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mhammo
2009-09-21, 21:28
These are my impressions after using the N900 for about an hour at the Nokia store in Chicago, IL.

I am not a current Nokia user and have no current Nokia devices. I have never used any of the tablet devices. The last Nokie device I used was several years ago. So, my thoughts and opnions are more from a Nokia Neophyte point of view.

Having said the above, I am a techy and know my way around computers, software, and smartphones and really like Nokia products.

Fit and Finish
In a word, fantastic. No question this is a high quality device that is extremely well made. The screen is beautiful and very easy to read. Expanding the device to reveal the keyboard has nice, smooth, action and a solid thunk when opening and closing with no wiggles or niggles. It is a solid feeling device and feels impressive. It is a little heavier than I expected, but perfectly acceptable. It does not feel cheap like many devices on the market.

Keyboard
The manufacturing quality of the keyboard is spot on, however, the feel and spacing, at least for me, was not optimal. I have had better keyboards. Maybe it's because I have been using a BB for a while now and I am spoiled in that regard. The keys have no gaps between them, basically they touch each other so it is harder to tell where one begins and ends. It is also too easy to accidentally hit the wrong key. The action was ok, better than a lot, but has major room for improvement. I prefer a little more spring or click to the keys. The space bar, not good, why they put it off to the right I cannot imagine, wrong move. I'm sure I could eventually get use to the keyboard, even the space bar, over time, but I was really hoping for a better experience there.

Dashboard
Very cool and polished. Nice swooping action when you switch from one screen to the next. The floating windows are cool. Response is snappy and smooth. Probably the best dashboard implementation I have ever seen or experienced. Very well done in this regard.

Applications
I am primarily focusing on things like Twitter, Facebook, MySpace, Web mail, Digg, etc. Wonderful integration with the desktop. Very easy to access once on the desktop and very cool that they update in real time. A little disappointing that there is no integration of these apps, rather they are just the same applications you access via your desktop or laptop. I was hoping for a little more of an application experience that links them all together. For example, let me post to one or more at the same with the same message. The current approach I have to copy/paste or retype for each app I have open. It would be nice to have something that consolidates them all. Perhaps that is what the community is for, but it would have been another ace if Nokia provided this out of the box.

MMS won't be in the initial release, bad, for me. I like that functionality. Seems strange they would not one up the iPhone on this one (since iPhone still does not have this either). Failing grade for not having this.

Application usage - only designed for landscape mode. You cannot use the applications in portrait mode. To me another failing grade. I should be able to view the apps in either mode, the way I want to see them. Landscape tends to force 2 handed usage, sometimes I just want to do a quick update or see something very quickly, it really sucks that I have to flip the device to the side and open the keyboard just to do this. Another fail for me.

Phone - unfortunately, does NOT play to Nokia's strength. I know, they have been clear about N900 being a computer in your hand, and not really a phone, but come on, your core strength is the phone, play it up. This is the only application that works in portrait mode, and oddly, not any other mode. So again, I cannot decide how I want to use it, Nokia has decided for me. The other really annoying thing was no soft key or hard key to get to the phone app. E.g. if you are on the desktop, it is a minimum of 3 clicks to get to the phone. You have go to the main desktop, go to apps, then find phone then click it, then it automatically flips the screen to portrait and you have to close the keyboard and turn it right side up to use it. This is a HUGE disappointment to me.

Overall Impression
I was truly excited and hopeful that this was going to be THE one kick *** combined device that had everything I wanted. At least for this initial release, and for me, I am thinking it's not going to be, at least in it's initial release.

So, ultimately, while it pains me to say this, I will probably be skipping this version. Maybe in 6 months an update will fix some of these things and then I will make the jump. Or, perhaps I will just have to wait until Maemo 6 devices area available.

M

UCOMM
2009-09-21, 21:35
i was under the impression you could make a

1)link to the phone app on a desktop

2)simply flip to portrat view to dial

3)i could swear i've seen the dialer in landscape in a screen shot

http://www.mobileshop.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Nokia-N900-previewed-in-depth.jpg

as far as the keyboard goes, i suppose its "better" that the space is closer to the thumb as its something commonly used, but im not sure about that

i'm heading downtown tomorrow i'll have a go at it as well

sachin007
2009-09-21, 21:36
These are my impressions after using the N900 for about an hour at the Nokia store in Chicago, IL.

I am not a current Nokia user and have no current Nokia devices. I have never used any of the tablet devices. The last Nokie device I used was several years ago. So, my thoughts and opnions are more from a Nokia Neophyte point of view.

Having said the above, I am a techy and know my way around computers, software, and smartphones and really like Nokia products.

Fit and Finish
In a word, fantastic. No question this is a high quality device that is extremely well made. The screen is beautiful and very easy to read. Expanding the device to reveal the keyboard has nice, smooth, action and a solid thunk when opening and closing with no wiggles or niggles. It is a solid feeling device and feels impressive. It is a little heavier than I expected, but perfectly acceptable. It does not feel cheap like many devices on the market.

Keyboard
The manufacturing quality of the keyboard is spot on, however, the feel and spacing, at least for me, was not optimal. I have had better keyboards. Maybe it's because I have been using a BB for a while now and I am spoiled in that regard. The keys have no gaps between them, basically they touch each other so it is harder to tell where one begins and ends. It is also too easy to accidentally hit the wrong key. The action was ok, better than a lot, but has major room for improvement. I prefer a little more spring or click to the keys. The space bar, not good, why they put it off to the right I cannot imagine, wrong move. I'm sure I could eventually get use to the keyboard, even the space bar, over time, but I was really hoping for a better experience there.

Dashboard
Very cool and polished. Nice swooping action when you switch from one screen to the next. The floating windows are cool. Response is snappy and smooth. Probably the best dashboard implementation I have ever seen or experienced. Very well done in this regard.

Applications
I am primarily focusing on things like Twitter, Facebook, MySpace, Web mail, Digg, etc. Wonderful integration with the desktop. Very easy to access once on the desktop and very cool that they update in real time. A little disappointing that there is no integration of these apps, rather they are just the same applications you access via your desktop or laptop. I was hoping for a little more of an application experience that links them all together. For example, let me post to one or more at the same with the same message. The current approach I have to copy/paste or retype for each app I have open. It would be nice to have something that consolidates them all. Perhaps that is what the community is for, but it would have been another ace if Nokia provided this out of the box.

MMS won't be in the initial release, bad, for me. I like that functionality. Seems strange they would not one up the iPhone on this one (since iPhone still does not have this either). Failing grade for not having this.

Application usage - only designed for landscape mode. You cannot use the applications in portrait mode. To me another failing grade. I should be able to view the apps in either mode, the way I want to see them. Landscape tends to force 2 handed usage, sometimes I just want to do a quick update or see something very quickly, it really sucks that I have to flip the device to the side and open the keyboard just to do this. Another fail for me.

Phone - unfortunately, does NOT play to Nokia's strength. I know, they have been clear about N900 being a computer in your hand, and not really a phone, but come on, your core strength is the phone, play it up. This is the only application that works in portrait mode, and oddly, not any other mode. So again, I cannot decide how I want to use it, Nokia has decided for me. The other really annoying thing was no soft key or hard key to get to the phone app. E.g. if you are on the desktop, it is a minimum of 3 clicks to get to the phone. You have go to the main desktop, go to apps, then find phone then click it, then it automatically flips the screen to portrait and you have to close the keyboard and turn it right side up to use it. This is a HUGE disappointment to me.

Overall Impression
I was truly excited and hopeful that this was going to be THE one kick *** combined device that had everything I wanted. At least for this initial release, and for me, I am thinking it's not going to be, at least in it's initial release.

So, ultimately, while it pains me to say this, I will probably be skipping this version. Maybe in 6 months an update will fix some of these things and then I will make the jump. Or, perhaps I will just have to wait until Maemo 6 devices area available.

M

The phone can be used in both landscape and portrait mode. Also there is a setting where you can automatically make the phone launch if you hold the device in the portrait mode.

Thanks for the review.

mhammo
2009-09-21, 21:42
The phone can be used in both landscape and portrait mode. Also there is a setting where you can automatically make the phone launch if you hold the device in the portrait mode.

Thanks for the review.

Yes, I saw the same screenshots and was disappointed that it would not go into either mode. I tried everything possible to get it to flip as did the rep at the store. He said he didn't think it would flip. And, it definitely would jump to portrait mode as soon as you clicked on the Phone icon, even if the phone was already in landscape mode.

Yes, you can add it to the desktop but that is still often several clicks away, depending on what screen you are already on.

M

qole
2009-09-21, 21:48
Yes, the phone interface flips back and forth between landscape and portrait. Earlier firmware had more trouble in this regard.

Surprised at your conclusion after reading the review. I thought you liked it overall. It seems you don't like the predominance of landscape mode and the fact there's no MMS support. You're not thrilled by the keyboard. Is that all?

ordxpres
2009-09-21, 22:02
Does Chicago store have one on display to test drive or did you have to beg them?

legendemeritus
2009-09-21, 22:12
Excellent review, thank you! If what you say about the phone mode is confirmed, that's a huge mistake i my book. Yet it could probably be easily fixed with an update. My Amazon pre-order will remain...

zerojay
2009-09-21, 22:45
Phone can be opened in any orientation.

Those of you who, like me, want to integrate several websites together and post the same things to multiple places will want an account on Pixelpipe right away. The N900 add-on for Pixelpipe support is already out allowing sharing photos to multiple services. Status messages can be sent via Google Talk or XMPP. Sign up and try it out.

skalogre
2009-09-21, 22:48
Phone can be opened in any orientation.

Those of you who, like me, want to integrate several websites together and post the same things to multiple places will want an account on Pixelpipe right away. The N900 add-on for Pixelpipe support is already out allowing sharing photos to multiple services. Status messages can be sent via Google Talk or XMPP. Sign up and try it out.

Pixelpipe really is a great service. I use it with my N97 all the time; can selectively post to Vox, Twitter, GTalk, Facebook, Myspace, Ovi Share et.c. Having it on the N900 is a major plus.

dansus
2009-09-21, 23:00
As said before, Pixelpipe will do your bidding plus numerous others soon after launch.

I wouldnt judge anything until the final firmware is released.

nilchak
2009-09-21, 23:12
I am just getting back from the Nokia NYC Store. I dont know whats up with Nokia - but they have locked the N900 out of view in a back side window on the 2nd floor - away from view.

They wouldnt let me even touch it whille its off. Suposedly the prototype N900 was being viewed and being blogged negativelyh that Nokia decided to stop any hand-on till they get the final product and the N900 is released.

What a dissapointment !
and I dont know how true this may be, but the guy who mentioned about all this said final sell date will be in November. I dont want to give much credence.

qole
2009-09-21, 23:32
nilchak: I wonder why they've locked away the NYC N900 but not the Chicago one? Sounds like a local decision, not a corporate one.

Laughing Man
2009-09-21, 23:42
Maybe they noticed that one had firmware issues or a hardware problem so maybe they didn't want customers to get a bad experience with it?

mhammo
2009-09-21, 23:42
The Chicago store folks were quite nice about it. It was not on display but I simply asked if they had one and they pulled it out from a "top secret area".

Glad to hear about Pixelpipe, that would certainly go a long way towards the integration I am looking for.

I did the like the device overall, but the fact that it is primarily designed to be used in landscape mode with the keyboard open, and the poor (in my opinion) feel of the keyboard, and lack of MMS is enough to make me wait.

I might still go for it after an update or two but not right away. I can only say that I was jones-ing for it before I test drove it, then was like, well, ok, I think I can wait, after I test drove it. I am sure it will still be a great device, especially if you already love Nokia devices. It is clear this device is an internet device first, and a phone second. To me, they should be at least equal.

The phone part for me is very important because I am on the phone with a lot with customers and really need that part to be rock solid, simple and easy to get to. My other concern along these lines, which I don't know how will pan out, is battery life. Being a little bit of a road warrior, I have additional concerns that battery life will be a bit short due to the overall power of the device.

I guess I want my cake, crumbs, icing and all. I do look forward to future updates though and am sure Nokia will only continue to improve this and their future devices on this platform.

dansus
2009-09-21, 23:46
Sounds like you need a phone that does messaging well, rather than a MID that does phone.

The Blackberry or E72 is ideal for you, personally im looking for the later and the keyboard rocks for me. :)
.

Laughing Man
2009-09-21, 23:47
mhammo, from another thread in the n900 forum on battery life. It seems testers are getting anywhere from 11-12 hours with web+media usage. I was worried about battery life too since I traditionally carry seperate devices for that worry.

And the phone part..yeah that's weird but apparantly you are suppose to be able to use the phone in landscape mode and instantly turn it to call mode by switching it to portrait (I guess that's why they don't offer support for portrait apps?). Or is it more the motion that changes it over to phone mode (intended function) and not the actual orientation.

DannStarr
2009-09-22, 01:47
The phone part is of least importance to me (although I hope it follows suit with most previous Nokia's in that it holds a decent signal really well)

I mainly use mine for the data services and so I'm really looking forward to this device. I like how you say it's clearly an internet device first, and a phone second.... HOOORARRR!!

Bratag
2009-09-22, 02:08
If the phone part doesnt function well as a phone then I have to say that I will be disappointed. The purpose of the n900 to me is to replace several devices I carry. Not to make me carry another.

qole
2009-09-22, 02:35
The phone part is competent enough; it just isn't the point of the N900.

YoDude
2009-09-22, 02:36
Can I ask what you use MMS for that could not be accomplished via an e-mail from the device? Sending media to another phone that can't view/play e-mail attachments is all I can think of. Isn't the size of an MMS message limited as well?

YoDude
2009-09-22, 02:39
The phone part is competent enough; it just isn't the point of the N900.


Has anybody received a call while using the N900.? What happens to what you are viewing or the app you are working with? Are answer options available?

GeraldKo
2009-09-22, 02:48
I expect the phone part will be great. Isn't the heart of how good the phone is primarily (a) how well it gets and holds a signal and (b) how pleasantly audible you and the other party are? Am I missing something about what makes a great phone? It seems to me that the actual phone functions haven't been tested and reported on by any users yet, no? Judging from the cheap Nokia phones I've owned, and reports on Nokia's higher-end phones, I'll bet they nailed it.

(I very much appreciate your personal and objective review, mhammo, but I believe that your conclusion that it is hard to navigate to the phone function is just erroneous. I don't see what else you said that was actually negative about the phone function. To my mind, the only damning thing you said about the device was that the keyboard design was sub-optimal.)

misticjeff
2009-09-22, 03:16
and to me, "sub-optimal" just means "not yet used to it".... it goes without saying that if you're used to a 4 or 5 row keyboard and someone hands you a 3 row board, you'll have troubles. But... after about an hour of texting, you'll be cruising along fine.

timsamoff
2009-09-22, 03:29
Has anybody received a call while using the N900.? What happens to what you are viewing or the app you are working with? Are answer options available?
The phone UI appears and asks if you'd like to answer or ignore the call. Answering the call ceases the current operation. Hanging up continues the previous process. Ignoring closes the phone UI and continues with the process at hand.

Tim

jandmdickerson
2009-09-22, 03:38
Wow! Overall very positive review!! I am glad I got 1 day shipping on my n900. ;)

NvyUs
2009-09-22, 03:49
Wow! Overall very positive review!! I am glad I got 1 day shipping on my n900. ;)
me also just wish i knew when shipping was now, i can't wait to get my hands on this baby

Laughing Man
2009-09-22, 03:49
The phone UI appears and asks if you'd like to answer or ignore the call. Answering the call ceases the current operation. Hanging up continues the previous process. Ignoring closes the phone UI and continues with the process at hand.

Tim

How about after you hang up? Does it return to that window?

jaywhy13
2009-09-22, 03:59
Wow! Overall very positive review!! I am glad I got 1 day shipping on my n900. ;)

Be sure to let us know what you think. I'm yet to see a proper review on youtube for the N900.

timsamoff
2009-09-22, 04:02
How about after you hang up? Does it return to that window?

As I said...

The phone UI appears and asks if you'd like to answer or ignore the call. Answering the call ceases the current operation. Hanging up continues the previous process. Ignoring closes the phone UI and continues with the process at hand.

Tim

allnameswereout
2009-09-22, 04:31
Can I ask what you use MMS for that could not be accomplished via an e-mail from the device? Sending media to another phone that can't view/play e-mail attachments is all I can think of. Isn't the size of an MMS message limited as well?Sending multimedia to people who have a phone which supports MMS but not 3G (or has no 3G subscription or 3G data is too expensive).

allnameswereout
2009-09-22, 04:35
I expect the phone part will be great. Isn't the heart of how good the phone is primarily (a) how well it gets and holds a signal and (b) how pleasantly audible you and the other party are? Am I missing something about what makes a great phone?Stuff like addressbook integration, calendar integration, being able to pick GSM or 3G, and quickly navigating or using these programs in an intuitive way. Thats what quickly comes to my mind.

Having said that, from what I saw on video is that the N900 has a very intuitive way of keeping your contacts. Instead of sorting on protocols you sort on contacts and then decide the protocol. From IM to e-mail or SIP or GSM. :cool:

christexaport
2009-09-22, 04:50
Can I ask what you use MMS for that could not be accomplished via an e-mail from the device? Sending media to another phone that can't view/play e-mail attachments is all I can think of. Isn't the size of an MMS message limited as well?
Ask yourself this:
What percentage of mobile devices in the world CAN access email? What percentage of those devices have a data plan?

What percentage of mobile devices can send and receive MMS? What percentage of them have the service available?

Unless you have a smartphone or a Sidekick, you probably CAN'T receive emails on your device. Most carriers in developed countries allow unlimited or high amounts of messaging, which includes MMS, but meter data sent via email. MMS is limited, but the device and the network usually decides the file limitations, such as filetypes and size. My carrier's MMS system automatically resizes photos when sending, significantly saving data. Even the iPhone downsizes images when emailed from the device! So its like a forced MMS system.

MMS is about accessibility to more users and compatibility with most users as well.

I'm SO glad this review was written. It mirrors my expectations for the N900. I'll get one anyway because of the OS, not the ergonomics, but the phone is something we expect to be reliable and work, and it should've been a focus, not an afterthought. Suggesting the E71 over the N900 because of portrait support and messaging seems a little weak to me, like its an excuse to let the N900 off the hook. I really hope Nokia is taking the consumer demand for portrait support via ASR and better implementation of the phone app seriously and has an answer soon. The N900 has too much potential. We need it to perform up to expectations, even if they're based on imagination. (I mean that too.)

christexaport
2009-09-22, 04:55
The phone part is competent enough; it just isn't the point of the N900.

Let's use the device first as a primary device before saying that its competent. I don't think many will agree. And having the phone there means it IS the point! But I understand where you are coming from. I think this will be a big part of what Nokia and the community improves in the first few months of release.

GeraldKo
2009-09-22, 05:18
I'm SO glad this review was written. It mirrors my expectations for the N900. I'll get one anyway because of the OS, not the ergonomics, but the phone is something we expect to be reliable and work, and it should've been a focus, not an afterthought.

What makes you think the phone was just an afterthought and not a focus? (It seemed to me that the only thing the review said that supports that conclusion was that it took 3 steps to get to the phone function, which other users have said isn't the case.)

allnameswereout
2009-09-22, 05:45
@ YoDude no the size of a MMS is not limited by the standard but providers can define their own maximum, and max 300 kB is recommended, according to Wikipedia.

Most carriers in developed countries allow unlimited or high amounts of messaging, which includes MMSWTF? No way.

I have to pay 10 EUR for unlimited SMS. I'm pretty damn sure in developed countries SMS are not free.

MMS is not free here either. Can't even get unlimited amount of these. This while NL is one of the cheapest countries to use voice and data!

And, if you don't have a data plan, you even pay for receiving a MMS. This is because the data received is downloaded by using the WAP or HTTP protocol, and this costs data.

MMS is about accessibility to more users and compatibility with most users as well.Backwards compatibility indeed.

When you'd now receive a MMS with the N900 it will look like garbage because the SMS contains a binary encoded URL to the data.

qole
2009-09-22, 05:58
The phone UI appears and asks if you'd like to answer or ignore the call. Answering the call ceases the current operation. Hanging up continues the previous process. Ignoring closes the phone UI and continues with the process at hand.

Tim

And if, hypothetically, you are at a party, using your N900 as a jukebox, and it is sitting on top of a big stereo system, transmitting the music (which you are streaming via sshfs from your home network) via FM radio to the stereo, and suddenly the Z Z Top is interrupted by "bananaphone", everyone in the party who is grooving to the music will look up with puzzled expressions and you'll slink over to the N900, cursing the fact that you chose "bananaphone" as your ringtone...

....purely a hypothetical circumstance, it didn't happen to anyone I know at all. Nope. Nobody at all.

Carry on.

allnameswereout
2009-09-22, 06:37
And if, hypothetically, you are at a party, using your N900 as a jukebox, and it is sitting on top of a big stereo system, transmitting the music (which you are streaming via sshfs from your home network) via FM radio to the stereo, and suddenly the Z Z Top is interrupted by "bananaphone", everyone in the party who is grooving to the music will look up with puzzled expressions and you'll slink over to the N900, cursing the fact that you chose "bananaphone" as your ringtone...

....purely a hypothetical circumstance, it didn't happen to anyone I know at all. Nope. Nobody at all.

Carry on.PulseAudio allows different sound for different applications. Symbian has various profiles for various use cases. Like vibrate only, flight mode, etc etc.

ragnar
2009-09-22, 07:15
And if, hypothetically, you are at a party, using your N900 as a jukebox, and it is sitting on top of a big stereo system, transmitting the music (which you are streaming via sshfs from your home network) via FM radio to the stereo, and suddenly the Z Z Top is interrupted by "bananaphone", everyone in the party who is grooving to the music will look up with puzzled expressions and you'll slink over to the N900, cursing the fact that you chose "bananaphone" as your ringtone...



You can disable the phone part easily (from the power key) for those moments where you don't want to receive calls/SMS's. Other functions continue to work. So yes, almost turning it into a N810 :)

But otherwise: yes, it's a phone. If somebody calls you, it will ring.

When you answer a call, the previous task isn't actually dismissed. It just does multitasking. You can browse, answer a call, and while the call is running switch back to the browser window and continue to browse while talking.

ragnar
2009-09-22, 07:19
What makes you think the phone was just an afterthought and not a focus? (It seemed to me that the only thing the review said that supports that conclusion was that it took 3 steps to get to the phone function, which other users have said isn't the case.)

You can place a shortcut to the phone on your Home screen, in which case it is 1(-2) clicks.

We also thought that many calls would be started not by starting the Call app, but rather click on the person (or select from the contact book) and then select to call him/her. Starting the Call app itself is slightly pointless.

You can just start to type on the Home view and that will start to search the contact book.

Ban
2009-09-22, 07:22
Don't really know a whole lotta details about it, but looks very interesting. I just placed an order through Amazon, just because it has karaoke..yayyyyyy.

I just hope they have alot of good apps for it on OVI, otherwise its going to be just another IT---small market segment.

-B

ragnar
2009-09-22, 07:25
Unless you have a smartphone or a Sidekick, you probably CAN'T receive emails on your device. Most carriers in developed countries allow unlimited or high amounts of messaging, which includes MMS, but meter data sent via email. MMS is limited, but the device and the network usually decides the file limitations, such as filetypes and size. My carrier's MMS system automatically resizes photos when sending, significantly saving data. Even the iPhone downsizes images when emailed from the device! So its like a forced MMS system.



I guess this then highly depends on the country. For instance in Finland it's often vice versa: you can get a flat rate data deal, while the vast majority of deals have a per-message price for SMS/MMS (and MMS being higher in price). Which of course makes email/IM much more attractive than MMS usage.

I for instance have a flat rate 3g data for 10 euros per month.

SMS and MMS in general are liked by the operators because of their monetization opportunities: data becomes much more expensive when you turn that into 'MMS data'.

benny1967
2009-09-22, 07:41
Can I ask what you use MMS for that could not be accomplished via an e-mail from the device? Sending media to another phone that can't view/play e-mail attachments is all I can think of. Isn't the size of an MMS message limited as well?

in addition to everthing that's already been said here:

MMS, like SMS, will make my phone ring/beep/vibrate/... immediately, right after the sender hit the button. email would need to be push-email for this. now given the fact that many handsets don't even support email (or the owner never configured email properly), how many do push email??

it's a different kind of content that goes into MMS. things I want to share now and that have no relevance at all 20mins later.

example?

a friend of mine is single and searching - searching so hard we can't help but make fun of it. - the other week i spotted a group of men in a café that i thought would be interesting for her, so I sent her some pictures by MMS. because it was MMS, she received it instantly and asked for a close up of one of the guys. she got that plus a short video. then she noticed that there was another guy at a table behind them, and she got another picture. etc. etc.

we must have exchanged ~30-50 messages this afternoon, at least 10 of which were MMS with images/videos attached.

that wouldn't have been possible with mail - given that she wasn't home and doesn't have push-mail, she would have seen my first mail only hours later. no way to say "oh, please give me a close-up" then.

it's a different quality. it's not only that you get the data through, it's also about when and how it's presented at the other end.

allnameswereout
2009-09-22, 07:46
I guess this then highly depends on the country. For instance in Finland it's often vice versa: you can get a flat rate data deal, while the vast majority of deals have a per-message price for SMS/MMS (and MMS being higher in price). Which of course makes email/IM much more attractive than MMS usage.

I for instance have a flat rate 3g data for 10 euros per month.

SMS and MMS in general are liked by the operators because of their monetization opportunities: data becomes much more expensive when you turn that into 'MMS data'.Same here. 10 EUR flat rate 3G data. 10 EUR flat rate SMS. I know which one I picked... :)

And honestly, I don't see why MMS would be free or cheap when max speed is GPRS...

McChicken
2009-09-22, 07:55
MMS !
here in North Europe ( Scandinavia) I would grade MMS..........yesterday.
too expensive and I never use it, why when I can email or file transfer for FREE when using my ( turbo)3G account. but I can understand that MMS can play a role in areas where Mobile Broadband is not yet all over the place, or the receiver not having email in the mobile device.

frals
2009-09-22, 08:18
MMS !
here in North Europe ( Scandinavia) I would grade MMS..........yesterday.
too expensive and I never use it, why when I can email or file transfer for FREE when using my ( turbo)3G account. but I can understand that MMS can play a role in areas where Mobile Broadband is not yet all over the place, or the receiver not having email in the mobile device.

Most plans I've looked at comes with X amount of free SMS/MMS (usually within the same provider, some to all). And I can say for sure none of my friends got push email configured on their phones, which is why I prefer MMS, and I use it several times a week. (The circle of friends without push is students at the closest thing we got to computer science here at the Royal Institute of Technology :P)
Most do have email on their phones, but as I said, without push. :(

Also, what provider gives you unlimited data for a reasonable price here in .se? :+

allnameswereout
2009-09-22, 08:57
Also, what provider gives you unlimited data for a reasonable price here in .se? :+Please contribute .se information in http://wiki.maemo.org/Data_plans :)

zkyevolved
2009-09-22, 08:57
Give me push email any day :P. Me and my partner have blackberries, and we just send emails throughout the day, or instant message. One of the main reasons I'm considering the N900 is its "always on" status. I can get an exchange account for gmail and that's push email, or use imap-idle protocols and get the semi push mail (about 15-40 seconds slower than push). It also allows for always on instant messaging.

I send about 1 message (sms) per week. I really have no need. All my friends have push email or instant messaging on their phone. So I send hundreds of emails a day (or IMs) and make about 1 phone call a day. I'm very data intensive. I think the N900 will make a great "always on" companion! (Blackberry is the best for this, but its OS is SOOO aged, I hate looking at it.) As long as I can get through a day with a battery (or 2) even with GPRS, I'll be happy. I recently turned on the 3G on my blackberry and I get about 6 hours of texting / chatting. Let's see how long I can get with the N900. I do get 14 days trial :) I doubt it'll disappoint me.


But I would like to have some portrait pages (like calendar, messages and web browsing) as many times I'm walking and I just take a look at the phone to check to see if I have messages even though I have no interest in answering. Or I'm walking and I want to see where I have to go, or verify a time.

Other than that, as long as the phone part keeps a stable connection, and receives calls and SMS I'm happy :)

Withnail
2009-09-22, 12:07
Please contribute .se information in http://wiki.maemo.org/Data_plans :)

Hey, nice resource ..especially for comparing restrictions!

I made a minor update to the Germany section

nilchak
2009-09-22, 12:27
You can disable the phone part easily (from the power key) for those moments where you don't want to receive calls/SMS's. Other functions continue to work. So yes, almost turning it into a N810 :)

Thats prety cool. I like the nice nifty things which have gone into the Maemo software. I guess this is what makes Maemo special.

Nazrax
2009-09-22, 12:48
The phone UI appears and asks if you'd like to answer or ignore the call. Answering the call ceases the current operation. Hanging up continues the previous process. Ignoring closes the phone UI and continues with the process at hand.

Does the current process get some sort of "incoming call" notification? For instance, if you're playing Bounce when a call comes in, will Bounce automatically pause?

zkyevolved
2009-09-22, 13:10
Does the current process get some sort of "incoming call" notification? For instance, if you're playing Bounce when a call comes in, will Bounce automatically pause?

Shouldn't that be the game that programs that in? Because I don't see ANY benefit of multitasking the game with the game still working. I imagine that if you pull up the task switcher the game will pause (or I hope).

ragnar
2009-09-22, 13:19
Does the current process get some sort of "incoming call" notification? For instance, if you're playing Bounce when a call comes in, will Bounce automatically pause?

All of the normal apps at least, yes. I haven't tried Bounce specifically, it might be a special case because of its fancy graphics (or then not).

The incoming call notification is a dialog on top of the current app.

lemmyslender
2009-09-22, 13:31
The thing I saw from this review was:

An average user (not a Nokia fan) found out about the N900. Liked what they saw, were very excited to get the N900. Realizes that this is more than just a phone. Goes to see it in person / touch use it.

After playing with it, has some "trouble" (getting call screen up) with it, Nokia rep is no help. Finds out some other info (no MMS), etc. Walks away with a feeling of "can wait" instead of previous "can't wait"!

That isn't good. It doesn't matter what we here think or what Nokia thinks. Or what tricks or shortcut we know. Or what we think appropriate use cases are. If the average user who was interested enough to go play with it (we're not talking about someone who heard about it for the first time when they saw it in the store) comes away feeling "meh" then perhaps a target was missed or overlooked. Yes, this is only step 4 of 5, but shouldn't step 4 have a little more positive reaction?

Based on that, I'd think there may be a lot of returns or slower than expected sales, which should translate into quicker/deeper price drops. Makes waiting a little longer look more attractive.

Nazrax
2009-09-22, 13:33
All of the normal apps at least, yes. I haven't tried Bounce specifically, it might be a special case because of its fancy graphics (or then not).

The incoming call notification is a dialog on top of the current app.

I'm not asking about how the notification is presented to the user - I trust that, whatever you may be doing, the notification will be displayed to you.

I'm asking whether the application itself knows that it's being interrupted and can do something intelligent in response to that interruption (automatically pausing, for instance).

I assume the answer is "yes" - something like a generic "lost focus" window manager event - but I was actually surprised on the demo videos to see Bounce keep running even after the user had switched away from it to the dashboard. I would have expected it to realize that it no longer had focus and pause itself.

ragnar
2009-09-22, 13:46
I'm not asking about how the notification is presented to the user - I trust that, whatever you may be doing, the notification will be displayed to you.

I'm asking whether the application itself knows that it's being interrupted and can do something intelligent in response to that interruption (automatically pausing, for instance).

I assume the answer is "yes" - something like a generic "lost focus" window manager event - but I was actually surprised on the demo videos to see Bounce keep running even after the user had switched away from it to the dashboard. I would have expected it to realize that it no longer had focus and pause itself.

Well, I think they can... For instance if you have a media player and a song/video playing, this playback pauses.

But it's actually a feature, not a bug, that the app can be running even when it is in the Dashboard. Pausing always everything that loses focus wouldn't also make sense.

nilchak
2009-09-22, 13:48
I assume the answer is "yes" - something like a generic "lost focus" window manager event - but I was actually surprised on the demo videos to see Bounce keep running even after the user had switched away from it to the dashboard. I would have expected it to realize that it no longer had focus and pause itself.

That may not always be the case.

A Youtube video playing in browser will also not pause when you switch away fro the browser to the dashboard.
If I recall, a video does show Youtube still playing in the dashboard view of the browser.

So such intelligence can not be built in unless its factored into the application itself and not always on an OS level.

McChicken
2009-09-22, 14:03
I send about 1 message (sms) per week. I really have no need. All my friends have push email or instant messaging on their phone. So I send hundreds of emails a day (or IMs) and make about 1 phone call a day. I'm very data intensive. I think the N900 will make a great "always on" companion!

But I would like to have some portrait pages (like calendar, messages and web browsing) as many times I'm walking and I just take a look at the phone to check to see if I have messages even though I have no interest in answering. Or I'm walking and I want to see where I have to go, or verify a time.

Other than that, as long as the phone part keeps a stable connection, and receives calls and SMS I'm happy :)

Looks almost like I wrote this...we have a very similar user profile.
I don't really know if I do not have "true" Push emails, but I get my emails all the time on my very old N95, most times quicker than on my lap top.

allnameswereout
2009-09-22, 14:04
An average user (not a Nokia fan) found out about the N900.This particular user is technically inclined, and hasn't used Nokia products for several years.

daperl
2009-09-22, 14:16
Shouldn't that be the game that programs that in? Because I don't see ANY benefit of multitasking the game with the game still working. I imagine that if you pull up the task switcher the game will pause (or I hope).

What if you and a buddy are playing an online multi-player shoot'm up game and he's calling so the two of you can collaborate by voice? If you pause, you're dead. Also, if the hardware and low-level software were done well, the phone call could have a very small performance impact if you were playing the game over WiFi.

YoDude
2009-09-22, 14:21
I guess this then highly depends on the country. For instance in Finland it's often vice versa: you can get a flat rate data deal, while the vast majority of deals have a per-message price for SMS/MMS (and MMS being higher in price). Which of course makes email/IM much more attractive than MMS usage.

I for instance have a flat rate 3g data for 10 euros per month.

SMS and MMS in general are liked by the operators because of their monetization opportunities: data becomes much more expensive when you turn that into 'MMS data'.


That's kind of what I'm getting at. Back in the day, when it first was available from my provider I thought it was a wondeful idea. Camera phones were just becoming popular and being able to "see what someonw else saw" would be a huge plus for me in my job...

...then reality set in. Some of the older phones in our system were not able to receive MMS and the camera's that were available on the ones that could were so low in resolution a voice or text discription of a problem was actualy more accurate. Even if a high res pictire could be transmitted, the service providor would sometimes only send a text with a link to their web server because the image was to large.

Anybody else that I would send an MMS message to outside of my network would usually bizatch at me for the $.25 (cents) they had to pay for recieving a dang message that they couldn't view.

Ironicaly one of the most frequent uses of my N8**'s are to cirmcumvent provider MMS systems. If someone wants to send me an image from a high quality camera phone, that phone (and the N900) has e-mail capabilities, so they send it to me that way. I use my device to read and view attachments to my e-mail while I'm in the field.
Any pictures that I take while in the field, I BT transfer to the N8**'s, then send them as e-mail attachments tethered to my phones GPRS connection.

As I said the decision to go this route was made some time ago so I asked the question to see if any of the variables had changed.

Good review btw mhammo. Welcome aboard.

Nazrax
2009-09-22, 15:06
That may not always be the case.

A Youtube video playing in browser will also not pause when you switch away fro the browser to the dashboard.
If I recall, a video does show Youtube still playing in the dashboard view of the browser.

So such intelligence can not be built in unless its factored into the application itself and not always on an OS level.

It would be terrible if it were at the OS level - if apps are automatically suspended when you switch away from them, then you really don't have multitasking.


What if you and a buddy are playing an online multi-player shoot'm up game and he's calling so the two of you can collaborate by voice? If you pause, you're dead. Also, if the hardware and low-level software were done well, the phone call could have a very small performance impact if you were playing the game over WiFi.

When the call comes in, unless you've set up some sort of hands-free auto-accept, you're going be taken out of the game for some period of time. In the case of a multiplayer game, pausing probably isn't an option, so special incoming-call action would happen. Even if pausing were possible (an RTS, perhaps) and the game auto-paused, nothing says you couldn't switch out of the phone interface back to your game and resume play while talking at the same time.

I'm not at all concerned about resources - system, network, or otherwise - but rather about "I've almost got that high score ... a few more seconds ... RIIINNNGGG .... NOOOOOOoooooooooooooo!!!!!"

The question of music players is also an interesting one. We know the system music player will properly handle incoming calls (i.e. by pausing the music), so since this is an open system, there must be a way for third-party music players to get that same user-is-on-a-call notification (dbus, maybe?).

Laughing Man
2009-09-22, 15:12
As I said...



Tim

Haha sorry, sorry. Graduate school and my 4 hr commute is getting to me.

timsamoff
2009-09-22, 15:37
All of the normal apps at least, yes. I haven't tried Bounce specifically, it might be a special case because of its fancy graphics (or then not).

The incoming call notification is a dialog on top of the current app.
Bounce needs a lot of work atm. It doesn't pause at all and accidentally touching the screen (or a hardware button) takes you back to the main menu of the game. So, while this hasn't happened to me yet, I'm expecting that an incoming call would exit the current play and take you back to the menu.

Tim

remister
2009-09-22, 15:44
Does the headphones that the device come with have any media remote (ie play, pause, fast forward, ect) control capabilities.

lemmyslender
2009-09-22, 17:53
This particular user is technically inclined, and hasn't used Nokia products for several years.

That's kind of my point. If a more technically inclined user is having issues, imagine a non-technically inclined user. Having someone who is more technically inclined be very excited, then after using the device change their opinion down to "I'll wait and see" from "I want in now!", to me this indicates it may be slow to be adopted, or get a lot of returns.

timsamoff
2009-09-22, 18:11
Does the headphones that the device come with have any media remote (ie play, pause, fast forward, ect) control capabilities.
I don't think any of us non-Nokians know that right now. But, since the N900 has A2DP, you can easily find a plethora of third-party Bluetooth headphones that possess these buttons.

legendemeritus
2009-09-22, 18:20
Does the headphones that the device come with have any media remote (ie play, pause, fast forward, ect) control capabilities.

included headset (http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/headsets/wired-headsets/nokia-stereo-headset-wh-205) per Nokia N900 specs (http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/devices/nokia-n900/specifications)

daperl
2009-09-22, 18:30
When the call comes in, unless you've set up some sort of hands-free auto-accept, you're going be taken out of the game for some period of time. In the case of a multiplayer game, pausing probably isn't an option, so special incoming-call action would happen. Even if pausing were possible (an RTS, perhaps) and the game auto-paused, nothing says you couldn't switch out of the phone interface back to your game and resume play while talking at the same time.

Granted, I haven't seen a phone-call-while-doing-something-else demo, but I'm hoping the n900 doesn't work the way you suggest. If I'm playing a game, reading, or typing away, and a call comes in, I'm hoping that one of the options is that a translucent dialog appears to let me ignore or accept with a keyboard shortcut. If I accept the call, what is the n900 going to cut away to? The two parties just start talking and I keep killing bad guys, but maybe now they've changed their howling death cries to a helpless whimper.

lma
2009-09-22, 18:50
But, since the N900 has A2DP, you can easily find a plethora of third-party Bluetooth headphones that possess these buttons.

A2DP on its own isn't enough, it just transfers audio. However AVRCP is also claimed to be supported.

Nazrax
2009-09-22, 19:07
If I accept the call, what is the n900 going to cut away to?

As I understand it, this.

daperl
2009-09-22, 19:32
As I understand it, this.

Even if I'm just answering a call? That seems unlikely. I can certainly switch over to the phone app if I want to, but I shouldn't be forced over there to just answer a voice call.

lemmyslender
2009-09-22, 19:36
I'd still like to know what happens when I have to incoming calls: 1 via cellular, 1 via SIP at the same time (ie from Google Voice forward).

pycage
2009-09-22, 19:42
This End Call button looks dangerously near to the Speaker button...

slate8
2009-09-22, 19:52
This End Call button looks dangerously near to the Speaker button...

It does, but don't get hung up on it...

(Sorry, couldn't resist :D)

aSIMULAtor
2009-09-22, 19:58
I'd still like to know what happens when I have to incoming calls: 1 via cellular, 1 via SIP at the same time (ie from Google Voice forward).

If you have one ongoing call that's a cellular call for example, then you get an incoming call via SIP and you answer it, it puts the cellular call on hold and you can switch back and forth from the cellular call to the SIP call. It's easy to switch back and forth calls as there's an "on hold" strip at the top of the screen which you can press on.

hope this helps.

zkyevolved
2009-09-22, 20:17
If you have one ongoing call that's a cellular call for example, then you get an incoming call via SIP and you answer it, it puts the cellular call on hold and you can switch back and forth from the cellular call to the SIP call. It's easy to switch back and forth calls as there's an "on hold" strip at the top of the screen which you can press on.

hope this helps.

It sounds like someone has a prototype ;) how's the battery life :D?

Laughing Man
2009-09-22, 20:55
Hmm pycage's point about it being close is alarming. Though given that it's resistive, depending on sensitivity hopefully an ear wouldn't hang it up. I imagine the iPhone with its capacitative screen doesn't have that problem.

As for daperl's comment, I agree you should be able to answer the phone and have it stay in that process window. No need to switch over to the phone menu (but still have it open as a background task).

As for the game, yeah I think there should be an option for application pausing (not OS level because then you just have an iPhone like result). But for things like Bounce to have it pause on loss of screen focus. Obviously for multiplayer games we couldn't do that or it would be abused.

But then again a background telephone process wouldn't be to bad since the game would remain focused.

GeneralAntilles
2009-09-22, 21:05
Hmm pycage's point about it being close is alarming. Though given that it's resistive, depending on sensitivity hopefully an ear wouldn't hang it up.


That why, like the iPhone, it has a proximity sensor to turn off the screen and touchscreen when it's up against your face. . . .


I imagine the iPhone with its capacitative screen doesn't have that problem.


Um, yeah, capacitive doesn't even require contact to sense input. If this were an issue (which it's not on either device thanks to the proximity sensor), capacitive would have it much worse than resistive.

Laughing Man
2009-09-22, 21:18
That's what I meant. If the iPhone doesn't have the problem of shutting off when it senses an electrical circuit (from your ear) then I can't imagine it being an issue for the n900 which requires pressure on its resistive touch screen. Not unless you slam it against your ear. Good news on the proximity detector though (what does it detect? o.O)

GeneralAntilles
2009-09-22, 21:40
That's what I meant. If the iPhone doesn't have the problem of shutting off when it senses an electrical circuit (from your ear) then I can't imagine it being an issue for the n900 which requires pressure on its resistive touch screen. Not unless you slam it against your ear. Good news on the proximity detector though (what does it detect? o.O)

It doesn't sense an electrical circuit (since that's essentially what the screen does to sense touch), it has a little IR LED and a receiver. When the IR bounces off your face and into the receiver it knows that there's an object close by (face, pocket, purse, whatever).

It's basically a miniaturized version of the IR beams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Beam) they have on some electronic keyboards and synthesizers.

qole
2009-09-22, 21:45
The proximity sensor is right near the light sensor, which is designed to make the screen get brighter and darker, repeatedly, as a left-hander scrolls down a web-page.

;) :D

skalogre
2009-09-22, 21:46
The proximity sensor is right near the light sensor, which is designed to make the screen get brighter and darker, repeatedly, as a left-hander scrolls down a web-page.

;) :D

I think the term for the feature is Continuously Adaptive Backlighting - aka kinetic brightness :D

Laughing Man
2009-09-22, 21:49
Or powersave. ;)

strank
2009-09-23, 06:27
Granted, I haven't seen a phone-call-while-doing-something-else demo, ...

Here is a nice demo in French: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xagig3_presentation-du-nokia-n900-sous-mae_tech

At about 4:00 the first call comes in. If you continue watching, you will see several calls and text message notifications for this, obviously very popular, guy. :)

Regarding Bounce: I recall a video showing Bounce continue to run and respond to the accelerometers while task switching, but when another task was selected it paused automatically. I am pretty sure that's how the final version will (read, should) work.

cheers

pycage
2009-09-23, 06:27
I think the term for the feature is Continuously Adaptive Backlighting - aka kinetic brightness :D

Oh, how I hate this on my N810. The light sensor is always where I put my finger for holding the N810. :(

VRe
2009-09-23, 11:27
Has anybody tried out what the calendar can do?

I would be interested to know how well repeating events work. Can one remove occurrence from middle of repeat? Can one remove occurrences from selected occurrence to the last occurrence in one go? Can one modify single occurrence of repeat so that it does not modify the other occurrences?

allnameswereout
2009-09-23, 13:47
That's kind of my point. If a more technically inclined user is having issues, imagine a non-technically inclined user.OK. I just wanted to underline that part.

While what you say may be true in some circumstances its also true a technical user has different values than a non-technical user, and will therefore experience different issues.

For example, in this case the user is used to BB and its keyboard and compares his N900 experience with that.

Having someone who is more technically inclined be very excited, then after using the device change their opinion down to "I'll wait and see" from "I want in now!", to me this indicates it may be slow to be adopted, or get a lot of returns.This is just one experience. Don't give it too much value which is what you do when you say 'indicates it may be slow to be adopted, or get lot of returns'.

Also, the conclusion is at least not something like totally a bummer.

Since Nokia has lower market penetration in US than in EU, you can expect more people who are not using a Nokia product in US. And, it is questionable whether it is of value that a reviewer is currently a Nokia user.

So, yeah, I am far, far more interested in initial user experiences from non or less technical inclined people than from non-Nokia users. Although not right away after product is launched because there are always rough edges in initial stages a product is launched. My rule of thumb is to not buy a product right after it is released, so I'd fall in the 'waiting' category, even though I may be enthusiast.

lemmyslender
2009-09-23, 14:19
If you have one ongoing call that's a cellular call for example, then you get an incoming call via SIP and you answer it, it puts the cellular call on hold and you can switch back and forth from the cellular call to the SIP call. It's easy to switch back and forth calls as there's an "on hold" strip at the top of the screen which you can press on.

hope this helps.

Thanks for the reply. Although I expected something like that for an incoming call while already on another call, it sounds like it's an easy to use feature.

I am more interested in the case of receiving two calls at approximately the same time. If someone dials my google voice number it forwards to several phones at the same time (including my cell number and my SIP number). When I'm in an area with wifi coverage, I'd prefer to answer the SIP call, not the cellular call.

I assume my cell number will ring first, and by the time I pick up/ get out the N900, the SIP call will be ringing as well. Is it easy to differentiate between the two call types? Then I could ignore the cell call and answer the SIP call.

kanishou
2009-09-23, 20:04
Bounce needs a lot of work atm. It doesn't pause at all and accidentally touching the screen (or a hardware button) takes you back to the main menu of the game. So, while this hasn't happened to me yet, I'm expecting that an incoming call would exit the current play and take you back to the menu.

Tim

The main menu _is_ pausing the game. If you tap outside the buttons, it will continue the game where you left off. Incidentally I just got a skype call while in bounce, and it appears to have paused the game.

Switching to the tasklauncher while in the game (using the keyboard shortcut) still keeps the game running though. I don't know if this is sensible, but you have to admit that it makes for great demonstrations (and ultimately bounce isn't much more than a tech demo right now)!

twaelti
2009-09-23, 21:11
We also thought that many calls would be started not by starting the Call app, but rather click on the person (or select from the contact book) and then select to call him/her. [...]
You can just start to type on the Home view and that will start to search the contact book.
Thanks for this - it's the perfect solution. I had a number of SE phones in the past which all featured such a function. It really is outstanding usablity.

remister
2009-09-24, 02:32
Here is a nice demo in French: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xagig3_presentation-du-nokia-n900-sous-mae_tech
cheers

Thanks for a good video, I wonder why English Hand On video aren't that long!

timsamoff
2009-09-24, 04:10
It doesn't sense an electrical circuit (since that's essentially what the screen does to sense touch), it has a little IR LED and a receiver. When the IR bounces off your face and into the receiver it knows that there's an object close by (face, pocket, purse, whatever).

It's basically a miniaturized version of the IR beams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Beam) they have on some electronic keyboards and synthesizers.
Completely OT, but this would be an awesome way to make a digital theremin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theremin) on the N900 (one finger for screen pressure, the other for IR distance). :D

Tim

Thesandlord
2009-09-24, 04:17
Wow good idea Tim!

GeraldKo
2009-09-24, 04:19
Here is a nice demo in French: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xagig3_presentation-du-nokia-n900-sous-mae_tech



Good video, gave me the best sense of the N900 hardware of any video or photos I've seen. It's nice looking. It looked like it would feel good as a phone.

I also saw a couple things of interest on the unit's screen in the demo ...

There was an icon for an Evernote client. Someone on this forum has been jonesing for one. There was also an icon for an "Amazon Widget," though I'm not sure what that is.

Also, actually maybe on another video linked on that webpage, I saw that the user could zoom in on a page (with the weird spiral gesture) but that the text, as a result, ran off the screen. It makes me wonder about the lack of Fit Width to View, which I really liked (escaped when I hated it!! -- that is, except when I accidentally left it on and a webpage rendered unbearably slowly). QGil had said something a long time ago about a superior way to make sure we could read text on the little screen, even without Fit Width to View. If that technology is incorporated in the N900, it wasn't immediately apparent to that reviewer. I hope there's some trick -- like an effective font size control -- that can replace Fit Width to View, assuming FWTV isn't offered.

zerojay
2009-09-24, 04:28
Good video, gave me the best sense of the N900 hardware of any video or photos I've seen. It's nice looking. It looked like it would feel good as a phone.

I also saw a couple things of interest on the unit's screen in the demo ...

There was an icon for an Evernote client. Someone on this forum has been jonesing for one. There was also an icon for an "Amazon Widget," though I'm not sure what that is.

Also, actually maybe on another video linked on that webpage, I saw that the user could zoom in on a page (with the weird spiral gesture) but that the text, as a result, ran off the screen. It makes me wonder about the lack of Fit Width to View, which I really liked (escaped when I hated it!! -- that is, except when I accidentally left it on and a webpage rendered unbearably slowly). QGil had said something a long time ago about a superior way to make sure we could read text on the little screen, even without Fit Width to View. If that technology is incorporated in the N900, it wasn't immediately apparent to that reviewer. I hope there's some trick -- like an effective font size control -- that can replace Fit Width to View, assuming FWTV isn't offered.

Evernote and Amazon widgets are in Extras/Extras-testing/Extras-devel... I don't remember which.

Fit Width to View is done by simply double tapping on a paragraph as Quim previously stated.

timsamoff
2009-09-24, 05:07
Wow good idea Tim!
Of course, then I'd have to somehow get an N900 sent to my pal, Angelo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCDX3gQlV68). Hmmm...

Tim

mhammo
2009-09-25, 16:46
Can I ask what you use MMS for that could not be accomplished via an e-mail from the device? Sending media to another phone that can't view/play e-mail attachments is all I can think of. Isn't the size of an MMS message limited as well?

Not everyone I know has email, nor does everyone I know have the ability to get email on their phone. MMS allows you to easily snap a pic and zip it to their phone.

It's not a deal breaker for me, but something that I feel should be a core function for such a high end phone/device that has both Wifi and 3g...to me, it makes no sense NOT to have it.

mhammo
2009-09-25, 16:51
and to me, "sub-optimal" just means "not yet used to it".... it goes without saying that if you're used to a 4 or 5 row keyboard and someone hands you a 3 row board, you'll have troubles. But... after about an hour of texting, you'll be cruising along fine.

Agreed, I can eventually get used to it, but, there is a BIG difference between "not yet used it", and what I feel is the sub-optimal hardware part of the phone. One can get "use to" just about anything, but that doesn't mean it gets any better or less frustrating/disappointing to use. The main thing was the spacing and feel of the keys, and their travel. I was just expecting a much better keyboard experience.

Laughing Man
2009-09-25, 16:52
Most people I know don't even have SMS or MMS plans on their phones lol. Heck, I didn't use SMS till college and that was because I got Google Voice. But I do agree that it's a shame a feature like that is out on a device like this.

romanianusa
2009-09-25, 16:58
I wonder why MMS is so useful?? You can send pics through email too...so what's the big deal?? Because it's more easier?? Because it send right away?? Because when someone open it ..it shows the picture right away???

mhammo
2009-09-25, 16:59
You can place a shortcut to the phone on your Home screen, in which case it is 1(-2) clicks.

We also thought that many calls would be started not by starting the Call app, but rather click on the person (or select from the contact book) and then select to call him/her. Starting the Call app itself is slightly pointless.

You can just start to type on the Home view and that will start to search the contact book.

Not everyone I call, or every call I make, are going to be contacts in my address book. In fact, because I will use it for my job, and as my only device (hopefully anyway), MOST phone calls will be to people who are NOT in my address book. I certainly don't want to add every Tom, Dick, and Harry I need to call to my address book to make it easy to call.

Plus, in order to start typing, you have to open the soft keyboard, or, open the slider, those are extra steps that are generally not needed to make a phone call.


To me, there should have been a hardware key or soft key always present to be able to make a call.

Laughing Man
2009-09-25, 17:01
I wonder why MMS is so useful?? You can send pics through email too...so what's the big deal?? Because it's more easier?? Because it send right away?? Because when someone open it ..it shows the picture right away???

Email requires a data plan most of the time, something most people don't have.

Soulfarmer
2009-09-25, 17:03
I wonder why MMS is so useful?? You can send pics through email too...so what's the big deal?? Because it's more easier?? Because it send right away?? Because when someone open it ..it shows the picture right away???

I think the only useful feature of MMS is just that, it is much more quicker. If I want my GF to see something right away and comment on it, I won't use email.

EDIT: actually aforementioned reason is the only reason I will miss MMS on N900...

Bratag
2009-09-25, 17:27
Not everyone I call, or every call I make, are going to be contacts in my address book. In fact, because I will use it for my job, and as my only device (hopefully anyway), MOST phone calls will be to people who are NOT in my address book. I certainly don't want to add every Tom, Dick, and Harry I need to call to my address book to make it easy to call.

Plus, in order to start typing, you have to open the soft keyboard, or, open the slider, those are extra steps that are generally not needed to make a phone call.


To me, there should have been a hardware key or soft key always present to be able to make a call.

Of course you could just put a shortcut to the phone app on your desktop like most the demos show and get to the dialer in 1 click. I realize the effort may exhaust you but think of the workout :)

Laughing Man
2009-09-25, 17:29
Wouldn't that just be turning the phone to portrait mode then (I think it automatically opens up to the dialer/phone app).

zerojay
2009-09-25, 17:45
Not everyone I call, or every call I make, are going to be contacts in my address book. In fact, because I will use it for my job, and as my only device (hopefully anyway), MOST phone calls will be to people who are NOT in my address book. I certainly don't want to add every Tom, Dick, and Harry I need to call to my address book to make it easy to call.

Plus, in order to start typing, you have to open the soft keyboard, or, open the slider, those are extra steps that are generally not needed to make a phone call.


To me, there should have been a hardware key or soft key always present to be able to make a call.

Eh... what?

To call someone you can do:

- Open the Phone app.
- Rotate the phone if launch on rotate is turned on.
- Press power key, tap Phone button.
- Click on a contact in your Contact book, select Call.

When you open phone through any other means other than through clicking on a contact, you have two buttons at the top... one for going to a dialing pad to call anyone you choose and a second button for heading to your contact list.

Hit the Dialing Pad button and there you go... phone buttons all there for you to type away on. It's very simple, really. No, you don't need to add everyone to your contact list first. No, you don't need the keyboard open either.

UCOMM
2009-09-25, 17:51
Eh... what?

To call someone you can do:

- Open the Phone app.
- Rotate the phone if launch on rotate is turned on.
- Press power key, tap Phone button.
- Click on a contact in your Contact book, select Call.

When you open phone through any other means other than through clicking on a contact, you have two buttons at the top... one for going to a dialing pad to call anyone you choose and a second button for heading to your contact list.

Hit the Dialing Pad button and there you go... phone buttons all there for you to type away on. It's very simple, really. No, you don't need to add everyone to your contact list first. No, you don't need the keyboard open either.


this sounds complicated, is there a phone that just has a giant picture of a phone i can press, and at most 1 physical button, this way i won't be confused

Soulfarmer
2009-09-25, 18:05
this sounds complicated, is there a phone that just has a giant picture of a phone i can press, and at most 1 physical button, this way i won't be confused

I think you only need to do ONE of mentioned actions. Not all.

Laughing Man
2009-09-25, 18:10
Though that does bring up a good question. If Nokia intends for the switch to portrait mode to trigger phone application to be the main way of calling. Once everyone starts introducing portrait apps wouldn't that be problematic? (if you kept the option for portrait mode = phone on) Thus why it would also take Nokia awhile to figure out just what to do with supporting automatic portrait mode for the operating system and applications in general. Besides the press power key then telephone, it seems the portrait mode activation is the only single step phone launch method.

Unless Nokia can detect the amount of force. Then say a quick switch to portrait orientation would activate phone. While a slow rotation to portrait orientation would just keep portrait mode of whatever application you are using.

tso
2009-09-25, 18:33
my understanding is that the dialer autolaunch only happens on rotation if the focus is on the "desktop"...

daperl
2009-09-25, 18:36
Unless Nokia can detect the amount of force. Then say a quick switch to portrait orientation would activate phone. While a slow rotation to portrait orientation would just keep portrait mode of whatever application you are using.

It would be too tempting to take a hammer to any device that worked like that.

Laughing Man
2009-09-25, 18:42
Haha true, out in the world it probably wouldn't be ideal. Or you'd have to set the sensitivity threshold for quick to be like throwing it and it would end up in the lake.

allnameswereout
2009-09-25, 19:20
Not everyone I call, or every call I make, are going to be contacts in my address book. In fact, because I will use it for my job, and as my only device (hopefully anyway), MOST phone calls will be to people who are NOT in my address book. I certainly don't want to add every Tom, Dick, and Harry I need to call to my address book to make it easy to call.Nokia E71 has 2 modus: business and personal. These influence the look & feel of the device as well as the way the home screen looks. This feature could be extended to something akin to your purpose. Also, in an IM client you have all kind of groups; friends, family, co-workers. You can hide or unhide a group. Very useful. This is flexible since it could also be possible 'both modes' are desired.

zerojay
2009-09-25, 19:28
If Nokia intends for the switch to portrait mode to trigger phone application to be the main way of calling.

It's hard to intend that to be the main way of calling when it's off by default. ;)

qgil
2009-09-26, 22:11
Completely OT, but this would be an awesome way to make a digital theremin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theremin) on the N900 (one finger for screen pressure, the other for IR distance). :D

Coming! http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/theremin/1.4.0-4/

pelago
2009-09-26, 22:24
Completely OT, but this would be an awesome way to make a digital theremin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theremin) on the N900 (one finger for screen pressure, the other for IR distance). :D
Do we know for sure that the proximity sensor outputs a value saying distance to nearest object? Or is it just a binary "too close" vs "too far" output?

allnameswereout
2009-09-26, 22:31
Coming! http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/theremin/1.4.0-4/Aha so that is the place to search for packages. Could you make packages.maemo.org redirect to maemo.org/packages because Ubuntu and Debian use packages.* as well.

Giorgiom92
2009-09-26, 23:07
The phone can be used in both landscape and portrait mode. Also there is a setting where you can automatically make the phone launch if you hold the device in the portrait mode.

Thanks for the review.

How do you know that the phone can be used in both landscape and portrait mode?
i have seen everywere, that for use all apps, you must be on landscape mode...

Laughing Man
2009-09-26, 23:24
I think he meant the phone application itself can be used in both landscape and portrait (and indeed videos prove this). For apps right now it is landscape mode only (though Nokia plans on making some of the apps later on like browser and email maybe portrait mode with an update).

And individual developers can choose to make a portrait mode if they want. But it's not officially supported (as in here's an API to do that for you).

Soulfarmer
2009-09-27, 00:03
And individual developers can choose to make a portrait mode if they want. But it's not officially supported (as in here's an API to do that for you).

One thing I would like to point out is that "not supported" is not the same as "not possible". I have read this over and over again that "not supported" means exactly that, not supported. Support in these cases means that Nokia is not helping devs in said feature. Not supported does not exclude questioned feature. Published stance on something not possible means that, not possible.

Please dear avid readers of this forum bear in mind difference between something not supported and something not there. It is kinda like a river... is there supported bridge somewhere or just a river crossing you can get over the river at your own risk. Totally different from Nokia telling you "hey there is NO way over the kwai river"