Step 4

[mykenyc]

Is there any real reason why nokia would say such thing. I been reading this forum as well as writing in it and everyone seems to be pissed off. Also everyone have their own reason for what it might be is there any official statement to explain why they would downplay such a powerful device?:confused:

[mrojas]

Is there any real reason why nokia would say such thing. I been reading this forum as well as writing in it and everyone seems to be pissed off. Also everyone have there own reason for what it might be is there any official statement to explain why they would downplay such a powerful device?:confused:

I think it was said in the vein of "Look, it is awesome right? Right? Guess what, it is only step 4, so we can make it MORE awesome! /flex"

And why he said that? Perhaps because they want the platform and its ecosystem to be even more developed before launching it. Probably it is going to be the spearhead into the US market, and it has to be as failproof as possible.

[ColdFusion]

It sounds more like "This is step 4 out of 5, it's still an unfinished product"

They can say that they're commited to future development and more maemo devices to come later. But saying it's step 4 sounds like it's not ready and you should wait for the final step 5 to get excited.

[freppas]

Honestly the whole launch of the n900 was slightly disappointing from a marketing perspective. Either they didn't want it to get too much attention, wanting to save it for the 5th generation, but that's failed because it's getting a lot of press and interest, or they were looking for just that, in which case they presented it in a less than optimal way.

I'm toying with the idea of doing a small open-marketing campaign if there's support in the community. Basically we'll work together in an open way to do some underground marketing, although I suspect Nokia would have some things to say on the matter, does anyone know if we're allowed to do things like this?

The basics of it, as I see it:
It should create awareness about maemo, which will hopefully lead to more developers coming in, better sales of the device etc. it should be easy to execute, because we all have other things to do as well, and it should be free. My ideas that fit his description so far are pretty much limited to having a bunch of people opening their windows and hollering out "Maemo on Nokia" as loud as they can two days prior to the device launching. But here comes the beauty of open source, we'll have many people contributing ideas and helping to make it work.

That post was a lot longer han I intended, sorry about that. Anyways, to get back on topic, I think it was a bit of a mistake the way they presented the n900 but they might have had their reasons.

PS: if anyone has any thoughts or knowledge regarding an open-marketing thing please feel free to enlighten me :)

[lcuk]

this is linux.
we come to help build the barn.

[jandmdickerson]

If that is what he meant he should have said this is our first major step and soon will be releasing an even more compelling UI with the addition of qt.

Because step four of a five plan project sound incomplete, or only eighty percent complete.

[ragnar]

Well, having a presentation in Nokia World of course means the whole of Nokia. In the scale of Nokia, Maemo is a small (albeit important) part of the bigger picture. There is a lot riding on the N97, the N97 mini, the X6 etc. S60 and S40 devices, as well as the various services. I wasn't even expecting Anssi to say that "hey, forget about these devices, here's the N900!". :)

Still, people do make their voices heard (http://conversations.nokia.com/2009/09/07/n900-wins-nokia-world-09-popularity-contest/).

[joshua.maverick]

It seems to me some free/viral marketing is the way to go with this, considering maemo is open-source. But I don't think the yelling out the window is the best way... lol

Here's what I think would be a great way, and would drive alot of traffic and build awareness.

We pick a day/time, or just always, where everyone in the community puts something like

"Wow. I really hope "girlfriend/boyfriend/husband/wife name" doesn't find out about my new love, http://bit.ly/4uqsTe"

In their facebook/messenger/twitter/gchat/etc. status/update spot. by using the name, people will understand its not a virus, and the hidden link is a bit intriguing also.

[ragnar]

Of course the problem with any next step is that ... Naturally everybody is aiming to make the next step better - otherwise why even take it - but then again, you cannot be sure of it before it's done.

I'm hoping it will be eventually better, and I'm trying to do my best on my small area with it, but there are a lot of factors and variables with it. There's always the risk that things don't turn out well.

Meanwhile, we know that step 4 turned out pretty good indeed. It's in our hands and we get to use it and you see it in the videos. So I wouldn't advocate to anybody waiting for the next step, but going out and buying the N900.

[aironeous]

LTE is coming. Also slashgears notes from interviews at Nokia World gives the impression we might get multiple maemo devices on the market.
LTE link
http://conversations.nokia.com/2009/09/07/nokia-internet-modem-rd-3-available/
Without flash 10 I would consider it not the final step no matter how nice the device is.

[sachin007]

Nokia needs to take maemo more seriously. Symbian is also very good but it really lacks in the sense that it is not a complete UI for mini computers. With more and more devices in the future being mobile computers rather than just mobile phones, symbian really cant cope with the competition. Symbian should concentrate on dumb phones and maemo should be the only way forward for high end phones. With the meager resources alloted to internet tablets it is really great that they came out with such a wonderful UI.... now i can only imagine how much more better it would be if there was more importance on maemo at nokia.

[benny1967]

the whole "step x of y" wasn't a phrase that was coined at NW09. it's a plan that i first heard of when they introduced the N810, and probably it had been mentioned before.

so if he hadn't said it during the keynote, somebody would have asked later: "is this step 4 now?" - there was no way around it anyway.

also, nokia needs to be very careful about how they present this device. it's not even close to feature parity with S60, it even lacks features you see in S40 IIRC. if they say "this is our new best phone", everybody would compare it... and everybody would soon find out. the way they are downplaying things now, they can always say: "right, it doesn't have feature X. it's still in an early stage, it's a niche product. take the N97 if you want a real smartphone."

i don't see anything wrong with this strategy.

[mrojas]

To be completely honest, I will wait for step 5. Not because of anything huge in particular: there are many little things in step 4 that just doesn't fully convince me for the cash I will have to pay (portrait mode, TV Out, battery, MfE, HW/form factor, etc). And if step 5 turns to be meh, I will just buy step 4 which should be cheaper and better by then.

I will add that in my particular case my ratio of cost/benefit is very exigent: to get an unlocked Nokia device, I have to travel from my country to either Chicago or NYC, the nearest flagships stores. No other reliable way of getting my hands on a device. :(

[freppas]

Right,

The idea about a campaign with links sounds a lot more modern, not to mention easier on the throat than my window screaming ;) See, the beauty of open-source is in clear light now. Nokia mentioned that open-source needs to learn more about business and open-source advocates have been talking about business learning from open source for a long time. This seems like a very small first step towards that goal.

So, everyone who wants to help spread the word can do so with a coordinated (thereby hopefully more effective) changing of their social network status. Cool!

Is there anything else that we could do? say a open-remix of the n900 youtube vid. with more focus on maemo, something like "maemo, the future is wide open".

[sachin007]

Well speaking about publicity. Nokia is sponsoring the engadget show on September 13th. After all the bashing they get from engadget i wonder why they would do that? I wish nokia would make better use of that money rather then sponsor that blog.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/08/the-engadget-show-is-taping-live-this-sunday-september-13th/2#comments

[dantonic]

has anything been said about how soon we can hope to see step 5 appearing? I will probably buy the n900 because i don't want to wait two years for another device.

[benny1967]

Of course the problem with any next step is that ... Naturally everybody is aiming to make the next step better - otherwise why even take it - but then again, you cannot be sure of it before it's done.

I'm hoping it will be eventually better, and I'm trying to do my best on my small area with it, but there are a lot of factors and variables with it. There's always the risk that things don't turn out well.

Interesting thought... It matches my personal experience with the tablet lineup. The steps may lead towards something Nokia envisions, but at the same time each step is a step away from the original tablet concept that was 100% what I wanted and needed. N900 already would be a compromise... 60%-70% maybe of what I want. Who knows if step 5 then has anything I would find attractive?

Even with S60 phones Nokia moves in the wrong direction (from my POV). Like: S60/5 on the N97 misses a lot of crucial functions my 2 year old S60/3 has.

So it's not always safe to assume the next thing will be better for you.

[JayOnThaBeat]

Step 4 will cost me $250.

When that is, time will tell ;)

[vaha130]

Honestly the whole launch of the n900 was slightly disappointing from a marketing perspective. Either they didn't want it to get too much attention, wanting to save it for the 5th generation, but that's failed because it's getting a lot of press and interest, or they were looking for just that, in which case they presented it in a less than optimal way.

Yeah, disappointing. They should have gone all the way when releasing a product. I'm also disappointed with my old Nokia 6300. They should release fewer but more trustworthy products.

---------------
reductil 10mg (http://www.reductil15mg.com)

[freppas]

Yeah, disappointing. They should have gone all the way when releasing a product. I'm also disappointed with my old Nokia 6300. They should release fewer but more trustworthy products.

Well the thing about Nokia is that they cater to everyone in the mobile market. So don't expect less products, it's simply not feasible with their general strategy.

[Jack6428]

everytime someone mentions Step 4 out of 5, i just get worried not knowing wheter to buy the N900 or not...they should have promoted it alot more... they did ok, but the promotion could have been better and i hope it will be next month when it launches... About other Maemo 5 devices also... what those could have better lol? I hope we get answers from Nokia soon...at the Maemo Summit...like how many more Maemo 5 devices will come, when will Maemo 6 come, etc. I would be really pissed if i bought the N900 and then suddenly in 6 months Maemo 6 arrives..but honestly i find that idea stupid, because if it were true, why make the N900 in the first place..

[nashith]

"Wow. I really hope "girlfriend/boyfriend/husband/wife name" doesn't find out about my new love, http://bit.ly/4uqsTe"

In their facebook/messenger/twitter/gchat/etc. status/update spot. by using the name, people will understand its not a virus, and the hidden link is a bit intriguing also.


I did exactly that and got so many people asking what/who/again hehe..

[ruskie]

If I had a n810 today I would wait to see step 5. As I don't have any of the older tablets I'll get the n900. If step 5 turns out to be something I like I'll wait a bit for it's price to drop then buy it. If not well atleast I'll get rid of the crap that is the n95(for which I payed 200eur) :)

[bAxon]

For some reason the more I think about it, the more it sounds like Step 4 would be more a testing/ incubating phase geared towards developers.

[attila77]

Guys, there is no 'developer phase'. Every following device attempted to target a broader and broader audience, regardless if developers or users. Without users, there is no publicly sold end-user device. This (http://www.logicpd.com/products/development-kits/texas-instruments-zoom%E2%84%A2-omap34x-ii-mdp) is how a developer device looks like.

[mrojas]

Well speaking about publicity. Nokia is sponsoring the engadget show on September 13th. After all the bashing they get from engadget i wonder why they would do that? I wish nokia would make better use of that money rather then sponsor that blog.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/08/the-engadget-show-is-taping-live-this-sunday-september-13th/2#comments

They dedicated an article to whine about how capacitive is better than resistive and moan about not getting invited to Nokia World (like I read in one of the comments "OWNED"), so I guess this event was coordinated before that, or it is a olive branch to see if Engadget has grown a sense of impartiality already.

Because it would be to "funny" for them to bash Nokia tech in their sponsored event...

[cristids]

Well I think it is not a bad marketing problem. Here are the few steps in the wrong direction that give me the idea that they are somewhat disturbed by the buzz the N900 is making :
* N900 is launched before the actual Nokia World event, like hoping the wow effect will go away in several days;
* at the real nokia world event we get the "wrong step" info telling us that this is only the fourth like a message do not buy it yet, there will be something else next year. I thought these guys, at this level, don't make such unintentional mistakes;
* Dr. Ari Jaaksi is starting his interview also at nokia world acting like N900 is not something amazing, just something for "those guys" . And this coming from the one guy at nokia that should praise the N900 like the holly grail of phones, right? After all he is VP for maemo devices ;
* on September 4 , one day after the nokia world, another step back reported at http://www.mobilenewscwp.co.uk/News/314511/nokia_networks_may_reject_n900.html containing this specific quote: "We have a good, long lasting relationship with the networks, but we understand that they may not be happy with the user interface because it cannot be customised." How can linux interface not be customized. This again comming from Nokia executive vice president Kari Tuutti;
* again, today we get another news at http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/nokia-will-forgo-carrier-customization-n900/2009-09-09 .Ok so now we get it, not that you cannot, just that nokia doesn't want it to happen. Why? Maybe because this way operators will not embrace this device?

So do you smell something rotten in Denmark? Or should I get my pills?

What I do not understand, unless there is an actual fight inside nokia departments, is why would you invest in building such a powerful device and then simply trying to push its sales back right before actually selling it.

[mrojas]

Perhaps they fear it is going to cannibalize their S60 handsets (N97 et all), and Symbian is way more entrenched in Nokia than Maemo is.

Something similar happened back in the day in the PC industry. IBM delayed the launch of a PC with the 386 processor, to avoid cannibalizing the sales of their smallest mainframes which had a similar performance.

The result? Compaq launched the 386 PC before IBM. Ouch.

I don't want to think that for them Maemo is just a bandaid until Symbian^4 arrives...

[CyberCat]

This (http://www.logicpd.com/products/development-kits/texas-instruments-zoom%E2%84%A2-omap34x-ii-mdp) is how a developer device looks like.

Wow, that thing is awesome. :D

[zerojay]

It's ALL a big conspiracy guys. All of it!

By the way, Denmark stinks. Good thing Nokia's in Finland!

[mrojas]

It's ALL a big conspiracy guys. All of it!

By the way, Denmark stinks. Good thing Nokia's in Finland!

"Agent Simmons: Ooh. Nokia's are real nasty. You've gotta respect the Japanese. They know the way of the samurai.
Maggie Madsen: Nokia's from Finland.
Keller: Yes, but he's, you know, a little strange. He's a little strange. "

[livefreeordie]

You know, maybe they just don't have the inventory. What if they completely underestimated demand for Maemo, noticed all the buzz in July and August, and are now shitting their pants.

Excess demand is not a good thing. What if Maemo outclasses S60 so badly that a significant portion of the market decides to go for the N900? Sounds good, but what if production is still ramping up? Suddenly S60 devices are rotting on the shelves, and there are no N900:s to be sold. They could still absorb the costs of excess inventory, but selling nothing they'd probably make a loss for several quarters.

Worst case scenario, the permanently unavailable N900 makes the N97 look so bad that people get a negative association with a perfectly decent platform and go for Android instead, even if they actually would have been happy with S60 had they never heard of Maemo.


Edit: refusing operator customization is obviously not related, imho. One more processor generation and your phone and the hotel's HDTV just replaced your laptop. Nokia absolutely cannot let the operators screw with what they're going to push as the next general computing platform.

[mykenyc]

lol thanks for the response, but if i was Nokia i think i would have just kept my mouth close they really need to stop butt f**king Symbian and let both platforms co-exist without downplaying maemo if thats what this was all about.

if not my apologies Nokia lol

[Jack6428]

Ok, I have just made up my mind about buying the N900. I will buy it. I was thinking about the "step 4/5" thing, but after considering several things, i don't want to wait that long and i can't really too. Nokia N900 starts selling in October. Nokia N920 will arrive within 9,5 months from now, sometime around June 2010. From what i understood it will be basically a N900 with many software updates and a newer Maemo 5 UI. Maemo 6 will arrive in eta spring 2011, more less. So all in all, waiting for the N920 would be for me stupid, because it won't be a dramatical change like from 810 to 900, more less polishing the N900 for the average consumer. Plus the N900 will get several firmware updates for sure, at least one coming this year around November/December and one being already in retail. So, in the very end, i don't want to wait 1,8yrs for Maemo 6 devices with some S60 phone aside. I will get the N900 and live with it minimum 2,5 years, like i live with every phone i buy. So, just saying that, the N900 will rock :)

[GeneralAntilles]

Nokia N920 will arrive within 9,5 months from now, sometime around June 2010. From what i understood it will be basically a N900 with many software updates and a newer Maemo 5 UI. Maemo 6 will arrive in eta spring 2011, more less.

Mind sourcing these dates? As far as I'm aware, no announcements have been made about any of those items.

[livefreeordie]

Mind sourcing these dates? As far as I'm aware, no announcements have been made about any of those items.

Yeah, and the rumors I've heard place Maemo 6 in Q4 2010.


Edit: going completely from memory of rumors, I also had the impression the next Maemo 5 device is coming in Q1.

And what does firmware upgrade mean for the Nxxx-series anyway? Is it just phonespeak for dist-upgrade?

[Bulfaiter]

The first thing I thought when I saw the N900 (in the maemo.nokia.com website) was that they had a "N97 killer" (as opposed to the iPhone Killer everybody looks for).

After some videos, reading the forums and all that, I really thought they had the said iPhone Killer (The TV-out option + OpenGL is just great! A unadvertised gaming platform!). But if they drop support, and they try to focus again on their high-end symbian devices...

I think we'll have to wait and see.