Will the N900 make it? [Archive] - maemo.org

epoch24

2009-09-17, 22:08

I have to say I was so damn excited the day Nokia finally anounced this phone, something good was finally coming out from the viking warlords of mobile phone manufacturers, over the days as the hype and hoopla over this handset continue I continued to dream that Yes, finally a device which literally has it all and yay... finally something to show up to the Iphone snobs, but boy was I in for a rude awakening, well not so much for me personally but for the future of this particular handset as a whole. Nokia intends to, I believe get a firm grounding in the smartphone and the touch based devices segment with the launch of this handset. But I have a feeling the N900 wont be the one for them, future incarnations maybe but definitely not this one. The biggest and strongest competitor to this will be the Iphone and all bashing and hating aside the phone actually sells, peole who have it love it and the ones who dont, want it. Sure the Iphone hardware wise is crap and I cant justify the price they charge for it as well, 900£ for an unlocked 3GS, crickey thats 2 months rent for me, that aside however they know that their core demographic loves it and will spend the moneys they want to get it. Apple has over the years created a very strong brand for itself, how many movies or TV shows do you see where their laptops or phones are not Apple branded, its not like expensive windows based products dont exist, they for some reason are just not cool enough. Even though Nokia sells more handsets by the hour than Apple sells through the day, Nokia does not enjoy the favourable brand appeal, because honestly when you think of a Nokia you have an image of a numeric pad based phone which has Snake on it. Another aspect which is worth mentioning is the people who actually buy these phones, most Iphone users dont know that their phone is running an ARM cortex 600Mhz processor, or that it is factory locked to a provider, they simply dont care about all this, all they want is for people to look at their device and know that they are a part of the "it" crowd not the IT crowd.
Nokia made a smart move on their side to put a 3G radio on their Maemo based device and have a pwerful phone out, but marketing wise they just fell flat, the N97 mini was picked up the moment word came out about its release. Even Sony ericcsson did a bangup job with the satio they had operators in their baskets months before the release.
It does make you wonder with only days left before its launch there is still nothing on the news or no announcements from operators, no ads no marketing whatsoever, Is Nokia really serious about this phone, even LG when they released their phone with a stupid transparent key pad had more ads. As a consumer I really would like to know the answer as this really factors in stuff like future firmwares or upgrades, because if this is just a niche product meant for a select few they wont really bother wasting time after this hits the markets.
Please give your comments...

sachin007

2009-09-17, 22:12

The n900 is still not intended to be main stream as to be allowed to be subsidized by the carriers.

epoch24

2009-09-17, 22:19

The n900 is still not intended to be main stream as to be allowed to be subsidized by the carriers.

so essentially this would be a niche product, How was the support for the N810 tablet, I have heard it did not have many problems to begin with but did Nokia release updates.
thanks

quipper8

2009-09-17, 22:29

nokia has already said this device and maemo 5 are just a stepping stone on their path to world domination a la maemo 6, where I suspect they will have a wider range of phones on that platform and 'push' harder.

And, nokia is not like apple. Apple has ONE phone, nokia makes over 50 models every year to fit almost every market segment imaginable, from throwaway disposable phones to the super elite high end megabucks devices, to the uber-hackable inbetween devices that they explicitly just push out there and pretty much say, "Here, see what y'all can do with this"

For me at least the nokia model suits much better and Nokia is doing its part, however slowly, to tear down the HORRIBLE state of mobile affairs in the USA. They are coming at it from an entirely different angle than Apple, which has pretty much said, one device, one carrier, one wy to get apps, etc.

sachin007

2009-09-17, 22:30

Sorry my bad. Atleast in the UK it is subsidized. I dont think it will happen in the US

http://www.mobilephonesdirect.co.uk/Pay-As-You-Go/sc462/p26078.aspx

epoch24

2009-09-17, 22:38

Sorry my bad. Atleast in the UK it is subsidized. I dont think it will happen in the US

http://www.mobilephonesdirect.co.uk/Pay-As-You-Go/sc462/p26078.aspx

I know cant contain my excitement, and as far as having a unique phone goes, as you guys have put it that this will not see a huge market launch that suits me just fine as long as they keep putting out updates.

quipper8

2009-09-17, 23:02

I know cant contain my excitement, and as far as having a unique phone goes, as you guys have put it that this will not see a huge market launch that suits me just fine as long as they keep putting out updates.

there will probably only be one or at most two updates to maemo 5 if past history is any indicator. Perhaps if they go longer term with maemo 6 you can expect a longer update period. Just being honest.

sachin007

2009-09-17, 23:04

there will probably only be one or at most two updates to maemo 5 if past history is any indicator. Perhaps if they go longer term with maemo 6 you can expect a longer update period. Just being honest.

The updates will be many but they will be incremental because the n900 can be updated via SSU. Diablo as of now is very usable. In fact most of the previous tablet users would take only the processor upgrade and ram upgrade as is. So not to worry about the stability or the use of maemo 5

quipper8

2009-09-17, 23:28

The updates will be many but they will be incremental because the n900 can be updated via SSU.

I have never had a nokia device that had many incremental updates whether it could do it OTA/network or not. I am not sure where you are coming from with that statement. Even as this device is starting to be released we already know there will be no more updates to Diablo, and I am sure once the details of the Maemo 6 device next year are released you can kiss goodbye any hope of any more updates to the maemo 5 on your n900. This is not necessarily a negative to me, just a fact of how they have proceeded with maemo development thus far and I don't see any reason to think 5 will be any different than 4.

sachin007

2009-09-17, 23:35

I have never had a nokia device that had many incremental updates whether it could do it OTA/network or not. I am not sure where you are coming from with that statement. Even as this device is starting to be released we already know there will be no more updates to Diablo, and I am sure once the details of the Maemo 6 device next year are released you can kiss goodbye any hope of any more updates to the maemo 5 on your n900. This is not necessarily a negative to me, just a fact of how they have proceeded with maemo development thus far and I don't see any reason to think 5 will be any different than 4.

Well the n8x0 were supposed to have another update called elephanta but they scrapped it because they had to work on maemo 5. But what i meant to say is that diablo was good enough for many of us without any major concerns. Of course more updates are always nice but the lack of proper hardware is definitely a hinderance to further updates. Now a days 2 years is a lot in device's life cycle. I dont see many users who would use thier n900's for more than that.

quipper8

2009-09-17, 23:37

Well the n8x0 were supposed to have another update called elephanta but they scrapped it because they had to work on maemo 5. But what i meant to say is that diablo was good enough for many of us without any major concerns. Of course more updates are always nice but the lack of proper hardware is definitely a hinderance to further updates. Now a days 2 years is a lot in device's life cycle. I dont see many users who would use thier n900's for more than that.

So you still think there will be many incremental updates? I guess only time will tell.

sachin007

2009-09-17, 23:39

So you still think there will be many incremental updates? I guess only time will tell.

I think there will be. But time will tell. Since maemo 5 is totally new and there will be bugs in the start and nokia believes in releasing early and often.

Anyway lets see.

christexaport

2009-09-18, 00:49

I've owned many high end Nokia devices, and updates are plenty and often.

christexaport

2009-09-18, 00:53

I am somewhat disappointed that when the latest iPhone, Android, Blackberry, or Palm device comes out, they have someone showing it off on Oprah, the View, Ellen, Good Morning America, Daily Buzz, G4TV, etc, but I haven't heard one single word about the N900 on traditional media outlets in the US yet. The Palm Pixie and Moto Cliq are the hot devices of the moment here in the US, and people are looking for the TP2 and Sholes to come out, but no buzz for the N900 here. Hope it increases (buzz in the US on TV) once the Maemo Summit comes down.

HangLoose

2009-09-18, 06:26

Sometimes I think if Nokia trying SO hard to get a dent in the North American market, in detriment to other markets, its really worth...

Maybe instead of trying to market it in Oprah or Ellen Degeneres(?!)... Going "Hollywood" would be better. Nothing creates more hype than Rambo remotely exploding a truck via SSH or John McClane using Maemo mapper to find the next russian/german/south american/arab/japanese terrorist...

Heck, just remember that "Matrix phone".. I really really wanted one :P

R-R

2009-09-18, 06:42

Than again i really laughed at the Vaio's apparition in Terminator :P

dieg

2009-09-18, 07:03

I really liked the "cameo" of the Nokia 770 in the "Fantastic Four: Silver Surfer" :)

qole

2009-09-18, 07:14

Many of us in the community figure that most of the power-wielders in Nokia don't even realize what they've got on their hands here, or maybe they're wilfully ignoring it because it isn't what they're used to... Nobody's really sure what's going on in the Finnish Juggernaut.

So anyway, a few community members have suggested starting a Community Marketing Campaign (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31626). Tim Samoff has even started a YouTube channel (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=327912#post327912).

That's how marketing works in this century anyways. Forget the splashy ads; go for viral videos.

ossipena

2009-09-18, 07:19

@epoch24

could you next time use paragraphs, please?

romanianusa

2009-09-18, 07:21

It's phone created by European that speak bad English with horrible accent. That is why they are having a hard time marketing!! LOL

christexaport

2009-09-18, 07:23

HangLoose

2009-09-18, 07:39

quole, that works to get the geeks in your corner, but not to get the mainstream users to get the device.

HangLoose, I think you underestimate the power of Oprah Winfrey in the US. She single handedly made the Kindle hot across the US. I'm not sure where you're from, but in America, she's the trendsetter of them all. She mentions you, and sales go through the roof overnight.

Check this out for a little background. This is about a special on her called "The Oprah Effect":
http://www.cnbc.com/id/29961298/

No one turns her down, and getting on her show is like a meal ticket to stardom and fame.

Yeah I heard that about Oprah... We also have *gasp* tv programs here in finland... Maybe Oprah was not a good example, but other tv talk shows are since people are always going to be biased in watching one or another...

Also, depending on the age group you want to target, it better market in the next GI Joe movie than in Oprah or Conan O'Brian (which btw is HUGE in finland *sigh*) :P

christexaport

2009-09-18, 07:45

I don't think Nokia needs much help selling devices in Finland, do they? I'm sure they lead that market. The N900 will get its fair share of TV spots and all, but the question is about the US market. Once the device launches and is available, what sort of exposure will Nokia provide to the US? This is the ONLY place I have been where Nokia is a nobody, but only because they don't announce themselves in any way.

And the reason I brought up Oprah can be seen by watching those videos on the link I gave earlier. She speaks, the US listens. She said we need to stop eating beef once, and the US beef markets fell so low, it was a catastrophe, and the meat producers sued her. She has PULL in the US.
http://www.cnn.com/US/9801/21/oprah.beef/

UCOMM

2009-09-18, 07:46

@hangloose

tv? shouldn't you be out trying to hoon your ford escorts into snowdrifts and be busy eating lutefisk

you guys have no time for tv

christexaport

2009-09-18, 07:52

UCOMM

2009-09-18, 07:54

Do you mean Americans?! Not all of us live near snow. I live in Texas. It gets hot at night. Must be talking to the Finn... LOL But do they have Ford Escorts? We hate those cars in America. Embarrassing

unfortunately we don't get the nice fords they have in europe

ford focus rs how i long for you; 300hp fwd and no torque steer? its magic i tell you magic!

christexaport

2009-09-18, 08:33

I'll stick to Honda and BMW. But Ford is coming on strong. Just don't like American cars as much as German and Japanese.

qole

2009-09-18, 08:43

quole, that works to get the geeks in your corner, but not to get the mainstream users to get the device.

christe*, you're right. Nobody in the "mainstream" shares cool videos with their friends on Facebook or Twitter. Only "geeks" do that.

*well, if you call me quole, I'll call you christe ;)

HangLoose

2009-09-18, 12:22

@hangloose

tv? shouldn't you be out trying to hoon your ford escorts into snowdrifts and be busy eating lutefisk

you guys have no time for tv

hehe actually I was talking about tv/movies over there in North America... Here we actually do this kind of stuff since its very hard to watch Dr Phill, The Bachelor [insert-stupid-theme-here] or whatever canned program was just subtitled from there :P

A person cant watch Dr. Phill in winter time over here... Winter is already harsh and with Dr Phill... :(:(:(

Snoshrk

2009-09-18, 12:40

icebox

2009-09-18, 12:59

Yeah, give one to Mircea Badea (romanians know :) ) to smash it on his desk...

kenny

2009-09-18, 13:18

....... Hope it increases (buzz in the US on TV) once the Maemo Summit comes down.
Don't hold your breath.
The American way isn't the Nokia way.

christexaport

2009-09-18, 15:08

christe*, you're right. Nobody in the "mainstream" shares cool videos with their friends on Facebook or Twitter. Only "geeks" do that.

*well, if you call me quole, I'll call you christe ;)

You got me there, QOLE! ;) But I think being in America, the biggest thing that sells cellphones here is TV exposure and media coverage, not viral videos, for the mainstream. Going viral won't get people to ignore the devices in the carrier stores. Apple, Palm, and Blackberry have great TV exposure here. I counted 40 some odd TV commercials and news coverage mentions just in a few hours one day last year. The "going viral" thing works great, but it didn't do much for the N95 with the Symbian-Guru "Hi, I'm an N95! Oh hi, I'm an iPhone!" YouTube videos.

Fact is, in the US, consumers hear about a phone and ask the carrier if they have it. That's it. The mainstream consumer will consider it another Euro phone we won't get. But put it on Oprah and see what happens. No one cared about Kindles until she touted them on her show, and now they're considered a standard for ebooks.

I consider Oprah one of the top 5 most powerful women in the world, and I'm not alone. She's a self made billionaire and the first Black female billionaire. Her respect is unprecedented, and she has PULL! I'm surprised you guys don't know how big an N900 on her show would be. All she's got to say is "your carriers won't have this phone, but you can get it from Amazon or Best Buy" and watch the registers start chinging full of cash.

And if Oprah's influence isn't enough, check this out.
http://www.cnn.com/US/9801/21/oprah.beef/

She IS the voice of Americans! Women love her, and do whatever she says, and she gets wives to influence husbands that (lying) don't admit watching her show.

ysss

2009-09-18, 15:19

Somebody make an Oprah's book club applet already!

klinglerware

2009-09-18, 16:02

But put it on Oprah and see what happens. No one cared about Kindles until she touted them on her show, and now they're considered a standard for ebooks.

She IS the voice of Americans! Women love her, and do whatever she says, and she gets wives to influence husbands that (lying) don't admit watching her show.

Of course Oprah has tremendous pull, nobody is denying that.

But, Oprah is speaking for the mainstream consumer. You have to convince her that this n900 is a mainstream device that is more useful than what people already have. With the Kindle, Oprah or a marketer can tout how you can easily download any book and start reading instantly--the fact that you don't have to schlep to the book store or wait for your Amazon order to arrive or have a bunch of books in one portable device is naturally going to be appealing to a lot of people.

The n900 looks to be an awesome device. Most of us on this forum have a lot of experience using Maemo already, so you won't have to convince us of anything--we know what it can and can't do, and the positives outweigh the negatives for us. But is it mass consumer-ready? If you read the posts in other forums from other techie early adopter types without experience with the Nokia tablets, even many of them are taking a wait-and-see approach with questions like, "what will the reviews say?", "will there be apps for it?", "will it be subsidized by my carrier?", "will it even work on my carrier?", "I just bought an iPhone 3GS, why should I break my contract for this?".

If the early adopters are asking these often legitimate questions, imagine having to convince a regular consumer of the value of an n900. As has been argued many times, there is a resistance to buying unlocked phones in the US because (1) a lot of people don't know it's possible, (2) for people not on GSM networks, it really isn't possible, and (3) subsidized phones offer tangible value, while the value afforded by an unlocked phone just isn't relevant to many people. The cell phone network in the US isn't the greatest, even compared to some developing countries. Outside metro areas, people buy the network that actually works best for where they live, rather than the phone. Most of the time, that network is going to be Verizon. Since Nokia probably won't release a CDMA version of the n900, much of Oprah's middle America target demo won't switch to the n900 even if they liked looks of the phone, simply because of network availability concerns.

Finally, anecdotal evidence (i.e., me looking at my "hipster/hipster wannabe" office mates and friends) makes me think that the majority of the consumer-oriented demographic that would like this phone already have their blackberries and iPhones and are probably locked to their contracts. That will make trying to convince them that the Nokia n900 will be better than their current devices for stuff like enterprise/office communications capabilities (blackberries) or having millions of apps at the ready (iPhone) that much more difficult, especially when the n900 may not necessarily be ready to compete with a blackberry or an iPhone on their turf.

qole

2009-09-18, 17:34

The multi-year contract slavery thing in North America is going to be a big barrier for any new phone. Market penetration will be slow as people are forced to ride out two year contracts with incompatible carriers that they signed two weeks before the N900 went on sale.

By the time the Early Adopter / Technophile buzz has made the N900 "known" in the North American market, hopefully Nokia will have other Maemo devices to offer.

I really do believe that word of mouth and the influence of thought / style leaders is as powerful as any TV ad campaign. Put Maemo devices into the hands of the right people (tech-savvy influencers), and just let them use them and carry them around for a few weeks. That's your best bet.

HangLoose

2009-09-18, 18:14

christexaport

2009-09-18, 19:05

@ klinglerware,
All you have to do is convince Oprah its the future. She is savvy as hell. Let me do the selling, and get on her show. Her reach is unmatched, far greater than Top Gear (one of my faves, though. He's so funny, too). Nokia needs to do more to attract women, as Apple does. Oprah is the role model of all women in America. They all watch her, and if you want a woman in your life, you might have to watch her too. She's not bad at all for guys, either.

The questions the consumers may have are something I could easily answer with the device in my hand. Just let them use it. I promise you, the American users grew up with Windows 95 and AOL. The N900 IS that experience, and they'll feel familiar as soon as they use the web. The situation with apps is simple. Debian Linux isn't new, so many apps already exist. Open source means more will come, most will be free, and whatever the people want defines what gets ported. As for carriers and subsidies, get the phone on Oprah and carriers will jump to offer it.

The issue of the carrier compatibility is moot after the iPhone's success. A good marketing effort will attract buyers regardless. Apple sucked plenty Blackberry WinMo and Palm users when it came out. We just need a visible marketing push. When will we see THAT happen in the US is my problem. We need help, and Nokia has to use its head here instead of us sounding defeated like we can't overcome somethink Apple has. If Apple can, I will is my way of thinking. Maybe a more confident attitude from Nokia would help as well.

christexaport

2009-09-18, 19:07

klinglerware, is your name a combination of David Klingler and Andre Ware? They were two college QB's that were popular rivals in the 90's. If not, that's a big coincidence.

nilchak

2009-09-18, 19:20

Somebody make an Oprah's book club applet already!

Aha ! Good idea, maybe then she will care to carry it on her show.:)

klinglerware

2009-09-20, 03:20

Interesting discussion, everyone.

@ Christexaport

I share your enthusiasm about the tremendous potential of the n900. But, remember that as the intro device for maemo 5, the n900 represents only stage 4 of Nokia's 5 stage plan for positioning maemo as a platform that would garner widespread consumer acceptance. This is probably why Nokia is being so low-key about the launch, and possibly why Nokia is not in a hurry to get carrier agreements on subsidization.

I think a lot of us were surprised that telephony was included in the stage 4 device (many of us were expecting it in stage 5). But in retrospect, the decision to introduce the phone capability in the n900 makes a lot of sense in the context of the roadmap. If stage 5 is supposed to culminate in the uber-devices meant for widespread consumer adoption, then Nokia would have to introduce telephony in stage 4 in order to iron out the kinks. That way, the stage 5 device will have a more polished phone experience for users that are expecting the device to be, well, a cell phone with all the usability and features they have come to expect.

I think a lot of people may be frustrated by Nokia's seemingly tepid marketing support for the device, but it does appear that Nokia is making a huge bet on maemo being a large part of the future of the company. In that light, it is not surprising at all that Nokia is proceeding very cautiously--I don't think they want to excessively hype a device that isn't meant to be the be all and end all.

I think qole is right on this, word of mouth, enthusiasm and feedback from the early adopters (i.e., us) will lead to more widespread consumer adoption when the stage 5 devices come along. This is not just in terms of telling all our friends about the n900, but it also goes for participating in the maemo community: as with the earlier maemo stages, even regular users can provide input in terms of what applications they want, what's working and what isn't. The developers in the community through their dedication and talent show us what is possible. The community thus ends up improving and polishing up maemo even further.

With all that being said, I am still very excited about the n900. I think we are all going to have a lot of fun with our devices over the next couple of years.

Finally, as for Oprah, I think she is now hawking the T-mobile myTouch--it looks like it was on the roster in one of her famous giveaway shows. That also goes to show what a big bet T-mobile is placing on Android.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/10/save-100-on-a-t-mobile-mytouch-3g-thanks-to-oprah/

jayhule

2009-09-20, 04:10

Oprah is a huge influence here, but you won't get the N900 on that show because of the hardware, or benefit of price or locked/unlocked etc.

It WILL get on the show there is an application that this community can write, software/App, (this is open source) that benefits everyone or directly has a link to what Oprah believes in. And of course the software would be FREE for everyone. Then she will get it and show everyone that "look this is what the Maemo community made" and then of course the N900 will be used and will be featured and showed.

so to summarize (because I'm not the best writer sorry) I'm saying that the way to get the phone on Oprah show or any other influential shows with pull in certain demographics (and the mass markets) is to have an app or software because of the community and "free" nature of the OS featured on these shows. Then by default the N900 will be featured.

The tech shows will do their part because they are for techies, but these other shows won't take their time to highlight just because of megapixels or processors.

linuxeventually

2009-09-20, 04:19

I remember the cameo of the Nokia 770 in the Harold and Kumar movies. I was sad when they used it as a phone in the second one though -_-

daveb70

2009-09-20, 04:39

...or directly has a link to what Oprah believes in.

That is the truest and scariest aspect of Oprah. It plagues Hollywood in general- America worships those fine upstanding people way too much. Now not are they only mere actors/actresses (most pretty poor at that) but we've somehow allowed them to become political and social experts that the sheep flock to for nourishment and direction.

And yet, I agree- get an N900 on her show and you're nearly golden. KFCs were packed when she had an online link to a coupon for a free sample of their new grilled chicken. Their restaurants were flooded with people, and KFC halted their promotion due to lack of product, then went and stuck it to the consumer with some other lame offer you had to submit via writing to get- all because of so much popularity due to being on Oprah's show. Granted, the people jamming the KFC joints likely consider it "fine dining". I drove by and laughed.

Yes, give something free with the device. Put some special code inside that when it first boots and reveals the code, they enter it on a web site and Blam-o! Free something that everyone wants. Nokia could partner with a restaurant chain, or an online movie mogul, or an airline. It's too late in the season for an amusement/theme park joint promotion.

And Nokia could even create a Limited Edition version of the N900 with exclusive apps or perhaps some ebooks of Oprah included within, a special Oprah-ized set of headphones or carrying case. Oh yeah- some blingy case would do the trick so all the ladies can show their friends how unique and special they are by having it.

Think Willy Wonka...the golden ticket...run with it.

As for the original topic question, I say yes it will. It may not burst out of the canon as fast and far as we'd like it to, but it will explode and shower the masses more and more over time until they can't avoid seeing the flash and glow and say "ooooooh, awwwwww" and if nothing else, it may just make them a Nokia customer even if not an N900 owner.

NvyUs

2009-09-20, 05:02

Let's skip Oprah...

Send one to the guys @ Top Gear (BBC version) set up to use the accelerometers / remote camera to r/c a full size supercar.

I can see it now: The STIG running the test track from the grandstand via the N900....

:D

Jeremy Clarkson says "Some say he is remote controlled by a n900, some say he got his brain reprogrammed using maemo 5 after a accident , All we know is hes named the STIG"
i can just see it now on next seasons TG episode 1 its going to be epic :D

kenny

2009-09-20, 16:17

Nokia is the world's largest manufacturer of cell phones. The vast spread of Nokia's market is almost everywhere except North America. Nokia has never played well with the U.S. carriers and their procedures. A few Nokia smartphones are released with U.S. carrier 3G frequencies (the NAM models.) These are sold unlocked on the open market. Occasionally, there is a carrier subsidized version. Recently, in typical baffling Nokia style, they announced that the N900 will remain un-tampered by any carrier. T-Mobile U.S. has no plans to subsidize it (at this time.) The device and it's Maemo OS are the 5th step of a planned 6 step program and as such, Nokia still excuses the N900 as an exploratory device and as a geek computer that now also happens to include a phone. There is no denying that it is a well appointed and potentially powerful unit. Nokia is charging top dollar for it.
.
I would imagine that Nokia is fully aware that the N900 probably ain't going to sell real well in America.
And perhaps they just don't care.
What other handset manufacturer has the ways and means to refuse to play ball with the U.S. but can still see a long term vision carried through with it's original purpose remaining intact?

jcompagner

2009-09-20, 16:50

"will it be subsidized by my carrier?", "will it even work on my carrier?"

I really pity all those people who live in that Market where those questions are really questions...

Where did it go wrong? Because of the market really must be completely open? Not regulated at all by the government?

I am really glad that i dont live there if we talk about the mobile market, because the 2 questions you ask above are not even questions at all in the country i live (The Netherlands)
They are both "of course"

I never buy a phone from the carrier.. that is a very stupid move because those are mostly branded. And that is most of the time not things like that and this is disabled. But just some pictures and some apps in the firmware. But then suddenly i cant upgrade to the firmwares Nokia sends out, so i will never buy one from the operator.

But thats not a big deal, there are so many independent phone providers that will sell the phone subsidized. And then the question is never will it work for the provider i want? Because which ever provider i choose it will always work (gsm or hsdpa)

Thats why i call free market and choice..

Back on this topic about the N900 making it or not, i do think Nokia will be surprised how well it will do. But they should market it way better yes i agree with that. They have gold in there hands and they should exploit that to the maximum.

I do here are lot of stuff, but it is so expensive.. What?? expensive?? It is cheap!! My current phone (E90) was 800 euro's when it was introduced! And if you compare it to the other high end phones from nokia N97 (mini), X6 they are all not really way cheaper.. So why are there so many complaining about that fact?

Faz

2009-09-20, 17:46

Jeremy Clarkson says "Some say he is remote controlled by a n900, some say he got his brain reprogrammed using maemo 5 after a accident , All we know is hes named the STIG"
i can just see it now on next seasons TG episode 1 its going to be epic :D

LOL!!

How about a bombshell ending...?

Faz

2009-09-20, 17:52

...I share your enthusiasm about the tremendous potential of the n900. But, remember that as the intro device for maemo 5, the n900 represents only stage 4 of Nokia's 5 stage plan for positioning maemo as a platform that would garner widespread consumer acceptance. This is probably why Nokia is being so low-key about the launch, and possibly why Nokia is not in a hurry to get carrier agreements on subsidization.

I think a lot of us were surprised that telephony was included in the stage 4 device (many of us were expecting it in stage 5). But in retrospect, the decision to introduce the phone capability in the n900 makes a lot of sense in the context of the roadmap. If stage 5 is supposed to culminate in the uber-devices meant for widespread consumer adoption, then Nokia would have to introduce telephony in stage 4 in order to iron out the kinks. That way, the stage 5 device will have a more polished phone experience for users that are expecting the device to be, well, a cell phone with all the usability and features they have come to expect.

I think a lot of people may be frustrated by Nokia's seemingly tepid marketing support for the device, but it does appear that Nokia is making a huge bet on maemo being a large part of the future of the company. In that light, it is not surprising at all that Nokia is proceeding very cautiously--I don't think they want to excessively hype a device that isn't meant to be the be all and end all.

I think qole is right on this, word of mouth, enthusiasm and feedback from the early adopters (i.e., us) will lead to more widespread consumer adoption when the stage 5 devices come along. This is not just in terms of telling all our friends about the n900, but it also goes for participating in the maemo community: as with the earlier maemo stages, even regular users can provide input in terms of what applications they want, what's working and what isn't. The developers in the community through their dedication and talent show us what is possible. The community thus ends up improving and polishing up maemo even further.

With all that being said, I am still very excited about the n900. I think we are all going to have a lot of fun with our devices over the next couple of years.

Well put!!

qgil

2009-09-20, 19:39

I have never had a nokia device that had many incremental updates whether it could do it OTA/network or not.

Please don't try to read between the lines as I'm only trying to bring some memory back:

- The N800 was released with Bora (Maemo 3) and user could upgrade to Chinook (4) and Diablo (4.1) with several maintenance releases in between.

- The N810 was released with Chinook. You refer only to Diablo but it was already a Maemo 4 update.

barry99705

2009-09-20, 20:29

I think the only people in the US that will ever see these phones are the members of this forum. The other 99.99% of the US will have never heard of it. I had my eye on this phone, but I won't spend more for a phone than I can for a laptop, that's just stupid.

Laughing Man

2009-09-20, 20:50

It's just the result of convergence. And if you want to get into it early you have to pay a high price. It's only in the future that prices will drop and convergence gets us to the point where maybe laptops aren't needed anymore or even made.

heavyt

2009-09-20, 21:15

epoch24

2009-09-20, 21:16

I have to say in the few days that i started this thread I have learnt a lot of things. I was an avid Nokia fan for a long time till the 6600 came out to be precise after that Nokia just started going, well nowhere really, there were a lot of players introduced and the market suddenly became very very open.

All things considered you have to understand that Nokia although was pretty much around it never really made a big impact in the last few years, sure the N95 was the talk of the town but that was around the time the iphone was released so all the hype suddenly went luke warm. But now suffice to say things are different and sure the North American market is not Nokia's key party place, they are surely getting there. I think what Nokias strongest position is at this time is that they have a fully functional vertical OS, some thing not a lot of manufacturers can boast about. Sure the Iphone has its own thing, Palm has webOS but how many else. Samsung is still working on a new concept and is rolling out WInmo and android powered devices in the mean time, even the high and mighty Microsoft is going to ditch Winmo in the few years to the run up to project PINK. HTC is well dishing out anything and everything and companies like LG and sonyericcsson have no clue what they are doing(Xperia really!!!), even the once great Motorola has coloquially ridden it high horse on the RAZR and finds itself in a position where they have no design or software prowess anymore.

This is where I think Nokia is going to shine, they know that its all doom and gloom over symbian, I mean sure symbian is good but its only good for low or mid range level devices but with convergence the next big thing, Symbian doesnt stand a chance. Maemo on the other hand is way different in this regard, they have already tested it on other more complex devices and suffice to say it did work, they are porting it now to a mobile phone device, and already people are giving it favourable reviews. Maybe its still early and even though we have not seen a lot of buzz on the more mass marketing segments, I am pretty sure that Nokia is rooting hard for the N900 to succeed otherwise they would have never released the N97 mini, which is a sure shot N series suicide. Its just a matter of time now, I have a feeling the N900 WILL make it.

UCOMM

2009-09-20, 22:19

Do you really think that is probable, laptops not needed or made in the coming future? :D

of course

ask yourself, how many people have large desktop computers anymore? the number is dwindling

eventually we'll all move from laptops to "mobile computers"

MountainX

2009-09-20, 22:37

Recently, in typical baffling Nokia style, they announced that the N900 will remain un-tampered by any carrier.

Seems that may have been a misunderstanding. See this:

http://conversations.nokia.com/2009/09/11/maemo-and-n900-many-customization-points-for-operators/

This week, there have been a number of speculative stories suggesting that Nokia will not allow for operator customization of Maemo devices. Seems a few people are getting ahead of themselves. As we have said over the past couple of weeks, our plan with Maemo is to focus on the consumer experience – integrating applications and services from Nokia, our broad community of developers and publishers and, of course, from our operator customers. While we have not announced immediate plans to offer an operator variant for the N900, there are many customization points for operators on the N900. It would be absolutely incorrect to assume that we will not offer operators the ability to tailor future Maemo devices to suit their needs.

My feeling is that things are not as pessimistic as kenny seems to think.

bugelrex

2009-09-20, 22:39

IF the battery can last an entire day with moderate/slightly above average usage (on 3G without relying on wifi access) then the N900 will be a definite success.. no doubt!

christexaport

2009-09-20, 23:10

I think I put the carrier customization rumors to rest awhile back with this:
http://www.symbian-freak.com/news/009/09/nokia_will_allow_operator_customizations_for_maemo .htm

christexaport

2009-09-20, 23:12

On the laptop vs handheld arguement, its really an ARM vs ATOM/x86 war. The next generation Intel mobile chips will be more competitive, but this will play as big a part as any in how far laptops can go with handhelds coming on strong.

gerbick

2009-09-21, 01:05

The lack of advertising scares me. I don't know if it's over-confidence or lack of confidence.

I've actually seen/read more about the Chinese Lenovo oPhone than the N900 - well, not until very recently that is. But I'd love to see this "pimped" just right.

I've seen mention of Oprah; she didn't fare too well with the Pontiac G6. In fact, it darn near emasculated that product. And we all know what happened to Pontiac anyway - dead brand now.

The viral vids are cool, but they seem to hit a core target audience that's already connected and thus the N900 isn't that much of a mystery to them. And the earlier commentary about that Maemo 5 isn't prepped to be fully mainstream and Maemo 6 is... it makes me wonder why buy this iteration and just wait for the next, more mainstream version.

In fact, why would anybody buy into this iteration if that's the case?

The whole early adopter stuff in this economy isn't always going to equal success. The N900 has a lot of the right things in place, I'd just love to see its direction a bit more concrete so close to a possible release - mid-October still, right?

Hurry it up Nokia. I want to see what you have planned.

Laughing Man

2009-09-21, 01:13

of course

ask yourself, how many people have large desktop computers anymore? the number is dwindling

eventually we'll all move from laptops to "mobile computers"

I don't think it'll be purely mobile computers. Maybe mobile computers + docks. Unless things are integrated with us by then.

christexaport

2009-09-21, 01:41

ysss

2009-09-21, 02:40

For products in this category, it has to come down to its features:expectations match to the customer's to have a lasting appeal.

All the hype and grand advertisements in the world can only make a batch of early adopters pick the phone up.. to have the staying power to last longer it has to stand up to 'reviewers' scrutiny. In this case, the 'reviewers' may be a 'geek' somewhere who makes personal recommendation to his close friends about gadget purchases or someone who works in IT purchasing department.

Laughing Man

2009-09-21, 03:09

No docks. More technology will arise to use your TV as a monitor for your phone wirelessly, I'd imagine.

And I agree with most of what Gerbick said. (except for the G6 issue. It was the economy. Most of the people that'd buy G6s were broke and no credit was available. Pontiac was an ok brand but GM has too many irons in the fire

I meant docks in the most generic form. Basically you could have access to charge+ display/audio out + maybe input in. Not specifically a Zune HD or iPod dock (ugh while I see how useful they are I just hate how they're stuck to one platform). Why not just have a "dock" with audio out plugs + charging capability. Though I guess in their cases, it comes with proprietary information to control said device.

Munk

2009-09-21, 04:31

freppas

2009-09-21, 07:07

What Nokia marketing ***** came up with the idea of basically saying "This is good but it's not as good as what's coming next". It's basically saying, "DON'T BUY THIS ONE, WAIT". Who wants to own the "stepping stone" device? It already sounds obsolete and outdated.

And then again what ***** said, or has unintentionally given the notion, we're stopping at Maemo 6. After that, it's a dead OS.

I intellectually know that neither of these are true. But, both items can really be read that way or has the ability of being interpreted through some of that definition.

Has Apple ever said OS 3.0 is a stepping stone in our evolution to OS 4.0 which will be better than sliced bread. No, because it would get people yearning for OS 4.0 and skipping OS 3.0 in favor of waiting.

I think it was a bit of expectations management gone awry. What he basically wanted to say was YES: great device, cool features, new and exciting OS, BUT: not yet as developed for say businesses etc. as symbian (or insert a cautionary term of your own choosing). Sadly what it sounds like is: see this device? well we're coming out with a better one at some point in the future!

This coupled with the fact that the people who were presenting the Nokia products were perhaps not the coolest cats in town. No offense to them, they're definitely great at their jobs but honestly steve jobs is FUN to watch, he sells. The presenters that Nokia were using lacked a bit of the charisma of jobs.

This gave the whole launch the air of being a bit "older" than it should have been.