View Full Version : Nokia N900's Flash 9.4 announcement... and why it bothers me.
I admit. One of the biggest reasons I bought a N810 was because of its Adobe Flash support up to Flash Player 9. Which was quickly replaced with the recently released Flash Player 10 which has cool 3D effects et al.
But the announcement of the upcoming N900 having "Flash 9.4 support" has bothered the living hell out of me. It's not 10.x, and it's a very small step above the 9.0 that's already on the N810/N800... which is honestly only version 9.0.124 from my understanding and not the existing 9.0.48 that we already have.
And in this part, I could be wrong. But all information gathered from the internet points me to be right.
Even that isn't enough though. Some things that come from Flash Media Server still isn't supported at this level... namely the H.264 and AAC (streaming media) portions.
Why not support it all the way up to 10.0.32?
Is this Adobe or Nokia... or both not wanting to support the newest version on the Maemo platform? Does the upcoming Open Screen Project mean it'll update to 10.x at a future date?
As it stands, this is a huge hindrance for me. Anybody know anything more?
jsmanrique
2009-08-30, 10:54
Sincerely, I don't mind the Flash support on this device and 9.4 seems huge for me. Perhaps I would prefer Flash Lite support since it seems more suitable for this kind of device (a mobile computer).
And as far as I know, the rivals don't support Flash at all!
I could find Flash useful for for some environments, but for web content, I hope/wish web developers take into account accessibility (http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/) and mobile web content (http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-mobile-bp-20080729/) guidelines...
Flash Lite doesn't support AS3 yet. That's a major problem for me since I don't develop for mobile platforms - and having limited AS support bothers me since I'm in Adobe Flex, which means AS3 only mostly.
Having the full-blown Flash plugin is a boon to the Maemo 4 (Chinook/Diablo) platform, and seeing such a baby step in Maemo 5, bothers me.
The rivals in this case would be Android... and it supports Flash Player 10 - such as the HTC Hero and continuing forward.
Now accessibility and 508 compliance... you truly wouldn't use Flash - it's possible but lord it's a pain.
attila77
2009-08-30, 11:14
The rivals in this case would be Android... and it supports Flash Player 10 - such as the HTC Hero and continuing forward.
Flash 10 on HTC Hero ? Care to provide a link ?
Milhouse
2009-08-30, 11:15
According to the following press release from November 2008, Flash 10 on ARM (ARMv6 and ARMv7architectures used in the ARM11 family and the Cortex-A series of processors) is expected to be available in the second half of 2009.
http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200811/111708ARMAdobeFlash.html
Chances are it was too late for integration and testing with Maemo 5/Fremantle, or it wasn't sufficiently stable to be considered for Maemo 5 and could have significantly marred the Maemo 5 experience, so was dropped in favour of Flash 9.
Finally, according to the following press release from April 2009, a pre-release of Flash 10 should have become available in the summer optimised for OMAP, with a view to production release in Q1 2010 and rolled out to devices in H2 2010.
http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200904/040109AdobeTIOMAP.html
Obviously Nokia wouldn't want to risk a pre-release Flash 10 on Maemo 5/Fremantle, or it arrived too late to integrate into Fremantle, or both.
I suspect there's a good chance Flash 10 will arrive as an SSU (non-optimized first, followed by OMAP optimized) sometime late in 2009, with more updates later in 2010. The OMAP optimized Flash 10 should be available for Harmattan.
zehjotkah
2009-08-30, 11:20
thanks Milhouse
Milhouse
2009-08-30, 11:24
Flash 10 on HTC Hero ? Care to provide a link ?
Adobe Press Release (June 24 2009) announcing Flash on HTC Hero:
http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200906/062409AdobeandHTCBringFlashPlatformtoAndroid.html
---EDIT---
What I find confusing about the above PR is that it doesn't specifically say that Flash 10 is on the shipping devices, only that Flash is on the device and that
“The collaboration with HTC offers people a more complete Flash based Web browsing experience today and presents an important step towards full Web browsing with Flash Player 10 on mobile phones in the future.” (my emphasis)
so I don't think this is Flash 10 on the HTC Hero, but some sort of 9/10 hybrid variant. In fact, this video (http://www.adobe.com/devnet/devices/articles/htchero.html) made by an Adobe Flash developer pretty much spells it out - it's not the full Flash Player 10, just something that satisfies 80% of the content on the web (which is better than zero percent as was the case previously on Android).
---END EDIT---
I suspect it was all down to timing with the ARM build of Flash 10 (non-optimized version) either arriving too late for Fremantle or it wasn't good enough (not stable enough) and Flash 9 was the safer bet.
Flash 10 will come... when it's ready. :)
BatPenguin
2009-08-30, 11:45
Adobe Press Release (June 24 2009) announcing Flash on HTC Hero:
http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200906/062409AdobeandHTCBringFlashPlatformtoAndroid.html
---EDIT---
What I find confusing about the above PR is that it doesn't specifically say that Flash 10 is on the shipping devices, only that Flash is on the device and that
so I don't think this is Flash 10 on the HTC Hero, but some sort of 9/10 hybrid variant. In fact, this video (http://www.adobe.com/devnet/devices/articles/htchero.html) made by an Adobe Flash developer pretty much spells it out - it's not the full Flash Player 10, just something that satisfies 80% of the content on the web (which is better than zero percent as was the case previously on Android).
---END EDIT---
I suspect it was all down to timing with the ARM build of Flash 10 (non-optimized version) either arriving too late for Fremantle or it wasn't good enough (not stable enough) and Flash 9 was the safer bet.
Flash 10 will come... when it's ready. :)
I actually have the HTC Hero right here (great phone, by the way), and I've been wondering about the flash too. What I'd really like to get going is Facebook's Scrabble app, which requires Flash 10 as far as I know, and that doesn't work. So it clearly is not full Flash 10. If somebody can name a few pages that don't work on the N810 due to flash, I'd be happy to test them here...if somebody's interested.
Bottom line: I was kind of disappointed with the N810's flash and I'm disappointed with the HTC Hero's flash too. But in all seriousness, I don't use a lot of flash pages...I just wanna play Scrabble =)
you have an HTC Hero?
http://flashplayerversion.com - I'm curious as to your version of the FP on that device.
Milhouse, I've suspected the same, it was more hybrid - the 3D portions will be left out as will bitmapcache and other niceties but yet to fully confirm.
allnameswereout
2009-08-30, 12:03
If support is not performance related I wouldn't be worried:
HTC Participates in Open Screen Project
HTC also announced its participation in the Open Screen Project, a broad industry effort to deliver a consistent runtime across screens and to provide access to all Flash technology based Web content in the future. As a contributor to the initiative, HTC is collaborating with Adobe and more than 25 other industry leaders to bring Flash Player 10 and full Web browsing to the next generation of Android based smartphones and other mobile computing platforms and devices. For more details on the Open Screen Project, visit www.openscreenproject.org.
Nokia is sponsor of Open Screen Project. (http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200902/021609AdobeNokia.html)
BatPenguin
2009-08-30, 12:04
you have an HTC Hero?
http://flashplayerversion.com - I'm curious as to your version of the FP on that device.
Yep, got it this week, my old Nokia E70 served me well but was starting to behave pretty erratically. And I needed a new toy :) Anyway, nice phone, the google calendar and gmail etc. integration is very nice and it sure is pretty. I'm very interested in the N900 and future Maemo devices of course too, but I'm thinking I just might skip the N900 and see how the Maemo devices coming out next year are. We'll see.
Anyway, about flash - that page loads up and says:
AFL 9,1,122,0
Debugger version? No
So sounds like Flash 9 to me. I wonder what this Flash 10 hype about the Hero is about since the version clearly says 9...strange.
My understanding was that they wanted to release Flash 10 on the device at launch, but didn't manage to get it working in time. I.e. they are working on it atm, and therefore it will become available at some point in the not too distant future.
JayOnThaBeat
2009-08-30, 18:42
As it stands, this is a huge hindrance for me. Anybody know anything more?
This is the last I've heard:
Nokia has licensed sourcecode for Adobe Flash Player, and I don't have full details on the implementation... hard for me to talk specific details yet, sorry.
But I do know that many content sites check for H.264 support, which arrived on the desktop in Adobe Flash Player 9.0.115.0 in December of last year. Some sites today specifically use Player 10 features, and some always check for the current versions as a security nudge... it's hard to generalize about sites' various detection schemes.
But, as before, we're in the final months of an architecture change... Player 10 is moving beyond laptops to mobile and home systems. First results should be at the end of the year, with production ramping up next year. This generation features over-the-air updating, as well as intrinsic cross-device support, so things should be simpler than they are today.
Best word on what the N900 can do would come from Nokia themselves, but I know that general progress is being made in this area, if that's of help.
jd/adobe
Anyway, about flash - that page loads up and says:
AFL 9,1,122,0
Debugger version? No
So sounds like Flash 9 to me. I wonder what this Flash 10 hype about the Hero is about since the version clearly says 9...strange.
Read this (http://blog.digitalbackcountry.com/2009/06/htc-hero-is-the-first-android-phone-with-flash-support/)... and now I'm scratching my head.
It's supposed to be 10.x, but I'm starting wonder if they're calling 9.1.x "FP10" when honestly it's supporting mostly H.264 and other things that came with Flash Media Server 3 et al.
This thread should really be in General so I could thank all the helpful posts...
Milhouse
2009-08-31, 00:44
Read this (http://blog.digitalbackcountry.com/2009/06/htc-hero-is-the-first-android-phone-with-flash-support/)... and now I'm scratching my head.
It's supposed to be 10.x, but I'm starting wonder if they're calling 9.1.x "FP10" when honestly it's supporting mostly H.264 and other things that came with Flash Media Server 3 et al.
You have to read the Adobe/HTC Press Release (http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200906/062409AdobeandHTCBringFlashPlatformtoAndroid.html) very carefully to realise that it's not Flash 10 that has been released on the HTC Hero - it's a version of Flash (the exact version is never mentioned) that will play 80% of Flash content already "out there", and the version number provided by BatPenguin confirms it is a build based on Flash Player 9.
The Press Release avoids declaring the specific version of Flash being announced (I'm sure they were intentionally ambiguous for maximum impact) and then states (eventually) that Flash 10 is to be delivered "in the future".
Do you have any authoritative sources where it is stated that Flash 10 is now available for the HTC Hero (ie. from HTC themselves, or Adobe?) The blog post you have linked to is a re-hash of the Adobe/HTC Press Release but to it's credit the blog post does not make the mistake of stating that Flash 10 is now shipping on the Hero.
This thread should really be in General so I could thank all the helpful posts...
And I just spent 20 seconds trying to find the Thanks link on this very post. *facepalm* ;)
I can confirm BatPenguin's post same version here...
Do you have any authoritative sources where it is stated that Flash 10 is now available for the HTC Hero (ie. from HTC themselves, or Adobe?) The blog post you have linked to is a re-hash of the Adobe/HTC Press Release but to it's credit the blog post does not make the mistake of stating that Flash 10 is now shipping on the Hero.
Ryan Stewart, that link I posted earlier works at Adobe on the Adobe Flex/Flash Builder (Flex 4) and Adobe Flash Catalyst teams.
So on first read, you'd think he was a person that would know.
This thread should really be in General so I could thank all the helpful posts...
I thought about posting it there, but I think I posted my prior Flash related stuff here - bad habit I guess.
This thread should really be in General so I could thank all the helpful posts...
It actually should be in the Maemo 5 forum. :)
I'll move it to the N900 section, as it is about the N900.
Or even to the Maemo 5/Fremantle section, as it is software rather than hw related. Cheers for the reminder Quim :)
Milhouse
2009-08-31, 08:45
Ryan Stewart, that link I posted earlier works at Adobe on the Adobe Flex/Flash Builder (Flex 4) and Adobe Flash Catalyst teams.
So on first read, you'd think he was a person that would know.
But he doesn't say the HTC Hero has Flash 10 - he's just repeated the press release, in which case I'm not sure why you're confused about what is on the Hero given the evidence.
Where has anyone said the HTC Hero is shipping with Flash Player 10, as then I could understand your confusion. So far both Adobe/HTC, Ryan and Adrian Ludwig (Adobe developer on Flash) in his video have all said it "has Flash" (which turns out to be Flash 9) and will have Flash 10 Player "in the future".
Anyway, the point is, I think, that Flash 10 Player is not yet available for any ARM device but will be later in the year, and will be even better in 2010...
But he doesn't say the HTC Hero has Flash 10 - he's just repeated the press release, in which case I'm not sure why you're confused about what is on the Hero given the evidence.
Where has anyone said the HTC Hero is shipping with Flash Player 10, as then I could understand your confusion. So far both Adobe/HTC and Ryan have said it "has Flash" (which turns out to be Flash 9) and will have Flash 10 Player "in the future".
One (http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/30/new-htc-hero-rom-leaked-flash-10-already-chugging-along-on-a-fe/)
Two (http://ready2beat.com/technology/mobile/new-htc-hero-will-be-built-flash-player-10)
Three (http://alanmusselman.com/blog/?p=383)
The semantics in play isn't that it will be delivered, it seemed as if it had been delivered.
But if you read Ryan's statements closely - which I had to go back and read his tweets about it, the confusion stops with this one statement "Once we get the runtimes out for Flash Player 10..."
Keyword: Once
The announcements of what is delivered and what will be delivered are a bit vague if you're speed reading.
Now with that said, the runtimes are forthcoming in the Open Screen Project yet unfortunately I wonder when will the Nokia product get it? Seems like HTC is first in line (as is Android) and despite Nokia being a funded portion of the Open Screen Project, there's no comment(s) on when that would happen.
There is a date for Android. Thus, my true confusion. 9.4 the end of the road, or will they inherit 10.x? And when?
Milhouse
2009-08-31, 10:24
One (http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/30/new-htc-hero-rom-leaked-flash-10-already-chugging-along-on-a-fe/)
Two (http://ready2beat.com/technology/mobile/new-htc-hero-will-be-built-flash-player-10)
Three (http://alanmusselman.com/blog/?p=383)
The semantics in play isn't that it will be delivered, it seemed as if it had been delivered.
But if you read Ryan's statements closely - which I had to go back and read his tweets about it, the confusion stops with this one statement "Once we get the runtimes out for Flash Player 10..."
Keyword: Once
The announcements of what is delivered and what will be delivered are a bit vague if you're speed reading.
Yes, this is the point I've been making - it hasn't shipped with FP10 yet, but will do. It's easy to misinterpret the press release by reading it too quickly and jumping to conclusions (as is the case with links one and most definitely three although link two does eventually spell it out correctly despite the tendentious title: it's Flash 9 now - still a first for Android - and Flash 10 next year)
Now with that said, the runtimes are forthcoming in the Open Screen Project yet unfortunately I wonder when will the Nokia product get it? Seems like HTC is first in line (as is Android) and despite Nokia being a funded portion of the Open Screen Project, there's no comment(s) on when that would happen.
There is a date for Android. Thus, my true confusion. 9.4 the end of the road, or will they inherit 10.x? And when?
The only confirmed dates are those I've already quoted from the Adobe press releases - ARM FP10 available to manufacturers in second half 2009 (and end users Q1 2010?), with optimised OMAP FP10 available to manufacturers in Q1 2010 with a likely release in H2 2010. No precise dates in relation to Android have been announced by any manufacturer or Google as far as I can tell, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
So coming back to the original issue raised by this thread, it's not Nokia or ARM or Adobe's fault that FP10 hasn't shipped with the N900 as FP10 is clearly still a work in progress and will come in it's own good time.
I don't know - or care - if Android will get it first, my guess is that the various competing manufacturers will all get an ARM build of FP10 around the same time and will release it according to their own schedules. No doubt there will be some kudos being the first with full FP10 but frankly I'd rather have it when it's ready, and the OMAP optimised version should be even better on the N900, so much so that I wouldn't object if Nokia decided to pass on the standard ARM build of FP10 waiting instead for the OMAP optimised version to be ready.
Yes, this is the point I've been making - it hasn't shipped with FP10 yet, but will do. It's easy to misinterpret the press release by reading it too quickly and jumping to conclusions (as is the case with links one and most definitely three although link two does eventually spell it out correctly despite the tendentious title: it's Flash 9 now - still a first for Android - and Flash 10 next year)
Exactly. So why announce the more confusing 9.4 when it's really 9.0.124 to the population? To me, as a Flex/Flash dev, it means a few things specifically to me, even moreso to me if I use Flash Media Server - I have to be updated in order to allow proper H.264 and AAC streaming, otherwise I lock out those devices much like Hulu has been doing - rather unnecessarily too I might add.
The only confirmed dates are those I've already quoted from the Adobe press releases - ARM FP10 available to manufacturers in second half 2009 (and end users Q1 2010?), with optimised OMAP FP10 available to manufacturers in Q1 2010 with a likely release in H2 2010. No precise dates in relation to Android have been announced by any manufacturer or Google as far as I can tell, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
This is where I have to go by my memory - which isn't as good as it used to be - but I swear either John Dowdell or somebody from Adobe pertaining the Open Screen Project had stated that it was coming with FP10 in October...
However, I did find this article by John Dowdell (http://blogs.adobe.com/jd/2009/06/schedules_of_open_screen_proje.html) and it further clarifies...
Adobe expects to provide a developer preview version of this engine at the MAX conference in October.
The preview for Android is coming in October. And from you've stated, it seems like Adobe's bringing the FP10 to the ARM platform in 2010. That's a bit more solid than the nebulous 9.4 announcement in those Maemo 5 vids.
So coming back to the original issue raised by this thread, it's not Nokia or ARM or Adobe's fault that FP10 hasn't shipped with the N900 as FP10 is clearly still a work in progress and will come in it's own good time.
Actually, I don't think this was the original issue. It was more about why announce 9.4 when it's merely a point jump from the already existing install used in Maemo now.
It's not even really a significant one either. From 9.0.32 to 9.0.124 or so is rather small in the realm of Flash. Both do support flv, AS3 and streaming media. The latter does support (better) AAC and H.264 and a few security updates - that really affected the Mac/Win side, but not Linux from my understanding (I don't mind admitting being wrong here) - but it's rather minor when desktop has upgraded past 10.0.32 right now.
That was the original concern. From my stand point, as a dev... it's still not far along enough for me to say that everything I do in Flex 3 w/ the 3.4 SDK and Flash Media Server 3.0 (not upgraded) will work. And the moment I make the jump to Flash Builder 4 (Flex 4) it won't work at all if I use any 3D outside of Papervision3D - which is strict AS3 anyway, but not reliant on the 3D capabilities of FP10 exclusively.
Which leads to the final concern... will it mean that the flash player will finally be update-able?
Those are the points of my confusion. I can't output to 9.4, it's either 9.0 or 10.0. But I have to be mindful of what code I use in my projects to avoid locking out people that might be using certain technology or levels of the flash player. And not knowing when or if they might be able to update, does affect me.
I can't carry my N810 to show off some sites already. Looking like I will be in the same boat until 2010 for the N900 if I choose it.
I hope that makes more sense. The concerns were there in the beginning.
Just badly spelled out.
Hey, this got moved. Anyway, I meant 9.0.48, not 9.0.32. 10.0.32.18 is my current debugger version... oops.
Milhouse
2009-08-31, 11:28
Actually, I don't think this was the original issue. It was more about why announce 9.4 when it's merely a point jump from the already existing install used in Maemo now.
But why not announce 9.4? 10 isn't available, so Nokia went with the latest working version of 9 - sounds sensible to me, but perhaps they didn't understand or appreciate the incompatabilities with h.264 (or considered it an insignificant problem?) It may only be an incremental update on the version shipped with Diablo, but that was from almost 2 years ago (there may have been an incremental Flash Player update released during Diablo, but not 100% sure).
Which leads to the final concern... will it mean that the flash player will finally be update-able?
There is no technical reason why it can't be updated - the only reason it won't be updated is due to corporate politics and potential licence fees (the same reasons given for not updating Flash on the 770).
Those are the points of my confusion. I can't output to 9.4, it's either 9.0 or 10.0. But I have to be mindful of what code I use in my projects to avoid locking out people that might be using certain technology or levels of the flash player. And not knowing when or if they might be able to update, does affect me.
I can't carry my N810 to show off some sites already. Looking like I will be in the same boat until 2010 for the N900 if I choose it.
I hope that makes more sense. The concerns were there in the beginning.
Just badly spelled out.
Maybe someone from Nokia can give you assurances that FP10 will ship as an update for Fremantle once it is ready? Once the competing devices have FP10 I would expect it to turn up fairly soon after on the N900.
attila77
2009-08-31, 11:41
Actually saying it's 9.4 upfront is far more honest than the flash 10 spin on the Hero. I would have liked 10 better (I even brought that up is the specs thread), but hey. Where's that Adobe guy who was telling how Flash is supercool and better than HTML5 exactly because of the level of corporate support it's able to provide and that all flash version problems will go away with the OSP...
Rest assured that nobody is holding a better version of Flash somehow back in our internal dungeons. :) Flash support is definitely a very cool thing and we want to provide a good experience with it. As the Hero example shows, Flash 10 is not fully there yet for mobile devices. The rest is semantics. "Once" it is done, then it is done.
But why not announce 9.4? 10 isn't available, so Nokia went with the latest working version of 9 - sounds sensible to me, but perhaps they didn't understand or appreciate the incompatabilities with h.264 (or considered it an insignificant problem?) It may only be an incremental update on the version shipped with Diablo, but that was from almost 2 years ago (there may have been an incremental Flash Player update released during Diablo, but not 100% sure).
Because it doesn't really mean much. 9.4 means as much as the version that's in Maemo 4 truth be told.
If anything, it's a very empty announcement. That's why it shouldn't have announced. No 3D, no FP10 advancements... it gained nothing worth mentioning.
There is no technical reason why it can't be updated - the only reason it won't be updated is due to corporate politics and potential licence fees (the same reasons given for not updating Flash on the 770).
I seriously don't get what you're saying here. You and I both know that there's no technical reason why it cannot be updated.
Historically, it hasn't. That's the question... will it? Or won't it?
Only Nokia and Adobe can answer that... in 2010.
Maybe someone from Nokia can give you assurances that FP10 will ship as an update for Fremantle once it is ready? Once the competing devices have FP10 I would expect it to turn up fairly soon after on the N900.
Would love to hear that. Doubt I'll get a confirmation.
attila77
2009-08-31, 13:05
If anything, it's a very empty announcement. That's why it shouldn't have announced. No 3D, no FP10 advancements... it gained nothing worth mentioning.
I just don't get it. Why on Earth should they *not* announce that they have a major web feature only a handful (how many except the Hero ?) devices can barely match, and none actually significantly surpass ? I mean if someone made an empty (misleading even) announcement, that's HTC/Adobe, talking about flash 10 future to hype a flash 9 device and platform.
Milhouse
2009-08-31, 13:07
If anything, it's a very empty announcement. That's why it shouldn't have announced. No 3D, no FP10 advancements... it gained nothing worth mentioning.
9.0.124 fixed a very serious zero-day security vulnerability present in previous versions of Flash Player. Unfortunately 9.0.124 broke h.264/AAC streaming from Adobe servers using specific protocols.
Which would I rather not have, hmmm... h.264/AAC streaming from some servers to my mobile device, or device Pwnage? Yeah, the ability to stream a few videos that may not actually be playable is really worth having my device compromised. :)
I seriously don't get what you're saying here. You and I both know that there's no technical reason why it cannot be updated.
Historically, it hasn't. That's the question... will it? Or won't it?
Only Nokia and Adobe can answer that... in 2010.
Would love to hear that. Doubt I'll get a confirmation.
See post from ragnar, you've got your confirmation.
ColdFusion
2009-08-31, 13:10
Is facebook video going to work with Flash 9.4?
9.0.124 fixed a very serious zero-day security vulnerability present in previous versions of Flash Player. Unfortunately 9.0.124 broke h.264/AAC streaming from Adobe servers using specific protocols.
I think I've already stated the security and h.264/aac streaming from Adobe Flash Media Server some 4 or 5 times already. Go back, quote that for once please.
Which would I rather not have, hmmm... h.264/AAC streaming from some servers to my mobile device, or device Pwnage? Yeah, the ability to stream a few videos that may not actually be playable is really worth having my device compromised.
9.0.124 is still vulnerable (http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/25260). As was 9.0.48.
That's why I want higher.
sjgadsby
2009-08-31, 13:41
9.4 means as much as the version that's in Maemo 4 truth be told.
If anything, it's a very empty announcement.
It lets folks who haven't followed, or even heard of, Maemo previously know that Maemo 5 has a Flash plug-in. You, and other Flash developers, weren't the primary target audience of the announcement.
I just don't get it. Why on Earth should they *not* announce that they have a major web feature only a handful (how many except the Hero ?) devices can barely match, and none actually significantly surpass ? I mean if someone made an empty (misleading even) announcement, that's HTC/Adobe, talking about flash 10 future to hype a flash 9 device and platform.
Because it's truly not a major web feature or announcement. I can't be more clearer than that.
The HTC/Adobe announcements - at the press release level - isn't really misleading... if anything, my reading was faulty.
However 9.0.124... that's a non-event.
Milhouse
2009-08-31, 13:53
9.0.124 is still vulnerable (http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/25260). As was 9.0.48.
That's why I want higher.
The vuln you link to above is fixed in... FP10. Hang on, I think there's a post or two around here some place which details when that version will become available. :)
All software has bugs, not all those bugs are fixed in shipping products. Nokia chose to go with 9.0.124, for whatever reason, just deal with it. Perhaps Nokia could have gone with a later version of FP9/9.4, but maybe they had more important things to get working first. The vast majority of buyers won't care less about the lack of FP10, they'll be more than happy with FP9.x.
FP10 will become available once it is ready...
I don't quite think you understood what I linked too... there's a vulnerability in the N900 version of Flash Player 9.0.124 and the N810's 9.0.48.
Here's another that affects not only the forthcoming 9.0.124 but also versions of 10.x - read here (http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/35905)
Anyway, those reasons and many more are why I wanted FP10 sooner than later. 9.0.124 won't stop your N900 from getting "device pwned".
This whole Flash 9.4 announcement = 9.0.124 - read here (http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/403/kb403400.html). And it ain't so safe after all.
attila77
2009-08-31, 14:49
Because it's truly not a major web feature or announcement. I can't be more clearer than that.
Let's just say I disagree calling full flash (even if only 9.4) on a MID/phone NOT a major feature.
The HTC/Adobe announcements - at the press release level - isn't really misleading... if anything, my reading was faulty.
Don't you sense the contradiction there ? It *WAS* formulated in a way so as to be easily misread. That's the very definition of misleading. Correct, but leads to wrong conclusion.
Let's just say I disagree calling full flash (even if only 9.4) on a MID/phone NOT a major feature.
Okay, for semantics sake... it's not a major upgrade from the N810. That's what I've been saying this entire time. It's not a major upgrade, just a point upgrade that doesn't really avoid a lot of pitfalls that I'd have to target my code to avoid.
Don't you sense the contradiction there ? It *WAS* formulated in a way so as to be easily misread. That's the very definition of misleading. Correct, but leads to wrong conclusion.
That was me actually owning up to adding to the confusion. Yeah, it (press release and headlines) was worded... vaguely and pretty badly. That's why you should have seen my face when the 9.1.xxx.xxx number came back from the HTC Hero owner.
That... was shocking. Sorta put a weird damper on what I had taken at face value as 10.x was released, or would be released for the HTC Hero.
Now, I'm waiting... but it'll be worth it.
You have to read the Adobe/HTC Press Release (http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200906/062409AdobeandHTCBringFlashPlatformtoAndroid.html) very carefully to realise that it's not Flash 10 that has been released on the HTC Hero - it's a version of Flash (the exact version is never mentioned) that will play 80% of Flash content already "out there", and the version number provided by BatPenguin confirms it is a build based on Flash Player 9.
The Press Release avoids declaring the specific version of Flash being announced (I'm sure they were intentionally ambiguous for maximum impact) and then states (eventually) that Flash 10 is to be delivered "in the future".
Do you have any authoritative sources where it is stated that Flash 10 is now available for the HTC Hero (ie. from HTC themselves, or Adobe?) The blog post you have linked to is a re-hash of the Adobe/HTC Press Release but to it's credit the blog post does not make the mistake of stating that Flash 10 is now shipping on the Hero.
I've got a Hero and let me tell you Flash (it's 9.1 btw) on it is almost usless, most of the time it doesn't even load.
Nothing quite like a gray box with a cross through it :rolleyes:
okay what do you think about the flash in this video, the browser are really lagging and he only have one browser open. in the second half he open youtube site (2 browser with flash now open) and it also lagging bad... is this because of the flash ? or the device ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHa3AoNdglY&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fmaemotalk.com%2F2009%2F09%2F03%2 Fnokia-n900-videos-and-first-look%2F&feature=player_embedded
@Ovek: But the Hero doesn't have Cortex A8 cpu on it though..
ossipena
2009-09-04, 06:32
Only Nokia and Adobe can answer that... in 2010.
which part from the adobes statement that flash 10 will be ready for arm devices in 2010 you didn't understand?
correct me if i was wrong but I've lived in a belief that the problem is with adobe and their delay of releases x86 vs arm.
ossipena
2009-09-04, 06:34
okay what do you think about the flash in this video, the browser are really lagging and he only have one browser open. in the second half he open youtube site (2 browser with flash now open) and it also lagging bad... is this because of the flash ? or the device ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHa3AoNdglY&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fmaemotalk.com%2F2009%2F09%2F03%2 Fnokia-n900-videos-and-first-look%2F&feature=player_embedded
come on. it's a pocketable device. windows xp has multitasking also but i can't run intensive superpi and youtube simultaneous without it affecting to both applications..
which part from the adobes statement that flash 10 will be ready for arm devices in 2010 you didn't understand?
correct me if i was wrong but I've lived in a belief that the problem is with adobe and their delay of releases x86 vs arm.
I guess it's the part where the preview release will be shown next month... or the prior, already hashed out ad nauseum potentially badly worded announcements.
janzeeschuimers
2009-10-05, 14:18
After reading the news about flash 10.1 , I had one question , what about the n900 and flash 10.1 ?
http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/05/flash-10-1-announced-for-just-about-anything-with-a-screen-webo/
I started a new thread [ here (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32437) ]
Apparently, the ARM and Nokia involvement means that the beta ARM version will be forthcoming in Q1 2010, the betas delivered at Adobe MAX will be for the mentioned ones.
I am not sure if it's been posted before but according to this forum.Nokia post (http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/alessandro-paces-forum-nokia-blog/2009/10/06/nokia-n900-running-flash-10.1-for-mobile) the Nokia N900 used to demonstrate Flash 10.1 on Adobe MAX 2009 event. So my guess is that we will see Flash 10.1 on the N900 sometime next year :)
Nokia N900 running Flash 10.1 for mobile
biskero | 06 October, 2009 12:29
During the Adobe MAX 2009 keynote, the Adobe CTO showed the Nokia N900 running Flash 10.1 for mobile in the browser.
Flash 10.1 is the new runtime from Adobe for mobile devices. This new runtime will be used by Nokia on other devices in the first half of 2010. Hopefully there will be a standalone version.
I am not sure if it's been posted before but according to this forum.Nokia post (http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/alessandro-paces-forum-nokia-blog/2009/10/06/nokia-n900-running-flash-10.1-for-mobile) the Nokia N900 used to demonstrate Flash 10.1 on Adobe MAX 2009 event. So my guess is that we will see Flash 10.1 on the N900 sometime next year :)
Yup... info was posted by gerbick yesterday in the thread he linked to in the post above yours...
It was confirmed and a link was provided (http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=340327&postcount=24) this morning some hours before the forum.Nokia post... :)
What bothers me about flash is that it's on the device by default. I do hope it is removable though. Don't want it don't need it.
Thesandlord
2009-10-07, 06:17
Well on the N810 you could just remove the .so file (I think that is what the plugin is called) and no more flash...
or flashblock...
qwerty12
2009-10-07, 06:18
What bothers me about flash is that it's on the device by default.
Hint: Nokia likes their devices to sell. Flash is a feature wanted by many.
Well as long as it's easy to remove(along with skype install icons and other such things) I have no serious problem with it in the end. And yes I accept that some seem to not be able to live without flash.
Though alternatives are there using things like canvas :)
http://glimr.rubyforge.org/cake/missile_fleet.html
http://glimr.rubyforge.org/cake/canvas.html
Alex Atkin UK
2009-10-07, 07:33
Well as long as it's easy to remove(along with skype install icons and other such things) I have no serious problem with it in the end. And yes I accept that some seem to not be able to live without flash.
Though alternatives are there using things like canvas :)
http://glimr.rubyforge.org/cake/missile_fleet.html
http://glimr.rubyforge.org/cake/canvas.html
Seems a poor example to me as I just tried the second URL on my Linux machine and its not all that smooth at all, and that is just moving the circle around the screen. FLASH on the other hand is a thousand times smoother than that doing a thousand more manipulations than that.
So yes there are alternatives, but are they as usable on lower spec machines? I doubt it. Bearing in mind my machine is a 3.2Ghz Core 2 Duo, so if that doesn't do it smooth I would not consider it a viable alternative to FLASH.
Fact is, FLASH brought fast vector animations to what was then pretty slow PCs. This makes it ideal for mobiles where they can run it on the GPU and do not have to rely on the web browser itself having accelerated graphics, which generally they do not (desktop as well as mobile) as far as I can tell.
Sure, if all web browsers suddenly had GPU accelerated vector support we probably could drop FLASH. But until then, FLASH is the only viable (though granted, overused/abused) solution.
Don't get me wrong, most FLASH sites are aweful. But if you are out and need to look at a site, only to find its FLASH so your mobile cannot view it, that sucks. If it wasn't for advertisers using so much FLASH, it wouldn't be a problem having it installed by default. You really should be able to choose if you want FLASH or static adverts without having to resort to things like flashblock.
The main security issue with Flash is that it's made by Adobe, isn't it?
Adobe has a crappy track record when it comes to security, and they're not known for their many software updates. From running a couple of (legally licenced) Adobe products, it's easy to see that they really, really don't like giving away free updates of any kind.
And since we're on Maemo, chances are many updates aren't going to reach us anyway. I don't think we'll ever have a vulnerability-free Flash version on Maemo. I don't think most people ever has one on their desktop.
"Of the targeted attacks so far this year, more than 47 percent exploit holes in Acrobat Reader, while six vulnerabilities have been discovered that target the program" - F-Secure Chief Research Officer Mikko Hypponen, April 2009.
"Report: Adobe Flash is 'biggest security hole' on the web" - MxLogic.com, quoting research from security firm Trusteer on almost 80 percent of internet users running unpatched versions.
If only Adobe was "more like Mozilla", pushing their security patches... Not to mentioning, patching their holes in the first place.
janzeeschuimers
2009-10-07, 16:05
Nokia N900 with Flash 10.1:
http://www.allaboutmaemo.com/news/item/10576_Flash_101_on_the_N900.php
Rushmore
2009-10-07, 16:30
Folks,
9.4 Flash on the N900 is basically a beta of 10.1 mobile. This means we are actually getting a full functioning Flash over a half year before everyone else.
Not bad :)
Nokia N900 with Flash 10.1:
http://www.allaboutmaemo.com/news/item/10576_Flash_101_on_the_N900.php
It was confirmed and a link was provided this yesterday morning some hours before the forum.Nokia post...
(...he said again to no one in particular)
the version seems to be 9.0.246.0 (with the current firmware), not that there is much difference from 9.0.124.0 (except a number of security fixes http://www.adobe.com/support/documentation/en/flashplayer/9/releasenotes.html#fixes_90246).
Hartti
Rushmore
2009-10-07, 16:45
Point is that 9.4 is the first mobile oriented full Flash. This version is the test ground for 10.1. Considering that 10.1 is about a half a year away for most, we will already have a preliminary full mobile version and then 10.1 when it is ready.
I was at Adobe MAX on Monday. 10.1 looks good, but there are still issues with getting it ready and out the door, many issues on the Adobe side. Adobe had some good figures about the improvements in file sizes for Flash on 10.1, so it will be nice when its actually available.
Can anyone able to update Flash 9.0.246.0 to version 10 on N900 yet?
-sam
Chapbass
2009-12-21, 03:27
Can anyone able to update Flash 9.0.246.0 to version 10 on N900 yet?
-sam
Samtng,
Flash player 10 isn't available on the n900 yet, it is coming in the (hopefully) early part of 2010. They have some videos of it at press conferences out on youtube and the like, but the code isnt out yet.
Talk about forum necromancy :O
maxximuscool
2009-12-21, 03:36
Yeah Flash 9.4 is good enough for the moment. Far better than any device out there. Usually people comparing it to iPhone 3GS lol, but i'll compare the maemo5 flash to Nokia N90->N97 series. Flashlite 3 suck badly. It can't even view most flash videos. Sometimes it work and sometimes it doesn't.
Flash 10 would perhaps give us access to Chatroulette.com (http://evert.meulie.net/2010/02/06/chatroulette-the-internet-hype-of-2010/) via our N900's.
Now wouldn't that be ultra-cool? :cool:
Deaconclgi
2010-03-04, 13:58
The current 9.4 flash is hardware accelerated. I hope we see a major improvement because the current hardware acceleration isnt doing a great job considering the potential of the SGX processor.
shadowjk
2010-03-04, 18:21
That's probably just hardware accelerate scaling through GLES or Xvideo. Hardware accelerated decode is what people want.
It is the end of 2010 and we still didn't see flash 10 on n900.
Looks like Nokia doesn't care...
For me the lack of proper hardware acceleration of flash video is the biggest disadvantage of this otherwise great device.
What offends me the most is that crappy flash videos are not a hardware issue, but an issue of Nokia bad management.
If Nokia has it working at demo level, why not just hand over the source code to the forum to test / fix it, I'm pretty sure people on here would if we had the tools to work with.
Scottlfa
2010-12-30, 02:48
So glad this device isn't a glorified java or flash engine. Yeah flash supports nice ... but flash isn't most of the net or media for that matter. Live with it people [so many QQ posts about flash]
As to Nokia, there after money first, brand loyalty second ... like all major brands. Apple, HTC etc aren't really concerned deeply about what you want just what they can get by putting in a device for you to upgrade. Same with the carriers. JMO.
sjgadsby
2010-12-30, 03:43
If Nokia has it working at demo level, why not just hand over the source code to the forum to test / fix it...
Adobe just might prohibit distributing the Flash Player source code in the licensing terms.
The current 9.4 flash is hardware accelerated. I hope we see a major improvement because the current hardware acceleration isnt doing a great job considering the potential of the SGX processor.
Man how do you get the "Adobe Flash Player Settings" on your N900? I don't seem to be able to get it... it's driving me nuts :)
You can get to the flash settings in much the same way you do on any other platform. Visit any site that has a flash element, poke your finger at it and hold it there for a few seconds, a menu will pop up with a bunch of entries, click on 'settings' and away you go.
:/ that does not work for me on MicroB and Firefox
demolition
2011-07-27, 18:12
It is unlikely that's possible to access the settings other than when it's running because it's closed source. All the same, you should try this:
Go to bbc iPlayer site and search for "Today" (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/search?q=Today).
Press the top item in the search results - should be most recent edition of the Today Programme (bbc speach-only radio breakfast prgramme). NB. I suggest radio not TV because iplayer TV is UK only. Both use flash.
Once page has loaded, before pressing the Play button, gently press and hold the stylus somewhere in the middle of the picture in the middle of the screen.
>> A small dialog box will appear with 3 clickable lines: the top line will be the iPlayer player version number, the middle is called "settings" and the bottom is a link to the adobe website.
Unfortunately, I can't do Ctrl+Shift+P to get a screenshot so unless someone has a camera to hand to take a photo of what Imm talking about - you'll just have to believe me. Below is the settings dialogue.
Although this is a modified flash player, I'm pretty sure the settings persist for whatever you're listening to/watching.
It might be that the site hosting your desired video clip has disabled access to the settings dialogue box - I don't know if this is possible though.
@c0rwyn: Why do you want to change the settings?
@Everyone While we're on the subject, I can't find much information about the N900 version of flash player.
- Does altering the cache size really make a difference; if so, in what circumstances is this noticeable. I can stream up to 400kbs mp4 h.264 (v & a combined) fine but any more (e.g. ~500kbps combined) and there are massive video-frame drops.
vBulletin® v3.8.8, Copyright ©2000-2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.