n900 as an internet tablet [Archive] - maemo.org

Laughing Man

2009-08-28, 23:08

The screen doesn't look all that much smaller to me. Same resolution and much faster browser means a much better experience to me anyways.

I think someone described how to tell the difference in screen size. Take an n800/n810. Look at the desktop of it. Now where the left sidebar icons are and the top status bar. Chop those off, that's around a 3.5 inch screen. So as long as Maemo5 doesn't have any horrible UI decisions then it should do fine on screen size (assuming you rarely fullscreened).

lemmyslender

2009-08-28, 23:08

Except the screen is what 30% smaller? Which means all the text will be 30% smaller and less readable unless I zoom in. Once I zoom in, I have less info on the screen, and have to scroll more often.

Of course with the faster system, I guess those scrolls will be faster and smoother. That will kind of suck, all the extra scrolling though. Same goes for fbreader as well (or reading any document really). No more holding and paging forward and back easily with one hand using the zoom buttons, unless the volume buttons can be hacked for the same thing.

That really detracts from the experience for me.

YoDude

2009-08-28, 23:47

I don't need and can't use a phone other than a company assigned one on a company wide network that is not supported by the N900. :eek:

I will be paying at least $700 for my next portable device so price isn't affecting my opinion... From what I have seen so far, traditional tablet usability may have been compromised in order to support costumer expectations of a cell phone. That certainly is the case with regard to visible things like screen size, d-pad, and function keys; I suspect it may also be the case with the firm/software its own dang self. I mean who wants a dialing pad for cell phone they can't use popping up because they moved the wrong way or an application developer is incorrectly calling an API?.

Other than a PIM, nothing seems revolutionary regarding application function over the existing N8** tablets. I also suspect that some versions of the new apps on the N900 will become available for N8** devices once developers familiar with both operating systems become more involved.

For a new internet tablet user, at almost $600 less, a used N8** is a bargain. For existing IT only users, as Sachin007 has posted earlier, an N900 really isn't a cost effective upgrade.

BTW, ^that is my opinion YMMV. :)

lemmyslender

2009-08-29, 00:42

sachin007

2009-08-29, 02:47

Anyone have any idea how we would be able to switch out of full screen when in a non-fremantlized app? Say fbreader. Without a hardware button, assuming fbreader is catching the screen taps (for paging, highlighting, etc), how do we get back out of full screen? Same goes for bringing up a menu without a menu key?

Using fbreader in anything less than full screen on this small of a screen would be completely unacceptable.

I think there is a short cut based on hardware buttons which let you go to the task switcher. Observe the meamo interface documentary closely you will see qgil's buddy pressing some hardware buttons to pull up the task switcher.

codeMonkey

2009-08-29, 08:26

Quote from Johnx (http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=292386&postcount=1)

"-The LCD was very bright and clear, and I had no problem reading on it. I was later told that the screen is 3.5" but I wouldn't have guessed without someone telling me."

I'll have to see for myself before judging, but I'm pretty sure I'll be pre-ordering.

ralphb

2009-08-29, 09:01

I've been wondering if the reason Nokia describe the N900 as an "Internet Tablet" rather than as a "Mobile Phone", might be due to the only information that doesn't seem to be mentioned in the published Technical Specifications (http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/specifications/) - the expected operating time on a full charge.

My N800's BP-5L battery is rated at 1500mAh and only gives me about 3hrs running when disconnected from a charger. However, I see that the N900's BL-5J battery is only rated at 1320mAh and will have to cope with GSM & GPS too. I expect about 1.5hrs, or less.

No way could they get away with selling something with this sort of standby/talk time as a "Mobile Phone". However, as a constant user of an "Internet Tablet" I'd welcome the GSM and (built in) GPS functionality, and am used to the need to keep a charger with me.

Does anyone have any concrete data on the battery operating times?

attila77

2009-08-29, 09:20

My N800's BP-5L battery is rated at 1500mAh and only gives me about 3hrs running when disconnected from a charger.

Hold it right there. 3hrs off the charger is NOT normal battery life. Either your battery is getting worn out, or there is something in your tablet's config/apps preventing it from idling.

Does anyone have any concrete data on the battery operating times?

Specs can be misleading in that sense (who knows what usage pattern is assumed), so that will be realistically known only after the users get the production units and report back what usage patterns yield what battery life.

vvaz

2009-08-29, 10:46

My N800's BP-5L battery is rated at 1500mAh and only gives me about 3hrs running when disconnected from a charger.

Or you have some background process eating battery or it is broken. With new battery and some energy saving tricks I was able to get even 8h of life with normal apps running and some browsing.

Life was reduced with more internet browsing, audio or using in bright light down to 2h when viewing movies.

Everything went down with battery, screen degradation for 2 years but even now I get more than 3h for my regular use (mostly fbreader and some fact checking on internet).

ralphb

2009-08-29, 14:51

Hold it right there. 3hrs off the charger is NOT normal battery life. Either your battery is getting worn out, or there is something in your tablet's config/apps preventing it from idling.

Ah, yes, my 3hrs usage is not idling, but listening to podcasts/mp3s usually. Screen blank most of the time. The battery may be getting a little old, but I don't remember it being much better when new.

Specs can be misleading in that sense (who knows what usage pattern is assumed), so that will be realistically known only after the users get the production units and report back what usage patterns yield what battery life.

Mobile phones are usually quoted with talk-time and standby-time. These two, at least, are conspicuously lacking for the N900. I surmise, therefore, that they are embarrassingly low.

For this device I would also like to see:
- video playback time
- audio playback time (through headphones/speakers/transmitter)
- browsing time without flash
- browsing time with flash
- time operating with GPS with 10% screen non-blanked

pelago

2009-08-29, 16:02

I've been wondering if the reason Nokia describe the N900 as an "Internet Tablet" rather than as a "Mobile Phone"...
Do they? Link?

lemmyslender

2009-08-29, 16:36

I think there is a short cut based on hardware buttons which let you go to the task switcher. Observe the meamo interface documentary closely you will see qgil's buddy pressing some hardware buttons to pull up the task switcher.

I saw that, but, not real happy with that as a solution. One or two more hardware buttons would've made user interaction much slicker/easier/better (imho).

For instance, I use fbreader alot. Typically, I launch it switch to fullscreen and use the hardware keys to page - 1 handed use. Move my finger slightly and I'm back to windowed mode, minimize or switch to a different task (say launch flipclock before I go to sleep).

With the N900, I'd have to slide the keyboard open, press a key(s), tap on the screen to get back to the desk top, then select another program. Then close the keyboard again.

Same type of thing goes for in-car use. Say using GPS and listening to music. Want to switch tracks, pause, etc. Right now reach out, hit the fullscreen button (accessible in my car mount) tap to bring up my music player, another tap goes back to GPS and a quick click back to fullscreen.

With the N900, I'd have to remove from holder, slide out the keyboard, press some keys (2 handed while driving???), change programs, change back, fullscreen, slide keyboard, put back in holder. Way too much work and dangerous.

Currently, it's no worse than changing radio stations, with the N900 it'd be more like texting. Not a good thing.

attila77

2009-08-29, 16:48

Ah, yes, my 3hrs usage is not idling, but listening to podcasts/mp3s usually. Screen blank most of the time. The battery may be getting a little old, but I don't remember it being much better when new.

Let me put it this way. On my N810 I get a little over 4 hours of video playback and all-day screen-off mp3 playback (10+ hours). I understand the N810 has somewhat better battery management than the N800 but not NEARLY as much as to account for such a disrepancy.

scaler

2009-08-29, 17:16

I've been wondering if the reason Nokia describe the N900 as an "Internet Tablet" rather than as a "Mobile Phone"

Pelago replied asking for a link, but didn't exactly contradict you. I'll fill in the missing bit. In the publicity I've seen from Nokia itself, rather than from non-Nokia commentators, the description is "Mobile Computer".

Here is the link:
http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/

ralphb

2009-08-29, 19:14

Do they? Link?

I got the "Internet Tablet" thing from The Register (http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/08/27/nokia_n900/).

HTH.

luca

2009-08-29, 19:20

Let me put it this way. On my N810 I get a little over 4 hours of video playback and all-day screen-off mp3 playback (10+ hours). I understand the N810 has somewhat better battery management than the N800 but not NEARLY as much as to account for such a disrepancy.

He's not the only one with dismal battery times on an n800.

sjgadsby

2009-08-29, 19:36

I got the "Internet Tablet" thing from The Register (http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/08/27/nokia_n900/).

Nokia made very clear a year ago that the "Internet Tablet" name ended with the N810/N810 WiMAX Edition. The Register, like a number of other online news sites, hasn't caught up with that yet.

benny1967

2009-08-29, 19:39

Nokia made very clear a year ago that the "Internet Tablet" name ended with the N810/N810 WiMAX Edition.

which, i fear, makes it very unlikely that we'll see any more hardware with maemo that could be used as a tablet/MID.

they mean what they say.

zerojay

2009-08-29, 21:18

which, i fear, makes it very unlikely that we'll see any more hardware with maemo that could be used as a tablet/MID.

they mean what they say.

How would you not be able to use the N900 as a tablet/MID? That's exactly what I'm planning on doing.

GeneralAntilles

2009-08-29, 21:31

Mobile phones are usually quoted with talk-time and standby-time. These two, at least, are conspicuously lacking for the N900. I surmise, therefore, that they are embarrassingly low.

From the data sheet :rolleyes::

Battery Times:

Always online: Up to 2-4 days (TCP/IP connected)
Talk time: Up to 5hrs WCDMA, 9hrs GSM
Active online usage: Up to 1+ day
personal email accounts

ralphb

2009-08-30, 03:00

From the data sheet :rolleyes::
What "data sheet"? Link please.

Why is this information not in the "techhnical specifications (http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/specifications/)"?

GeneralAntilles

2009-08-30, 04:26

What "data sheet"? Link please.

Can't handily dig up the Nokia link, so here's a blog mirror (http://tamss60.tamoggemon.com/contents/2009/August/than900released/Nokia_N900_data_sheet.pdf).

Why is this information not in the "techhnical specifications (http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/specifications/)"?

Quite possibly because the software hasn't been finalized and those figures may change, or else the marketing people are fail (as usual). Or both.

vvaz

2009-08-30, 07:34

While 'internet tablet' name is gone maemo.nokia.org is promoting 'mobile computer' phrase. It is possible to release 'mobile computer' without GSM module.

Some rumors mention second maemo 5 device in Q1 2010. Now we can only guess if it will be even more top-of-the-line thing like mocked up e900 or desired by many 'upgrade for n800'. I find latter unlikely (unfortunately) but it is possible and not totally against current positioning of maemo on the market.

vvaz

2009-08-30, 07:53

More loud thinking:

IMO second rumored device will be a phone. But not all hope is lost! It was confirmed (afair Peter@maemo himself wrote it so it is quite official) that Nokia will create something called 'Maemo Devices'. You don't create separate entity for one line of products.

Also one of the things which supposedly hurt IT in the past was brand Nokia with lack of phone possibilities. M100 by Maemo Devices should't be hurt by such association.

My dream: in Q1 we will see two devices based on maemo 5. One will be upgraded somehow n900. Second first product of new company, 'old school' internet tablet - maybe slightly bigger than oldies.

ntarki

2009-08-30, 08:00

Why they put 3 line keyboards? When you try to press 1 button you end up pressing 2-4....

What i would instant buy this device is:

1) A good 8MP camera.
2) Not resistive screen
3) A version without the keyboard, full touch :cool:

lardman

2009-08-30, 08:29

1) A good 8MP camera.

5/8MP who cares, it's down to the optics mainly.

2) Not resistive screen
3) A version without the keyboard, full touch

There's already another device out there for you then ;)

benny1967

2009-08-30, 08:39

How would you not be able to use the N900 as a tablet/MID? That's exactly what I'm planning on doing.

Maybe our definition of a MID isn't the same then.
What I mean when I say MID is a device that will run everything that runs on my desktop - as long as memory/CPU-requirement don't prevent it.

While the N900 has more horsepower and might be able to run resource-hungry applications in theory, I cannot imagine Abiword/Gnumeric/Xchat/... on a 3.5"-screen with those giant Maemo5-UI-elements. (See how the Xchat preferences screen already is too big for the N8x0. No way it would be useable without major rework on a smaller device.)

Also I expect a MID to be a perfect video playback device. On the N8x0, subtitles in DVDs are barely readable, even if the film plays fullscreen and is cropped to 15:9. I'm almost certain they're imposssible to read on the N900.

After 3 years with all internet tablets Nokia produced so far, I know they are almost perfect for my needs, only a little bit too small. Making them even smaller isn't going to help.

ntarki

2009-08-30, 08:44

There's already another device out there for you then ;)

Which you mean?

qwerty12

2009-08-30, 08:47

Which you mean?

iPhone? (http://www.apple.com/uk/iphone/)

It meets the lame capacitive touchscreen requirement...
Oh, and of course, the no keyboard requirement. With the amount of buttons on it, you could say it manages that one very well...

ntarki

2009-08-30, 08:57

I would like at least 5MP camera. Multitasking.

Plus i hate apple. :) I prefer Omnia HD better than iPhone even if it's not exactly HD

ralphb

2009-09-01, 06:38

Can't handily dig up the Nokia link, so here's a blog mirror (http://tamss60.tamoggemon.com/contents/2009/August/than900released/Nokia_N900_data_sheet.pdf).

Here's a link to the real datasheet (http://www.nokia.com/NOKIA_COM_1/Press/Materials/White_Papers/pdf_files/data_sheets_2009/Nokia_N900_data_sheet.pdf).

The operating time info there reads:
Always online: Up to 2-4 days (TCP/IP connected)
Talk time: Up to 5hrs WCDMA, 9hrs GSM
Active online usage: Up to 1+ day

(Which, I think is, pretty much what you said.)