View Full Version : How serious is Nokia about making a dent in the US/Canadian Market?
Seriously, Peter/Quim (or any other Nokia'n that can answer it), how Serious is Nokia planning on going after the US/Canadian market with the N900? Or has management, decided Step 5(6,7?) is when they will finally go after the North American markets w/ Maemo?
We are "technically" supported -- yes, we can pre-order it now from Nokia; but it will only support the 4th largest US phone carrier. Which based on market share only has somewhere around 11% of the US market (& like no market in Canada). What happened to targeting the larger pie's. Either something like CDMA which has 60% of the NA market, or even adding another model with the missing GSM bands and supporting at a minimum at least 40% of the market? But going after a potential of 8% that is just plain stupid marketing.
Nokia World 2009 is over, and no North American carriers announced they were going to carry it. Hello, Mr McFly, anyone home?
I mean when when the Pre was announce we know a in advance it was going to Sprint (and within days we knew Verizon would have it). When the new Android, and Blackberry phones were announced we knew where they were going to be. I think we even knew where the original IPhone was going to end up. We even know their is a unreleased Palm scheduled for the AT&T market.
But Nokia's new Flagship phone, uhm, hello, what, no launch partners at all? Are you all Crazy, you won't even make a dent in the North American markets with this type of marketing and planning.
So, honestly -- is Nokia actually planning on "doing" anything this time around; or do you plan on letting the Iphone, Android and Palm-Pre eat your lunch in the North American market for another year?
You don't have to divulge any specific plans,and I would be very happy with with a simple HONEST answer.
"Yes we plan on attacking the US/Canadian markets shortly" (i.e. <= 6 months); or No, we have no plans to work the market in the near future. (i.e.any plans are > 6 months)
Please note, before the NW09 I had assumed Yes, and my posts conveyed that message -- I firmly believed Nokia had planned on finally "attacking" the NA market. But I have to say after NW09, and the clear lack of anything direction wise -- I am pretty disappointed and believe the answer is you won't be doing anything in the NA market again.
Nathan
romanianusa
2009-09-04, 22:57
That's what i been wondering. It's pretty obviously why iPhone is dominantly here and Nokia is NOT because Nokia phone is not being supported. So how are you going to dominate the market if your phone is not allowed in ANY of the carrier EVEN though your phone looks great and superior than the other product. I think Nokia don't like their phone being crippled and having a hard time making a deal with the carrier. Good for consumers if the phone is not crippled but bad for business on both side.
So my conclusion is Nokia phone will never be popular here even if they come out a phone as slick and as great as iphone simply because they are not being supported for some reason.
Nokia World 2009 is over, and no North American carriers announced they were going to carry it. Hello, Mr McFly, anyone home?
There's still plenty of time between now and release for press announcements including Maemo Summit so don't jump the gun yet.
So how are you going to dominate the market if your phone is not allowed in ANY of the carrier
It is allowed on TMobile, the only network that supports it fully. Technically afaik, you can also use it on AT&T @ edge speeds.
There's still plenty of time between now and release for press announcements including Maemo Summit so don't jump the gun yet.
Sorry, you lost me.... They officially announced it a couple days before NW09. They demo'd it and generated all sorts of good press for it at NW09. Quite a few Nokia stores had their pre-order links up before NW09 was done. We even know the estimated "shipping" date.
Maemo Summit is likely not going to be a "press" event; it is more a techie conference. Why would you expect they would pass "announcing" things at their Press event and announce them at the Maemo "tech" Summit? That would be pretty dang foolish. So I don't think I'm jumping the Gun. I want to know if they actually are planning on doing something or not.
Nathan
Architengi
2009-09-05, 02:26
Selling the phone at $700 unlocked is pretty bad business, compare this price with subsidezed phones like iPhone 3G only $99 and you will see why Nokia will loose market. No serious presence in USA means bad reviews or no reviews and no marketing because the most reviews come from USA and most of them are in English so USA dominates the world opinion.
It is allowed on TMobile, the only network that supports it fully. Technically afaik, you can also use it on AT&T @ edge speeds.
Sorry, you lost me.... They officially announced it a couple days before NW09. They demo'd it and generated all sorts of good press for it at NW09. Quite a few Nokia stores had their pre-order links up before NW09 was done. We even know the estimated "shipping" date.
Maemo Summit is likely not going to be a "press" event; it is more a techie conference. Why would you expect they would pass "announcing" things at their Press event and announce them at the Maemo "tech" Summit? That would be pretty dang foolish. So I don't think I'm jumping the Gun. I want to know if they actually are planning on doing something or not.
Nathan
Nathan, please reread what I wrote, specifically this part:
There's still plenty of time between now and release for press announcements
I never said press announcements would be MADE at Maemo Summit. We just know release is going to be right around then.
You mean like the Aug 27th one:
http://www.nokia.com/press/press-releases/showpressrelease?newsid=1337594
LOL, as I stated before -- NW09 they had all the peoples eyes they could want wanting and craving information. When they announced it they made a splash across a lot of sites. You want to make an announcement when you have people looking at you. Putting a Press release out sometime between now and Maemo Summit is pretty stupid when they could have put it out during NW09 and had a huge majority of the blogs parrot the info, giving it wide spread wings.
Think about it -- prior to NW09 we suspected TMO would have the device. If they said yes TMO will have the device starting Dec 1st, that would make people think twice about picking up a competitors device because that information would be spread across the NA sites and people would know "it is coming to TMO, soon". Right now, only some sites have mentioned you can order it from Nokia, and no one has a clue who will carry it (or even if a vendor will carry it), This is supposedly the Nokia Flagship device.
Apple, RIM, Palm all seem to realize that you give press material at press conferences along with the demo -- you want as much "sales" material and "desire" as you can get out out, so that people want it. I assume Nokia understands how it works.
Putting out a press release between now & Maemo Summit is rather pointless. Sure we here at maemo.org would pick it up right away; but the general public probably won't see it.
So no, I would not say I jumped the gun. I think the the answer is > 6 months, and I am hoping that I am wrong.
Nathan.
+1 for making a Canadian version
USA dominates the world opinion.
LOL
What about "no" Scotty?
Ok, i want this...NOW :P
But now I'm confused about bands allocation worldwide!
(...and Canada/Montreal)
From nokiausa: (of course nokia canada is a year behind! go figure...)
* Optimized for WCDMA 900/1700/2100
* Quad-band EGSM 850/900/1800/1900
* Optimized for 3G networks on WCDMA 900/1700/2100 Quad-band EGSM 850/900/1800/1900
So does that mean that phone will work anywhere for voice but then for data we're screwed?
From what i gather, our GSM monopoly (Rogers/Fido, yes you! hopefully videotron and others will popup soon...? on the "right" frequencies?) is able to speak on 850 and 1900 for 3G...
Is an international phone still able to roam in 3G on the 2100 band?
Or does that mean we're stuck with EDGE and while traveling around Canada and in the USA too?
And then abroad i guess I'd have to get a prepaid data plan for vacations from another carrier... Also, any idea how to get the phone to here (except bribing friends south :P) ?
Capt'n Corrupt
2009-09-05, 10:49
-1 for a canadian version. Canada's telecoms, CRTC, and/or Government need to get their collective acts together so that Canada can join 20th century telecommunications. Our prices are too high, and our services too limited.
}:^(~
Apple certainly followed through the iPhone's release with a bit more than just a press release. We'll just have to wait and see Nokia's release programme.
mistermix
2009-09-05, 13:28
The US is a tough nut to crack. Though I would love to have a highly-subsidized N900 on a top-end carrier, it appears that we may get a grudging launch on the distant fourth-place T-Mobile sometime in the future. I haven't seen all the reasons in one place, so I'll take a crack at it:
--The smartphone market is fragmented (CDMA/GSM) and has a very strong incumbent (iPhone) on the best GSM carrier. AT&T has its hands full selling iPhones. Even if the subsidized N900 price could match the iPhone 3G (and it looks like it won't), why should AT&T bother training staff and customer support to service a competitor to its strongest product? And where's Nokia's incentive to build a CDMA variant with LTE on the horizon? So, T-Mob is the only possible US market for the N900, and their weak 3G network and poor US coverage is a hindrance to adoption.
--US carriers are used to companies like RIM who will cripple devices to address carrier whim (e.g., GPS on Verizon Blackberries, which has been available for years and only uncrippled a few months ago, because Verizon wanted to make $10/month from subscribers to use their terrible GPS software.) Nokia has said that they aren't going to customize (read "cripple") the N900 for carriers, and Maemo makes it easy to circumvent any customization, so this device is a risk for carriers, who fear that their 3g nets will be swamped with customers streaming flash video.
--The N900 is a high-end device for people who are willing to master some complexity in return for a really impressive list of features. My guess is that a fair number of this relatively small target market (those who want the features and have the money) are already committed to another smartphone. Other smartphone manufacturers, like Apple and RIM, are focusing on a much larger market: those who fear the complexity of the phone but want simple features. Your mom does not want a N900, she wants an iPhone or Blackberry Pearl, and your mom is where the growth is in this market.
QueenShawtii
2009-09-05, 15:13
So because T-mobile is the 4th largest US telly carrier, T-mobile users shouldn't get any Nokia love? The last time a nokia smartphone that was compatible with T-mobile was the nokia 6600 in 2003! I think its time t-mobile users have an option that isn't on EDGE. Don't worry--Nokia isn't crazy they will not leave out At&t and everyone else that uses the 850 band, I'm sure the next maemo phone will be available to you guys and another nokia smartphone won't be compatible with T-mobile again for ANOTHER 6 years.
So because T-mobile is the 4th largest US telly carrier, T-mobile users shouldn't get any Nokia love? The last time a nokia smartphone that was compatible with T-mobile was the nokia 6600 in 2003! I think its time t-mobile users have an option that isn't on EDGE. Don't worry--Nokia isn't crazy they will not leave out At&t and everyone else that uses the 850 band, I'm sure the next maemo phone will be available to you guys and another nokia smartphone won't be compatible with T-mobile again for ANOTHER 6 years.
co-sign im tired of hearing about how horrible tmobile is everyone have different experiences.
Den in USA
2009-09-05, 15:33
co-sign im tired of hearing about how horrible tmobile is everyone have different experiences.
Everyone that I know who who had T-mobile had terrible reception problems. They actually had to walk out of their homes and down the street to make a call!
Crashdamage
2009-09-05, 15:57
Everyone that I know who who had T-mobile had terrible reception problems. They actually had to walk out of their homes and down the street to make a call!
Not where I'm at. T-Mo has the best voice coverage of all providers here. Veri$on has the largest 3G area, AT&T 2nd, Sprint 3rd, T-Mo 4th, but T-Mo's 3G area is now nearly as large as Sprint's and may soon surpass it. The various coverage maps are a kind of a joke, not very accurate at all.
T-Mo 3G is usually fast, no doubt partly due to the fact they have the newest 3G network equipment, all 3.5 service, no old 3.0 service like AT&T. I've used both T-Mo and Veri$on 3G extensively on the road (T-Mo for a G1, Veri$on for a laptop) and both are good, but Veri$on is really a pain to deal with. Had AT&T for a while on the laptop but it just was too slow and unreliable.
Sprint is the only one I really haven't had much experience with. But Kansas City is their World Headquarters, yet the service area is poorly covered. That's enough of a hint to me of their abilities.
QueenShawtii
2009-09-05, 15:58
T-mobile reception isn't bad in my city, its att that worse here.
The US is a tough nut to crack. Though I would love to have a highly-subsidized N900 on a top-end carrier, it appears that we may get a grudging launch on the distant fourth-place T-Mobile sometime in the future. I haven't seen all the reasons in one place, so I'll take a crack at it:
Oh, I don't disagree -- it is a tough nut to crack. You have blackberry which is entrenched in the business, iphone which is entrenched in well a lot of areas, and android in the geeks. Which goes back to my question, have they written off the market this time around or are they actually planning on fighting for it? This version of the phone really is targeting the Euro/Asia/African markets; TMO here does support the same freqs (since they are international) so they are releasing it here (hey why turn down free money); but this version of the phone is not really a NA phone.
--The smartphone market is fragmented (CDMA/GSM) and has a very strong incumbent (iPhone) on the best GSM carrier. AT&T has its hands full selling iPhones. Even if the subsidized N900 price could match the iPhone 3G (and it looks like it won't), why should AT&T bother training staff and customer support to service a competitor to its strongest product?
AT&T, they are getting a Palm & Andriod phones; they aren't going to sit by and let the possible "next" best thing go by even if it cuts into their iphone market, they want as many subscribers as they can get, not to sell phones. Otherwise they wouldn't be selling the high end Blackberry, Android or getting Palms if they were so "Worried" about the iphone market. Besides odds are very high that Verizon will have a iphone in 2010. Apple wants to sell the iphone, they would be foolish now that they are entrenched in the market not to target the other 60% of the market. The biggest reason is that Nokia probably didn't offer a "exclusive" for 6 months (or more) and AT&T isn't going to go "market" something they can't use to promote themselves.
And where's Nokia's incentive to build a CDMA variant with LTE on the horizon? So, T-Mob is the only possible US market for the N900, and their weak 3G network and poor US coverage is a hindrance to adoption.
A LTE phone probably should be in Step 5. LTE isn't here and really won't be for a (long) while, knowing how slow all the carriers are in the NA, I wouldn't be surprised by the time they have a N1200 phone we might have decent LTE coverage. As it is TMO doesn't even have good 3G coverage.
As for CDMA, with 60% of the NA market being CDMA, that alone should be the incentive to build a CDMA version. I can take a CDMA phone from Sprint to Verizon to US Cellular, to Bell Canada and it will work. So if I bought one from the Nokia Store, I could use it on any CDMA carrier in NA. Unlike GSM, CDMA afaik has the same freqs on all the carriers. So you only have to make 1 phone to hit over 60% of the market in the NA.
--US carriers are used to companies like RIM who will cripple devices to address carrier whim (e.g., GPS on Verizon Blackberries, which has been available for years and only uncrippled a few months ago, because Verizon wanted to make $10/month from subscribers to use their terrible GPS software.) Nokia has said that they aren't going to customize (read "cripple") the N900 for carriers, and Maemo makes it easy to circumvent any customization, so this device is a risk for carriers, who fear that their 3g nets will be swamped with customers streaming flash video.
I fully understand this -- and it wouldn't surprise me if this is why TMO hasn't come forward and said we have it. Their 3g network sucks and they don't want to have the same network growth issues at&t had, until they can build it -- I understand they are doing a build out of their 3g network but the timing isn't right for them. They don't want more bad press on how their network sucks. But, for Nokia; to change the game in NA they have to hit a majority of NA carriers not hit a carrier that isn't even going to carry it. Hence my question are they planning on sitting in NA or are they actually planning on trying to market it here.
The N900 is a high-end device for people who are willing to master some complexity in return for a really impressive list of features. My guess is that a fair number of this relatively small target market (those who want the features and have the money) are already committed to another smartphone. Other smartphone manufacturers, like Apple and RIM, are focusing on a much larger market: those who fear the complexity of the phone but want simple features. Your mom does not want a N900, she wants an iPhone or Blackberry Pearl, and your mom is where the growth is in this market.
I would totally disagree on this point. If the N900 is as simple as the videos I've seen; then my Mom (and your mom) should want it. Now I might want it because I can do a lot more with it then they could. But the ability the N900 brings to the normal user and business user is pretty high and really goes beyond the competition.
Nathan
TMO Coverage:
Please note 3G coverage on the TMO is very hit or miss. If you have it in your area then it is good (they some of the best & newest equipment). If you are not in an area it is way worse than most carriers. The big problem is they don't have a lot of 3g areas yet (rapidly deploying though). AT&T blankets the US, but is overloaded; that is their problem.
So because T-mobile is the 4th largest US telly carrier, T-mobile users shouldn't get any Nokia love? The last time a nokia smartphone that was compatible with T-mobile was the nokia 6600 in 2003! I think its time t-mobile users have an option that isn't on EDGE. Don't worry--Nokia isn't crazy they will not leave out At&t and everyone else that uses the 850 band, I'm sure the next maemo phone will be available to you guys and another nokia smartphone won't be compatible with T-mobile again for ANOTHER 6 years.
Actually pretty much any of the european model phones support TMO. TMO is international and their carrier in the US is using the same freqs as those in Europe/Asia/Africa/etc... That is really the reason why the N900 has those freqs -- its because this phone was never targeted for the NA area -- but the rest of the world where their customer base is larger. Nokia has no presence really in the US. Go to any phone store and you see primarily LG, Samsung, Moto, HTC. Maybe (if your lucky) 1 model of Nokia... In this regard because they stopped doing things in NA years ago -- they are actually "being smart", since targetting Euro/Asia/Africa is the largest slice of the "whole" pie.
I put a lot of thought into my original question and I think I have a pretty good understanding of the whole dynamics. I made a couple assumptions "before" NW09 that made me believe that they were going to target NA. But now based on what I saw & read about at NW09 -- I now believe those assumptions are wrong. So, rather than "assume" that they are going after NA (like I did). I wanted to see if what I believe now and what I am seeing is true.
I understand Maemo team has finally became a primary "group" inside Nokia, which gives them a lot better resources -- and before that point they had to target probably the largest market they could with one design. And I can't fault them for choosing the "largest" market they could. But my question pertains to now that they have resources; are they planning on going after NA this time around or are they going to continue to abandon the NA market.
It should be a simple Question for Quim/Peter to answer. I didn't ask them for anything besides if they are working on attacking the NA market < or > 6 month. My current theory now is that it is > 6 months, and I really "hope" I'm wrong.
Nathan.
@nathan: I doubt a direct answer for such question can be given over an open forum like this. I'm guessing it's something along the lines of "We understand how important the NA market to us and are continuously trying to attend to our customer base in NA with all of our new products and services."
http://www.mobilenewscwp.co.uk/News/314511/nokia_networks_may_reject_n900.html
.
According to this Veep, don't worry about NA because Nokia isn't planning on selling very many of these phones anyway.
.
I'm starting to get flashes of NIT deja 'vu.
mistermix
2009-09-05, 21:14
As for CDMA, with 60% of the NA market being CDMA, that alone should be the incentive to build a CDMA version. I can take a CDMA phone from Sprint to Verizon to US Cellular, to Bell Canada and it will work. So if I bought one from the Nokia Store, I could use it on any CDMA carrier in NA. Unlike GSM, CDMA afaik has the same freqs on all the carriers. So you only have to make 1 phone to hit over 60% of the market in the NA.
Nokia makes very few (any?) CDMA smartphones. Up until last year RIM, a NA company, launched every flagship phone on GSM. Apple has yet to announce and launch an iPhone on CDMA. It's a secondary market worldwide, no matter how it dominates the US.
Honestly, *any* sales Nokia is able to make will likely double its market share in the U.S. If they can get the device out quicker/easier on T-Mobile than with AT&T, by all means, I support the decision. Nokia's market share in the U.S. is so low, specifically with smartphones, that *any* sales are better than what they've been doing.
http://www.mobilenewscwp.co.uk/News/314511/nokia_networks_may_reject_n900.html
.
According to this Veep, don't worry about NA because Nokia isn't planning on selling very many of these phones anyway.
.
I'm starting to get flashes of NIT deja 'vu.
Carrier customization is annoying. Yet the masses who buy direct from the carrier don't seem to care (in the U.S.). They often want the cheapest, preferably free, phone that will be an improvement over what just broke or got destroyed. Nowadays it almost has to have a qwerty keyboard of some kind due to texting volume.
I hide the AT&T icons for Music, Graphics, Tones, Games on the BBs I set up for my users. In the past I tried deleting the service books only to have them return. I did find what I thought was a policy item that would suppress the icons but haven't fully tested the success of this setting. And it is annoying to have my personal cell phone include hardcoded apps/icons I can't even hide, much less remove. A result of my choice though, not buying an unlocked phone I suppose.
I bring this up because I imagine that carriers make money by way of these customizations, often because customers are often blind and don't monitor their cell bill enough. (my users certainly don't, and then they deny making said "purchase" or refuse to pay for it) Everyone thinks "hey, because it's accessible on my phone and I didn't have to give a CC#, it's free". Yet it bills back to their wireless # through the carrier, even if from a 3rd party source. I believe more and more of these offerings now have legal disclaimers to accept, but again, what typical consumer reads them?
So since the N900 won't be offered in customized flavors to carriers, who says the carrier can't provide links to push OTA apps which DO offer these exact same services to N900 buyers? Why not have a web page/site dedicated to augmenting gimmick sales such as wallpapers, ringtones, etc. that is specific to the N900? I guess that's a choice carriers won't likely make, but has it been suggested at all I wonder? Maybe Nokia needs to develop and demo this to them. I mean why can't there be some form of signed installation package for these carrier apps that transmit to an IMEI through OTA and the user clicks once on the N900 to accept it?
Meanwhile the rest of us who grasp file system basics and understand the drag and drop concept can get our tones, wallpapers, etc. for free as we always have.
Nokia makes very few (any?) CDMA smartphones. Up until last year RIM, a NA company, launched every flagship phone on GSM. Apple has yet to announce and launch an iPhone on CDMA. It's a secondary market worldwide, no matter how it dominates the US.
I agree Nokia makes very few CDMA -- world wide CDMA is somewhere in the 20-30% so yes as I stated before GSM makes much more sense for the world wide market and the bands they choose are the largest supported. However NA based, CDMA has over 60% of the market.
Because Apple has saturated the AT&T market, it would be in their best interest to add CDMA. I'd be willing to make a wager that an Apple CDMA phone will come VERY (VERY) shortly after the AT&T exclusive is done to both Verizon and probably Sprint (Might be an exclusive with Verizon for the first 6 months). Apple wants ITunes users; they need and want to increase that market share. The Apple Lock-in is aesome for apple so if they can get you on their phone; you might stay for a really long time.
http://www.mobilenewscwp.co.uk/News/314511/nokia_networks_may_reject_n900.html
.
According to this Veep, don't worry about NA because Nokia isn't planning on selling very many of these phones anyway.
.
I'm starting to get flashes of NIT deja 'vu.
That is my fear -- and so far no responses from either is in imho confirming it. I can't see any reason why that can't say < 6 months; unless it is not true; which means don't "talk" about it.
It was worth a try to see how open they would be about this market. ;-)
Nathan.
There may at least be a glimmer of hope for Canada supporting the 3G frequency that N900 will initially use.
Rogers bought enough 1700/2100 spectrum for the entire country in 2008. They paid about $1B for it so I am pretty sure they will use it as some point, after all, no sense in spending a Billion dollars and not doing anything with it.
http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/July2008/21/c6305.html
A few other interesting notes:
Cingular, now ATT, purchased a huge chuck of this spectrum that covers about 200 million people.
Verizon Wireless also purchased a large block of 1700/2100 that covers the eastern US. One has to wonder why they spent nearly $3B for that?
And finally another organization called Spectrum Company bought enough of those licenses to cover the entire US, reaching nearly 270 million people.
http://www.cdg.org/news/events/cdmaseminar/07_NARC/Tues/Lawrence_1110%20AWS%20Overview.pdf
Maybe Nokia knows a lot more about what is happening with the carriers and 3G (or at least the AWS band) than the rest of us. The unfortunate thing most of us do know, these things will TAKE WAY TOO LONG, even if/when they do happen.
So, anyway we can order them in Canada directly?
So because T-mobile is the 4th largest US telly carrier, T-mobile users shouldn't get any Nokia love? The last time a nokia smartphone that was compatible with T-mobile was the nokia 6600 in 2003! I think its time t-mobile users have an option that isn't on EDGE. Don't worry--Nokia isn't crazy they will not leave out At&t and everyone else that uses the 850 band, I'm sure the next maemo phone will be available to you guys and another nokia smartphone won't be compatible with T-mobile again for ANOTHER 6 years.
When I read things like these I'm really happy that I do not have to use US carriers for my mobile phone experiences (although T-Mobile here in Germany has different data plans for the iPhone than it has for non-iPhone customers and it is a first that you have to pay for tethering your device to an iPhone here in Germany).
I really do hope that that was a slip and our market here doesn't get americanized.
I have a data plan which is completely unrelated to my phone plan (although it is from the same carrier).
lschumanfcoe
2009-09-06, 14:21
It is allowed on TMobile, the only network that supports it fully. Technically afaik, you can also use it on AT&T @ edge speeds.
Edge only? Sorry, but no way. Ever. There is a serious dearth of free wifi spots around here, with a metro population of well over a million. I've literally never run into one unless someone's home connection is unlocked. And that's increasingly rare. In fact, I read (on this forum I think) that free wifi in general may soon be extinct.
http://www.globaucal.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=30&Itemid=2
Furthermore, this pair is not harmonized worldwide; to our knowledge it can at best be considered as harmonized for the major parts of the Americas.
So... we do get a 1.7/2.1 Ghz auction, but they're not the same as everywhere else !?
And why oh why can't i order from nokiausa !
So, anyway we can order them in Canada directly?
Looks like we might be able to get them via expansys.ca (http://www.expansys.ca/d.aspx?i=187417) (for $760 :eek:) and we should be able to get true 3G via Wind Mobile (http://www.windmobile.ca/WIND-news/detail/answering-questions/) when they eventually launch...
More patience is required, it would seem, than I currently have in stock. :(
So, order from them with a random shipping price or through a friend in the US with a random border tax or keep waiting for nokia.ca to answer ... aahhhh!
What do we do ? :P
As for wind mobile, i'm getting the feeling that i'm getting screwed all over again:
Why aren’t we talking about Quebec? We’re not in Quebec because we were beat out in the spectrum auction. Quebecor was successful in buying up nearly all of the available AWS spectrum in Quebec. They actually paid more for the Quebec spectrum than we paid for all the rest of Canada! We wanted to be there (and really still want to be there), but we can’t do that without spectrum. However, we are working on having roaming coverage in Quebec and other areas in Canada.
For those from Québec: Kâlissse!
As for wind mobile, i'm getting the feeling that i'm getting screwed all over again:
For those from Québec: Kâlissse!
While we wait for Quebecor, Nokia has time to release another model. :(
Maybe I could use EDGE for a while but I don't want to be stuck with it if Nokia makes a new model.
While we wait for Quebecor, Nokia has time to release another model. :(
Maybe I could use EDGE for a while but I don't want to be stuck with it if Nokia makes a new model.
EDGE sounds good only for ssh/chat though, anyone has experience with SIP over 3G? Could we dump our "normal" gsm cell # and go purely data?
And for those thinking about expansys.ca:
RMN93009 <- this coupon gives you 10.87$ (go figure) off...Only one i tried that worked for me, for what it's worth hehe. I haven't clicked order yet but I'm really thinking about it a bit too hard! :P
I was thinking about shipping from a friend in the states... but with the exchange rate/fees and shipping it adds up to about the same as ordering from expansys.ca :/
Should i wait for NCIX or maybe nokia.ca (which didn't answer my mail yet) to get it?
Dear Mr. XXXXXX,
Thank you for e-mailing the Nokia Care Contact Center. We are glad that you have chosen the Nokia N810 as your preferred device.
I apologize for the delay in responding to your e-mail message and greatly appreciate your patience.
I appreciate your inquiry in the Nokia N900 device and the possibility of having it in Canada.
With regard to your inquiry about Nokia N900, we would like to let you know that as of the moment the release date of it in Canada is not yet available. Please check our website for further updates.
XXXXXX, this is to let you know that you can only purchased Nokia products from Nokia USA online store if you have a USA credit card and USA address. And also, the warranty will only be applicable in the country that the product is designated in.
For more information about Nokia N900, kindly visit http://maemo.nokia.com.
XXXXXX, I sincerely regret any inconvenience this may have caused. Nokia appreciates your business and continued support of our products.
If you have any additional questions, please don’t hesitate to contact us again. To ensure proper handling of your case, kindly continue using the current subject line.
Thank you very much for your email. Have a great day!
Kind regards,
XXXXXX
XXXXXX
XXXXXX
-------------8<--------------
So how come expansys.ca can sell it?
They're bringing stock from the states?
EDIT: Ah what the hell, i ordered from expansys-usa.com as they can ship to canada and right now 650$ USD is better than 750$ CAD, go figure!
joshua.maverick
2009-09-10, 17:34
Hrm.... 650 + 21 shipping + 7.5% tax = $721.33 US = $780 CAD
Still cheaper than expansys.ca though. *sigh.
You'd save 80 bucks if you just went across to buy it, which is what I plan to do.
As a Canadian ordering from an American retailer, there's always a hidden duty cost / brokerage fee that the courier charges you and that isn't factored into the shipping. It is never any less than $20, and it can end up being over $100.
If I remember correctly, expansys.ca factors that into their shipping costs. That's probably why they're more expensive. But I might be wrong. Tell us how it works out.
As a Canadian ordering from an American retailer, there's always a hidden duty cost / brokerage fee that the courier charges you and that isn't factored into the shipping. It is never any less than $20, and it can end up being over $100.
If I remember correctly, expansys.ca factors that into their shipping costs. That's probably why they're more expensive. But I might be wrong. Tell us how it works out.
You can say that again.
My wife shipped my $200 PC from the US. She paid $50 to ship it and FedEx told us "yeah, brokerage fees are included".
A few days later, FedEx was holding my PC hostage unless I paid them $150 before receipt.
nwerneck
2009-09-10, 19:12
Isn't there a chance Nokia is in some negotiation with the smaller carriers that support the N900 as it is?... Either that or they will really wait for step 5 or 6 to make a USA directed version, and the N900 is still a kind of novelty prototype right now, as are the other tablets. No iPhone killer, just a skirmisher!
The (USA) unpopular phone technology would serve to make only the most dedicated users buy it, just like the lack of phone function has prevented more general users to buy the tablet in the past.
klinglerware
2009-09-10, 19:42
Isn't there a chance Nokia is in some negotiation with the smaller carriers that support the N900 as it is?...
It's possible. Cincinnati Bell, for example, has carried some nice mid-level phones like the Nokia 5800. I don't know how that carrier is with crippling phones in general, but as a point of comparison both Cin Bell and T-mo carry a version of the Sony Ericsson TM-506. Reportedly, the Cin Bell version is much less crippled than the T-mo version (for example, the Cin Bell version retains access to the FM Radio, while the T-mobile version blocks it for some bizarre reason).
I would venture to guess that a small regional carrier would be less likely to cripple a phone simply because they wouldn't have the leverage that a national carrier would have to demand customization.
MildTonic
2009-09-10, 20:14
http://www.mobilenewscwp.co.uk/News/314511/nokia_networks_may_reject_n900.html
.
According to this Veep, don't worry about NA because Nokia isn't planning on selling very many of these phones anyway.
.
I'm starting to get flashes of NIT deja 'vu.
Maemo doesn't have similar environment as S60 and S40 for making operator variants. So if operator demands specific backgrounds, custom menus, icons and colours for GUI, answer is: No can do. This might cause some cough in operators, but this doesn't stop them to take N900 to selections like iPhone case. iPhone doesn't have any operator/carrier specific icons/menus and operators happily sell it.
For iPhone CDMA version I have great doubts...CDMA=Qualcomm and iPhone CDMA = royalties to Qualcomm, which doesn't sound like Apple style.
barry99705
2009-09-11, 15:13
Maemo doesn't have similar environment as S60 and S40 for making operator variants. So if operator demands specific backgrounds, custom menus, icons and colours for GUI, answer is: No can do. This might cause some cough in operators, but this doesn't stop them to take N900 to selections like iPhone case. iPhone doesn't have any operator/carrier specific icons/menus and operators happily sell it.
For iPhone CDMA version I have great doubts...CDMA=Qualcomm and iPhone CDMA = royalties to Qualcomm, which doesn't sound like Apple style.
THE US operator selling it doesn't really need branding. If you have an iPhone in the US they're 99.99% certain you are on At&t. They also have some pull on what makes it into the app store. That's why there's no Google voice. Sure you can jailbreak it, but you might end up making a nice shiny paper weight. Comparing the iPhone to the N900 is basically saying the N900 is jailbroken from the factory. I can see why the US carriers are hesitant on bringing this phone stateside. They all look at At&t's problems with the iPhone. No one thought it would take off like it did, not they are playing catch up to keep up with the network load.
matthewcc
2009-09-12, 15:36
can see why the US carriers are hesitant on bringing this phone stateside. They all look at At&t's problems with the iPhone. No one thought it would take off like it did, not they are playing catch up to keep up with the network load.
Not the issue at all.
You will never find a Business person who worries about "too many sales" = too much revenue
Thats what techies worry about silly. Im Sure if TMO thought they could increase market share by 50% the CEO would give his let testicle and let someone else worry about the network problems. :p
joshua.maverick
2009-09-12, 16:16
Not the issue at all.
You will never find a Business person who worries about "too many sales" = too much revenue
Thats what techies worry about silly. Im Sure if TMO thought they could increase market share by 50% the CEO would give his let testicle and let someone else worry about the network problems. :p
iPhone was a sure sell, the iPod created so much hype and took over, the iPhone was a no brainer to carry. Nokia hasn't had any massive market buzz in the US yet, the n97 was a quiet launch, the n95s and the e-series phones were just "there", people liked them, but nokia has never had a real hype/buzz beyond people who are tech heads.
Nokia strategy in North America needs to change. Starting with at least making their products available in Canada. *sigh.
matthewcc
2009-09-13, 02:39
Nokia hasn't had any massive market buzz in the US yet, the n97 was a quiet launch, the n95s and the e-series phones were just "there", people liked them, but nokia has never had a real hype/buzz beyond people who are tech heads.
Nokia strategy in North America needs to change. Starting with at least making their products available in Canada. *sigh.
I don't disagree, Nokia's marketing in the US sucks. The challenge is that they don't often partner with carriers and selling a phone for >$600 doesn't go over well in the states. If they got carriers to promote their high end phones AND they promoted themselves they might make a dent in the market.
Architengi
2009-09-13, 04:00
I rwad an interview with someone from Nokia and that person (don't remember its exact position) a director of sales or mktg for North-America said Nokia wants to be #1 in US...
Crashdamage
2009-09-13, 11:43
...someone from Nokia...a director of sales or mktg for North-America said Nokia wants to be #1 in US...
They had better get busy big-time. There's only room for so many players in the game. Right now it's a 3-way competition between Apple, RIM and Android with Palm struggling to stay on the roster. The more entrenched those become the harder it will be to get noticed. Time's a-wastin'...
mistermix
2009-09-13, 12:40
I rwad an interview with someone from Nokia and that person (don't remember its exact position) a director of sales or mktg for North-America said Nokia wants to be #1 in US...
There's a long road from some marketing guy talking smack to having even a noticeable presence in the US market.
The only place I regularly see a large number of Nokia phones is in the displays for prepaid phones at discount stores. The major carriers offer one or two models of Nokia phones at a given time, and they're usually low-end phones. Nokia smartphones have no mindshare among the general public. The only Nokia smartphone for sale by a major carrier at this moment is the "Surge", at AT&T.
The only Nokia smartphone for sale by a major carrier at this moment is the "Surge", at AT&T.
Not true. Check the E71x.
.
The problem isn't with Nokia, it's the deplorable position and power of the carriers......collusion, MASSIVE amounts of lobbying, the hold-over of the Ma Bell mentality, etc.
Nokia's vision of the industry is completely at odds with the U.S. tel-co's practices. Sure, Nokia throws out a little sacrificial lamb of a phone every now & again, and I know that there's a U.S. division of Nokia that I imagine "must" continue to try and work with the U.S. carriers.
But basically, Nokia is the only handset device manufacturer that has the ways and means to be able to tell the U.S. carriers, "FU."
Another piece of the story is Nokia's history in America.
Check this quote from Texrat in post #184 of the following thread:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31293&page=19
.
"I've said this numerous times so please forgive the repeat:
Nokia TRIED to change the US model. Competitors saw an opportunity to grab market share as Nokia worked toward a more open, retail-based service. The effort worked against Nokia and in favor of LG, Samsung, Moto, et al.
Cracking the crazy US market would take more than Nokia-- it would take the combined effort of every single manufacturer getting on the same page and standing tough (or the FCC and FTC doing their jobs). I don't see that happening."
Actually pretty much any of the european model phones support TMO. TMO is international and their carrier in the US is using the same freqs as those in Europe/Asia/Africa/etc... That is really the reason why the N900 has those freqs -- its because this phone was never targeted for the NA area -- but the rest of the world where their customer base is larger. Nokia has no presence really in the US. Go to any phone store and you see primarily LG, Samsung, Moto, HTC. Maybe (if your lucky) 1 model of Nokia... In this regard because they stopped doing things in NA years ago -- they are actually "being smart", since targetting Euro/Asia/Africa is the largest slice of the "whole" pie.
Nathan.
You say that the N900 would be targeted at the European or Asian markets but seeing the trends here (I am based in the UK and actively work in the Asian markets), that just doesnt seem to be happening. In the Uk as of now no network has come up with an announcement about the N900 and after extensively calling all of them, the general consensus is that it is highly unlikely. The same story is about Germany, Italy and Holland as well, where again no network wants to claim the N900. Now coming to the asian markets, something which retails for 500£ in the UK around 850$, amounts to a very expensive phone and the asian markets arent ready to spend that kind of dough where 3G and wifi is a big question mark. True Nokia has a prescence there but its only for the general handsets they do. Also worth mentioning is the fact that the Iphone has been out in India and Vodafone and Airtel, 2 exclusive apple partners are having a tough time selling the Iphone.
What I believe is that this handset is more like a trial Nokia is doing a small player if you will in the more grander Nokia world domination plans.
I read somewhere ,and I just forgot the webpage will post if I find it, that a highly placed executive at Nokia said this phone is for the geeks(He actually used the words geeks,not techies but geeks).
This phone wont be coming out in large numbers and only a very select few with the money to spare could probably afford this and that will be probably it.
Many things need to happen in order for Nokia to make a winning incursion in the US market:
a) The carrier with Nokia phones has to agree more or less to not cripple the devices and become a dumb data pipe for them. How they could achieve this, no idea, but is going to be hard.
b) For a) to happen, they need a powerful device to try and cover as many user cases in the most flashy way possible. Something that is at odds with Nokia's position that "one size does not fit all". So maybe this would be a family of devices.
c) They need a robust developer community ready to launch app after app, each one with quality and polish.
d) For the above to happen, they need a simple yet powerful development platform, and that's not gonna happen until Qt finalizes its entrenchment (in Maemo case, Harmattan).
e) They need a very fancy and expensive marketing campaign.
All of this to enter a market that have some carrier practices that are almost unbelievable, is in the middle of a retail crisis, and values form over function (once again, at odds with Nokia philosophy).
You can see that the cost-benefit ratio of this incursion may not be favorable in the short term. In the long term, maybe.
TMO is international and their carrier in the US is using the same freqs as those in Europe/Asia/Africa/etc... That is really the reason why the N900 has those freqs -- its because this phone was never targeted for the NA area -- but the rest of the world where their customer base is larger. .
That is an erroneous statement and also some wild speculation on your part.
With the N900, Nokia included the 1700mhz band for 3G. 1700 is usable only by T-Mobile U.S. (at this time.)
So I would surmise that they do want to sell some of these units in the States.
.
Nokia's number 1 and 2 markets (in terms of volume) are Asia and India, but with lower priced phones. It's my understanding that their smartphones are generally aimed at their #3 market, Europe .
Laughing Man
2009-09-13, 22:55
Maemo doesn't have similar environment as S60 and S40 for making operator variants. So if operator demands specific backgrounds, custom menus, icons and colours for GUI, answer is: No can do.
Sure they could brand it. It just wouldn't stay branded once into a consumer's hand that doesn't like or want the branding. Though given that most consumers never bother with this sort of thing (even with the iPhone which has software that does it for you) I'd say there's still an environment for branding.
quipper8
2009-09-14, 15:42
It seems there are rumors afloat of a potential buyout of Sprint Nextel by Deutsche Telekom. Considering DT already owns t-mobile and Nokia is buddy buddy with DT lately, this could bode quite well for nokia in US market
Architengi
2009-09-14, 15:57
It seems there are rumors afloat of a potential buyout of Sprint Nextel by Deutsche Telekom. Considering DT already owns t-mobile and Nokia is buddy buddy with DT lately, this could bode quite well for nokia in US market
You say "Nokia is buddy buddy with DT [Deutsche Telekom] lately"... Why is that? Because look, Nokia cannot even sell through T-Mobile (owned by DT) its N900 custom made for T-Mobile frequencies (N900 which does not work on AT&T 3G network)...
You say "Nokia is buddy buddy with DT [Deutsche Telekom] lately"... Why is that? Because look, Nokia cannot even sell through T-Mobile (owned by DT) its N900 custom made for T-Mobile frequencies (N900 which does not work on AT&T 3G network)...
Nokia is buddy buddy with DT, they were in Nokia World and mentioned as one of their critical partners.
That, for whatever reason, Nokia doesn't want to move quicker in the US is another story. Can't blame them. They got one shot at this, and they have to be sure it is going to work.
matthewcc
2009-09-14, 16:34
They (nokia) got one shot at this, and they have to be sure it is going to work.
they shouldn't have done this whole media blitz, pre-order thing.
They should have figured out relationships, standard software packages etc before making any public statement on it. Look at the trending on searches (http://www.google.com/trends?q=n900&ctab=0&geo=all&date=mtd&sort=0)
Having worked for a German firm, I thought that German marketing was some of the worst in the world, maybe I should look north before giving that title away:mad:
they shouldn't have done this whole media blitz, pre-order thing.
They should have figured out relationships, standard software packages etc before making any public statement on it. Look at the trending on searches (http://www.google.com/trends?q=n900&ctab=0&geo=all&date=mtd&sort=0)
Having worked for a German firm, I thought that German marketing was some of the worst in the world, maybe I should look north before giving that title away:mad:
The fact is they didn't. If something, what Nokia has done is to underscore the N900 all around, specially in Nokia World.
That the device itself is so good that generated so much blitz despite Nokia's effort to underplay it, is a whole different issue.
matthewcc
2009-09-14, 16:47
The fact is they didn't. If something, what Nokia has done is to underscore the N900 all around, specially in Nokia World.
That the device itself is so good that generated so much blitz despite Nokia's effort to underplay it, is a whole different issue.
I'll defer to you on the "nokia world" part of it, and blame my perspective on my environment, the us market. In the US market, hardware providers tend to have all that other stuff figured out before announcing products.
I'll defer to you on the "nokia world" part of it, and blame my perspective on my environment, the us market. In the US market, hardware providers tend to have all that other stuff figured out before announcing products.
I do believe that the N900 have all that stuff figured out for their selected markets. What would be painful for a lot of people here is that, for whatever reason, the US is not considered between those markets.
I share your pain, because even if I don't live in the US, 3G in my country has the AT&T frequencies. Gotta be patient, I guess (even more since I am waiting on Harmattan).
quipper8
2009-09-14, 17:09
I think with the n900, nokia really doesn't care, so to speak, if joe and mary smith are gonna go to the wal-mart and see that there are not any nokia n900s in stock and be pissed. This is the most expensive device nokia is selling right now and probably one of the most expensive on the market today, so, no, it is not for everybody at all.
matthewcc
2009-09-14, 17:16
I think with the n900, nokia really doesn't care, so to speak, if joe and mary smith are gonna go to the wal-mart and see that there are not any nokia n900s in stock and be pissed. This is the most expensive device nokia is selling right now and probably one of the most expensive on the market today, so, no, it is not for everybody at all.
More likely joe and mary never heard of the n900 so they wouldn't even know they should be upset... Maybe the n900 will catch on because of how underground and exclusive it is... Isn't that how Rap music started?? next thing you know all the kids will be doing it?! :rolleyes:
wow the N900 is going to be shipped to US retailers on the 27th of this month its official.
http://thenokiablog.com/3438
quipper8
2009-09-14, 17:52
*this date represents the best estimated date provided by the vendor....
ColonelKilkenny
2009-09-14, 17:54
This is the most expensive device nokia is selling right now and probably one of the most expensive on the market today, so, no, it is not for everybody at all.
I agree with the point you're making but I also have to add that N900 is nowhere near the most expensive device Nokia has. N900 is in high end of smartphones but it's quite cheap compared to other Nokia models (N97, E90, 8800, etc.). (And of course there's also Vertu)
quipper8
2009-09-14, 17:59
when I go here
http://www.nokiausa.com/find-products
the n900 preorder is the most expensive item
barry99705
2009-09-14, 18:41
More likely joe and mary never heard of the n900 so they wouldn't even know they should be upset... Maybe the n900 will catch on because of how underground and exclusive it is... Isn't that how Rap music started?? next thing you know all the kids will be doing it?! :rolleyes:
Wow, I wouldn't put the N900 and rap in the same statement. Like they say, you can't have crap without rap.
quipper8: not if you only look at the MRSP. There can't be any discounts on an unreleased product.
sljonson
2009-09-14, 18:48
*this date represents the best estimated date provided by the vendor....
But it is an estimated day provided by the vendor aka Nokia. And it's something a bit more definitive than a lot of the other dates I seen posted (emphasis on 'a bit' ;) ).
Here is a summary of Canada frequency coverage:
http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/cou_ca.shtml
The more i try to figure out coverage for the N900 in Canada, the more i get confused... for example Videotron is listed as 3G 1700... does that mean that AWS can actually operate on the same band for up/down ? Can the N900 operate on any of its supported frequencies independantly?
joshua.maverick
2009-09-15, 04:03
Wow, I wouldn't put the N900 and rap in the same statement. Like they say, you can't have crap without rap.
Do you listen to rap? Fool. Please shut up.
The more i try to figure out coverage for the N900 in Canada, the more i get confused... for example Videotron is listed as 3G 1700... does that mean that AWS can actually operate on the same band for up/down ? Can the N900 operate on any of its supported frequencies independantly?
I'm not sure about how this all works either. All I know is that T-Mobile USA handsets should work on the new AWS networks in Canada (Wind, DAVE, and Videotron). That should mean the N900.
So Quebecois will have an N900-compatible option sooner rather than later with Videotron. That's good news. At least Quebecor didn't sit on their hands. As for prices, who knows?
U.S. distribution centers to get hands on Nokia N900 on September 23rd (http://www.phonearena.com/htmls/U.S.-distribution-centers-to-get-hands-on-Nokia-N900-on-September-23rd-article-a_6917.html)
So Quebecois will have an N900-compatible option sooner rather than later with Videotron. That's good news. At least Quebecor didn't sit on their hands. As for prices, who knows?
I wrote to Vidéotron to check if by chance they could say more.
They wrote back that they were actually working on setting-up their new 3G+ network. And they said that in the beginning of 2010 they will have more informations about the network and the services.
vBulletin® v3.8.8, Copyright ©2000-2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.