View Full Version : Two extensive previews of N900 prototype
Two extensive hands-on previews on N900 proto devices! Overall very positive, but let's wait for the release for answers. :)
Lot's of photos, with nice comparison to E90 and other phones and interesting trivia about the history of Hildon
http://my-symbian.com/other/preview_n900.php
Huge amount of work, thank you so much Michal!
Eldar's properly translated preview (original (http://www.mobile-review.com/review/nokia-maemo5.shtml) discussed in this thread (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31996)), no translated conclusion as of yet (29.9.)
http://www.mobile-review.com/review/nokia-maemo5-en.shtml
Thank you Eldar! (But next time do mention it being a preview of a proto device.:) )
ps. As an example, Michal states a major issue being "storage memory for installable applications limited to ridiculous 256 MB, all the remaining gigabytes available for documents and data files only" whereas Eldar says "The N900 has 2Gb reserved for user applications (as opposed to 90Mb in earlier firmware versions)." So these are prototype devices and there are a lot of details not to be worried about too much at this point without contrary evidence.
spinnukur
2009-09-29, 08:00
It's really disturbing if Nokia keeps installed applications to a max of 256mb
Stskeeps
2009-09-29, 08:04
It's really disturbing if Nokia keeps installed applications to a max of 256mb
Check out the /opt discussions. This isn't -that- big a problem.
debernardis
2009-09-29, 08:26
Great review from Michal (as always) :-)
javispedro
2009-09-29, 08:37
The My-Symbian review is great! (Save for the few tech details he gets wrong).
I am now in "want-device" mode. :D
Quoth the Jerz:
Lauch X Terminal, enable root access, and do whatever you want, just like on a Linux desktop. Possibilities include, but are not limited to, enabling USB host mode
stooooop teeeasing uuuuus!
bheetebrij
2009-09-29, 10:03
ps. As an example, Michal states a major issue being "storage memory for installable applications limited to ridiculous 256 MB, all the remaining gigabytes available for documents and data files only" whereas Eldar says "The N900 has 2Gb reserved for user applications (as opposed to 90Mb in earlier firmware versions)." So these are prototype devices and there are a lot of details not to be worried about too much at this point without contrary evidence.
In a video with Jussi and others, they addressed this issue... you can find the video and a text summary here (http://mynokiablog.com/2009/09/16/video-nokia-n900-qa-with-jussi-makinen-and-maemo-community-guys/)
In short they mention the following:
"44:50 Gerry: Internal memory is only 65MB of free. [That’s something the community has noticed as well, Nokia have responded to. There’s a thread on the mailing list where the lower level architecture design guys like myself who are professional software engineers as their day job, are collaborating with Nokia in a very open way to find a solution to this. There is going to be a solution, along the lines of installing to mem card as N800 but out of the box. We’re just discussing where the work happens. Is it with community packaging applications or do we try with Nokia and get a solution that will make community’s life easier….in terms for end user experience, there will be at least 1GB."
bheetebrij
2009-09-29, 10:06
What worries me as well is the fact that he says the screen is very sensitive to scratches...
Jerz:
"The only thing that worries me when it comes to N900 display is its resistence to scratches and other damages. And it seems to be quite poor. I got the device without any protective case and the display got some awful scratches in just one day, and that's only because some sand grains got into the pocket I kept it in. So a good screen protector or soft carrying case seem to be a must. OK, now..."
What brand screen protectors work well while not affecting screen clarity and sensitivity? I am complete newby in this...
benny1967
2009-09-29, 10:17
The only thing that worries me when it comes to N900 display is its resistence to scratches and other damages. And it seems to be quite poor. I got the device without any protective case and the display got some awful scratches in just one day, and that's only because some sand grains got into the pocket I kept it in. So a good screen protector or soft carrying case seem to be a must.
:(
very bad.
from the first link:
What's not:
...
-Nokia, PLEASE, add voice dialing!
What does this even mean ? I though N900 support normal calls and also voip.
alexisazen
2009-09-29, 10:28
It involves you saying "peter" and your phone dialling Peter's number.
Thanks for the links, PetriS!
I really enjoyed reading the first one. THAT's how a PREview is supposed to be written.
Eldar, on the contrary, writes stuff like "I hope that after the New Year the next major software update will fix this issue somehow.", once again giving the impression that what he has in his hands is final...
He should really learn a lesson or two from Michal.
kanishou
2009-09-29, 11:16
It's odd, I even made the "key test" on my (old) device and couldn't get any scratches to appear yet.
The screen has been adjusted several times though in newer models, so it is hard to say what the final screen is like.
In any case, I am personally not going to bother with a case or screen protector. I want the "untainted" experience. :)
What worries me as well is the fact that he says the screen is very sensitive to scratches...
Even this might change for the production version. As a lame comparison, see the difference of materials for example in the structure of keyboard back plates of Michal (http://my-symbian.com/other/grafika/n900_16.jpg)'s and Eldar (http://www.mobile-review.com/review/image/nokia/rx51-n900/pic13.jpg)'s. Other mechanical changes may well be possible too.
I found both reviews interesting, they seem to be aimed at different people. Eldars review seems to state predictions as fact, but I have a feeling this is something caused by the translation, so I wouldn't read too much in to it. For me, the mobile-review (p)review seems to have forgotten the most important part of maemo - it's a full on evil-robot linux distro!! The other stuff is just bonus. my-symbian touched the subject at least..
McChicken
2009-09-29, 11:54
The My Symbian Preview was GREAT reading...
The media player looks like canola (or inspired by canola).
See Michal's review
http://my-symbian.com/other/preview_n900.php?page=3
Raubtier
2009-09-29, 12:06
eldar forget the conclusion, its missing..
zkyevolved
2009-09-29, 12:53
I read everything Michal had to write, and I personally loved it. It made me feel very confident about the device. But as always, I'm going to have to have it in my hands to text and see if it's any good. The screen part was a little discouraging, but I had planned on buying a screen guard as soon as possible. I'd opt for Zagg, but they haven't made it yet. Until I get something, I'm going to have to take SUPER CARE of my N900 :D.
I was a little sad that he didn't include the battery life of the prototype. I hope it'll last an entire day with EDGE. But I don't mind keeping an extra battery on hand. But I do hate having to turn off my device.
That said, Michal is an awesome reviewer :) He did a top notch review! :D Thanks Michal!
Markosib
2009-09-29, 13:06
Fantastic (p)review Michal....cheers.
That review Michal Jerz did ( http://my-symbian.com/other/preview_n900.php ) was pretty thorough. Good stuff and well work reading.
I found this very encouraging in Michal Jerz' article:
However, there are signs that work is being done and that there will be a more advanced version of Maps when the device starts shipping. For instance, I could find audio files for voice navigation, which suggests that we should expect this feature to be available.
I hope he is right. :)
That review Michal Jerz did ( http://my-symbian.com/other/preview_n900.php ) was pretty thorough. Good stuff and well work reading.
+1
... balanced
...The following screenshot shows output of "free" command in N900's X-Terminal, listing total, used and free RAM and swap (virtual memory) after a fresh restart. As the amount of free RAM (52 MB) probably doesn't look too impressive at first sight for a Symbian OS phone user, a word of explanation is needed here. Unlike on Symbian OS, where physical RAM is the only available operating memory, Linux (and so the N900) additionally uses swap, i.e. "virtual memory". In huge simplification, active tasks and processes are kept in RAM while inactive (or infrequently used) data are moved to swap. The N900 not only has additional 768 Megabytes of swap, but it is stored in a dedicated, fast NAND memory. That's why the size of free RAM is not even half as important as on Symbian OS, and when checking how much memory you have left for running additional applications you can safely SUM UP the remaining RAM *and* swap, just like on the screenshot below where total free RAM+swap is well over 800 MB. And in case of the N900 it'll always mean hundreds of megabytes, even after many hours or days of uptime and multiple tasks running. When you launch a lot (and I mean A LOT) of apps the machine may slow down a little bit (due to swap handling being slower than real RAM, and the system having to copy data back and forth between swap and RAM) just like e.g. Windows slows down when its pagefile is heavily used, but that's actually the only negative effect. Don't expect to see any "Out of memory" errors on this machine. I tried really hard to get one, and I ended up having over TWO DOZEN of applications running at once and multiple browser windows open, with some 30-40% performance drop being the only result and the system still letting me start new tasks and open new windows... so I just gave up....
The best explanation yet, imho...
My-Symbian.com
2009-09-29, 13:36
Hi guys,
First of all, I'm so glad that you liked the preview. It surely isn't perfect but I wanted to make it available ASAP so it didn't go through the usual verification. My goal was to focus on the UI and built-in functionality, hence so many screenshots showing most of available apps, menus, functions, etc. This was meant to let visitors know how the device looks and feels.
I haven't written much about things like battery life, performance, etc. because my experience with testing protos tells me that such things are usually THE LAST to optimize and differences between protos and commerical units are often so considerable that it really does not have any sense to elaborate on a battery life of a proto when final units will become available in a matter of just a couple of weeks. Actually, I wasn't even sure if I should post sample videos and images as they're also subject to improvements. For instance, the second video with noticeable frame drops must have been affected by some swap activity in the background, which won't take place if e.g. memory usage gets optimized a little bit.
The preview will be extended and updated once I get hold of a newer firmware or a commercial unit.
Regarding the small storage capacity for software installation, I am well aware of the /opt (actually, home/opt) directory providing some 2 GB worth additional space. But the problem is that it is NOT being used by installable software packages. The only software that installed there was Dataviz' Documents-To-Go whereas (if I recall correctly) the "guideline" is that all apps larger than 500 kB (including all dependencies) should go there. Apparently, this is being ignored. Even the "official" Bounce Evolution (17.5 MB) installed under root ("/") and ate a lot of that precious space.
In my opinion, this should not depend on developers' choice as lots of developers will be ignoring it and make their software install under rootfs. There should be either a user-selectable option where to install a package, or the system might do it by itself, i.e. automatically choose /opt if a package is larger than e.g. those 500 kB. Otherwise, it just won't work....
Regarding the "few tech details I got wrong", I'll be grateful for pointing them out so that I can correct them. The preview will surely be read by thousands of people so it'd be good if the information posted was entirely correct, not to mislead anyone. I got the device without any information or support, so everything is based just on my own observations and I surely could have gotten some things wrong...
Finally, regarding the screen, my observation is based on a fact that I had two phones in that pocket: the N900 and the 5800 XM. The N900 got a couple of awful scratches (gosh, if I knew, I would protect it somehow!) while the 5800 didn't get a single one, which leads me to a conclusion that N900's display is more fragile. But I may be wrong and it might have been just a coincidence... Nevertheless, a good screen protector or a good carrying case definitely won't hurt the N900 even if what I wrote about its screen wasn't right ;-)
All in all, I am so obsessed about the device that I am going to launch a separate site (My-Maemo.com) for it. I don't remember being that excited about any mobile gadget since the early Communicators or the first UIQ 2.x phones :-)
P.S. I've heard about enabling the USB host not being possible on the N900 due to some hardware restrictions, but I kept it in the preview until I verify it myself :-)
Best regards,
Michal Jerz
http://My-Symbian.com
Welcome aboard...
Your review is linked to from > here < (http://howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1574491) as well if you don't mind. http://www.clicksmilies.com/auswahl/ernaehrung004.gif
Raubtier
2009-09-29, 13:47
thx for the extensive review michal!
one question: the contact shortcuts (the pictures of people) seem really big, is there a way to make them smaller?
Michal's preview was well written and amazingly comprehensive and took care to point out this was a pre-prod device. I could not have asked for a better confirmation that my decision to pre-order was well founded. The best line of the review for me however was
the N900 truly impressed me with its FANTASTIC PERFORMANCE, STABILITY (it was really ROCK STABLE, take my word),
bheetebrij
2009-09-29, 13:48
+1
The best explanation yet, imho...
So right! +1
timsamoff
2009-09-29, 13:55
Definitely a +1 from me too... This is a great preview (http://twitter.com/timsamoff/status/4468106943).
Tim
First of all, I'm so glad that you liked the preview.
I sure did. But I'm really looking forward to you telling us how the battery kept going. Or not.
I sure did. But I'm really looking forward to you telling us how the battery kept going. Or not.
You're going to need to wait for final for that since there's still so much work being done on exactly that right now.
You're going to need to wait for final for that since there's still so much work being done on exactly that right now.
Am I the only here feeling a little uneasy that battery life is only getting "so much work being done" on it at this late stage?
Michal! Great to see you here! It's been a while since Mobius Boston, and I see you're now using a 50D. :)
Anyway, excellent N900 preview (blogged about it (http://maemotalk.com/2009/09/29/intensive-nokia-n900-preview/))! Thanks for providing some screenshots of some that I have not seen before like the rich-text email editor, calendar views, phone portrait mode screens, PDF reader app, and Documents To Go (Word, Sheet, and Slideshow).
attila77
2009-09-29, 14:43
+1 for the article, with on minor correction: I believe its 1200 DMIPS. The 2000 DMIPS is a theoretical maximum for the 1GHz Cortex A8 (you get the 1200 following the 2DMIPS/Mhz pattern).
.
Am I the only here feeling a little uneasy that battery life is only getting "so much work being done" on it at this late stage?
You're putting words into my mouth. It isn't ONLY getting work on it at this late stage. It's been getting work on it this entire development period. It's a long-term on-going process, so no... it's not something that was just started last week or something.
ARJWright
2009-09-29, 14:46
Am I the only here feeling a little uneasy that battery life is only getting "so much work being done" on it at this late stage?
You are.
Battery life is always one of the last things to be tweaked as other features need to be nailed down and tested throughly before the battery life targets can be set and met.
Regarding the "few tech details I got wrong", I'll be grateful for pointing them out so that I can correct them.
Thanks again for your very informative and enjoyable preview!
here are the few things i noticed:
"(the first superscalar CPU in a Symbian phone)"
this is not a symbian phone :)
"memory available for installation of 3rd party software (i.e. actually the whole rootfs file system) seems to be limited to a relatively small capacity of about 256 MB "
i remember reading somewhere here in this forum that this actually won't be a problem, because the rootfs is supposed to be around 1 GB in the final version. i can't find the source for that any more, so i guess it still remains a rumour :)
what i did find was this thread (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31435). the mailing list linked in the last post is a good hint that many applications have already been modified to use /opt, so the small rootfs (if it stays small) shouldn't be that bad an issue as you make it out to be.
"enabling USB host mode"
information on that is somewhat limited, currently it's all speculation (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31921).
it might be only a software issue, maybe a small adapter is needed, but it could also be that it won't work at all. the only thing that is certain is that there's no official support.
Laughing Man
2009-09-29, 14:51
@My-Symbian.com
Haha we don't mind you talking about unoptimized things, because as you clearly pointed out. It's unoptimized yet! But true given that they have the ability to change drastically it may not make sense to bother with anyway.
And bah on the fragile state of the n900 screen. I guess you gotta sacrifice something to have the sensitivity?
Battery life is always one of the last things to be tweaked as other features need to be nailed down and tested throughly before the battery life targets can be set and met.
Yeah, you guys are probably right. The same sort of stuff was being said about the iPhone (http://www.cellphones.ca/news/post002249/) when it was launched. :)
bugelrex
2009-09-29, 15:04
For those people with the n900 unit and an NDA. Do we assume the NDA has now expired since the My-Symbian.com is out and Nokia gave him the unit to review?
For those people with the n900 unit and an NDA. Do we assume the NDA has now expired since the My-Symbian.com is out and Nokia gave him the unit to review?
No, you do not.
Laughing Man
2009-09-29, 15:39
Hmm, am I missing something or did nobody talk about the front facing camera yet? Or is that no longer in / results of bad speculative reporting?
Thanks for the links. The preview on http://my-symbian.com/other/preview_n900.php is very nice :)
From Kehaan.
I love the the first preview , it's very detailed . i have been holding this question all along , why all preview and hands on did not ever touch base on battery life issues .
At the end of preview , it says " What hasn't been tested " is power consumption / battery life . He did not even tell any feeling about power consumption and battery life . I recalled a video demo , a Nokia sales guy mentioned " our target is one day full usage " when people asked about battery life .
I have strong doubt on N900 has big issues on battery life for this super mobile computer with a tiny battery . I really do not expect a pain at back like Iphone on battery issues .
romanianusa
2009-09-29, 17:07
The 2nd reviewer didn't even mention about the camera or video recording. He compared the iPhone brower to N900 and say N900 is 1-3 seconds slower but never mentioned the fact that maybe it's faster on the iPhone because it doesn't render flash contents?? He sounds like a iPhone fan-boy from the get-go.
@ My-Symbian.com
Thank you for this nice preview. I was really looking forward to see a sample of the actual recorded video. The Youtube videos look very good and it seem this can actually replace a separate camcorder for all but most demanding users. For casual home/vacation movie purposes this seem perfectly adequate.
Would it be possible to upload uncompressed sample movies somewhere for more critical analysis? Especially I'd look for the color saturation and noise performance at little bit darker environments, such as the second movie clip.
Now THAT is how a (p)review is done! Hats off to Michal.
My-Symbian.com
2009-09-29, 19:33
He did not even tell any feeling about power consumption and battery life
Indeed, I didn't. But that's, as I wrote, because it's *REALLY* hard to judge such things based on an early proto. As others wrote, battery life is usually THE LAST thing to optimize, after eveything else had been done. I used many protos in the past, and some of them were emptying their batteries in just one hour, whereas final models were then providing 5 or 6 hours of active use, i.e. an improvement of 600% or so.
OK, it's not a secret and I can disclose that with the current early proto and old software I get something like 3 hrs of use (and about an hour or maybe 1,5 hr more with the GSM radio turned off) but it really does not mean ANYTHING and it may look completely different on final hardware and with optimized software... The most power hungry part seems to be the GSM radio as there's a huge difference of standby times (i.e. when the device is not in use) between when the phone is turned on or off. When it's on, the N900 cries for a charger after 7-8 hours while when it's off it lasts almost two days.... But it surely does not result from the GSM radio being that power hungry but from the software controlling it not being fully optimized yet.
Please, be patient, it's just several weeks left for the device to start shipping. Why now worry about hypothetical poor standby/work times if it's not going to be the case on final units...?
And even if the standby turns out to be lower than our expectations, I actually wouldn't worry THAT much about it. At least the N900 has a REMOVABLE battery (and quite a popular one used in lots of newer Nokia phones) so we can always have a spare one, unlike the iPhone. And at least they do not explode like iPhones and iPods, either ;-)
Would it be possible to upload uncompressed sample movies somewhere for more critical analysis?
I decided to include YouTube uploaded videos in the review because I compared them and it turned out that the resulting YouTube video actually differs only very subtly from the original. You really wouldn't see much difference. But if I find some web space, there's no problem with uploading the originals.
And like with the battery life, I'd expect the video recording to undergo some considerable changes before the device starts shipping. On the tested unit the only video mode was "Automatic" without any White balance settings, without possibility to turn the Flash on, etc., which I believe ISN'T how they intend to have it on final units. I decided to post the videos because I found them good enough for an early proto (not worse than quality offered by commercial builds of other phone models), especially when it comes to detailness and noise levels. But IMHO it's too early to judge things like colours based on them.
Hmm, am I missing something or did nobody talk about the front facing camera yet?
I didn't write about it simply because so far I haven't found a way to use it :-) But my unit is an EARLY one (and I had no time to send it for flashing a newer firmware) so maybe things changed since then.
Michal! Great to see you here! It's been a while since Mobius Boston, and I see you're now using a 50D.
Hi Reggie, yeah, it's been ages since we last met. Unfortunately, I had to reject last two or three invitations to Mobius due to family related problems, but hopefully John is patient enough to invite me once again next time ;-) It would be really great to meet you again!
Yes, now I am using the 50D and desperately trying to resist the temptation of the upcoming 7D :-)
"(the first superscalar CPU in a Symbian phone)"
this is not a symbian phone
Ugggh, right. It was meant to be "Nokia phone". Corrected, thanks!
Regarding the storage memory, I have just received a couple of comments on this from people 'in the know' explaining that it is being worked on and how the additional storage provided by /opt will be handled. So it's great that it's actually a HISTORY now. It was one of my biggest concerns. Not that it couldn't be solved anyway, but less advanced users might be in trouble... But it has been confirmed to me that is not an issue anymore so let's just forget about it. I will update my preview in a minute.
Best regards,
Michal Jerz
My-Symbian.com
grenadejumper
2009-09-29, 19:36
Awesome review from My-Symbian.com. Big up! I am eagerly awaiting the full review, as I am a bit worried about the battery-life.
I have a question somewhat related to a paragraph in the preview:
One important thing worth mentioning is that the Backup application, even though it has an option to backup "Application list", does NOT backup the actual installed software. It only stores information about installed applications (name, repository which it was installed from, version, etc) and then based on this information it tries to re-install it from the repositories.
I was wondering if someone knew if there were any ways (perhaps from third parties) to create images of your phone? Similar to Norton Ghost for computers? The thing is I am kind of a linux n00b, and have on occasion been known to break my linux-box, and forced to reinstall. Incremental backups would therefore be a good solution in case I suddenly do something stupid (which, let's face it, is inevitable:p).
romanianusa
2009-09-29, 19:53
Michal,
Will you do a comparison of the browsers' speed of iPhone 3GS and N900? For example, load up same websites at the same time and see which one load faster! Nokia hailed N900 browser as the fastest or best...so i was curious how or why the other reviewer' say otherwise.
Also you say regarding the video recording that there are certain pre-sets for white balance settings and do you mean that by selecting one of this preset that you can eliminate the sudden change of lighting or coloring as seen in the 1st video? Do you think the video quality is the same as N97?
texaslabrat
2009-09-29, 19:56
Awesome review from My-Symbian.com. Big up! I am eagerly awaiting the full review, as I am a bit worried about the battery-life.
I have a question somewhat related to a paragraph in the preview:
I was wondering if someone knew if there were any ways (perhaps from third parties) to create images of your phone? Similar to Norton Ghost for computers? The thing is I am kind of a linux n00b, and have on occasion been known to break my linux-box, and forced to reinstall. Incremental backups would therefore be a good solution in case I suddenly do something stupid (which, let's face it, is inevitable:p).
Being a full-on linux distro...there are a myriad of ways to back it up. I suppose you could probably even install Amanda and have it back up to S3 (if someone has ported it, that is) LOL...though there are less complicated ways such as rsync, tar, and dd that can be brought to bear.
ARJWright
2009-09-29, 20:22
Some of you are asking for benchmarks and things of that sort.. stop, the software ain't final, therefore the data won't be valid.
And if you still want that data, even after plainly listening to that fact, then you've got more issues at heart than just wanting a new device. :rolleyes:
solideogloria
2009-09-29, 20:26
There are screenshots in the review showing the pluginmanager of the browser that strongly reminds me of my desktop firefox. is it possible to install 'normal' firefox addons (or at least with some minor tweaks)?
I would love to see Adblock+ on the device!
My-Symbian.com
2009-09-29, 20:27
Will you do a comparison of the browsers' speed of iPhone 3GS and N900? For example, load up same websites at the same time and see which one load faster! Nokia hailed N900 browser as the fastest or best...so i was curious how or why the other reviewer' say otherwise.
Sure, if I can only borrow the iPhone from somewhere. But as some reviewers pointed out, the iPhone browser may APPEAR to be faster in some cases because of simply ignoring a lot of content that the N900 browser processes and renders, like e.g. Javascript, Flash etc. It simply has much less to do to show a webpage. Another difference is the resolution of the display, 2.5 times higher on the N900, hence fitting 2.5 times more content at once, i.e. once again more data to process/render.
And even if the resulting difference is like one second or maybe two, in exchange for over twice more content fitting on the screen and Flash/Javascript etc. fully working, who would worry about it? I don't :-)
I didn't do any comparative tests, but Nokia saying that the browser is the fastest actually may be true, if we measure it with relation to the amount of data/content it processes and not just how much seconds it takes to show a page. If a site with lots of Flash shows up in the N900 browser e.g. five seconds later than on the iPhone but WITH the Flash content as opposed to the iPhone showing it without Flash, then it's not OK to just say that the iPhone did it faster... And the same goes for the screen resolution. If the N900 shows a page several seconds later than the iPhone but you can see 250% more of it at once (i.e. full width and 30% more vertically) then just comparing the loading times isn't correct. It's all very RELATIVE.
Also you say regarding the video recording that there are certain pre-sets for white balance settings and do you mean that by selecting one of this preset that you can eliminate the sudden change of lighting or coloring as seen in the 1st video?
YES, setting the AWB to one of the pre-sets can eliminate the "flickering". With the AWB active and the lighting/colours changing like in the 1st clip, it is normal (even on camcorders) to have such a sudden changes as the AWB kicks in and tries to adjust itself to the changed conditions.
allnameswereout
2009-09-29, 20:43
Haven't read whole review yet. I liked the author told something about his background and related experience in the preface of the preview.
Laughing Man
2009-09-29, 21:10
Awesome review from My-Symbian.com. Big up! I am eagerly awaiting the full review, as I am a bit worried about the battery-life.
I have a question somewhat related to a paragraph in the preview:
I was wondering if someone knew if there were any ways (perhaps from third parties) to create images of your phone? Similar to Norton Ghost for computers? The thing is I am kind of a linux n00b, and have on occasion been known to break my linux-box, and forced to reinstall. Incremental backups would therefore be a good solution in case I suddenly do something stupid (which, let's face it, is inevitable:p).
If Maemo5 isn't to different than Maemo4 then we already have a working mechanism. Just plug your tablet/phone into a computer (instructions for both Linux and Windows have been provided here before). For Linux you'll be using partimage. For Windows, I think Acronis does the job (make sure it supports ext2) file systems. Though I don't know what FS the phone will be using.
Plug it in, for Linux you just type in the command "sudo partimage" and follow the instructions. The end result will be a compressed image of it on your computer!
I've been doing that for a while so if something on my n800 screws up, a simple restore to that last known good image (I do backups once every 3 months since I don't install software as often anymore due to the slowed pace of new software coming out for the n800) takes less then an hour.
allnameswereout
2009-09-29, 22:01
For Linux you'll be using partimage. For Windows, I think Acronis does the job (make sure it supports ext2) file systems. Though I don't know what FS the phone will be using.The 256 MB NAND where all applications reside uses UBIFS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UBIFS), succesor of JFFS2. The 32 GB eMMC uses VFAT. IIRC MicroSD cards are by default formatted as VFAT. Although one could format both with whatever the kernel supports. E.g. Ext2 or Ext3. One could make a backup with something like dd or rsync. Or an image, like you do. Something like Time Machine for Linux could also be nice, allowing one to make snapshots.
Time Drive (http://www.oak-tree.us/blog/index.php/science-and-technology/time-drive).. pff Time Walk. Drive Time. All too confusing. Time Drive is inspired by something called Fly Back, and cross platform if you consider Cygwin.
GeneralAntilles
2009-09-29, 22:06
The 32 GB eMMC uses VFAT.
Well, VFAT, Ext3 and swap.
Sure, if I can only borrow the iPhone from somewhere. But as some reviewers pointed out, the iPhone browser may APPEAR to be faster in some cases because of simply ignoring a lot of content that the N900 browser processes and renders, like e.g. Javascript, Flash etc. It simply has much less to do to show a webpage. Another difference is the resolution of the display, 2.5 times higher on the N900, hence fitting 2.5 times more content at once, i.e. once again more data to process/render.
And even if the resulting difference is like one second or maybe two, in exchange for over twice more content fitting on the screen and Flash/Javascript etc. fully working, who would worry about it? I don't :-)
I didn't do any comparative tests, but Nokia saying that the browser is the fastest actually may be true, if we measure it with relation to the amount of data/content it processes and not just how much seconds it takes to show a page. If a site with lots of Flash shows up in the N900 browser e.g. five seconds later than on the iPhone but WITH the Flash content as opposed to the iPhone showing it without Flash, then it's not OK to just say that the iPhone did it faster... And the same goes for the screen resolution. If the N900 shows a page several seconds later than the iPhone but you can see 250% more of it at once (i.e. full width and 30% more vertically) then just comparing the loading times isn't correct. It's all very RELATIVE.
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is an example of what good analysis is about. Once again, hats off and keep up the good work.
Hmm, am I missing something or did nobody talk about the front facing camera yet? Or is that no longer in / results of bad speculative reporting?
Yeah, I'm very curious about the front-facing (user-facing) camera too... in particular its focal length and low-light sensitivity. This is in relation to the feaibility of using it for image processing of an analog compass to substitute for the lack of an onboard digital compass, for AR apps. This would require a short focal length as well as the ability to run both cameras at once (normal camera to get the world image, user-facing camera to process compass image and get compass orientation).
The reason I'm seriously considering this is because the powered USB host is starting to look questionable, and making a powered external digital compass with separate battery could end up being too large to be useful.
TedMilker
2009-09-29, 23:03
The reason I'm seriously considering this is because the powered USB host is starting to look questionable, and making a powered external digital compass with separate battery could end up being too large to be useful.I do not get this idea at all. How are you going to use a compass, which has to be parallel to the camera AND parallel to the earth to work? Users would want to be able to hold the camera up and pan it, at which point the compass stops working due to gravity. If you get past this though, you could just use a lens over the compass to distort it into something legible to the assumed long focal length of the facing camera.
Personally, I do not need any ARG software to make comments about the ground or my shoes and pants. :D
attila77
2009-09-29, 23:16
How are you going to use a compass, which has to be parallel to the camera AND parallel to the earth to work? Users would want to be able to hold the camera up and pan it, at which point the compass stops working due to gravity.
Let's think a bit out of the box... First, the compass does not need to be parallel to the Earth. If it's a ball compass, it can rotate freely and you 'just' have to recognize the orientation of the ball. But, even if you decide to go with a classic pin compass, say, because of size considerations, it still doesn't mean you have to be parallel to the camera - just that you need a small mirror or prism on the camera. Massive effort for questionable results ? Absolutely, but not impossible :)
The N900 not only has additional 768 Megabytes of swap, but it is stored in a dedicated, fast NAND memory.
The best explanation yet, imho...
The swap is NOT on its own dedicated NAND. It is a partition on the internal 32GB. Sorry.
It is still unclear whether the N900 has an FM radio or not. Official specs do not mention it and there's currently no trace of it on the device, but remembering how it looked the same (and that even several months after the device started shipping) in case of the N800 Tablet until software enabling it was suddenly and unexpectedly released by Nokia, it doesn't have to mean anything. So we'll have to wait and see.
Yes, it's there. There will be community-developed support for it very soon.
Regarding the small storage capacity for software installation, I am well aware of the /opt (actually, home/opt) directory providing some 2 GB worth additional space. But the problem is that it is NOT being used by installable software packages. The only software that installed there was Dataviz' Documents-To-Go whereas (if I recall correctly) the "guideline" is that all apps larger than 500 kB (including all dependencies) should go there. Apparently, this is being ignored. Even the "official" Bounce Evolution (17.5 MB) installed under root ("/") and ate a lot of that precious space.
Seriously. As Quim and others have been telling us over and over, don't worry about it. It probably shouldn't be in your review, because your discussion of the topic makes readers worry about something that they shouldn't be worried about.
If you look at the wiki (http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging%2C_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs), mailing lists, talk threads (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31435) etc, you'll see that the /opt thing is very new, and it will take some time to get that all sorted out. I know that most community developers are planning to put their stuff there, and I'm sure all of the apps in the repositories will get the maemo-optify (http://maemo.org/packages/view/maemo-optify/) treatment, too.
lemmyslender
2009-09-30, 01:01
Seriously. As Quim and others have been telling us over and over, don't worry about it. It probably shouldn't be in your review, because your discussion of the topic makes readers worry about something that they shouldn't be worried about.
If you look at the wiki (http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging%2C_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs), mailing lists, talk threads (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31435) etc, you'll see that the /opt thing is very new, and it will take some time to get that all sorted out. I know that most community developers are planning to put their stuff there, and I'm sure all of the apps in the repositories will get the maemo-optify (http://maemo.org/packages/view/maemo-optify/) treatment, too.
But it is a limitation, and however adroitly it is dealt with, it is still there. It shouldn't be brushed under the rug just because "we shouldn't worry about it". As you said "most" developers are planning and dealing with, not all. Someone will create/port an app that isn't properly optified, and someone will find the right combination of apps that eat up.that 65MB and causes all sorts of bad things to happen. At least if people are aware of it they can keep an eye on their free space after installing apps and possibly avoid unexpected problems and/or notify the developer of a potential issue.
franklinn
2009-09-30, 02:44
The MySymbian review is far too lenient ! Nokia may well have written it. I will take this review with a pinch of salt however thorough it seems. It appears Nokia has dropped the ball here - lousy keyboard with no Dpad, fragile screen which appears a fingerprint magnet, lack of basic features eg MMS, limited potrait mode etc.
I think I'll stick to my brilliant N810 and trusted Symbian phone for now.
do you have a device to even make these judgements on ?
Well, VFAT, Ext3 and swap.
How did they tweak the 5 seconds interval write for the journaling part of ext3 ? :)
GeneralAntilles
2009-09-30, 03:22
As you said "most" developers are planning and dealing with, not all.
As I mentioned over in the My-Symbian forums, this is going to be dealt with at the infrastructure level with the Extras QA process. Really, seriously, it's not something users need to worry about. :)
GeneralAntilles
2009-09-30, 03:23
How did they tweak the 5 seconds interval write for the journaling part of ext3 ? :)
Can you provide some background on this issue?
The screen part was a little discouraging, but I had planned on buying a screen guard as soon as possible. I'd opt for Zagg, but they haven't made it yet. Until I get something, I'm going to have to take SUPER CARE of my N900 :D.
I highly recommend boxwave's anti-glare screen protector. I've had the same one on my n800 for around 2 years now and never had to replace it; the screen is much more visible, and to me it also enhances the texture of the screen.
Alex Atkin UK
2009-09-30, 03:36
The MySymbian review is far too lenient ! Nokia may well have written it. I will take this review with a pinch of salt however thorough it seems. It appears Nokia has dropped the ball here - lousy keyboard with no Dpad, fragile screen which appears a fingerprint magnet, lack of basic features eg MMS, limited potrait mode etc.
I think I'll stick to my brilliant N810 and trusted Symbian phone for now.
Keyboard looks alright, not perfect and a PITA the missing | but still... I personally do not think any D-Pad is worthwhile unless its a joypad style one anyway. The ones with a button in the middle are just not usable for gaming IMO.
The "fragile screen that is a fingerprint magnet" comment is totally out of line too. Unless you actually own a device and have broken the screen, how can you make such a bold claim?
When I saw photos of the iPod touch I thought it was a fingerprint magnet. When I tried it out in the store I thought it was a fragile screen. But in actual use you can't see the fingerprints except when holding against the light or flash photography, which 99% of the photos of the N900 are. I have also had a few "oh crap" moment where I dropped something accidentally on the screen or knocked it against something in my pocket, but it doesn't even have a mark on it. So you really cannot tell except in real-world use how good a screen is with regards to these things.
Can you provide some background on this issue?
Sure, how ext3 work for it's journaling is by writing a log of its filesystem transaction to disk every 5 seconds so to be able to recover if the power is cut, there is a crash or whatever...
ext2 doesn't have such feature but then need a full fsck scan in case of a crash which might be painful for a portable device... On the other hand writing every 5 seconds on flash media isn't the best of ideas considering that's over 6M writes a year if the cell is always on (and it will).
NicolasF
2009-09-30, 04:08
Sure, how ext3 work for it's journaling is by writing a log of its filesystem transaction to disk every 5 seconds so to be able to recover if the power is cut, there is a crash or whatever...
ext2 doesn't have such feature but then need a full fsck scan in case of a crash which might be painful for a portable device... On the other hand writing every 5 seconds on flash media isn't the best of ideas considering that's over 6M writes a year if the cell is always on (and it will).
Curious about this too...
GeneralAntilles
2009-09-30, 04:16
ext2 doesn't have such feature but then need a full fsck scan in case of a crash which might be painful for a portable device... On the other hand writing every 5 seconds on flash media isn't the best of ideas considering that's over 6M writes a year if the cell is always on (and it will).
Ah, I see your point. Will the journaling cause noticeable flash wear? Well, anecdotal evidence from N8x0 owners booting from their flash cards leads me to believe that no, it wont.
For the most part, modern flash memory seems perfectly capable of standing up to the rigors of usage for more than its usable life span.
My-Symbian.com
2009-09-30, 04:18
The MySymbian review is far too lenient ! Nokia may well have written it. I will take this review with a pinch of salt however thorough it seems. It appears Nokia has dropped the ball here - lousy keyboard with no Dpad, fragile screen which appears a fingerprint magnet, lack of basic features eg MMS, limited potrait mode etc.
I knew someone would say that :-) Running my site for 10 years now, each time I wrote a generally positive review of something, I was always accused by someone of being sponsored or bribed by Nokia, or a hidden employee of Sony Ericsson, or - in the best case - a person that praises Symbian phones in order to attract more people to getting one and then buying software via my site :-) And vice versa: when I criticized something, I was accused of being bribed by the competitors :-) So I got used to it :-)
I've just counted the PROs and CONs listed in the summary of the preview and it's a 16:14 ratio, so I think the preview is acceptably well balanced. But if you think that Nokia would list almost as many drawbacks as advantages if they wrote the preview themselves, then be my guest :-)
While I wrote that the screen seems to be more fragile than touchscreens of other devices I've used, I definitely do not think that it is a "fingerprint magnet". At least not more than any other touchscreen device.
The keyboard definitely isn't lousy. It's smaller but actually better when it comes to tactile feedback and operation than most of other devices I compared it to.
And "lack of basic features like MMS", well... it's actually JUST the MMS (and maybe also Voice dialling), other than that I can't think of any "basic feature" or even an advanced one that's missing. On the contrary, the device offers A LOT of features most of other phones do not have. How fantastically well VoIP/Skype is integrated or how the multitasking works on this machine are the best examples.
Finally, the portrait mode isn't "limited". It is actually FULLY supported, just not used by built-in applications, simply because virtually all of them are much more usable in landscape, maybe except for the PDF reader that would be quite useful in portrait for reading ebooks. But the portrait mode can be used without any problems by any third party application if only a developer finds it useful and suitable for what his app is going to do, so you should not worry about scarcity of 3rd party software taking advantage of it...
Just to make some things clear...
franklinn
2009-09-30, 06:49
I knew someone would say that :-) Running my site for 10 years now, each time I wrote a generally positive review of something, I was always accused by someone of being sponsored or bribed by Nokia, or a hidden employee of Sony Ericsson, or - in the best case - a person that praises Symbian phones in order to attract more people to getting one and then buying software via my site :-) And vice versa: when I criticized something, I was accused of being bribed by the competitors :-) So I got used to it :-)
I've just counted the PROs and CONs listed in the summary of the preview and it's a 16:14 ratio, so I think the preview is acceptably well balanced. But if you think that Nokia would list almost as many drawbacks as advantages if they wrote the preview themselves, then be my guest :-)
While I wrote that the screen seems to be more fragile than touchscreens of other devices I've used, I definitely do not think that it is a "fingerprint magnet". At least not more than any other touchscreen device.
The keyboard definitely isn't lousy. It's smaller but actually better when it comes to tactile feedback and operation than most of other devices I compared it to.
And "lack of basic features like MMS", well... it's actually JUST the MMS (and maybe also Voice dialling), other than that I can't think of any "basic feature" or even an advanced one that's missing. On the contrary, the device offers A LOT of features most of other phones do not have. How fantastically well VoIP/Skype is integrated or how the multitasking works on this machine are the best examples.
Finally, the portrait mode isn't "limited". It is actually FULLY supported, just not used by built-in applications, simply because virtually all of them are much more usable in landscape, maybe except for the PDF reader that would be quite useful in portrait for reading ebooks. But the portrait mode can be used without any problems by any third party application if only a developer finds it useful and suitable for what his app is going to do, so you should not worry about scarcity of 3rd party software taking advantage of it...
Just to make some things clear...
ok maybe I went over the top there. I will try the N900 for myself before passing further judgement.I just think the N810 is near perfect so Nokia should have just speeded it up and added a GSM chip.
Very good review though. Thanks and keep up the good work.
Hi
I have two questions for those who use the device:
- Is there "smart dial" when dialing a number in portrait mode? You use the "T9" keypad to tap the first letters of the name (the 3 letters under each number, but you tap only once), and the phone proposes you the corresponding contacts. I found this really useful on my HTC, because you don't need to open "contacts" anymore. it misses a lot on the iphone too.
It seems to be present in landscape mode, but in portrait?
- About the week view of the calendar, can you adjust the "scale" of the hours, so that for example you can see from 8am to 6pm without scrolling?
Thanks for your answers!
one correction: N900 and iphone 3gs don't have same gpu.
N900 has SGX530
Iphone 3gs has SGX535
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerVR
REMFwhoopitydo
2009-09-30, 10:34
cheers, didn't know that.
a shame, the more commonality between the platforms the better, as far as hoping for lots of cross platform game ports.
other than having twice the fill-rate, any other notable differences between the two GPU's?
For those people with the n900 unit and an NDA. Do we assume the NDA has now expired since the My-Symbian.com is out and Nokia gave him the unit to review?
Nope, is not.
My-Symbian.com
2009-09-30, 11:13
The swap is NOT on its own dedicated NAND. It is a partition on the internal 32GB. Sorry.
Sorry, I got misleaded by Forum Nokia device specs mentioning 768 MB of NAND.
http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/N900
Yes, it's there. There will be community-developed support for it very soon.
That's fantastic!
Seriously. As Quim and others have been telling us over and over, don't worry about it. It probably shouldn't be in your review, because your discussion of the topic makes readers worry about something that they shouldn't be worried about.
If you look at the wiki, mailing lists, talk threads etc, you'll see that the /opt thing is very new, and it will take some time to get that all sorted out. I know that most community developers are planning to put their stuff there, and I'm sure all of the apps in the repositories will get the maemo-optify treatment, too.
GeneralAttiles explained it to me yesterday. It is a truly great news.
Thank you guys for all the comments and corrections. I will update the preview today with all the new information I got.
As I wrote, the preview was supposed to be just an introduction, and it will be replaced with a final, full review shortly, so I'm really thankful for all the information which will help make it really extensive and 100% correct!
But it is a limitation, and however adroitly it is dealt with, it is still there. It shouldn't be brushed under the rug just because "we shouldn't worry about it". As you said "most" developers are planning and dealing with, not all. Someone will create/port an app that isn't properly optified, and someone will find the right combination of apps that eat up.that 65MB and causes all sorts of bad things to happen. At least if people are aware of it they can keep an eye on their free space after installing apps and possibly avoid unexpected problems and/or notify the developer of a potential issue.
That's what I am seriously worried about, too, and I'm discussing it with GeneralAttiles on the My-Symbian Forums (http://my-symbian.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=368318#368318). Life is more complicated than we usually think and there always will be some developers stubbornly making their software to install to "/", there will always be other repositories than Maemo Extras not really taking care about only hosting "proper" packages, and there will always be users who will do completely unpredictable things. For instance, if the "guideline" is that apps bigger than 500 kB should install in /opt, I can imagine someone filling up his rootfs with lots of packages of 300-450 kB each (which will require installing several hundred of them, but who can be sure that the N900 won't be that popular in a year or so to have that many small applications? and I know people who have that much software installed on Symbian phones). That's why I suggested to GeneralAttiles that besides what's being done on the Extras repository level, there should be some additional "protection" on the device/system level.
- Is there "smart dial" when dialing a number in portrait mode? You use the "T9" keypad to tap the first letters of the name (the 3 letters under each number, but you tap only once), and the phone proposes you the corresponding contacts. I found this really useful on my HTC, because you don't need to open "contacts" anymore. it misses a lot on the iphone too. It seems to be present in landscape mode, but in portrait?
On my SW version, it seemed that "smart dial" worked with the hardware keyboard only, i.e. in the landscape orientation only. Actually, when I used the hardware keyboard to start typing (which opened the Phone app with the "smart dial" input bar) and then closed the keyboard, which caused the Phone app to switch to portrait, I could continue typing using the virtual keyboard, but it wasn't possible to open the virtual keyboard directly in portrait mode, as there is no text field to tap on, and the virtual keyboard opens only when you tap on an input field...
- About the week view of the calendar, can you adjust the "scale" of the hours, so that for example you can see from 8am to 6pm without scrolling?
No.
one correction: N900 and iphone 3gs don't have same gpu.
N900 has SGX530
Iphone 3gs has SGX535
Thanks! I learn something new everyday!
Well, VFAT, Ext3 and swap.
Just checked. You're right. I though it was on his own chip as the Specs were stating "768Mb NAND chip"
javispedro
2009-09-30, 11:35
Sure, how ext3 work for it's journaling is by writing a log of its filesystem transaction to disk every 5 seconds so to be able to recover if the power is cut, there is a crash or whatever...
You make it sound like if it was introducing a write every 5 seconds, no matter what (and then conclude it'll wear flash).
It is not. If there are no writes there's no log to write. In fact, it'll try to combine writes done between the 5 second period, which may actually help reduce wear.
My worry is the unneeded performance hit.
javispedro
2009-09-30, 11:49
]Iphone 3gs has SGX535
Can you confirm this? That page is non encyclopedic at all (for a start, it does not have sources), and there have been thousands of reports about it using different models.
attila77
2009-09-30, 12:01
Apparently the SDK and dumps refer to a certain IMGSGX535GLDriver (I can only offer googling as references, though :) ).
REMFwhoopitydo
2009-09-30, 12:20
it sounds reasonable provided the 3Gs uses a samsung cpu/gpu package rather than the TI Omap cpu/gpu package as used by the n900.
maxximuscool
2009-09-30, 12:22
Please confirm the release date and will this device coming to ASIA before X-mas?
thecursedfly
2009-09-30, 12:58
Awesome review from My-Symbian.com. Big up! I am eagerly awaiting the full review, as I am a bit worried about the battery-life.
I have a question somewhat related to a paragraph in the preview:
I was wondering if someone knew if there were any ways (perhaps from third parties) to create images of your phone? Similar to Norton Ghost for computers? The thing is I am kind of a linux n00b, and have on occasion been known to break my linux-box, and forced to reinstall. Incremental backups would therefore be a good solution in case I suddenly do something stupid (which, let's face it, is inevitable:p).
in the case you use Windows, do you know if Norton Ghost itself makes backups of flash drives? because in this case, you could attach the N900 to the PC and make the image/restore... :D
making a little research I found this (look at half page):
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/on-technology.nsf/docid/2000101617144125
dunno anything native for Maemo or other OSes.. hope it's of some use anyway. :)
Jack6428
2009-09-30, 13:10
the first one is really well done, i can tell you that...detailed and clear..and with many photos..good work my-symbian!
lemmyslender
2009-09-30, 13:18
As I mentioned over in the My-Symbian forums, this is going to be dealt with at the infrastructure level with the Extras QA process. Really, seriously, it's not something users need to worry about. :)
Really seriously, that's when I start worrying. Usually, when I hear phrases like that, it's from a salesman, and I walk away. In my experience, "don't worry" means start looking around, it won't work like you're being led to believe.
As my-symbian pointed out there are many ways this might become a problem for a typical user.
Tell me that any app that gets through Extras QA has a hard limit on the total size of files it can install or (at some later point) write in /. Tell me that a user will have to jump through multiple warnings and hoops to install a 3rd party repository. Even given all that, some users will blindly click and install anything from anywhere.
I'm sure that a new user will be quite happy to hear that their new device crashed because / is full, even though they checked and saw 500+MB free where the programs as supposed to go. When they post a thread complaining the response will be that "you only had 65MB free on / to start with, you didn't know to check that because we don't mention it, because you don't need to worry about it".
I'm just saying that it's there so we shouldn't ignore it, otherwise there'll be a new thread every week where someone did something stupid and filled up / because they weren't worried about checking it.
McChicken
2009-09-30, 13:19
QUOTEfranklinn;336455
The MySymbian review is far too lenient ! Nokia may well have written it.
be careful with accusations like that, My Symbian is a hero in my book (imagine how much time spent putting that together )until proven otherwise
QUOTEfranklinn;336455
I think I'll stick to my brilliant N810 and trusted Symbian phone for now.[
No one forces you to do anything
Jack6428
2009-09-30, 13:22
im really hoping for ATLEAST 1GB of application space (games count too right? (..because if Homeworld gets ported, it will chew up 500Mb...and i need my Homeworld on the go, 65Mb space would kill me)
P.S. I've heard about enabling the USB host not being possible on the N900 due to some hardware restrictions, but I kept it in the preview until I verify it myself :-)
Thanks for the great preview, Michael. If I might make two suggestions if you are going to update it: I think you should remove the USB host mode stuff in your preview until it is proved it is possible, rather than keep it in in your preview until it is proved it is not possible. You run the risk of misleading or disappointing potential buyers, otherwise.
Also, on the repository bit, you mention that the user can add loads of repositories. Although this is technically true, I imagine for most of your readers, this will be their first Maemo device (and possibly first Linux computer), and the general advice for new users is to stick to the Maemo Extras repository, at least at the beginning. I appreciate that it is good to emphasise that this device isn't limited to a single App Store, so maybe say something like "By default the device comes with a 'Maemo Extras' repository enabled, which is where most of the extra software will be found. You are not limited to this repository, though, and can add other repositories to the system. However, it is safest to stick with the Maemo Extras repository, at least until you are experienced on the device".
The MySymbian review is far too lenient ! Nokia may well have written it. I will take this review with a pinch of salt however thorough it seems. It appears Nokia has dropped the ball here - lousy keyboard with no Dpad, fragile screen which appears a fingerprint magnet, lack of basic features eg MMS, limited potrait mode etc.
I think I'll stick to my brilliant N810 and trusted Symbian phone for now.
Well good luck with that. Noone is forcing you to switch to the n900. Personally I found the review well written and balanced. I dont think Michal went out of his way to be a fanboy. He posted pictures and videos untouched and gave us a great way of knowing the quality of a major component of the phone.
He has since come back and given us his experiences with the battery etc and his roundup of the software was in depth and straight shooting.
I really dont see how you could fault the (p)review.
But as I said, noone is forcing you to get an n900, if you are happy with your 810 then more power to you.
attila77
2009-09-30, 13:35
I'm just saying that it's there so we shouldn't ignore it, otherwise there'll be a new thread every week where someone did something stupid and filled up / because they weren't worried about checking it.
Drink !
Anyway, from my talks with Nokia folks I'm still under the impression this thing is still pretty fluid, the "don't worry" means something along the lines of yes-it's-an-issue-but-we-are-aware-of-it-and-intend-to-deal-with-it.
Also, not mentioned, but if still remains an issue or fixed in Harmattan, with the given partition layout cloning/multiboot should be a million times easier than on N8x0.
ColdFusion
2009-09-30, 14:20
On my SW version, it seemed that "smart dial" worked with the hardware keyboard only, i.e. in the landscape orientation only. Actually, when I used the hardware keyboard to start typing (which opened the Phone app with the "smart dial" input bar) and then closed the keyboard, which caused the Phone app to switch to portrait, I could continue typing using the virtual keyboard, but it wasn't possible to open the virtual keyboard directly in portrait mode, as there is no text field to tap on, and the virtual keyboard opens only when you tap on an input field...
Do you mind filing a bug report. I think it'll be very useful to be able to use the t9 keyboard without opening and closing the landscape keyboard.
GeneralAntilles
2009-09-30, 15:40
Really seriously, that's when I start worrying. Usually, when I hear phrases like that, it's from a salesman, and I walk away. In my experience, "don't worry" means start looking around, it won't work like you're being led to believe.
Your cynicism is certainly productive.
As my-symbian pointed out there are many ways this might become a problem for a typical user.
. . . and as I've tried to point out, we've been working to ensure that it wont be.
Tell me that any app that gets through Extras QA has a hard limit on the total size of files it can install or (at some later point) write in /. Tell me that a user will have to jump through multiple warnings and hoops to install a 3rd party repository. Even given all that, some users will blindly click and install anything from anywhere.
These users are an extreme minority, you make it sound as if every 3rd user is going to install 500 200KB packages or 100MB of 3rd-party packages from a non-Extras source. This is essentially absurd. Even with the more pressing limits of the N800 and N810, only a very small minority of users ever really hit the wall with space limitations.
We're working to prevent this from multiple angles. I'm not trying to sweep it under the rug, but given the work that's been going on to deal with the limits, it's certainly not a severe enough issue to make it appropriate material for a product preview where the majority of readers will not be equipped to understand the warning and head it appropriately. The likely reaction is going to be "Man, I don't want to buy this if it's only got 65MB of space for stuff." rather than, "Ah, there should be plenty of application space available, I just need to be careful about where I get my applications from." and that doesn't help anybody.
I'm just saying that it's there so we shouldn't ignore it, otherwise there'll be a new thread every week where someone did something stupid and filled up / because they weren't worried about checking it.
Unless we insert a long explanation about /opt, NAND memory and eMMCs into every preview and review that gets released? :) I think not.
Anyway, the perfect place for game data such as 500 MB Homeworld would still be the 20-something GB VFAT data partition. So, don't worry! :)
Anyway, the perfect place for game data such as 500 MB Homeworld would still be the 20-something GB VFAT data partition. So, don't worry! :)
mmmmm homeworld
I don't want be an alarmist but I have my doubts about this opt thing yet.
I am concerned because:
*Some* of the Qt4 libraries are going to be installed to /usr/lib [1]
People will develop in Qt more and more, so there will be popular Qt applications, and the users will want to install them. If they depend on (for example) libqt4-svg libqt4-opengl libqt4-webkit libqt4-gui and libqt4-network, almost 40MB of / will go out.
It isn't decided yet if Python packages will use /opt (hopefully) [2]
The most useful python libraries will use ~30MB
But plans could change, so take it with a grain of salt.
[1] https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/qt4-devel/2009-September/000872.html
[2] https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/pymaemo-developers/2009-September/000940.html
How about overlaying /usr with unionfs on the 2GB partition, then?
However, good software packages ought to be relocatable. Hardcoding file paths is so last century. :)
Capt'n Corrupt
2009-09-30, 17:58
Why not mount /usr from a partition etched from the 32G?
/sbin, and /bin inits should be fine until the mounting can happen in the startup rigmarole. This leaves / for pure system stuff.
I'm sure there are a number of ways to deal with this.
}:^)`
Why not mount /usr from a partition etched from the 32G?
/sbin, and /bin inits should be fine until the mounting can happen in the startup rigmarole. This leaves / for pure system stuff.
I'm sure there are a number of ways to deal with this.
}:^)`
Performance hit?
But yes, I'm sure this won't be a problem in the end... :)
GeneralAntilles
2009-09-30, 18:08
How about overlaying /usr with unionfs on the 2GB partition, then?
However, good software packages ought to be relocatable. Hardcoding file paths is so last century. :)
Yeah, an aufs solution is definitely something we could work on from the community side. It's not really ready for a prime-time release on production Nokia software however. ;)
Yeah, an aufs solution is definitely something we could work on from the community side. It's not really ready for a prime-time release on production Nokia software however. ;)
Mainly because it requires extra effort at this late stage (e.g. unmount the union when applying an SSU) which isn't likely. /opt is a quick, dirty and hacky solution (which allows the problem to be pushed outside the release window) to the overlooked complete and utter fsck-up which is that no-one at Nokia thought about this more than 2 or 3 months before release.
Thanks for providing some screenshots of some that I have not seen before like the rich-text email editor, calendar views, phone portrait mode screens, PDF reader app, and Documents To Go (Word, Sheet, and Slideshow).
+1.
For my own part the limitations of the Note function of my current SE phone has been one of my prime motivators for starting to look for another mobile phone and then becoming aware of the wonderful open maemo/N900 and its predecessors. So although it may be obvious to any current Symbian user, I would suggest that the excellent preview should confirm that notes is not limited in length and can be saved into a hierarchical structure.
Thanks a lot for all the effort involved in publishing this very informative and seemingly balanced preview! :)
What worries me as well is the fact that he says the screen is very sensitive to scratches...
Jerz:
"The only thing that worries me when it comes to N900 display is its resistence to scratches and other damages. And it seems to be quite poor. I got the device without any protective case and the display got some awful scratches in just one day, and that's only because some sand grains got into the pocket I kept it in. So a good screen protector or soft carrying case seem to be a must. OK, now..."
What brand screen protectors work well while not affecting screen clarity and sensitivity? I am complete newby in this...
I used invisible shield on Nokia E90, full body, www.zagg.com, works as advertised. I will definetly get one for the N900
Can you confirm this? That page is non encyclopedic at all (for a start, it does not have sources), and there have been thousands of reports about it using different models.
Nope. I have found this info on few sites and thought that might be it. We can't know for sure until someone from apple confirms it. Which I doubt will evar happen.
Here is one example:
http://www.product-reviews.net/2009/06/26/iphone-3gs-gpu-specs-powervr-sgx-535/
My-Symbian.com
2009-10-02, 09:58
Hi guys,
I've just added another video to the preview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fymYOITcTiY
and also uploaded the original file to easy-share:
http://www.easy-share.com/1907987836/Nokia_N900_video_sample_(My-Symbian.com).mp4
Best regards,
Michal Jerz
My-Symbian.com
Hi guys,
I've just added another video to the preview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fymYOITcTiY
and also uploaded the original file to easy-share:
http://www.easy-share.com/1907987836/Nokia_N900_video_sample_(My-Symbian.com).mp4
Best regards,
Michal Jerz
My-Symbian.com
The original file mp4 is considerably better quality than the youtube version - even when watching HD.
Must say I am fairly impressed. Would love to see the first two videos in original format.
Alex Atkin UK
2009-10-02, 21:33
Can you adjust the video bitrate or is that locked down?
Presumably worst case it would require a third-party capture application, right? Although I would prefer if you could adjust it in the official one.
It gives me so many ideas though. Mounting NFS and capturing directly to my server. I already suspect I will have a go at using it as a webcam over 3G, hehehe.
All stuff I should have been able to do on the Xperia but Windows Mobile software sucks and is nearly all commercial. I wouldn't pay $15 to be able to do these things, but I would happily tinker with open-source software to do it.
one correction: N900 and iphone 3gs don't have same gpu.
N900 has SGX530
Iphone 3gs has SGX535
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerVR
Theoretical performance != Actual performance
I'll just copy and paste (pun intended) something I wrote in another thread:
Although the 3GS has a superior graphics card in comparison with the N900, it's underclocked to one forth (!) of it's intented speed, due battery and overheating problems of the Iphone 3GS. This means the N900's PowerVR SGX530 is actually twice as snappy (no pun intended to Snapdragon) as the 3GS' superior SGX535 chip.
As for raw numbers, the N900's graphics card works up to 14MPolys/s, while the 3GS is theoretically supposed to be able to reach 28MPolys/s, but as described above, is underclocked to only 7MPolys/s, which makes it somewhat inferior.
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