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n900_question
2009-09-04, 12:33
as many calling n900 tablet-hence it has desktop capabilities what kind of programs can i install on it that i can't on the n97 that will show me that it's really a pc like device thats better than the n97- for example *can i install an office on it- is there an office for linux and maemo
*and since i am using windows i am not familiar with linux so what pc applications if at all from linux desktop can be installed on the n900(since it's a mobile "pc")? prove to me that it's really a pc like device and not a simple smartphone that doesn't even support most of nokias' apps in ovi store since they are for symbian

zerojay
2009-09-04, 12:40
as many calling n900 tablet-hence it has desktop capabilities what kind of programs can i install on it that i can't on the n97 that will show me that it's really a pc like device thats better than the n97- for example *can i install an office on it- is there an office for linux and maemo
*and since i am using windows i am not familiar with linux so what pc applications if at all from linux desktop can be installed on the n900(since it's a mobile "pc")? prove to me that it's really a pc like device and not a simple smartphone that doesn't even support most of nokias' apps in ovi store since they are for symbian

We can prove it's like a PC because you can straight install all the Linux programs made for ARM processors. People even have found a way to run OpenOffice on the previous tablets. I don't see why it wouldn't run on the N900.

Jaffa
2009-09-04, 12:45
A flavour of the types of apps available for Maemo 4 is available on http://maemo.org/downloads/

There are spreadsheet apps (such as Gnumeric) and word processors (such as Abiword). Maemo 5 (as run on the N900) already has Documents-to-Go available to view Microsoft Office documents. There has been mention that they'll have a chargeable version which allows you to edit, but I've not seen it.

christexaport
2009-09-04, 13:57
The Maemo Garage is a major reason I hope all Maemo apps are published on the Ovi Store. That site is a train wreck for average consumers, but typical of the old Symbian guard's geek base. I think the Garage needs a redesign with more information and visual cues instead of all of the anonymous text that accompanies each "project", which should be called programs or apps instead. Just confusing for normobs.

christexaport
2009-09-04, 13:58
Or am I too critical?

range
2009-09-04, 14:00
The Maemo Garage is a major reason I hope all Maemo apps are published on the Ovi Store. That site is a train wreck for average consumers, but typical of the old Symbian guard's geek base. I think the Garage needs a redesign with more information and visual cues instead of all of the anonymous text that accompanies each "project", which should be called programs or apps instead. Just confusing for normobs.

The garage is like an incubator for programs, you normally do not use it for installing programs.

As a normal user you will not even need to visit garage.maemo.org - it is, after all, where applications are developed.

As a normal user you will install applications via the application manager, which in my opinion is superior to "app stores".

Maybe you want to take a look at maemo devices first before jumping to invalid assumptions?

qgil
2009-09-04, 14:01
Garage is not for end users. They should just look at http://maemo.org/downloads for community software

And to their Application Manager with Extras activated.

Garage is a collaboration infrastructure for developers and heavy contributors.

qgil
2009-09-04, 14:03
By the way, yesterday konttori told me that many Diablo binaries just install and work, even if they of course have still the Diablo look&feel.

ysss
2009-09-04, 14:04
I think the garage just need to have store fronts.

If a guest enters from the garage, then we can assume they are already familiar with what a project is. And the (pretty?) store front showcases the readily packaged deliverables for the masses.

Jaffa
2009-09-04, 14:13
I think the garage just need to have store fronts.

From your description, it sounds like this is met by garage projects being able to use a "www" directory to create a website (e.g. http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org/, http://qt4.garage.maemo.org/, http://mediabox.garage.maemo.org/)

Either way, the hideous UI of garage itself is for developers working on a project - no one else. Even the bug tracker is going to be deprecated in favour of bugzilla.

Jack6428
2009-09-04, 14:26
hey, im a noob with Maemo...discovered it only thanks to the N900...so forgive me.. but i know its based on Linux...so i wanted to ask.. theoretically is it possible that any game that came out for Linux could be ported or played on the N900? Within reason of the minimum system req. of course...

Namely im interested in wheter these games (which were ported to Linux) could be played on the N900:

Homeworld (SDL)
Quake III
Nexuiz
Vega Strike
Heretic II
Sim City 3000
X2: The Threat
Medal of Honor: Allied Assault

Thanks for the answers !

zerojay
2009-09-04, 14:33
hey, im a noob with Maemo...discovered it only thanks to the N900...so forgive me.. but i know its based on Linux...so i wanted to ask.. theoretically is it possible that any game that came out for Linux could be ported or played on the N900? Within reason of the minimum system req. of course...

Namely im interested in wheter these games (which were ported to Linux) could be played on the N900:

Homeworld (SDL)
Quake III
Nexuiz
Vega Strike
Heretic II
Sim City 3000
X2: The Threat
Medal of Honor: Allied Assault

Thanks for the answers !

As long as they are open source (or a commercial company is willing to port to it) and will work with OpenGL ES, it should. I don't know much about OpenGL ES though... so as much as I would love to see SimCity 3000 running on it, it most likely won't happen.

Remember, it's not just that they were ported to Linux... they have to have also been ported to ARM Linux, not X86 Linux.

geneven
2009-09-04, 14:47
This "garage isn't for regular users" is an example of the arrogant attitude I object to. Actually, I have found many interesting betas in garage that never make it to a regular status. I don't mind a few crashes if the program is fun or interesting. The terms "regular user" and "drooling idiot" are not synonyms.

attila77
2009-09-04, 15:32
This "garage isn't for regular users" is an example of the arrogant attitude I object to. Actually, I have found many interesting betas in garage that never make it to a regular status. I don't mind a few crashes if the program is fun or interesting. The terms "regular user" and "drooling idiot" are not synonyms.

And who gets to decide what's a users acceptable "don't mind" level ? Tomorrow you'll have someone here complaining that a package from garage messed up his install so bad he needed to reflash and lost his most precious data. Then what ? Maemo sucks ? The developer sucks ? Garage stuff IS for developers. It doesn't mean non-developers should not ever enter, but there is not a big enough font for the "caveat emptor" sign that should be there.

PS. And if you think a software in garage IS good enough for general use (e.g. ready for extras-promotion), let the developers know. They might be perfectionist by holding back a release, but they will certainly appreciate the feedback.

zerojay
2009-09-04, 17:02
This "garage isn't for regular users" is an example of the arrogant attitude I object to. Actually, I have found many interesting betas in garage that never make it to a regular status. I don't mind a few crashes if the program is fun or interesting. The terms "regular user" and "drooling idiot" are not synonyms.

There's no arrogant attitude around garage at all, so please.

jethro.itt
2009-09-04, 17:57
By the way, yesterday konttori told me that many Diablo binaries just install and work, even if they of course have still the Diablo look&feel.

That's good to know. Specifically, does anybody know if Password Safe works with Fremantle? I have tons of passwords in it and would hate to retype/convert them.

How about Truecrypt (with or without EasyCrypt)? It would require new kernel modules at the minimum. But FUSE is on Fremantle, right? Truecrypt 5 uses FUSE instead of kernel modules.

qgil
2009-09-04, 18:08
Password Safe is actually in Maemo 5 extras-testing, well positioned to be available in Extras already in Day 0.

JayOnThaBeat
2009-09-04, 18:08
This "garage isn't for regular users" is an example of the arrogant attitude I object to. Actually, I have found many interesting betas in garage that never make it to a regular status. I don't mind a few crashes if the program is fun or interesting. The terms "regular user" and "drooling idiot" are not synonyms.

There is a reason they don't let you in by the cars at (chain) auto repair places [garages].

If you don't know what you're doing, you could knock a car off the lift and onto your head.

I think the name is very appropriate.

christexaport
2009-09-04, 20:45
Sorry if I ruffled a few feathers, but this is my view, the view of an outsider with an advanced technical background, extensive Symbian experience, and new to the Linux and Maemo ecosystems. That will be the demographic of a majority of the new blood in this space, so my opinion should be of interest in this light. It is my wish to further the accessibility and user friendliness of the Maemo environment, both software and community wise, not criticize anyone.

Maemo is on a much larger stage now, and this is an advantage of everyone here. So ignore how my thoughts make you feel personally, and instead give worthy explanations for why things are and at the same time develop ways to intertwine the best of the old world with an idea towards improving the entire experience for accessibility for a first time computer user.

Maemo is poised to be that introduction to computing and web, and this is a wonderous vision to imagine. An N900 will be someone's FIRST COMPUTER EVER!! Can you imagine this? I'm excited for the implications of Maemo on our society going forward.

I've already learned that the Garage is NOT the app market some incorrect sources have implied to me in the past. As some have correctly pointed out, it is an INCUBATOR of sorts, where only developers and those interested in testing beta software at their own peril or joy can browse for solutions to interest them, or participate in the development of. That is totally cool, IMO.

I've also learned that apps expected to work on device considered finished software is available via the App Manager, a Maemo version of the Ovi Store, for lack of a better analogy.

What I'd like to know is how can I browse this software list online from a desktop or mobile browser? Is it possible? Or am I forced to buy a device to browse for available software? Is the Downloads page this list, or are there other places I can find Maemo 5 software?

These are questions MILLIONS of people will want to know in the coming months. I'm just asking ahead of time so I can let those interested in Maemo in my own community know themselves, so when they arrive here, they can immediately spend time getting involved in this community, instead of asking these obviously silly questions.

Excuse me for asking everything and giving an opinion, but its who I am, and can be an asset if you look at it. You'll appreciate it when all the Symbian Freaks get here. There are ALOT of US you'll be "inheriting", and we love mobiles.

fnordianslip
2009-09-04, 20:56
App Manager isn't really a store-like thing as such, it is a *user-friendly* GUI for the apt-get package manager. It lets you choose a package to install, figures out what dependencies that package has, and assuming they exist in the repositories you have enabled, installs (or un-installs) it all for you. The same thing can be done on the command line using apt-get.

The store is something new, and is an unfamiliar concept to us regular Linux users.

Reggie
2009-09-04, 21:00
Garage is not for end users. They should just look at http://maemo.org/downloads for community software

And to their Application Manager with Extras activated.

Garage is a collaboration infrastructure for developers and heavy contributors.

Chris, as what Quim has mentioned, as of now, there is http://maemo.org/downloads where you can browse on any browser, and then there is the Application Manager on the N900 where you can supposedly see the same apps there. The whole process is not yet refined but hopefully, it becomes better.

I don't know how the Ovi Store would fit in all these yet, but if it will make things easier for the end-user, I'm all up for it.

What I would like to still see is the ability to rate and comment on apps, directly from the N900.

christexaport
2009-09-04, 21:02
Well, the way you put it, its the Ovi Store on steroids, and that's amazing!! I'm sure Nokia will implement some of those features in the new OS, but you never know.

What I want to know is where could someone interested in new software for Maemo 5 or Maemo in general go to find it if they DON'T have a device?

christexaport
2009-09-04, 21:04
Just read your post, Reggie. Thanks. Is that the only place? Besides the Garage? Just making sure...

I really appreciate all the help.

Reggie
2009-09-04, 21:07
Just read your post, Reggie. Thanks. Is that the only place? Besides the Garage? Just making sure...

I really appreciate all the help.

There have been places where you can get apps and customized firmware before, but would not recommend them. It's still best to get them from the downloads page or direct from the device, since you get notified of updates automatically for the apps you have installed.

np.

epilido
2009-09-04, 21:13
http://maemo.org/downloads

What I want to know is where could someone interested in new software for Maemo 5 or Maemo in general go to find it if they DON'T have a device?


Chris as linked multiple times. You can look through the applications. I expect that there will be a maemo 5 link on that page that will be for the new programs. As the community doesn't have a device to test new ports on it is a little early to look for new programs. please look at the 2008 link for programs that will likely be quickly ported.

Epi

christexaport
2009-09-04, 21:45
gotcha! thanks guys

kenny
2009-09-05, 03:01
App Manager isn't really a store-like thing as such, it is a *user-friendly* GUI for the apt-get package manager. It lets you choose a package to install, figures out what dependencies that package has, and assuming they exist in the repositories you have enabled, installs (or un-installs) it all for you. The same thing can be done on the command line using apt-get.
.
Thank you for a concise and simple explanation.
I'm sure that you're aware that the vast majority of average device users don't really care how it works. They just want to see a widget, punch it, and get the app. And then they just want it to simply work.
I wonder if the N900 will be able to fulfill these expectations?

jandmdickerson
2009-09-05, 03:13
Thank you for a concise and simple explanation.
I'm sure that you're aware that the vast majority of average device users don't really care how it works. They just want to see a widget, punch it, and get the app. And then they just want it to simply work.
I wonder if the N900 will be able to fulfill these expectations?

Not me I want my device to read my mind and anticipate what applications I want and download them for me automatically.:p

fnordianslip
2009-09-05, 10:08
Thank you for a concise and simple explanation.
I'm sure that you're aware that the vast majority of average device users don't really care how it works. They just want to see a widget, punch it, and get the app. And then they just want it to simply work.
I wonder if the N900 will be able to fulfill these expectations?

I expect so, as that is how App Manager tends to work on the other Maemo devices, although there are options to expose more detail/control to the user if they want.

In the past, Maemo users have had to contend with additional, personal repositories in order to add 3rd party apps and ports of other regular Linux apps, (see http://www.gronmayer.com/it/index.php?lang=en&system=maemo4) but that nausea has mostly gone away now, with a concerted effort to put everything into the Maemo Extras repository. I don't suppose anyone will be using Gronmayer again. I know I've not been there for a long time.

Still, quite how all this (App Manager, Ovi Store and Maemo Select) all play together, I don't know, as the latter two are an unknown quantity to me. From my point of view, App Manager is the tool that lets me (un)install what I want, perhaps the other two are a way for new users to figure out what they want, and perhaps also a way to purchase commercial apps.