Utterly Indifferent In Regards to ASR / Portrait

[JayOnThaBeat]

The fact that there are two separate threads happening simultaneously in regards to this subject seems very silly to me.

Having a third makes it even sillier.

:D

Thoughts?

[Soulfarmer]

I think users that had N810 or earlier NIT's won't mind the lack of portrait and people who haven't been using NIT's before do mind. You really cannot please every single Nokia buyer with just one device. I think portrait would be nice, but for deity's sake don't delay release just cuz of that. And yeah, third thread is nice since there should only be two kinds of opinions, for and against, so this is nice for people who are neither :)

[JayOnThaBeat]

Right on, soul man!

I personally think that it will be a gradual process. Maemo 5 will slowly evolve into a rotatable environment.



|||EDIT

Just wait until Maemo 6... mofo won't stop spinnin!

[christexaport]

Then you don't realize how helpful such features can be to a mobile of the N900's size. And there is a difference between ASR and portrait support.

Fremantle already supports portrait mode, but only for third party apps and the phone app. What many of us are asking for is that the desktops, menus, and all included default apps included in the device (those not added by the user) allow rotation and full functionality in either orientation. This is what is considered ASR.

I think its telling that this subject is actually not new, having caused some debate as far back as July of 2008, according to THIS (https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3519). Many like myself believe Nokia won't ever add it to Fremantle, only giving support to the third party apps. Its been since July of 2008, afterall, and all Nokia's said is ASR will be in Harmattan. Nothing about it in Fremantle. Not even a peep of official support.

So we don't know what we're getting into. Confidence in Nokia isn't very strong in the Symbian world anymore due to the lackluster devices released since the N95. Many worry they will be left in the lurch on ASR just the same. I guess its panic. We see something we've been waiting for since 2007, and now that its close, we want to make it perfect now, and we're doing it on foreign soil. Its just growing pains.

I'm a self starter myself, and have a hard time waiting for anything, especially if I'm not assured it will ever come. I'll just have to learn to be patient.

[christexaport]

I think users that had N810 or earlier NIT's won't mind the lack of portrait and people who haven't been using NIT's before do mind. You really cannot please every single Nokia buyer with just one device. I think portrait would be nice, but for deity's sake don't delay release just cuz of that. And yeah, third thread is nice since there should only be two kinds of opinions, for and against, so this is nice for people who are neither :)
I don't know. If Nokia announced a date for adding ASR support for the N900, preorders would blow through the roof! I wouldn't delay the launch of any open source device, either.

I ordered one without ASR, but would get 2 more if it did. Its the Symbian users and a few old head tablet guys that have been patching in a solution that want it. Make the N900 ASR, and the smartphone and tablet communities happily unite, and everyone is happy. I promise. Its the only thing besides QWERTY over T9 I've heard anyone moan about on the N900.

I think its 96% perfect. Just add T9, ASR, and a bigger screen, and its a Moses Phone!:D

[Soulfarmer]

Then you don't realize how helpful such features can be to a mobile of the N900's size. And there is a difference between ASR and portrait support.


You bring that up as it was universal for every single user how helpful something is or isn't?

I think yelling wolf enough times doesn't make it appear if it isn't there...

EDIT: I know this should be somewhere else but still, Chris, please don't call people unsupportive to your cause if it is not their cause also. And this thread was supposed to be indifferent in regards of orientation :)

[christexaport]

Soulfarmer,
By all means is no feature universally helpful to all. But if it helps some and hurts none, isn't that something that is only helpful to the community as a whole? Growing the Maemo user base would only benefit Maemo, and if ASR were added, it wouldn't affect those that don't want it, only those that do.

Those that do are the smartphone users (mostly Symbian) and some old head Maemo patchers waiting for an official solution. If it gets added, two enormous communities unite instantly! How great would that be? I'd love it.

I read this in a Bugzilla someone shared with me. This is from a Paul M:

Answering Quim Gil

"Personally, the whole point of the nokia tablet is to be a flexible platform to
allow a community to use the device in ways not conceived by the original
maker. Nokia have received a lot of "free" help from the community in promoting
the tablet, as well as debugging/testing and developing the tablets - it's a
symbiotic relationship almost."

We're just trying to extend the functionality for something we hold dear to us. I love mobiles ALOT, and center my life around them. This is who I am, and its important to some of us, probably too important.

@ Jayonthabeat,
I'm hell on devices. My N95 8gb was in my sweaty hands almost 12 hrs per day with heavy use and beat it up training my pit bull. Before the economy fell, I changed devices every 3-4 months just because of wear. Since 2006, I've had the N90, N80, N73, N93, N93i, N95-1, N81, N82, E90, N95-2, E71, N78, N97, and am waiting for the N900. I'm so anxious...

I don't use desktop software unless I'm in the studio. I'm a mobile freak, for real! "Ax about me!" LOL
...by the way, when will i hear some tracks? we need to get together and do something.

[allnameswereout]

My horoscope mentioned silly indifference too. I feel aligned. Hmm, or not. Whatever.

[range]

I feel aligned.

Horizontically or vertically?

[YoDude]

The fact that there are two separate threads happening simultaneously in regards to this subject seems very silly to me.

Having a third makes it even sillier.

:D

Thoughts?

Me and the rest of the indifferent community thank you for the leadership that you have shown.
Perhaps you should post a small announcement in all threads with the word "indifferent" in them.

Write it once and just cut and paste it everywhere else. It'll save time. :)

[zehjotkah]

Fremantle already supports portrait mode, but only for third party apps and the phone app. What many of us are asking for is that the desktops, menus, and all included default apps included in the device (those not added by the user) allow rotation and full functionality in either orientation. This is what is considered ASR.

No, that is not AutomaticScreenRotate (ASR).. ASR is, if the screen changes automatically the orientation based on the accelerometer input.

But what is, if you're lying in your bed sideways, like this (http://images.google.de/images?hl=de&um=1&sa=1&q=7+zonen+matratze&btnG=Bilder-Suche&aq=f&oq=&start=0) an you want to surf the web or just read something... The screen would change the orientation to portrait mode... wtf?!

I would love to see a function in which the front camera would detect the orientation of your face and based on that change the screen orientation... xD

[GeraldKo]

Happy Birthday, Jay!

(I hope saying that doesn't make me your *****. In fact, I assure you, it doesn't. But Happy Birthday. If it's your birthday.)

[daperl]

But what is, if you're lying in your bed sideways, like this (http://images.google.de/images?hl=de&um=1&sa=1&q=7+zonen+matratze&btnG=Bilder-Suche&aq=f&oq=&start=0) an you want to surf the web or just read something... The screen would change the orientation to portrait mode... wtf?!

I would love to see a function in which the front camera would detect the orientation of your face and based on that change the screen orientation... xD

I repost this logic here because it's simple, it works, and most importantly, the user doesn't have to configure anything. The n900 should be able to do this.

This is the ASR logic on the iPhone and the iPod touch. It allows you to lay on either shoulder and keep the device in landscape mode. I happily use it every day:

If in landscape mode:
if home button on opposite side of rotation:
don't rotate screen to portrait mode
else:
rotate screen to portrait mode

For example, if the home button is on the right and I rotate counter-clockwise, the screen will stay in landscape mode. If the home button is on the left and I rotate counter-clockwise, the screen will rotate to portrait mode.

[daperl]

I'm indifferent to your indifference. :p

Happy birthday, b*tch.

[qwerty12]

Because daperl couldn't do it properly: Happy birthday, JayOnTheBeat.

("B1tch" is automatically implied when I mention your name)

[daperl]

You two bítches don't even add up to one of these bítches. That makes both of you li'l bítches. Or me an old bítch...

Back to college football. Ducks rule, Cal blows.

[Texrat]

If Nokia announced a date for adding ASR support for the N900, preorders would blow through the roof!

I'm skeptical. Yeah, it's cool but I can't see it making that big a difference. Unless you have access to user wishlist data I haven't seen?

EDIT: O crap. Asking for data violates the spirit of indifference. I'd apologize but I don't really care that much.

[christexaport]

Me and the rest of the indifferent community thank you for the leadership that you have shown.
Perhaps you should post a small announcement in all threads with the word "indifferent" in them.

Write it once and just cut and paste it everywhere else. It'll save time. :)
I think Obama said it best in reference to Kanye, and it applies to you as well.

[christexaport]

DOH!
(Nice band, by the way, Jay)

[christexaport]

I'm skeptical. Yeah, it's cool but I can't see it making that big a difference. Unless you have access to user wishlist data I haven't seen?

EDIT: O crap. Asking for data violates the spirit of indifference. I'd apologize but I don't really care that much.
I guess all of the topics about ASR on various forums including those I've started or been in here, the negative comments in all the other phone related site about the N900 being landscape only or two handed only, and the expectations of smartphone users isn't enough. The fact that S60 was and is the best seller possibly because its designed for one hand in most instances could be a clue. One of the caveats with the N97 was that it lost some of its one handed wizardry from 3rd Edition.

I'm really in tune with the various smartphone communities, especially Symbian, and while the N900 is the talk of the town, you can bet that all of the former Symbian bloggers moving into the Maemo space will be rudely awakened when they learn that the N900 isn't the on-the-go utility monster that was S60, and mostly because of lack of ASR in the base of the device.

Apps with ASR are ok, but the N900 includes such a large feature set, most of the apps people use on their phones won't be necessary, but using two hands to Tweet, check MySpace and Facebook, IM, and the like are a downgrade no matter how you cut it. Mark it down in ink, I tell ya.

[christexaport]

Hey mod!

Dude, merge all three of these threads already!

It's the same people over and over posting in the pro-, neg-, and indifferent threads.

It's quite maddening.
why not just, oh, I don't know, not go in those threads? Just a thought.:rolleyes: Gotta go!:p

[JayOnThaBeat]

why not just, oh, I don't know, not go in those threads? Just a thought.:rolleyes: Gotta go!:p

I could say the same to you.

You created a pro thread because you are clearly in favor.

People created separate threads against it and indifferent to it to allow you to have your own space to promote the idea, and you've managed to infiltrate both of them.

Let people have their opinions (or lack thereof)!!!

[YoDude]

I could say the same to you.

You created a pro thread because you are clearly in favor.

People created separate threads against it and indifferent to it to allow you to have your own space to promote the idea, and you've managed to infiltrate both of them.

Let people have their opinions (or lack thereof)!!!

And please don't cross post. :)

[R-R]

It's funny how we have 3 threads for something that should have been a freakin' poll / vote ! :P

[Texrat]

Well, it is a Brainstorm item...

[JayOnThaBeat]

It's funny how we have 3 threads for something that should have been a freakin' poll / vote ! :P

Well, christexaport started the pro-thread.

Then, people started to disagree with him.

He asked them not to post in the thread if they disagree with him.

So, someone started a negative-thread to have a place to speak their peace.

Then, Chris decided that he had to go to that thread and explain to them why they are wrong for not wanting it.

Then, everybody starting cross-posting like a mofo.

So, I started this thread as somewhat of a joke to have a place for everyone else to go.... a place where you didn't have to pick a side.... a safe-haven from the madness.

Unfortunately, people didn't seem to get it, and picked the argument up again, in here.

<sigh>

[Texrat]

No good deed goes unpunished.

[GeraldKo]

Advocacy is for people who can't handle indifference.

[christexaport]

Why do we even need "against" threads? I'm totally baffled why users would attemp to block progress. And I read the thread to see what made haters grow, and I saw it wasn't even talking about not having ASR, just talking badly about me and putting misinformation about my idea out there, so I said something. MY thread was titled "HELP PROMOTE..." ASR, so I was just asking things stayed on topic. Talking s..t about me isn't what I'd call being against ASR, just a chance to be a hater, which is the flavor of the month, I see.

As Kat Williams says, "if you have haters, you must be doing something right." If anyone can hate on Texrat, I'm ok with it, because I totally know what type of guy he is. You have to be on some crazy stuff to hate on him... So I'm in great company.

[christexaport]

...God, this is like high school all over again, only I'm not carrying a gun.

[christexaport]

jay, you're a mess. We have to hang out sometime. I totally get you. Just enjoy life and have fun. I get it.

[Texrat]

jay, you're a mess. We have to hang out sometime. I totally get you. Just enjoy life and have fun. I get it.

Jay is me on steroids. I apologize for the accidental cloning, but I won't take the blame for the 'roids.

[Texrat]

I take that as a compliment.

(I actually have 0.3 less posts per day than you ;))

Keep an eye on that metric. Your presence here is gonna help me wind down. :D

[christexaport]

(frankly, I'm pretty surprised you were obliged the more I think about it)

You're not going to please all of the people all of the time.

maybe I asked nicely and didn't let them sidetrack me that day. I had to dress up and act more professional to get the flamers off my back. I'm a flamer too, and I know what douses the best of them.

Now I'll need a blood and urine sample for performance enhancing drugs from you. (and not the little blue pill, before you try that one...) Texrat on steroids. That's not a pretty picture. You can't out talk or whip him. :p

[GeraldKo]

Chris, the Against thread has seemed to me to have lots that is on topic. And this Indifference thread, well, it's a whole other sort of thing. But, in case you forgot, here's what you said on the thread you started:


Read the thread title. PLEASE DON'T post here if you DON'T have an interest in having ASR on the N900 in the future. You're free to make a thread in support of NOT allowing it, but I'm trying to gather supporters, not dissidents.

Please don't disrupt the focus of the thread. I don't want this to turn into a debate.

Well, Chris, I didn't really want to debate people who wanted a screen on the N900 that was smaller than the one on the earlier NITs. I just wanted everyone to agree with me. People who think MMS is the most important thing for Nokia to tackle for the N900 probably wish everyone agreed with them, too.

I didn't see a preponderance of anti-Chris posts in the two unsupportive threads. Heck, Kanzir started off the "Glad there is no universal portrait support" thread with a very civil, non-ranting, well-articulated explanation, particularly from the point of view of a developer, as to why he doesn't care for it. Most the posts have been on topic and measured. Most the posts here, on the Indifference thread, have been more to the humorous side of things.

The most I've seen of what could be called personally directed posts were directly in response to your asking why people were reacting negatively to your passion for ASR and your approach; but, Chris, you asked for Chris-specific responses with that request. Just like you directly asked people who didn't agree with your ASR priority to start an explicit anti-ASR thread.

It isn't like any of us get to tell Nokia what to do anyway. So relax. You've sort of put yourself into "Chinese handcuffs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_handcuffs)" -- the harder you try to get things going your way, the more it works against you. Personally, I find you strident. Over time, if you're also helpful and knowledgeable, I'll probably come to like you; but your stridency is what shines brightest right now.

You aren't the first person here to rub others the wrong way. As an example, I'll confess that I have often found General Antilles rude (in fact, I've suspected he has some sort of virtual-world Asperger's Syndrome); but I quite like him, nonetheless. (And not only do I like him, in this virtual-world way or relating, but I very highly value what he has to say.) There have also been times when he's rabidly disagreed with me, but I knew not to take it personally. People disagreed with you about ASR and, it seems to me, you (foolishly) took it personally.

In my experience, it's extraordinarily rare here that anyone's attacks are intended personally. In fact, I generally find the people in this forum to be a remarkably amiable, and frequently delightfully funny and irreverent, group. My guess is that if you can go with the flow a bit, argue your points with less stridency (even while with equal passion), and recognize that almost no disagreements are aimed at you personally, you'll come to see this forum's members in a similar light.

[RipTorn]

I'll just have to learn to be patient.

Patience is key.

[JayOnThaBeat]

I nominate GeraldKo to be the official Maemo Good-Will Ambassador... when's the vote for that??

[Texrat]

I nominate GeraldKo to be the official Maemo Good-Will Ambassador... when's the vote for that??

He'll have to beat up Den in USA for it.

[texaslabrat]

Personally, I could give a "rat's" *** about ASR. I'm about as indifferent as you can get. If it's there...great...maybe I'll use it at some point if the mood strikes me. If it's not there, I'm still going to use the app just like I use apps in my current N800. I like the fact that the phone application has a portrait mode...since it mimics the functionality of my current phone. For everything else, I really don't care.

Do I get a cookie for being on-topic? :D

[sjgadsby]

Do I get a cookie for being on-topic?

Would you accept a cheese sandwich instead? They're quite popular.

[GeraldKo]

I thought of another flaw, Chris, in your request that dissenters not contribute to your original ASR thread. I arrived at this insight through introspection! :eek:

After the first little bit, I haven't even visited the original thread that you started. Maybe you would have convinced me that universal (or broader) portrait mode was a worthy priority had I kept returning to that thread. But I felt excluded from it, and so I only looked at the Anti and Indifferent threads.

So, if my response to the separation of pro and anti to different threads is typical, it means you ended up with less chance of convincing anyone that wasn't "in the choir" to begin with. It's sort of like you created a sort of Fox News channel!

[texaslabrat]

Would you accept a cheese sandwich instead? They're quite popular.

ooooo.....cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese! Yes, please!

[JayOnThaBeat]

ooooo.....cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese! Yes, please!

Ha!

He's a rat.

Rats like cheese.

I get it!

[christexaport]

GeraldKO,
I started the "Help" thread because dissenting developers and old head users were becoming an impediment, and fighting and threats (from me) had begun to fly. Those posts have since been removed, so you don't know why I just don't like some guys here, and the same of them towards me, but it wasn't friendly. I got called names, called others some as well, and just wanted a quiet place were there was more work and less debate.

I can't tell others what to post, but I asked nicely, and it worked for the most part. I posted in the indifferent and anti threads, but not as a means to disrupt or demean anyone. I just tried to represent myself better and clarify some misinformation attributed to me wrongly.

But its old news now. The ball is in motion, and that's all I'd asked. Its in the hands of those capable of getting it done now.

[christexaport]

Are you the same Gerald KO from Euless that does MMA training?? This is Streetz if so! I'm not fighting anymore, but I'm looking to roll somewhere again. Know anyone cheap?

[GeraldKo]

Are you the same Gerald KO from Euless that does MMA training?? This is Streetz if so! I'm not fighting anymore, but I'm looking to roll somewhere again. Know anyone cheap?

Nope, not me. (I'd never even heard of Euless.)

[christexaport]

OH. alright. Well there's someone with your name beating the hell out of guys for a living in the Dallas Fort Worth area. Gerald KO is a beast in the local MMA scene.

[mece]

@JayOnThaBeat I'm getting really tired of these offensive threads. I mean was there some personal vendetta of yours that made you omit the obvious choice of ham sandwich from the polls? You cheese sandwich lovers are always hatin'

Regarding the topic.. or rather not the topic, but the opposite of the topic - the portrait mode/asr.
I don't mind the landscape only, but I'd love to see portrait mode for the desktop, dashboard, browser and messaging stuff. I don't mind if some stuff can't be rotated, but I'd like to tweet, im and text with one hand since I often have to carry at least one of my triplets.

[JayOnThaBeat]

@JayOnThaBeat I'm getting really tired of these offensive threads. I mean was there some personal vendetta of yours that made you omit the obvious choice of ham sandwich from the polls? You cheese sandwich lovers are always hatin'

Regarding the topic.. or rather not the topic, but the opposite of the topic - the portrait mode/asr.
I don't mind the landscape only, but I'd love to see portrait mode for the desktop, dashboard, browser and messaging stuff. I don't mind if some stuff can't be rotated, but I'd like to tweet, im and text with one hand since I often have to carry at least one of my triplets.

...no one's stopping you from adding the meat of your choice to the cheese sandwich.

jerk.

[mece]

...no one's stopping you from adding the meat of your choice to the cheese sandwich.

jerk.

Aha! Thus gathering votes for your evil cheese sandwich scheme! I'm so on to you!

fop.

[christexaport]

ham might be offensive to Muslims. Maybe a lamb sandwich?

[ysss]

Count me in this camp too...
I used to care about it at one point, but all the unnecessary bickering and childishness were just a major turn off to support that.

[christexaport]

ysss, you don't like cheese?? How about ham?

Seriously bro, we're closing that door. Its dead. We're making lunch at 6:25am. Wan't a hog head cheese sandwich?

[ysss]

@chris: not everything is about you, man :) maybe it is on your forum (srsly??).. but please don't try to make everything about you, here.

[timsamoff]

Whoa. I missed a birthday party? Dang... :(

Tim

[Texrat]

It was just Jay's. No biggie.

[christexaport]

wow, texrat... you really love this guy, huh?

[christexaport]

@chris: not everything is about you, man :) maybe it is on your forum (srsly??).. but please don't try to make everything about you, here.

:rolleyes:

[Texrat]

wow, texrat... you really love this guy, huh?

He is my clone, so I have to care at least a little bit... but no more than DNA demands.

[christexaport]

I'm ready to mutate my DNA and turn into the other David Banner. The green one!

[Texrat]

No need. Just step back, figure out the flow here, and dive in where/how appropriate. Fighting the flow is too damned exhausting IMO. ;)

[qwerty12]

wow, texrat... you really love this guy, huh?

Well, to be fair, it's hard not to love a guy that is everyone's bïtch. Right, Jay? :p

[Texrat]

He's not mine. Have you seen his picture??? *shudder*

I make him ride in the trunk.

[christexaport]

that's where *****es supposed to ride. Not that I'm calling you a *****, Jay. I'm too volatile for that.

I'm hungry. Let me go heat up an AngryMan Dinner...

[allnameswereout]

Why do we even need "against" threads? I'm totally baffled why users would attemp to block progress.These conservatives, I'm tellin' ya, they're up to something!!

[Soulfarmer]

Why do we even need "against" threads? I'm totally baffled why users would attemp to block progress.

Would you like to cut down rainforests to make a highway? Yeah I know, extreme example, but not everything is progress, and not everything is seen the way you see it.

[christexaport]

I just asked a question, and not for your shade tree philosophy. Do you have an answer to the question, or what? You guys are amazing and so effin smart, but you have zip to say to the question. I have my opinion, and I listen to you guys all day spout yours. So I'm mr opinionated and vocal from now on. Get used to it and buzz off if it rubs you the wrong way.

Just my opinion, which I just found is allowed here.

[allnameswereout]

Would you like to cut down rainforests to make a highway? Yeah I know, extreme example, but not everything is progress, and not everything is seen the way you see it.Right, a blade cuts both ways.

Neglecting the potential influence for users who like no ASR (a potential valid argument but not one I'm addressing here) implementing ASR for all applications costs a huge amount of time and effort which, in turn, cost money and resources which would otherwise be spend on other aspects instead. I, for one, rather see ASR enabled for specific applications on a case-by-case scenario, seeing Brainstorm used to outline the most important & requested applications for such. Likewise, I find Microsoft Office (doc/xls/ppt/...) compatibility important, but read-only support is much easier than read/write support. Same with MMS.

[JayOnThaBeat]

Well, to be fair, it's hard not to love a guy that is everyone's bïtch. Right, Jay? :p

Snap again. That's it, now I have to show everyone the real pronunciation of your handle.

[kweer-tee-twelv]

From now on whenever someone sees / says your handle, that's how it will be pronounced.


He's not mine. Have you seen his picture??? *shudder*

I make him ride in the trunk.

I prefer the trunk. The aroma up front isn't exactly lilacs.......


that's where *****es supposed to ride. Not that I'm calling you a *****, Jay. I'm too volatile for that.

I'm hungry. Let me go heat up an AngryMan Dinner...


Wow, a post where you don't mention Automatic Screen Rotation or portrait mode. You're making real progress.




:D