N900 FM Receiver. [Archive] - maemo.org

epertinez

2009-09-24, 10:04

I've been looking around and I found everyplace that N900 is going to have an FM Transmiter, but no place talks about FM Receiver.

I'm maybe special, but FM Radio is one of the must have of all my previous phones. I don't know about you, but I use it frequently.

It makes no sense for me having a "perfect" device and not having FM Radio build in. Mostly when you have some FM functionality.

So here they come my obius questions:

Do N900 have FM Radio reception? Does transmision implies reception?
Do the chipset work both ways?
Could it be some problem with the kernel?
Is it the hidden egg the same way that it was in N800?
Am I so special or it is normal for you too to use radio hability from your phones?

<unpolite>
If you like this post, please, thank it. I'm shamely low in karma for someone who was here from the first 770. :D
</unpolite>

chilko

2009-09-24, 10:11

there is FM receiver (http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=318661&postcount=451), but for now is missing the software that is using it

pycage

2009-09-24, 10:27

The kernel source code is public, so a few questions can be answered.

Do N900 have FM Radio reception? Does transmision implies reception?

The Bluetooth chip is a combo-chip with Bluetooth and FM radio according to the data sheet that can be found at Broadcom for the BCM2048. Fanoush already pointed out months ago that the chip was a combo. The data sheet confirms this.

Do the chipset work both ways?

Transmitter and receiver sit on different chips.

Could it be some problem with the kernel?

Well, the driver is there in the kernel sources. We'll see if it'll be included on the real device.

Is it the hidden egg the same way that it was in N800?

Maybe. But then it was not well hidden since we found out about it several months ago already. :)

Am I so special or it is normal for you too to use radio hability from your phones?

I have never used radio on a phone, simply because none of my phones had an FM receiver. But I use my old N800 daily as radio alarm clock.

WilliePre

2009-09-24, 10:39

It would be great if the FM Receiver can be used. Because when there’s no UMTS reception you can use FM radio to keep up to date with the news. Then finally my N800 can be put to rest.....::(

pycage

2009-09-24, 10:45

If there will be a working driver, I'm gonna put it to use, as I did with pyFMRadio and MediaBox on the N800.

makoute

2009-09-24, 15:51

If this doesn't have an FM radio function, I won't be buying it (too bad for me:mad:, it's too big of a device to have to carry another device (mp3 player) with.

Soulfarmer

2009-09-24, 15:58

If this doesn't have an FM radio function, I won't be buying it (too bad for me:mad:, it's too big of a device to have to carry another device (mp3 player) with.

So if N900 doesn't have FM-radio, you'd need mp3-player with you? Wouldn't you need FM-radio with you in that case since obviously N900 can play mp3's? Or did I misunderstood your mp3 player and you meant it as a radio too?

timsamoff

2009-09-24, 16:04

So if N900 doesn't have FM-radio, you'd need mp3-player with you? Wouldn't you need FM-radio with you in that case since obviously N900 can play mp3's? Or did I misunderstood your mp3 player and you meant it as a radio too?
He probably meant that the "other" mp3 player was a Zune (or something similar) which has an FM receiver.

In any case, "community" work is being done (as we speak) to enable the FM receiver for regular users. So, don't fret too much.

The default Media player is very good (and usable). The FM transmitter rocks. There will soon be (probably many) ways to use the FM receiver.

Tim

makoute

2009-09-24, 16:04

So if N900 doesn't have FM-radio, you'd need mp3-player with you? Wouldn't you need FM-radio with you in that case since obviously N900 can play mp3's? Or did I misunderstood your mp3 player and you meant it as a radio too?

Yes, I use my mp3 player as a radio also. And I use the radio function everyday where as I only use the mp3 player mostly when I travel. So this is definitely a must have especially if I were to buy a phone that is the size of the N900.

Soulfarmer

2009-09-24, 16:08

Yes, I use my mp3 player as a radio also. And I use the radio function everyday where as I only use the mp3 player mostly when I travel. So this is definitely a must have especially if I were to buy a phone that is the size of the N900.

Yeah, now that I think of it, maybe I replied to your post way too fast. :)

I have FM-receiver in my Zen and E90 but I rarely use that feature so it was kinda too easy to overlook how other people might consider radio as a dealbreaker.

JayBomb999

2009-09-24, 17:06

beelerb

2009-09-24, 17:12

My guess is someone will write something pretty quick if the driver is functional. It's too attractive too ignore.

An app that routed a live FM signal through a buffer to allow DVR-like control would be interesting. Maybe even a speech-to-text conversion addon for talk radio or feed of tweets about what you're listening to.

I've always liked and used the FM radio in my Nokias in the past. I'm glad to see they included it on the N900.

urnass

2009-09-24, 17:14

Not having the FM receiver on the N900 wouldn't have been a deal breaker for me, but it would have been missed. I use the FM tuner on my N800 frequently.

So what happens if you tune the FM receiver to the same station your broadcasting your sound over on the FM transmitter. This can't be a good thing - seems like the feedback / noise would cause something to overload / break.

beelerb

2009-09-24, 18:06

Whether or not there is an FM receiver is a non-issue for me personally.

However, since there allegedly is one, how difficult/likely would it be to implement time shifting capability? I do occasionally listen to sporting events and the ability to pause a live event could be quite a compelling feature?

Is it even doable with this hardware?

I must of been typing while you posted. IMO setting up a DVR style program wouldn't be that bad. My guess would be to write the audio from the FM radio to an audio file (via a hidden command line application) and an app with a GUI to control said app and play saved ones. Again, possibly not that bad. The question is can you keep the CPU load down enough not to burn too much of the battery.

pycage

2009-09-24, 18:20

This is the first time I read about time-shifting with FM radio, but the idea sounds interesting. :)

Alex Atkin UK

2009-09-24, 18:57

Worst case they could disable FM transmitting while the FM receiver is in use. Although I can see a situation where it would be useful to have both enabled at the same time - for GPS turn by turn while listening to the radio.

Perhaps the receiver driver can lookup the frequency you are transmitting at and prevent tuning to that frequency? Surely there is some functionality already in there to prevent feedback, but what?

That said, what are they using for the antenna? If they both use a headset/headphones for the antenna wouldn't that be a "bit dodgy" having both at the same time?

liveslow

2009-09-24, 18:59

The big question for me is if it has a built in antenna. My p1i's FM radio is nice, but you have to have the headset plugged in as it also acts as the antenna.

If the N900 does not require anything additional to be plugged in for reception, that will be super nice.

pycage

2009-09-24, 19:07

Den in USA

2009-09-24, 19:11

A built-in antenna wouldn't be sufficient for reception (see the N800). You have to connect headphones or at least a compatible cable.
I'm not a FM technician but I think a FM antenna needs to be a certain length.

I agree. It would need a "telescoping" type that would pull out from the device, perhaps a meter in length when extended.

qgil

2009-09-24, 19:23

Hum, a telescopic stylus. Think of it.

Den in USA

2009-09-24, 19:27

Hum, a telescopic stylus. Think of it.

In the "old days" , before laser pointers, we used telescoping pointers.

timsamoff

2009-09-24, 20:23

Hum, a telescopic stylus. Think of it.
Is that a stylus in your pocket, or are you just...? :p

beelerb

2009-09-24, 20:24

This is the first time I read about time-shifting with FM radio, but the idea sounds interesting. :)

We have a software controlled FM receiver, a mostly persistent IP connection and Python on a phone. We can do some really creative things. Time shifting with speed and pitch correction, scanner, social sharing or even a crude ad-hoc Mesh network (since we have both a transmitter and receiver). Serious tool for serious fun. =)

Man, I hope they ship sooner than later.

solkari

2009-09-25, 06:26

The Bluetooth chip is a combo-chip with Bluetooth and FM radio according to the data sheet that can be found at Broadcom for the BCM2048. Fanoush already pointed out months ago that the chip was a combo. The data sheet confirms this.

Transmitter and receiver sit on different chips.

This makes me think that what I thought was a crazy idea, isn't actually that crazy. If they are separated, that would mean we can have them tuned to different frequencies, right?

What I was thinking, was a transmitter control app that uses the receiver to monitor for noise (not putting it to the audio device, of course). If the noise gets to a certain point, it starts scanning other frequencies for somewhere it can get a clearer signal. When it finds a clear frequency, it tells the user to switch to that on the radio they're using.

Does this sound doable (or useful) to anyone else?

qole

2009-09-25, 06:39

Not only is there an FM receiver, but it reportedly (http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?p=248230#post248230) can receive RDS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Data_System). Which means even more fun... Theoretically, we could send data over our FM Mesh network.

pycage

2009-09-25, 06:59

Not only does it have RDS, but can also switch between the US/EUR and Japan FM bands, and this time it's already implemented in the driver code.

eiffel

2009-09-25, 11:02

andree

2009-09-25, 13:04

afaik, the FM transmitter only covers limited range - I would guess that similar to bluetooth-signal-coverage (as both fm and bluetooth are processed by the same chip).. but one could at least annoy people with fm radios at a beach, yeah.. :)

fnordianslip

2009-09-25, 14:57

It is quite probable that the FM transmitter would, if it were operating at the same time as the FM receiver, desensitise the FM receiver, causing its Automatic Gain Control (AGC) to wind down thus preventing good signal reception, even with the transmitter and receiver tuned to different frequencies.

qole

2009-09-25, 16:52

Good catch! The transmitter actually generates an error if you plug the headphones in, and the receiver won't work without them! Catch-22.

Guys, before you get too excited please note that the FM transmitter automatically turns off (http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Multimedia_Components/FM_Transmitter_API_Usage) when you connect any cable except the charger. Therefore we know that the FM transmitter uses an internal antenna.

On the other hand, the N900 will almost certainly will need the headphones plugged in as an antenna for FM reception, so don't expect to be able to receive and transmit at the same time.

Regards,
Roger

adamnair

2009-10-11, 15:04

Wait, I keep reading FM transmitter in Nokia N900 specs.

Is it a transmitter or receiver we're talking about?

DeeGee

2009-10-11, 15:10

Both. The transmitter is mentioned in the specs because the software supports it. There is also a receiver build in, but no software, so it isn't mentioned in the specs.

kalle

2009-10-11, 15:12

Is it a transmitter or receiver we're talking about?

Both. But no software to use receiver at this point. Would not be surprised to see it in for example in Canola in few weeks, though ;)

But out of the box you can transmit but not receive (for now).

YoDude

2009-10-11, 15:22

Wait, I keep reading FM transmitter in Nokia N900 specs.

Is it a transmitter or receiver we're talking about?

Why it's both!

Now how much would you pay?

The N900 looks just like a cell phone but it's so much more!

If you call now... (because I can't do this all day.)

You get the:
Cell Phone,
the Mobile Computer,
the Camera,
the Video Recorder,
The Video Player (to play those videos you always wanted to take),
Plus the FM transmitter and Receiver.

A total value of over a $2952.00 dollars :eek:

:D

allnameswereout

2009-10-11, 15:29

Guys, before you get too excited please note that the FM transmitter automatically turns off (http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Multimedia_Components/FM_Transmitter_API_Usage) when you connect any cable except the charger. Therefore we know that the FM transmitter uses an internal antenna.

On the other hand, the N900 will almost certainly will need the headphones plugged in as an antenna for FM reception, so don't expect to be able to receive and transmit at the same time.

Regards,
RogerOne could queue RDS every X minutes instead. If FM transmitter is broadcasting music inbetween tracks, for example.

Bluetooth still works while FM transmitter is enabled, right? Bluetooth FM receiver exists? Bluetooth headphones do.

tso

2009-10-11, 16:24

hmm, boafm on N900, anyone?

pycage

2009-10-11, 17:05

I am working on a FM receiver application today. My n900-fmrx-enabler D-Bus service for actually enabling the disabled hardware is already in extras-devel for two weeks.
The FM radio app might hit extras-devel tonight. :)

It will only be a matter of time until there's an FM radio app in extras.
With the n900-fmrx-enabler doing the tricky part of enabling the hardware, other people can start writing FM radio stuff, too. The FM radio is a V4L2 device.

pycage

2009-10-11, 17:12

hmm, boafm on N900, anyone?

Yup, it needs some additional work done, as the audio output stuff is different on the N900, but since boafm is using pyFMRadio it shouldn't be too hard to make it work. I have updated pyFMRadio for N900 compatibility already.

adamnair

2009-10-11, 20:48

cool, an FM transmitter *and* receiver eh? this is awesome

I have a question though, most if not all countries have restrictions on what frequencies the public are allowed to use

Would this be an issue?

Also anybody have any idea on what frequencies the N900 transmitter works on?

mece

2009-10-11, 20:57

Also anybody have any idea on what frequencies the N900 transmitter works on?

It's 88.1 - 107.9 MHz, like your radio.

pycage

2009-10-11, 21:01

The frequencies are hardwired in the chips, so this isn't an issue. Except for when switching FM bands, if the chips support multiple bands.
The FM receiver in the N900 supports US/EUR and Japan FM bands.

tokuro

2009-10-11, 21:04

Japanese FM starts at 76MHz... not that it matters, since normal EU/US radio can't tune there.

pycage

2009-10-11, 21:08

The N900 can. I don't know if this is a legal issue with a device sold in the US and Europe.

pycage

2009-10-11, 21:12

By the way, for those who can't wait to try the FM receiver:

http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/fmradio/2009.10.11/

Warning: this is stuff from extras-devel. Only install stuff from extras-devel if you know what you're doing. extras-devel is the step before a package goes through the community QA process.

adamnair

2009-10-11, 21:15

It's 88.1 - 107.9 MHz, like your radio.

Wow that's like commercial radio frequencies. I think some countries don't allow transmitters at those frequencies even if they are low power.

pycage

2009-10-11, 21:19

Wow that's like commercial radio frequencies. I think some countries don't allow transmitters at those frequencies even if they are low power.

According to the SDK documentation the FM transmitter can be in a disabled state. Maybe Nokia will disable the FM transmitter for those countries.

Nikem

2009-10-11, 21:22

Wow that's like commercial radio frequencies. I think some countries don't allow transmitters at those frequencies even if they are low power.
But I bet it is allowed everywhere where the N900 will be officially sold by Nokia. :)
And a transmitter has to use these frequencies that a normal kitchenradio tunes to, thats the purpose of a transmitter.

allnameswereout

2009-10-11, 21:33

kalle

2009-10-11, 21:48

Wow that's like commercial radio frequencies. I think some countries don't allow transmitters at those frequencies even if they are low power.

N900 is not the firsth device having an FM transmitter. There is one in N97, for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihmHx_6Y_9A&NR=1

So, no worries :)

tso

2009-10-11, 21:50

Wow that's like commercial radio frequencies. I think some countries don't allow transmitters at those frequencies even if they are low power.

well i know that the law was altered here in norway after people started importing ipod dongles. I guess they found it easier to allow them, with signal strength limitations, then maintain the ban on private transmitters in its existing form.

thecursedfly

2009-10-11, 22:27

Since the radio receiver uses the headphones as antenna, is it possible to force the N900 to play the music from the stereo speakers? or are we forced by hardware to listen to the music from the headphones?

(I'm allready happy that it's there, just, if it's possible, better :D )

kalle

2009-10-12, 00:49

MediaBox will support playing FM radio on the N900 as well (the N900 device specs don't list the FM radio, but there is one, on the Bluetooth chip).
Link: http://pycage.blogspot.com/2009/10/mediabox-on-n900.html

So much for the missing FM radio :)

I wonder if the MMS make it before the N900 starts to ship, too :p

pycage

2009-10-12, 06:54

Since the radio receiver uses the headphones as antenna, is it possible to force the N900 to play the music from the stereo speakers?

Yes. :)

or are we forced by hardware to listen to the music from the headphones?

No.

ossipena

2009-10-12, 07:09

Kozzi

2009-10-12, 12:07

Suddenly I got "Sup dawg" moment and wondered if it's possible to FM transmit a FM radio station using N900. Well just wondering.

thecursedfly

2009-10-12, 12:11

Suddenly I got "Sup dawg" moment and wondered if it's possible to FM transmit a FM radio station using N900. Well just wondering.

what's the purpose of that? o.O

Kozzi

2009-10-12, 12:26

what's the purpose of that? o.O

nothing lol, just because it can :D

pycage

2009-10-12, 13:02

Suddenly I got "Sup dawg" moment and wondered if it's possible to FM transmit a FM radio station using N900. Well just wondering.

Nope, the FM receiver requires a headphones cable as antenna and the FM transmitter won't transmit with a headphones cable plugged in.

tso

2009-10-12, 13:25

that is hardware controlled?

pelago

2009-10-12, 15:13

Nope, the FM receiver requires a headphones cable as antenna and the FM transmitter won't transmit with a headphones cable plugged in.

It's a shame this isn't possible. For people wondering why you would want to do this, I can think of one possible use-case, and that is to mute the radio if receiving an incoming call (hands free, of course) while driving. If using the car's own radio tuned directly into the station, you would have to mute it by hand.

javispedro

2009-10-12, 15:35

Would using an "optimized" app for piping v4l input to pulseaudio (instead of gst), possibly with large buffers even at the cost of audio latency help with battery requirements?

pycage

2009-10-12, 15:51

Would using an "optimized" app for piping v4l input to pulseaudio (instead of gst), possibly with large buffers even at the cost of audio latency help with battery requirements?

Most likely not, because it's not v4l input, but the DAC route of the Bluetooth chip. The chip would also support an I2S audio route but I have no idea how to use that, or if it's possible at all. Nokia confirmed that capturing was the way to go.

thecursedfly

2009-10-12, 16:05

It's a shame this isn't possible. For people wondering why you would want to do this, I can think of one possible use-case, and that is to mute the radio if receiving an incoming call (hands free, of course) while driving. If using the car's own radio tuned directly into the station, you would have to mute it by hand.
maybe it could be accomplished this way:
you set an application (unexistant yet) on the N900 to transmit a silent track to a certain frequency you chose, which is the frequency of the radio station you're listening to; you receive a call, and the N900 begins automatically to overwrite the radio station with the silent track.
This would need that it's possible to use the FM transmitter while in a call, and to set the frequency again every time you change radio station in the car (maybe it's easier providing a large slider on the screen for that). But maybe it could work :)
Anyway, with this ipothetical solution you wouldn't drain the battery that fast, since the transmitter would activate only when in a call, and the receiver wouldn't be active at all. (Imagine you don't have a car recharger :p )

pelago

2009-10-12, 16:09

Interesting idea! But when I've used FM transmitters in the past, I found that the commercial station overrode the little transmitter, not the other way round.

thecursedfly

2009-10-12, 16:15

oh, I tought that being the phone so close it had at least the power to overwite the commercial station.. I think I've read somebody stating so too..
well, it may need somebody to test it first I guess.

Nexus7

2009-10-12, 16:17

Master of Gizmo

2009-10-12, 19:45

Guys, before you get too excited please note that the FM transmitter automatically turns off (http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Multimedia_Components/FM_Transmitter_API_Usage) when you connect any cable except the charger. Therefore we know that the FM transmitter uses an internal antenna.

Perhaps the plug _is_ the transmitter antenna and you aren't supposed to plug anything in so you don't exceed regulatory limits with such a good antenna ...

BTW: Has anyone got the "FM Radio" (receiver) application from extras to work? When i try to use it it doesn't work and my system log says:

bcm2048: 3-0022: BCM I2C error!
bcm2048: 3-0022: Is Bluetooth up and running?
bcm2048: probe of 3-0022 failed with error -5

And yes, bluetooth is up and running ...

pycage

2009-10-12, 19:58

bcm2048: 3-0022: BCM I2C error!
bcm2048: 3-0022: Is Bluetooth up and running?
bcm2048: probe of 3-0022 failed with error -5

And yes, bluetooth is up and running ...

Which firmware version do you have?
Try this command (one line) in the X-Terminal

dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=de.pycage.FMRXEnabler /de/pycage/FMRXEnabler de.pycage.FMRXEnabler.request

It will return a device path and a number. The meaning of the number is:

- OK = 0:
Everything is OK and the receiver can be used
- BLUETOOTH_FAILURE = 1:
There was an error powering up the Bluetooth chip
- I2C_FAILURE = 2:
There was an error powering up the I2C bus
- DRIVER_FAILURE = 3:
There was an error loading the driver module
- TUNER_FAILURE = 4:
There was an error turning on the FM tuner

Maybe rebooting the device will help.
If you have a very old prototype from before September, then the Bluetooth chip is a different one and there's no FM receiver on it.

Master of Gizmo

2009-10-13, 09:03

Which firmware version do you have?

- DRIVER_FAILURE = 3:
There was an error loading the driver module

If you have a very old prototype from before September, then the Bluetooth chip is a different one and there's no FM receiver on it.

It's one of the devices they gave out on the summit and it's error 3 which was to be expected since what i posted were error message from the driver failing to access the hardware.

Is one of you successfully using this on one of the summit-units?

qwerty12

2009-10-13, 09:12

pycage:

Nice work, thanks. It works well for me on 41-1 (39 was giving me problems with it).

Just one feature request, however: A way to manually input the station's frequency would be nice. The slider is a little trigger-happy in the fact that it jumps a lot of frequencies, IMHO.

Master of Gizmo

2009-10-13, 09:16

qwerty12

2009-10-13, 09:23

41-1? My device has 41-10. Is yours one of the devices from the summit?

Till

Oh, sorry, mine is 41-10. I have a bad habit of shortening numbers when I can't remember the last digit...

No, this is a device from before the Summit, but not one those ugly protos.

Best Regards,
Faheem

pycage

2009-10-13, 09:44

It's one of the devices they gave out on the summit and it's error 3 which was to be expected since what i posted were error message from the driver failing to access the hardware.

Is one of you successfully using this on one of the summit-units?

I know of two reasons where loading the driver fails with this error:

1. The Bluetooth chip is not powered up
2. I2C on the Bluetooth chip is not powered up

You're the second person I hear that the FM radio doesn't play. It would really be interesting to hear from other people who got their device on the summit.

My device is from September so I suppose it's the same as qwerty has. From those devices I've heard some success stories. Andre Klapper, I think, has an older device and he also reported success.

pycage

2009-10-13, 09:45

I tried with OS 39-9 and OS 41-10. FM radio works with both firmwares. I've been successfully using the FM radio hardware since 38.x.

thp

2009-10-13, 09:55

Suddenly I got "Sup dawg" moment and wondered if it's possible to FM transmit a FM radio station using N900.

"Sup dawg we herd you liek FM radio, so we put a transmitter in yo receiver so you can transmit while you receive"?

Seriously, though - if the receiver supports RDS and TA/TP it would be nice to pause the media player and pass-through the FM receiver audio when there are traffic announcements.

Right now, I have to use the headphone jack and the car's line-in if I want to listen to music on the N900 and having the car radio switch to traffic announcements on FM radio.

wazd

2009-10-13, 12:13

@pycage
I have a quick mockup for your FM app
http://s16.radikal.ru/i190/0910/3b/ca2ad9bb1941.png

thecursedfly

2009-10-13, 12:24

@pycage
I have a quick mockup for your FM app
http://s16.radikal.ru/i190/0910/3b/ca2ad9bb1941.png

I like it a lot :-o
I was thinking about moving the pin on a fixed frequencies bar, but to move the bar like a contacts list with kinetic scrolling is way better.. x)
I would just make it possible to tap on the current frequency (displaying it in a little box like the browser address bar), so that you can enter manually the numer you want.
thx a lot to all who work on this (pycage in particular I assume)! ;)

pycage

2009-10-13, 12:57

@pycage
I have a quick mockup for your FM app
http://s16.radikal.ru/i190/0910/3b/ca2ad9bb1941.png

This looks great. What does the "Maximum" label mean?
I'm gonna try to put your scale mockup to life. This would look and feel great.

wazd

2009-10-13, 13:07

This looks great. What does the "Maximum" label mean?
I'm gonna try to put your scale mockup to life. This would look and feel great.
Ah, local radio station :D

pelago

2009-10-13, 13:13

Hopefully we'll be able to let the N900 scan for stations and display them and allow picking of them by name, using RDS info.

It would also be nice to have large buttons for previous and next station, for ease of use while driving. My previous car had two pairs of prev/next buttons on the steering wheel - one for surfing through the stations I had setup as favourites, and another pair for scanning the frequencies for just whatever the next highest/lowest station it could find (useful when driving in unusual areas to pick up local stations I haven't set as a favourite). Something like that would be good.

Capt'n Corrupt

2009-10-13, 13:18

@pycage
I have a quick mockup for your FM app
http://s16.radikal.ru/i190/0910/3b/ca2ad9bb1941.png

This would look AMAZING with a parallax scrolling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax) effect and kinetic scrolling.

Love it!

}:^)~

pycage

2009-10-13, 13:25

Parallax scrolling on a scale? I cannot imagine how that would look like. Can you give an example?

Master of Gizmo

2009-10-13, 18:35

I know of two reasons where loading the driver fails with this error:

Ok, it works if i do e.g. a hcitool scan on the commandline while starting the fm app. It seems my bluetooth chips i2c is actually powered down when not being used.

I wonder why you don't have this problem ...

pycage

2009-10-13, 18:42

It shouldn't be used by hcitool either. The I2C is between the BT part and FM part. This is really weird behavior, esp. because there's virtually no time between powering up BT, I2C, and loading the module. Maybe this is the problem and the n900-fmrx-enabler has to wait a little bit before loading the module?

epertinez

2009-10-14, 12:27

http://www.bredax.com/N900radiomockup.png

Here you have a little stupid improvement of the last mockup. The info could be taken after an scan (using RDS), or from data inserted by the user himself.

fahad65

2009-10-14, 12:33

how can i get this radio For Mine......

optimaxxx

2009-10-14, 12:35

Love you guys, i'm from aus

and nothing's better then the radio XD

les_garten

2009-10-14, 15:29

Love you guys, i'm from aus

and nothing's better then the radio XD

WOW, that's amazing! Radio gets all the way down there!

VDVsx

2009-10-14, 16:13

I'm really impressed with the radio quality, at least in my area the sound is very clean without interferences even if I'm walking around :)

pycage

2009-10-14, 16:28

http://www.bredax.com/N900radiomockup.png

Here you have a little stupid improvement of the last mockup. The info could be taken after an scan (using RDS), or from data inserted by the user himself.

Thanks. I'm already working on the kinetic scrolling scale.

vitb

2009-10-14, 17:00

does not work for me even after hcitool scan. It appears to enable the microphone and transfer that over to headphones...

Same words about BCM i2c error and "probe of 3-0022 failed with error -5"

Device from the summit as well.

vitb

2009-10-14, 17:21

ok, update. It works after hcitool scan done from user account in xterm. Very weird, heh

pycage

2009-10-14, 17:42

Those with the probing error in the dmesg output, please try to run the attached program as root (gunzip first). It powers up Bluetooth and I2C. Then check its return code, and manually load the fmradio kernel module.

Be sure to unload the fmradio driver first; it stays loaded even when initialising fails.

rmmod radio-bcm2048

bcm2048-i2c 1
echo $?
insmod /lib/modules/current/radio-bcm2048.ko

Then check dmesg output again.

Finally you can unload the driver again and power down the I2C:

rmmod radio-bcm2048
bcm2048-i2c 0

Please report your findings, esp. the return code of the bcm2048-i2c invocation.

koivjann

2009-10-14, 19:06

I had the same symptom once as VITB. I shut down radio and BT which coms always on when starting FM radio and opened it again so it worked.

It's curios that the radio signal is very bad when using Nokia headphones with microphone. With headphones without microphone the radio signal is perfect and the volume level is a bit higher. It sounds like the tuning be a little beside the real frequency.

Capt'n Corrupt

2009-10-14, 19:17

Parallax scrolling on a scale? I cannot imagine how that would look like. Can you give an example?

I don't have an example, but think of something light in the background (eg. light, blurred out vertical lines similar to the foreground), that move slower than the foreground when you scroll the dial. Another idea is a dark background image (eg. user changable), similar to the Maemo5-widget-view-backdrop.

A simple effect, but should provide a very slick look.

}:^)~

vitb

2009-10-15, 13:33

lardman

2009-10-15, 14:36

Is anyone planning on enabling RDS reception to automatically save channel names? (or did I miss that in the preceding 9 pages?)

pycage

2009-10-16, 20:41

It works fine as far as I can see. No dmesg *****ing about i2c, looks okay.

So maybe we really just need a delay after activating Bluetooth and I2C.
Does this work fine every time you try?

pycage

2009-10-16, 20:44

Is anyone planning on enabling RDS reception to automatically save channel names? (or did I miss that in the preceding 9 pages?)

I'm planning to use the RDS eventually. It's exposed in the driver's sysfs interface, but honestly, I have no idea yet how to turn the values I receive from RDS into something readable.

If someone could take a look at how to use the RDS interface in /sys/bus/i2c/bcm2048-radio/ I'd be very happy. :)

marcinw

2009-10-16, 21:00

From the specs for the chip: "The FM subsystem can operate independently of Bluetooth".

Question: is it possible NOT to enable Bluetooth for enabling FM radio ?

It would be the best not to have additional radio device enabled and be visible...

pycage

2009-10-16, 21:08

marcinw

2009-10-16, 21:12

I think independently means just that they can operate at the same time without interfering each other. The driver doesn't load correctly if Bluetooth isn't powered. And the command to power up the I2C is also a HCI Bluetooth command, so it needs a working Bluetooth system running.

OK, the same question from newbie given other way: is it possible to block physically Bluetooth from sending data for example ? (excluding some methods like playing with kernel modules or something similar)

Once again: it would be nice to be "invisible" when listening FM radio

pycage

2009-10-16, 21:19

You can operate Bluetooth in hidden mode so that it won't make a connection unless you initiated it on the N900.

Maybe someone will find a way to not show the BT symbol and maybe even disable it completely for applications. But I don't know of a way to achieve this.
Powering down BT while the FM radio is playing gives weird sounds, so this would not work.

Master of Gizmo

2009-10-19, 18:50

So maybe we really just need a delay after activating Bluetooth and I2C.
Does this work fine every time you try?

I just added a "sleep 1" behind the "echo 1 > power_state" in the fmradio-tool script and now the program works reliable for me. It really seems to be a power-on timing issue.

pycage

2009-10-20, 07:35

Ah, great!
But I think a little bit of sleep after powering up the I2C before loading the driver would be good, too.
I'm going to update n900-fmrx-enabler.

pycage

2009-10-20, 07:40

Btw, the fmradio-tool script is not used by the FM radio app, or anything. It's just a root-only command line client for testing the radio, using the sysfs interface.
The FM radio app OTOH uses the V4L2 interface.

xn0wh3r3x

2009-10-23, 01:30

hi. if u could put a rec button(mp3 format if u can) and one for 10sec recording + send to GraceNote, Midomi, Shazam???

wazd

2009-10-29, 19:52

http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/10/29/preview-fm-radio-for-n900/

les_garten

2009-10-29, 20:02

optimaxxx

2009-10-30, 01:39

OK, here we go for the sublimely ridiculous, anyway to buffer the stream so that you can go back and hear something you may have missed? Not much of a buffer, but something. After spending a lot of time with a DVR, I keep reaching for the back up key while listening to radio in the car!
single greatest idea yet, nothing worse then listening to a great song, waiting for the presenter to tell you the name of song/artist and you miss it..

:'( i just wanna hear it one more time!

les_garten

2009-10-30, 01:42

single greatest idea yet, nothing worse then listening to a great song, waiting for the presenter to tell you the name of song/artist and you miss it..

:'( i just wanna hear it one more time!

I have an old XM Radio receiver, but my understanding is that the new ones do this. Helps with the moments when you say WTF did Stern just say?

tito_66

2009-10-30, 02:27

sorry but I did not read your post carefully but I just want to ask ..

does N900 have FM receiver or not ??

theflew

2009-10-30, 02:34

sorry but I did not read your post carefully but I just want to ask ..

does N900 have FM receiver or not ??

Yes it does.

les_garten

2009-10-30, 02:39

Yes it does.

Sir, I am impressed by your restraint!

Arif

2009-10-30, 13:45

A feature I'd love to see in the program is presets for different locations. E.g. if I select Amsterdam, radio station names for Amsterdam will be shown. If I select Ankara, radio stations from Ankara would be shown.

wazd

2009-10-31, 11:26

EIPI

2009-11-27, 13:15

Hmmm - I miss the FM Radio app from the N800 - it had city presets built-in. :(

iJanne

2009-11-27, 13:25

I can confirm FM reception works in N900, just get the FM radio app via the application installer or e.g. from maemo.nokia.com (Maemo Select).

RevdKathy

2009-11-27, 17:37

Anyone able to put the FM reciever on the desktop? I can't find it under apps or widgets. I have tuned it for Terry Wogan, but getting to it is a nuisance.

qole

2009-11-28, 07:15

Anyone able to put the FM reciever on the desktop? I can't find it under apps or widgets. I have tuned it for Terry Wogan, but getting to it is a nuisance.

Here it is on my desktop. No problem to add it ("Add shortcut").

Sorry for the wallpaper. Don't all guys like pictures of girls as wallpapers?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2727/4139649269_01f23f4bf7_o.png (http://www.flickr.com/photos/qole2/4139649269/)

RevdKathy

2009-11-28, 09:53

Here it is on my desktop. No problem to add it ("Add shortcut").

Sorry for the wallpaper. Don't all guys like pictures of girls as wallpapers?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2727/4139649269_01f23f4bf7_o.png (http://www.flickr.com/photos/qole2/4139649269/)

Now that's weird. I have the FM radio, and have tuned it in. But when I go to 'add shortcut' it doesn't show up! Is it time for Mo's first reboot?

(love the wallpaper - haven't really played with that much yet!)

iJanne

2009-11-28, 09:57

Now that's weird. I have the FM radio, and have tuned it in. But when I go to 'add shortcut' it doesn't show up! Is it time for Mo's first reboot?

(love the wallpaper - haven't really played with that much yet!)

One reason, I've noticed, that things don't appear on that list are because they are already on some other home screen. Could it have appeared on one of them?

I also have it on my add shortcut list so it can be added.

Remove? Reinstall from e.g. maemo.nokia.com / Maemo Select where I got it?

RevdKathy

2009-11-28, 18:46

One reason, I've noticed, that things don't appear on that list are because they are already on some other home screen. Could it have appeared on one of them?

You are a genius. And I am most definitely a bear of very little brain. ;)

les_garten

2009-11-28, 19:08

You are a genius. And I am most definitely a bear of very little brain. ;)

Well, by virtue of the fact that you are here makes you "smarter than the average Bear!"

christexaport

2009-12-02, 03:19

I have FM radio installed, but it has stopped working. Any clues? I've uninstalled and reinstalled. I've noticed mine no longer has the menu bar at the top, and I have to ctrl+backspace to exit.

jaysire

2009-12-02, 09:58

I have FM radio installed, but it has stopped working. Any clues? I've uninstalled and reinstalled. I've noticed mine no longer has the menu bar at the top, and I have to ctrl+backspace to exit.

My receiver doesn't work either and I've tried asking (in the wrong threads, I admit that), but no one seems to know what's up. I have no top menu like you and I am unable to select any frequencies. I can scroll the "background" with the bars, but the selected frequency never changes. Unless I pull out my headphones.

But even when I pull out the headphones and select 91.1 (a working frequency where I live) and put the headphones back in, I hear absolutely nothing, not even static. It's like the tuner isn't even active.

pycage

2009-12-02, 10:25

I have FM radio installed, but it has stopped working. Any clues? I've uninstalled and reinstalled. I've noticed mine no longer has the menu bar at the top, and I have to ctrl+backspace to exit.

Have you installed Fennec? There's a known conflict between Fennec and FM Radio, which will be fixed in the next version of FM Radio.

mehdiE

2009-12-02, 11:23

Have you installed Fennec? There's a known conflict between Fennec and FM Radio, which will be fixed in the next version of FM Radio.

That must have been the problem I had when I first tried the FM radio then. Cheers.

Haven't re-installed Fennec since I flashed to the new firmware so I tried FM radio again and it worked fine indeed.

On the UI side of things, I think that the user should be informed in some way or another that it is normal that bluetooth switches on when the application launches and that radio won't work if they switch off bluetooth.

I initially didn't know that the FM receiver and bluetooth were on the same chip (I only learned that later by reading this thread). There's no indication of that anywhere (not even on the application description page in the catalog). So when I saw the "Bluetooth switched on" system message displayed after having launched FM Radio, I assumed that it was some sort of bug with the application. I of course immediately switched off bluetooth... and the FM radio stopped playing. After that, it took me a while to get it to play again. Manually switching bluetooth back on didn't work. Restarting the application didn't work either (it launched but radio didn't play). It took quite a lot of switching bluetooth on and off, starting and restarting the FM radio app and plugging and unplugging the headphones before the FM radio eventually started to play again (not sure what was the trick to get it to work again).

I'm guessing I won't be the only user puzzled with the Bluetooth message and that I won't be the only one who will instinctively switch bluetooth back off straight away. Since there doesn't seem to be a way to remove the dependency on bluetooth, it would be worth displaying a message somewhere (perhaps on first startup) letting the user know about this.

jaysire

2009-12-02, 11:41

Have you installed Fennec? There's a known conflict between Fennec and FM Radio, which will be fixed in the next version of FM Radio.

I uninstalled fennec, uninstalled FM Radio and reinstalled FM Radio. Didn't help, so I suppose fennec tainted my system. Shame, because I can't be bothered to reflash the whole system right now. I'll use FM Radio in the future.

ewan

2009-12-02, 12:02

Have you installed Fennec? There's a known conflict between Fennec and FM Radio, which will be fixed in the next version of FM Radio.

Is there a bugzilla entry or something with some details of this? It might be useful for people trying to un-break their systems.

pycage

2009-12-02, 12:34

I uninstalled fennec, uninstalled FM Radio and reinstalled FM Radio. Didn't help, so I suppose fennec tainted my system. Shame, because I can't be bothered to reflash the whole system right now. I'll use FM Radio in the future.

You have to remove the Fennec repository catalog entry from the application manager.

pycage

2009-12-02, 12:35

Is there a bugzilla entry or something with some details of this? It might be useful for people trying to un-break their systems.

Yes.

https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6379

lululuu

2009-12-10, 16:17

Why couldn't I even install the pyfmradio? Either the mediabox...
Did I miss something?

Could anybody tell me how to install ? and is this the one we should download? https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=441&release_id=1512

Thanks a lot:confused:

pycage

2009-12-10, 17:01

pyFMRadio is just a module for developers and most likely not what you're looking for.
I think you're looking for http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/fmradio/
The FMRadio app is currently unavailable because of too many people reporting issues with the microphone. It will come back once the problem is fixed.

MediaBox OTOH is not yet available for the N900.

jaysire

2009-12-10, 22:20

You have to remove the Fennec repository catalog entry from the application manager.

Thanks! That sounds weird, that the mere existence of the repository is enough to break fm tuner, but ok.

Have there been any updates to fix the unmuting of the mic that is supposed to happen when we exit the program?

jessi3k3

2009-12-10, 22:38

Ahh, this explains why my mic ceased to work after using the fmradio app. It had me concerned for a bit. Even the latest version in extras-testing (11-15) seems to have the issue

dmcconachie

2009-12-12, 23:35

Ahh, this explains why my mic ceased to work after using the fmradio app. It had me concerned for a bit. Even the latest version in extras-testing (11-15) seems to have the issue

I had to reflash after installing FM Radio and borking my mic! Quite reluctant to try it again but really want the receiver! :confused:

pycage

2009-12-13, 18:52

I had to reflash after installing FM Radio and borking my mic! Quite reluctant to try it again but really want the receiver! :confused:

If rebooting didn't fix the issue, then I think there's some hardware issue with yours, too.

pycage

2009-12-13, 18:55

Have there been any updates to fix the unmuting of the mic that is supposed to happen when we exit the program?

2009.12.13 is going to the extras-testing QA in these hours. We're gonna test the mic issue thoroughly before releasing to extras.

anapospastos

2009-12-13, 19:53

No practical way, i mean change the code, to turn on fm reciever and turn off bluetooth??

kyle

2009-12-15, 04:35

If rebooting didn't fix the issue, then I think there's some hardware issue with yours, too.

I had to reflash mine because I couldn't _boot_! I think if reflashing fixes an issue, then it's reasonable to assume that your hardware is okay.

At this point I wouldn't touch the FM radio player with a ten foot pole.

https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6964

pycage

2009-12-15, 06:58

No practical way, i mean change the code, to turn on fm reciever and turn off bluetooth??

No, turning off Bluetooth doesn't do any good. Bluetooth and radio receiver are on one chip.

pycage

2009-12-15, 07:01

I had to reflash mine because I couldn't _boot_! I think if reflashing fixes an issue, then it's reasonable to assume that your hardware is okay.

At this point I wouldn't touch the FM radio player with a ten foot pole.

https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6964

I can see no relation there. Booting issues are usually filesystem issues. And turning off Bluetooth while the radio is playing doesn't touch any files. I think it's just an unlucky coincidence.

dustme.com

2009-12-17, 07:35

I tried to get the FM Radio App to work many times in the past few weeks. I finally installed the new app and it only works when the phone profile is on "General."

rldstover48

2010-02-06, 21:09

i downloaded version 2010.01.26 from extra devel last night as far as i can tell seems to be working better dial is white now instead of black is that correct do i have the right one

aiyaznz

2010-02-06, 21:14

Hey guys. I found a problem with the radio app. While im listening to radio in my car, whenever i get a call the person calling me can hear the radio for few seconds and is very load. I hope this can be fixed in the future. thanx

romanianusa

2010-02-06, 21:25

i downloaded version 2010.01.26 from extra devel last night as far as i can tell seems to be working better dial is white now instead of black is that correct do i have the right one

correcto!!

sicelo

2010-09-08, 10:13

Hi everyone.
Hope I'm not clouding the topic, but reading this thread has aroused my interest in the Nokia N900 and Linux. As a result, I am putting it on my budget (of course, it costs a lot more here in Swaziland :-( )
For my PC, I am currently downloading Debian Linux, and will soon forget about Windows.

Waleksei

2011-01-08, 16:44

Hello, nice to see this little issue have allready been solved. I am only posting because I share the interest of listening FM-broadcasts by mobile phone;
I have used my phone many years now at my work in a noisy factory, where I need to use ear protection. It's very convinient to plug in a phone to the ear protectors ( which have loudspeakers ) and then I can both listen for FM-radio and mp3-music - and I can use my phone at the same time with hands-free. So this is must for me, while I spend eight hours a day in this situation.

Perhaps bying N900 anyway - now!