OpenGL ES 2.0
* Brightness control
* Ambient light detector
Keys and Input Methods
* Touch screen with:
o tactile full QWERTY keyboard with word prediction
o virtual on-screen keyboard
o pen input option with stylus
* Dedicated zoom keys
* Dedicated camera
* Dedicated volume keys
* Lock key
* Notification light
* Camera key
My two gripes... T-Mobile data frequencies & no announcement about Skype - use the camera (yes/no).
jandmdickerson
2009-08-28, 04:03
My two gripes... T-Mobile data frequencies & no announcement about Skype - use the camera (yes/no).
Yes with skype video I would be buying one for me and one for my wife.;)
sachin007
2009-08-28, 04:41
Can anyone confirm/deny the following:
1. Is the stylus and a stylus holder on the n900?
2. I heard that video calling is not supported right away.. is that true?
Thanks
Can anyone confirm/deny the following:
1. Is the stylus and a stylus holder on the n900?
2. I heard that video calling is not supported right away.. is that true?
Thanks
1. Although it looks like it's in place still in the lower right edge, there's no mention of it in the What's in the box section on the Technical specifications page of the maemo.nokia.com site. I think you'll want to forward this on to Tim or Andrew to confirm while they're at Nokia World.
2. See the Communications section, under Call Management: http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/devices/nokia-n900/specifications Already been mentioned elsewhere, but it states "Videocalling availability will be announced later"
HTH
Seeing this makes me sooo want to get one....too bad it's a phone (which is MY gripe with it..): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP5R-5NX1BE&NR=1
Trust me, if they've implemented double-tap right, and if they fixed word-wrapping/fit-to-width, you won't need to swirl much, if at all.
Yep, iphone nailed this perfectly. If the N900 can copy that functionality, then that's one less thing to worry about :D
Pre-emptive strike!
No D-PAD!
No Hard Cover!
EDIT: Keyboard! No Pipe Key! No Tab Key!
EDIT EDIT: ;) :D
I don't see the Pre-emptive strike component mentioned anywhere- what's wrong with having it included? ;)
No D-PAD - we saw this coming for a little while didn't we? This is the phone variant; a d-pad is definitely more suited for the dedicated tablet format. Obviously size was a hefty determining factor. I understand your frustration though.
No Hard cover - Hmmm, as a phone I'd rather have a belt clippable holster of some kind or a quality leather sleeve but many will just get a screen protector/armor and call it good carrying it in a pocket. (maybe not those paying full initial price) I'm guessing plenty of current sleeve-type phone cases will handle this device's measurements decently. From a mass-market/consumer appeal standpoint, I can only see the metal sleeve type of previous models being an option down the road if at all since this has no markings to indicate edges to ride, perhaps again left for a Maemo 5 tablet form factor. Without a real hard bezel to lift a case from the display, you'd have to take a different approach to design.
Keyboard etc. - Have we seen much of the virtual keyboard yet? I recall a pic which mimmicked the 4.x virtual keyboard fairly well. Obviously chances are greater for more character choices there, but do we really know what the Ctrl modifier on the hardwware keyboard will do yet? And what about the shift key- who says you can't hold it and press either of the left/right directional arrows and navigate as tabs that way? That may not be the exact method but there should be more than a few ways to generate the results you're looking for, given a little creativity on the programmer's part. And the Sym button- will that pop up a virtual selection of extended symbols such as the pipe you're looking for? Wouldn't it be sweet if each keypad button was OLED and you could see the image of its function change with each modifier?
Overall I think one has to look at this at face value- it's a high-end consumer phone with killer web-enabling technologies that will inevitably explode beyond what we see here to include so much more compatibility and convenience that will solidify it's position as the do-everything platform and tool to never leave at home, forget in your car, nor walk more than 3 feet from as you'll always be going back for it.
@daveb70: what do you mean d-pad is more suited to 'web tablet variant' and not the phone variant, whne nokia has been releasing a gajillion of phones in the past WITH d-pads..
Btw, what's with calling up on screen cursor?
I saw it in the youtube video when they're demo-ing the browser.
daveb7: I was trying to call out some of the common complaints from the last few months to avoid having them brought up later. It didn't work.
JayOnThaBeat
2009-08-28, 06:19
daveb7: I was trying to call out some of the common complaints from the last few months to avoid having them brought up later. It didn't work.
Oh, it worked... if you were tryin to piss me off about the dpad ;)
Btw, what's with calling up on screen cursor?
I saw it in the youtube video when they're demo-ing the browser.
Yeah, what was that all about? Maybe there will be a vertical Maemo announcement, 'cause that had desktop written all over it.
ColdFusion
2009-08-28, 06:30
I nominate this "The most uninformed thread!" :D
"I heard this rumour, I didn't read the specs or watched the videos... ergo I hate the n900" :D
imperiallight
2009-08-28, 06:30
I am going to be an early adopter but this thing is fat at 19-20mm at certain areas (not 18).
What ? You didn't even mention double and full SD slots ? NIT rant test: FAIL :D
I've been thinking about this since you wrote it, and I don't believe it will be a big deal like it was with the N810.
The N810 came with significantly less onboard storage than my N800 had by that point. Also, it used an expensive, non-standard card.
With 32 GB on board and a micro SD slot (micro SD seems to be a lot less expensive than the goofy mini SD in the 810) I don't think people will start griping about this on the N900...
...until next year. ;)
verumgero
2009-08-28, 07:23
BUT I DON"T WANT A PHONE! lol I guess that is my only gripe. I have a phone and I like it. But hey, that's life right?
benny1967
2009-08-28, 07:26
1. Syncml over only BT or USB, WTF? I am coming from an e71 and the syncml is great and thorough and, oh yeah, over any network connection available on the phone. Please don't go backwards. And I will never let activesync into my networks, EVER.
no syncML via http? seriously?!?! how am i supposed to sync, then? i'd missed that issue so far.
sounds even less excciting now. hope syncevolution will still work.
The stand looks gay, sorry couldn't find any more gripe.
The stand looks gay, sorry couldn't find any more gripe.
Looks gay? Uh.
JayOnThaBeat
2009-08-28, 07:42
Looks gay? Uh.
It likes to have sex with stands of the same sex.
Duh.
It likes to have sex with stands of the same sex.
Duh.
Ah, that makes sense. I first took it as an ignorant red-neck comment.
Thanks for the correction.
JayOnThaBeat
2009-08-28, 08:08
Ah, that makes sense. I first took it as an ignorant red-neck comment.
Thanks for the correction.
It's the lexicon. I wouldn't take any personal offense to it.
I say stuff's gay all the time. Just a force of habit.
I blame the 90s
verumgero
2009-08-28, 08:09
Ah, that makes sense. I first took it as an ignorant red-neck comment.
Thanks for the correction.
I think you both might be right.
My real issue is with it being a phone. I live in Japan and I have a phone with Softbank. They are pretty cool in that they have good English support (my Japanese is terrible, I sound like a 3rd grader) and they are pretty cheap. The problem is that they only let you use their supported phones. No outside handsets. So unless they pick up the N900 I am out of luck, unless I feel like changing carriers. Wow, as I type this I realize how torn I really am . . . maybe I would switch to Doccomo just to have this thing . . . hmmm.
Oh yeah, the stand is a little funky though.
JayOnThaBeat
2009-08-28, 08:13
I think you both might be right.
So you think the stand is bisexual????
Now I'm really confused (like the stand apparently).
I'm going to bed...sleep off this day of excitement (and rum ;))
Night, y'all.
Please, don't believe the pages where is said that the email client is Nokia Messaging, it isn't. The email client is Modest, the same Diablo client but with bugfixes, new features, and new UI (and surely new bugs). It supports POP, SMTP and IMAP.
My gripe about Nokia phones is how they lose resale value so quick.. so I'm not looking forward to buying the first batch.
Whereas something like the iPhone, you can buy, try it out and resell it at an even higher price if you don't like it :D (ok, that's not a fair comparison.. but, you get the idea :P )
Looks gay? Uh.
sorry just my habit for not finding the right word (woke up till 4am reading about n900 and alarm at 8am) I really don't like the stand built in n900, it looks small and fragile compared to n800 and n810.
attila77
2009-08-28, 09:24
no announcement about Skype - use the camera (yes/no).
Still mobile skype, so that's a 99% no. Get over it, Skype (as an application) sucks. Mobile Skype even more so. Mobile Skype on Linux... Uh, let's not elaborate :)
Still mobile skype, so that's a 99% no. Get over it, Skype (as an application) sucks. Mobile Skype even more so. Mobile Skype on Linux... Uh, let's not elaborate :)
You didn't have to dash my hopes that harshly ;)
attila77
2009-08-28, 09:31
You didn't have to dash my hopes that harshly ;)
Sorry :) On the bright side, we'll have a flesh and blood Skype manager giving a presentation on the Summit. I wonder how long will it take until he gets this question pinned to him :) The 'CPU is not powerful enough' excuse is getting lame :)
I am still wondering if there is the possibility to send MMS messages? If there is not, then I complain about that. Otherwise I can't find anything to complain about.
Still mobile skype, so that's a 99% no. Get over it, Skype (as an application) sucks. Mobile Skype even more so. Mobile Skype on Linux... Uh, let's not elaborate :)
There are rumors that the Linux version has been used successfully...
sjgadsby
2009-08-28, 10:50
...what's with calling up on screen cursor?
The second mode allows for cursor positioning without passing a "click" through to the web page. The simplest use for this would be to activate mouse-over controls, but it's for all web applications that expect a user to be able to move the cursor without a button-down, button-up. At their Maemo Summit 2008 session, Andrey Petrov and timeless announced the Fremantle the browser would support switching between two user-interaction states like this. At the time, they didn't yet know if the switch would be accomplished via a hardware button or on-screen control though.
The second mode allows for cursor positioning without passing a "click" through to the web page. The simplest use for this would be to activate mouse-over controls, but it's for all web applications that expect a user to be able to move the cursor without a button-down, button-up. At their Maemo Summit 2008 session, Andrey Petrov and timeless announced the Fremantle the browser would support switching between two user-interaction states like this. At the time, they didn't yet know if the switch would be accomplished via a hardware button or on-screen control though.
How is right click accomplished?
sjgadsby
2009-08-28, 11:08
How is right click accomplished?
I don't recall them saying exactly how a right-click would supported. If I recall correctly, the feature announcement was more general, not going into specifics of what button or on-screen control would do what.
Tim and Andrew may be able to say more in a week.
benny1967
2009-08-28, 11:12
How is right click accomplished?
i think about this too all the time since i read the details about the browser.
not being able to do things like "save image", "copy image location", "open link in new window (tab?)", "copy link".... would mean i'd have to wait until an alternative browser becomes available. i can't recall one single brwosing session without using any of these functions.
Anunakin
2009-08-28, 11:14
N900, has accelerometer?
With the capacitive screen, i think right click (context menu) would be called up by holding down for more than a sec.
attila77
2009-08-28, 11:22
There are rumors that the Linux version has been used successfully...
Full Skype on ARM Linux ? Linkie ? :)
attila77
2009-08-28, 11:22
N900, has accelerometer?
Has ! 3D at that !
Full Skype on ARM Linux ? Linkie ? :)
Ummm Linux in general :)
timsamoff
2009-08-28, 11:44
Apparently, they left out my Pop Tart slot idea. This sucks. I do not want one anymore.
Tim
My two gripes... T-Mobile data frequencies & no announcement about Skype - use the camera (yes/no).
Well, there are at least two Skype employees registered for Maemo Summit... Something's cookin'.
benny1967
2009-08-28, 12:00
With the capacitive screen, i think right click (context menu) would be called up by holding down for more than a sec.
... same way as with the 770s/N800s/N810s resistive screen. how would touch screen technology influence such a UI design decision???
the question is if it's implemented at all. - a lot has been left out because "the average user doesn't need it". - i hate the average user. if ever i meet him he's in trouble. serious trouble.
attila77
2009-08-28, 12:14
Ummm Linux in general :)
Ah that. Well, it took them a couple of years to finish a 64 bit version, even, much less an ARM port. Ah. Wait. They didn't finish it, it's still in beta ! :)
n900 will really be too heavy !!! Specially with 32Go !!!
source : http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090813011739AAOmUFw
poor joke :)
Ah that. Well, it took them a couple of years to finish a 64 bit version, even, much less an ARM port. Ah. Wait. They didn't finish it, it's still in beta ! :)
It is usable, nevertheless.
sjgadsby
2009-08-28, 12:57
Apparently, they left out my Pop Tart slot idea. This sucks. I do not want one anymore.
May I have yours then, please? I prefer my Pop Tarts untoasted anyway.
ikarizdat
2009-08-28, 12:57
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/5377/nokiaitpricesf.jpg
No comment :D
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/5377/nokiaitpricesf.jpg
No comment :D
So... uh... call me uncultured, but... euros are worth less in France than in the rest of Europe? I thought we all saw the "500 euros" price... so I don't know why the chart is saying 650... unless it's a joke or...
Enlighten me.
So... uh... call me uncultured, but... euros are worth less in France than in the rest of Europe? I thought we all saw the "500 euros" price... so I don't know why the chart is saying 650... unless it's a joke or...
Enlighten me.
500 euros without taxes (VAT). So you add taxes and some more because everything is always more expensive than announced :)
attila77
2009-08-28, 13:32
So... uh... call me uncultured, but... euros are worth less in France than in the rest of Europe?
European VAT (taxes) are not uniform, member countries can decide between 15% and 25% as they fit (with some rare exceptions). 650 would be 30%, so there some extra fee or tax involved probably (for example in Serbia we also have an extra 10% mobile phone 'luxury tax').
So... uh... call me uncultured, but... euros are worth less in France than in the rest of Europe? I thought we all saw the "500 euros" price... so I don't know why the chart is saying 650... unless it's a joke or...
Enlighten me.
Heavy VAT? It's 599 in Germany with 19% VAT +EUR 4,- to get a x99 price ...
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/5377/nokiaitpricesf.jpg
No comment :D
Comment :
I remember the N810 was at 500€ (Ok, 499€) in France when it first was out. That sucked since that was the highest price in all Europe, and that was the reason I bought a QWERTY version on eBay instead.
I even found a proof of that : here (http://blog.lmartin.fr/dc2/index.php/post/2007/12/05/Le-Nokia-N810-enfin-disponible-en-France)
If the N900 is 500€ in France too, I'm buying it from Nokia this time. (and it would totally change the slope on your chart)
PS : but I believe the price will be over 500€, since it's already 599€ in preorder in Germany and we have a higher VAT.
There is no bluetooth DUN or PAN. That's kind of major flaw for a phone. I know that it's not too hard to make community support for this, but it should be there out of box for >500EUR phone.
Prices are by no means equal even throughout Europe, let alone the US. I got my N810 from US, just because it was say 130 euros cheaper than it was in Germany, and some 200 euros cheaper than it was in Serbia. You can see this even now, with ordinary Nokia phones:
For example Nokia E71 costs 340€ in Germany, but only 310$ in the US?!
I could never understand that... :(
benny1967
2009-08-28, 14:27
There is no bluetooth DUN or PAN. That's kind of major flaw for a phone. I know that it's not too hard to make community support for this, but it should be there out of box for >500EUR phone.
oh ... :(
so does that mean you cannot use the N900 as a BT-modem for your old N810?
or that you cannot tether it to another BT enabled phone if you decide to use it without a SIM card?
or both?
There is no bluetooth DUN or PAN. That's kind of major flaw for a phone. I know that it's not too hard to make community support for this, but it should be there out of box for >500EUR phone.
Are you sure?
DUN has its own component in the Connectivity product in bugzilla.
And bluez has "--enable-pand" (and --enable-dund) in the build options, and AFAIK in Diablo it doesn't.
penguinbait
2009-08-28, 14:43
Connectivity
Bluetooth: 2.1 (A2DP / AVRCP / DUN / HFP / HSP / OPP)
Are you sure?
DUN has its own component in the Connectivity product in bugzilla.
And bluez has "--enable-pand" (and --enable-dund) in the build options, and AFAIK in Diablo it doesn't.
Of course I can't be 100% sure until I see it myself. But DUN or PAN is not mentioned in specs.
From http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/N900
Bluetooth Profiles: A2DP, AVRCP, FTP, HFP, HSP, OPP
Maemo4 had DUN support so that's why it's in bugzilla. Bluez has the support, that's not the question. But if it's enabled AND if there's a GUI to use it, that's the question.
Connectivity
Bluetooth: 2.1 (A2DP / AVRCP / DUN / HFP / HSP / OPP)
Where did you get that?
ikarizdat
2009-08-28, 14:47
Comment :
I remember the N810 was at 500€ (Ok, 499€) in France when it first was out. That sucked since that was the highest price in all Europe, and that was the reason I bought a QWERTY version on eBay instead.
I even found a proof of that : here (http://blog.lmartin.fr/dc2/index.php/post/2007/12/05/Le-Nokia-N810-enfin-disponible-en-France)
I didn't remember it was such a high price, but it seems you're right. I got the price from the release announcement, which said 449 euros. It doesn't change the general increasing tendency, though.
As for the N900, I don't believe the French price will be under the German one. I bet for 649 euros, as mentionned on most French sites.
penguinbait
2009-08-28, 15:28
Where did you get that?
Actually I got that from here
http://www.mobiledia.com/phones/nokia/n900.html
But the Nokia site shows
http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/devices/nokia-n900/specifications#hardware-con
# Bluetooth version 2.1
# Bluetooth profiles: HFP, HSP, A2DP, AVRCP, FTP, OPP
Thats not good at all. :(
Please, don't believe the pages where is said that the email client is Nokia Messaging, it isn't. The email client is Modest, the same Diablo client but with bugfixes, new features, and new UI (and surely new bugs). It supports POP, SMTP and IMAP.
...and I'm sure some of the old bugs are still around, too!
allnameswereout
2009-08-28, 16:31
on e71 the integrated email client that does direct imap is crap. the one from email.nokia.com is a very nice client but they only let you use that through the service. i am pretty sure this is the same situation with other modelsWhy is crap, why is nice? I find the integrated good, but the addon was buggy. And I don't like.
quipper8
2009-08-28, 16:39
Why is crap, why is nice? I find the integrated good, but the addon was buggy. And I don't like.
The integrated app crap:
txt only display is poor, not much graphic delineation in message list view or message view
deleting message, you must wait for it to delete on server before doing anything else with an un-dismissable dialog and when deleting a message over edge it can take a while
the retrieval and auto retrieval settings don't really work and get 'lost'
Your email gets intermingled with your sms and not in a good kind of contact centric way like some clients do now
I am sure there are some other things that led me to think it is crap, but I have not used it in quite a while
I have a gripe and I wonder if anyone else noticed this.. In one of the marketing video's the user had Google Talk open and to call the person they had to get out of google talk and go to the desktop and clicked a contact widget. I think you should be able to just click on the person's picture in Google Talk and it should bring up there contact info. Wouldn't that make more sense?
shadowjk
2009-08-28, 16:57
Is the processor really guaranteed to work at more thatn 600MHz? It can certainly not come close to double that. Reports I read from Pandora developers are that not all chips are even stable at 900MHz.
I have a vague memory of reading a TI spec on the omap3 chip used in BeagleBoard, iirc the CPU expected lifetime is significantly reduced already at 600MHz compared to 500MHz. I dont remember exactly, but it could've been factor of 10 difference... Still long enough to last us until the next generation of devices, though :)
Speculating, At 800-900 I imagine the expected lifetime could be too short for nokia to be comfortable a significant amount wouldn't fail within the standard 2 year warranty.
allnameswereout
2009-08-28, 17:39
txt only display is poor, not much graphic delineation in message list view or message viewTrue, but you see more messages in list. That is a sacrifice to be made. The font used is hegemonic with the rest of the device; in contrast to Nokia Messaging. Nokia Messaging, like Modest, shows more details of the messages at the expense of number of messages shown.
Your email gets intermingled with your sms and not in a good kind of contact centric way like some clients do nowActually I love how its easy to browse through e-mail and SMS and such on E71, and integrate both in your contacts, giving you choice. Entirely different interfaces for applications on same device which do roughly the same is not a good thing.
In contrast, Nokia Messaging would never retrieve new e-mail. First it gotten my last 9 e-mail. But after that it went poof. I could press Sync a thousand times. Nothing happened. While I had new e-mail all the time. But its OK, I didn't like the interface too much, because it was not fast enough to use like previous default SMS/e-mail interface. (EPOC I think it called.)
My gripe, looking at the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP5R-5NX1BE&NR=1 , since the screen is resistive, I'll have to be browsing with my finger nail rather than my finger tip.
Paxicide
2009-08-28, 20:45
My gripe, looking at the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP5R-5NX1BE&NR=1 , since the screen is resistive, I'll have to be browsing with my finger nail rather than my finger tip.
Why?? The N810 is resistive and I have very short nails and it works fine....:D Just use your finger tips;)
I have a gripe and I wonder if anyone else noticed this.. In one of the marketing video's the user had Google Talk open and to call the person they had to get out of google talk and go to the desktop and clicked a contact widget. I think you should be able to just click on the person's picture in Google Talk and it should bring up there contact info. Wouldn't that make more sense?
Yes I noticed that and thought that strange. It would be even worse if the contact wasn't directly on your desktop and you had to search for them through the contacts list. Hopefully there will be a shortcut in the Conversations app to link directly to the contact.
kanishou
2009-08-31, 12:19
The second mode allows for cursor positioning without passing a "click" through to the web page. The simplest use for this would be to activate mouse-over controls, but it's for all web applications that expect a user to be able to move the cursor without a button-down, button-up. At their Maemo Summit 2008 session, Andrey Petrov and timeless announced the Fremantle the browser would support switching between two user-interaction states like this. At the time, they didn't yet know if the switch would be accomplished via a hardware button or on-screen control though.
Also, for text selection. Less error-prone than the double-tap-to-select feature.
Edit: Actually I read that wrong. This is not quite correct, the cursor mode is simply for interacting with a website (instead of panning).
JayOnThaBeat
2009-08-31, 18:08
You know what really grinds my gears??? :D
NO D-PAD!!!!!!!!!!
qwerty12
2009-08-31, 18:13
The arrow buttons are certainly an improvement over the crap they put on the N810. It still makes me sad when I look at the D-Pad on my N800, and then look at the one on my N810.
The french store have it for 599 Euros.
Of course out of stock :)
Actually I got that from here
http://www.mobiledia.com/phones/nokia/n900.html
But the Nokia site shows
http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/devices/nokia-n900/specifications#hardware-con
# Bluetooth version 2.1
# Bluetooth profiles: HFP, HSP, A2DP, AVRCP, FTP, OPP
Thats not good at all. :(
Whoa, an N-series device without DUN? Is this a first? Without checking, it seems very rare. Quite unlike Nokia to cripple a feature like this. What's the story here?
.
I have had my N810 for quite a while now. Does anyone know if there is a newer version coming out that I can spend my money on?
I really like the Internet Tablet device. I can take it with me when I want, I can leave it home when I don't need it, I can listen to music, browse the web, read RSS, read a book while at home/on a train/at soccer practice.
Did I say I can leave it home when I don't need it or want to protect it from damage? But still take my small cell phone with me all the time :)
This N900 device is not a replacement to the N810. I hope there will be one someday...
JayOnThaBeat
2009-09-01, 01:52
I have had my N810 for quite a while now. Does anyone know if there is a newer version coming out that I can spend my money on?
I really like the Internet Tablet device. I can take it with me when I want, I can leave it home when I don't need it, I can listen to music, browse the web, read RSS, read a book while at home/on a train/at soccer practice.
Did I say I can leave it home when I don't need it or want to protect it from damage? But still take my small cell phone with me all the time :)
I felt the vibe that there was something clever / sarcastic / (witty?) implied there, I just can't put my finger on it.... maybe edit it, underlining the clever part... or footnotes, perhaps...
DId I say footnotes? Or maybe highlight the (funny?) part in red :)
On, and we finally see threaded SMS for those that think this is important. ;)
iirc, nokia feature phones did that years ago...
No Hard Cover!
I was promised a magnifying glass attachment that doubled as a hard case!!!! ;)
JayOnThaBeat
2009-09-01, 02:15
I was promised a magnifying glass attachment that doubled as a hard case!!!! ;)
ala GameBoy?
http://www.retro-gameshop.nl/gameboy/gameboyclassichandyboyspeakers.jpg
Although I don't remember the speakers being there when I had one....
munky261
2009-09-01, 03:21
Holy crap!!! I used to have that thing!! LOL
JayOnThaBeat
2009-09-01, 03:22
Holy crap!!! I used to have that thing!! LOL
With the speakers?
I had the magnifying light thing, but that seems like a juiced-up version....
There were lots of different versions by different third-party suppliers. There was no official Nintendo version.
The french store have it for 599 Euros.
Of course out of stock :)
Now for 649€ in the French store...
deadmalc
2009-09-01, 13:34
Well it's better than the UK store :-(
http://shop.nokia.co.uk/nokia-uk/searchresults.aspx?keyword=n900
Alan_Peery
2009-09-01, 17:39
If you don't know what double-tap is, watch qgil's demo video again. It's quickly shown before the swirling zoom.
When I looked, I saw a double-click-to-focus that focused on the wrong thing. I imagine it must be a trick of the filming, because choosing the right part of the DOM model of the page is reasonably well researched. For instance, the YARIP extension to FireFox understands how to do it...
My one gripe: it's not already in my hands!
danramos
2009-09-01, 18:07
There were lots of different versions by different third-party suppliers. There was no official Nintendo version.
Nice that there was some third party support.. and replacement parts.. and upgrades.. and, man---I weep about the way Nokia has handled the Tablets sometimes.
allnameswereout
2009-09-01, 18:14
600 EUR in NL. (http://shop.nokia.nl/nokia-nl/product.aspx?sku=6958651&culture=nl-NL&DCMP=BAC-homepageteaser_nokia-nl_reserveer-n900-in-de-shop) Should have a standard QWERTY keyboard.
(Still CC only)
sjgadsby
2009-09-01, 18:42
Nice that there was some third party support.. and replacement parts.. and upgrades.. and, man---I weep about the way Nokia has handled the Tablets sometimes.
Third party accessories appear when a product is big enough to warrant them. Most Nintendo gaming systems have achieved that level of success. Nokia phones regularly achieve that level of success. The tablets saw screen protectors, automotive mounts, and cases, but never grew large enough to spark an explosion of accessories.
You can fault Nokia for not advertising the tablets, though that appears to have been by deliberate design, but it's not as though they actively prevented other companies from producing accessories.
As for NOA's repair service during the era of the original Game Boy, I wasn't overly impressed. When our NES died, we had to drive two hours the nearest authorized repair drop-off point--a kiosk in a mall--and return a few weeks later when the repair was finished. My last name and old address are still scrawled in black marker on the bottom of both controllers and the console itself, as the kiosk employee warned us that Nintendo often lost units otherwise.
The Fremantle SDK looks like crap and feels like crap. I wonder how Nokia wants to attract lots of developers with such an ugly, partially inverse-colored, and sluggish SDK.
danramos
2009-09-01, 19:54
Third party accessories appear when a product is big enough to warrant them. Most Nintendo gaming systems have achieved that level of success. Nokia phones regularly achieve that level of success. The tablets saw screen protectors, automotive mounts, and cases, but never grew large enough to spark an explosion of accessories.
You can fault Nokia for not advertising the tablets, though that appears to have been by deliberate design, but it's not as though they actively prevented other companies from producing accessories.
As for NOA's repair service during the era of the original Game Boy, I wasn't overly impressed. When our NES died, we had to drive two hours the nearest authorized repair drop-off point--a kiosk in a mall--and return a few weeks later when the repair was finished. My last name and old address are still scrawled in black marker on the bottom of both controllers and the console itself, as the kiosk employee warned us that Nintendo often lost units otherwise.
Meanwhile, if I want to get my tablet fixed, I have to mail it somewhere else in the world and be without it for well over a month and HOPE that someone will mail it back to me.
I'd rather at LEAST have a kiosk in a mall with a receipt showing that I'd dropped it off in case I never saw it again. :P
or have it returned unfixed because your in the wrong part of the world vs where it was supposed to be sold...
When I looked, I saw a double-click-to-focus that focused on the wrong thing. I imagine it must be a trick of the filming, because choosing the right part of the DOM model of the page is reasonably well researched. For instance, the YARIP extension to FireFox understands how to do it...
You're right, something seems wrong there. He double-tapped on a full-width banner and it zoomed to the lower right column. What? I wonder if that's just some default behavior. If so, maybe the user can customize the default zooming behavior on a site-by-site basis. Mobile browser plugins are definitely one of the my future battle fronts.
checking the page used as a demonstration, its a mess of div and span, css code and also the part we see is already somewhat zoomed in, as there is a large border around the main page content...
could be that the zoom code got confused about where one section of the page ends and another begins...
kanishou
2009-09-01, 21:05
checking the page used as a demonstration, its a mess of div and span, css code and also the part we see is already somewhat zoomed in, as there is a large border around the main page content...
could be that the zoom code got confused about where one section of the page ends and another begins...
It can happen, but usually it gets it right. Especially when tapping on text columns (which is the typical use case).
well this was a graphical banner...
checking the page used as a demonstration, its a mess of div and span, css code and also the part we see is already somewhat zoomed in, as there is a large border around the main page content...
could be that the zoom code got confused about where one section of the page ends and another begins...
Yeah, the microb zooming could still be a work in progress, but the renderer made good decisions where to put the pixels, so a tap should know what section it's in.
I just went there with my iPod touch and everything zoomed as expected.
heh, one last guess could be that the screen went a bit wild about where the pointer was, hard to tell with there being no onscreen indicator...
heh, one last guess could be that the screen went a bit wild about where the pointer was, hard to tell with there being no onscreen indicator...
I forgot about that pointer mode. Man, Nokia is blazing some funky trails in mobile browser land.
"Screens Gone Wild"
The Fremantle SDK looks like crap and feels like crap. I wonder how Nokia wants to attract lots of developers with such an ugly, partially inverse-colored, and sluggish SDK.
I agree that the SDK doesn't look very good.
I hope that they release a nicer-looking SDK now that the N900 has been released.
Well it's better than the UK store :-(
http://shop.nokia.co.uk/nokia-uk/searchresults.aspx?keyword=n900
It's listed now, at £499.00. Also at supetrader.co.uk (http://www.superetrader.co.uk/nokia-n900-media-tablet-ukqwerty-p-9711.html) for £399.99 - no idea if they'll honour that price, but I pre-ordered an N810 from them a couple of years ago and had no problems apart from the general slowness in fulfilling demand (which every shop had at the time).
It's listed now, at £499.00. Also at supetrader.co.uk (http://www.superetrader.co.uk/nokia-n900-media-tablet-ukqwerty-p-9711.html) for £399.99 - no idea if they'll honour that price, but I pre-ordered an N810 from them a couple of years ago and had no problems apart from the general slowness in fulfilling demand (which every shop had at the time).
Noticed that this was advertising only dual band UTMS:
Network:
■ GSM: 850/900/1800/1900 (Quad-Band)
■ WCDMA: 900/2100 (Dual-Band)
Wouldn't work on tmobile 3g if those figures are accurate. Any guesses as to whether this is a typo or a feature of UK N900s?
Probably an error. The shop.nokia.co.uk page (http://shop.nokia.co.uk/nokia-uk/product.aspx?sku=6957363§ion_id=530&culture=en-GB) says:
Quad-band EGSM 850/900/1800/1900, WCDMA 900/1700/2100
But the Nokia site shows
http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/devices/nokia-n900/specifications#hardware-con
# Bluetooth version 2.1
# Bluetooth profiles: HFP, HSP, A2DP, AVRCP, FTP, OPP
Thats not good at all. :(
From post #10 of this thread:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31057
"Actually Johan Hedberg, our BlueZ developer, is planning to start a wiki page providing the information needed to handle the unsupported BT profiles in Maemo 5. He is busy with the final release but the info will be there in time.
For what it says it shouldn't be complicated. "
__________________
zkyevolved
2009-09-18, 15:52
OK. I'm a tad bit confused. Will Maemo 5 have Nokia Messaging installed? Or will it run another app for Mail? Because i know that NM uses Imap Idle to deliver mail instantly (something I've grown to love and need). Does the new Maemo 5 default mail client support Imap-Idle protocol for Gmail? :s
Thanks in advance :D
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