1930 mah battery... [Archive] - maemo.org

zkyevolved

2009-10-01, 14:03

Yeah, I know. It's what makes me wonder.

You've never heard of Original? They're the best battery makers out there! LOL.

I know it sounds really wako, but I was looking online to find some more BL-5Js (local) and that one came up as the second one! I am seriously considering buying an extended battery for the N900 when they become available (with the appropriate back). But hey! If I can get an OEM sized extended battery (if they ever really come out) then I'm all for it!

I wonder if there is an app to check the MAH of a battery for Maemo... I wouldn't mind testing it out. It's not that expensive. But I'd need an app to test out the MAH used.

Matan

2009-10-01, 14:09

NiMH AA batteries are available with capacities from 1500 mAh to 3200 mAh, so I expect that Li-Ion batteries may have some variance in capacity per cubed millimetre as well.

TA-t3

2009-10-01, 14:25

You can sometimes find the exact same battery sold from different places with very different specifications. There is some variation, but sometimes the shop just chooses to stretch the truth far too much.

The 1150mAh battery I currently have in my Palm PDA can sometimes be found advertised as 1500mAh, which is way above what's possible. People have measured this particular battery to vary between just above 1000 mAh to around 1200mAh.

AnimalMind

2009-10-01, 14:41

So this leads back to my question:

Is there a reason to or not to use a battery with a higher mAh than the retail battery?

TA-t3

2009-10-01, 14:43

When li-ion/li-poly batteries go bad they go extremely (violently) bad. So, I tend to trust vendor-original batteries more than unknown ones. Some 3party batteries don't have the very important built-in protection circuit, for example. So, without knowing for certain, I won't trust them. But that's just me

ysss

2009-10-01, 14:48

So this leads back to my question:

Is there a reason to or not to use a battery with a higher mAh than the retail battery?

No, if you can verify that they truly have a higher rating and comes from reputable producer.

ralphb

2009-10-01, 14:56

No, if you can verify that they truly have a higher rating and comes from reputable producer.

And you can be sure that Nokia won't start doing the same evil tricks that Panasonic are pulling (http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/25/panasonic-starts-locking-out-third-party-batteries-with-new-firm/) ... ?

Quindor

2009-10-01, 15:03

In theory it should work just fine. Just two problems with it.

A: Will it be rated capacity, or not? Nobody knows, hard to test subjectivly

B: It's not a nokia battery, there have been cases in the past where there was a lot of fuss about using a 3rd party battery in a nokia device, losing warrenty, broken devices and especially getting very hot or even burning.

My personal opinion is to just try it. See if it gives you better battery life then before doing your tasks and it if lasts longer, great! Share the experience! :)

I have a Canon Powershot S60 with a factory battery and a cheap alternative battery which is suposed to have about 350 mAh more. I think they lasted the same in the beginning and over the years the cheaper one has lasted less and less long while the factory one remained strong. But hey, it only costed 1/3rd too.

ysss

2009-10-01, 15:20

And you can be sure that Nokia won't start doing the same evil tricks that Panasonic are pulling (http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/25/panasonic-starts-locking-out-third-party-batteries-with-new-firm/) ... ?

No.

But unless they have some kind of smart (non copy-able) chip on the battery, they'll have to do their battery verification by measuring the electrical properties from the opensource device :D

Well ok, let's hope there's no locked down proprietary binary blobs around it.

toratoko

2009-10-01, 15:20

I wholeheartedly agree with you sir. I had one of those extended batteries and after a few months I started to notice the back of my phone swell and there it was, a slowly expanding battery doomed to explode in my pocket.

When li-ion/li-poly batteries go bad they go extremely (violently) bad. So, I tend to trust vendor-original batteries more than unknown ones. Some 3party batteries don't have the very important built-in protection circuit, for example. So, without knowing for certain, I won't trust them. But that's just me

zkyevolved

2009-10-01, 15:54

I wholeheartedly agree with you sir. I had one of those extended batteries and after a few months I started to notice the back of my phone swell and there it was, a slowly expanding battery doomed to explode in my pocket.

Well, that's just scary. Lol. I've seen that happen on my OEM blackberry battery. But I've had the berry for 3 years :P I'm surprised the battery has lasted me as long as it lasted! Lol. Oh well.

Well, regarding the larger capacity, I've seen applications (for Windows Mobile) that actually tell you the mAh expended in real time. So I kept that app open, and watched movies until the battery died. That was my test. usually +- 20 mAh is acceptable to me. But since this is Maemo, and I've never seen this OS at all or have looked for apps available as they're in repositories, I can't really check. But it's strange to find an app to monitory mAh consumption.

Regardless, it's all about trial and error. Since that battery is listed to be compatible with a 5800, would anyone dare to try it out? I would, but I don't have a 5800 :( Otherwise I would do it.

I'm soo pumped about the N900, I'm already buying backup batteries :P. This is going to be a great phone, as long as the keyboard is decent. And I'm going to need to get some decent battery life as well, even if I have to put it in GPRS/EDGE mode. On my Blackberry Bold I can't get a full day out of 3G. I doubt the N900 will be able to on a larger screen & with 3G on. So that's why I'm planing on getting the spare batteries. I'm thinking about buying this 1930 mAh battery. It's a really low investment :P until seidio comes out with one (doubt it, but they make EXCELLENT extended batteries).

TooMuchMoney

2009-10-01, 16:14

I have used plenty of aftermarket batteries. Do yourself a favour and don't bother with them especially the ones on eBay.

They lie about their actual capacity.

They are unreliable over time. They tend to lose capacity a lot quicker.

They tend to cut corners and are not safe... I've experienced one which exploded and another which bulged.

The big corps tries to source the best battery cells. They want to make their devices as small as possible and do not cut corners with safety. Some aftermarket entity doesn't have the same resources nor are they going to be better...

The only aftermarket batteries that has lasted longer are those with bigger dimensions and comes with its own custom battery/back cover. Mugem seems to make quality batteries. Just search for feedbacks/reviews

zkyevolved

2009-10-01, 16:24

The only aftermarket batteries that has lasted longer are those with bigger dimensions and comes with its own custom battery/back cover. Mugem seems to make quality batteries. Just search for feedbacks/reviews

I've seen them, but they're HUGE and they usually take a long time to develop batteries for them. But I imagine if they have one for the 5800, then it'll work for the N900, and all you'd need is a DIYS Nokia Battery Door Kit! Home Depot anyone? Lol. Someone get out the easy bake oven and some clay! We're making an extended battery cover :D

shadowjk

2009-10-01, 18:32

NiMH AA batteries are available with capacities from 1500 mAh to 3200 mAh, so I expect that Li-Ion batteries may have some variance in capacity per cubed millimetre as well.

In practice there's only about 3 makes of 2700mAh batteries that actually get close to 2700. Sanyo and Titanium brands for example. Everything above, and indeed most 2700mAh AA batteries are inflation by marketing ;) Since most consumers are unable to test, and since most consumers probably torture their old batteries to near-death before buying new ones anyway, they always notice an improvement...

Even the mugen batteries, which seem to be highly regarded here, have inflated claims and don't come close to their stated capacity. The big ones with new cover have better capacity than Nokia original though :)

That ebay battery claiming to be made in Japan... Is that chinese text on it in Japanese font or what?:D

Lord Raiden

2009-10-01, 19:24

And you can be sure that Nokia won't start doing the same evil tricks that Panasonic are pulling (http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/25/panasonic-starts-locking-out-third-party-batteries-with-new-firm/) ... ?
Well, given how much money that OEM's make off of aftermarket stuff, and given that all the printer companies have done this to lock out competitors to this rather lucrative cash cow market, forcing the previous 3rd party vendors to switch to remanufacturing, it's not hard to believe that the other companies will do the exact same thing. Of course, a little hack and patch and you're back to 100% again with a 3rd party battery. The only thing that'd stop them from selling the battery is if the OEM made it a DMCA offense to hack the firmware or fake who you really are.

As for the question of battery capacity, your total number of cells determines your top end charge capabilities. For smart batteries with smart circuits, and a unified cell design, you simply control the maximum charge by changing the cell firmware. So by rights, a 1200mah battery and a 2500mah battery of the same size and form factor are identical (assuming the unified cell design), save for the cell firmware.

Now as for the 1930mah battery, I call fake on that. It's got too much that cries fowl about it.

allnameswereout

2009-10-01, 19:28

Gold battery, lol. Type BL-5J clearly meant to sound genuine.

When li-ion/li-poly batteries go bad they go extremely (violently) bad. So, I tend to trust vendor-original batteries more than unknown ones.Also, by using what majority uses, when these batteries are known to go bad they are recalled. Well, except in case of one certain corporation...

Some 3party batteries don't have the very important built-in protection circuit, for example. So, without knowing for certain, I won't trust them. But that's just meYup. Using any third party battery voids your warranty.

Although sometimes you need to resort to unofficial solutions like Badcaps.net (http://www.badcaps.net/) I'd not do this with new device under warranty with a good battery. Instead, buy a second official battery, or buy a 3rd party battery when your primary battery has gone bad, or wait for a battery with a brand name and good track record (and therefore good name to defend) such as Mugen.

daveb70

2009-10-01, 19:47

As for the question of battery capacity, your total number of cells determines your top end charge capabilities. For smart batteries with smart circuits, and a unified cell design, you simply control the maximum charge by changing the cell firmware. So by rights, a 1200mah battery and a 2500mah battery of the same size and form factor are identical (assuming the unified cell design), save for the cell firmware.

Hmmm, I was under the impression it was more a factor of quality, similar to how CPU processors which may all churn out from the same fabrication plant are binned according to speed, and obviously their cache has to function. (or they may turn into crippled Celerys of yesteryear)

In my long ago days of R/C car racing we'd always pay more for higher capacity cells. Cheaper cells (fewer mAh) were also less likely to be matched (putting simiilar charge/discharge curved cells together in a pack). I can't imagine even with lithium-ion batteries companies would make high capacity cells and put them in a pack, cripple them with limiters (in a very loose sense) and then sell them as lower cap batteries. Maybe I'm misunderstanding Lord Raiden's take on what I quoted above, or "smart battery" production technology does not agree with me and appears wasteful and costly.

I would hope that even the cell/portable device battery industry would work in the same manner, giving legitimate reason for charging more for a battery with higher capacity- because they are either harder to come by (elite picks from the QC department) or they cost more to make.

I won't speak for misrepresentation of capacity by foreign knockoff battery brands. We all know we take risks buying cheap. YGWYPF

qole

2009-10-01, 19:49

... all you'd need is a DIYS Nokia Battery Door Kit! Home Depot anyone? Lol. Someone get out the easy bake oven and some clay! We're making an extended battery cover :D

That is going to be VERY tricky to do, since the sliding camera door is partly over the battery at the moment. If you want a bigger battery in the same slot, it is going to require some differently shaped batteries, at the least (they can't be a constant thickness for the whole length of the battery).

But a new third-party back cover with a big kickstand would be nice.

mece

2009-10-01, 20:03

I'm always sceptical when it comes to cheap batteries. I've managed to bloat a couple of cheap lipos (while charging, with a proper charger. Talking rc batteries here) without doing anything wrong. If you're not there when it happens, so you can turn it off, things go bad. Very bad.

Here's a youtube video of some finnish rc guys demonstrating the bad mentioned above:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCWdnjLqVWw

R-R

2009-10-01, 20:11

Anyone has the gear to test this battery and compare it to a stock BL-5J ?
Also on the safety/construction side afterward ? :)

zkyevolved

2009-10-01, 23:25

Anyone has the gear to test this battery and compare it to a stock BL-5J ?
Also on the safety/construction side afterward ? :)

I would chip in a few bucks to the purchase of this for testing :P I'm just curious! LOL.

But I will be purchasing a second battery and an external charger (so I don't need the battery in the phone to charge it, that way every morning I'll have two ^^) hehe.

Lord Raiden

2009-10-01, 23:43

Hmmm, I was under the impression it was more a factor of quality, similar to how CPU processors which may all churn out from the same fabrication plant are binned according to speed, and obviously their cache has to function. (or they may turn into crippled Celerys of yesteryear)

In my long ago days of R/C car racing we'd always pay more for higher capacity cells. Cheaper cells (fewer mAh) were also less likely to be matched (putting simiilar charge/discharge curved cells together in a pack). I can't imagine even with lithium-ion batteries companies would make high capacity cells and put them in a pack, cripple them with limiters (in a very loose sense) and then sell them as lower cap batteries. Maybe I'm misunderstanding Lord Raiden's take on what I quoted above, or "smart battery" production technology does not agree with me and appears wasteful and costly.

I would hope that even the cell/portable device battery industry would work in the same manner, giving legitimate reason for charging more for a battery with higher capacity- because they are either harder to come by (elite picks from the QC department) or they cost more to make.

I won't speak for misrepresentation of capacity by foreign knockoff battery brands. We all know we take risks buying cheap. YGWYPF
Well, you are right in the fact that OEM's will sell inferior batteries in the lower MAH categories, just like the chip makers sell chips that can't be clocked to full speed as their less speedy siblings. But if they can't get enough of the lesser or "semi-failed" units to fill the orders for the smaller capacity batteries, they'll simply "downclock" (to use a cpu term) the higher capacity batteries to fill those slots.

As I said, to save money they use one common battery, and then label and program them based on how they perform. So if you had the bios code for the smart chip, you *could* take your battery up to the higher capacity, but then it may or may not give you full capacity and may risk some nasty side effects. And again, this is using the unified cell design, similar to the BP-4L and others like it. This doesn't apply to the ones that use separate cells, where more cells = more MAH, such as laptop batteries.

Another side note. Laptop batteries and multi-cell designs tend to be "dumb" batteries, in the fact that the smart charging chip is actually on the unit itself, and not the battery. Smaller devices like the NITs, phones and such have to offload that work to a tiny chip on the battery itself.

urnass

2009-10-02, 00:53

I'd be dubious about the battery too, but here is a device that measure battery discharge capacity (mAh). http://www.californiasailplanes.com/supertest.html (http://http://www.californiasailplanes.com/supertest.html). It says it works with NiCD and NiMD batteries, but it should work for any battery. I'm not sure of the normal load on the battery (mA), but I'd pick the 125mA setting, as to high of a setting could damage the battery.

Here a pricer option:http://http://www.siriuselectronics.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=51&products_id=348

The basic test method required integrating the battery's current over time. This is most easily done by connecting the battery in series with a current meter / multi-meter and a resistor (appropriately sized to give a reasonable current draw on the battery). Then measure the current over time (shouldn't change much till the battery nears the end of it's life). Plot the data; calculate the area under the curve and you have the battery's capacity in Amp-hours or mAmp-hours (depending on the units used). Assuming the maximum current draw on the battery is 100ma @ 3.7V, you'd need a 37ohm resistor (or something close). If the battery really is 1950mAh & you only drawings 100ma, this test would take 19.5 hours.

Lord Raiden

2009-10-02, 01:02

Rushmore

2009-10-02, 01:07

I have wondered if you could do something like this without hurting the phone. I upgraded my G1 battery from the standard 1200mAh to a 2300mAh and did not notice anything negative.

Is there a reason NOT to do this?

-- AM

I just ordered the N900 today and also have a G1 with 2,300mah battery. G1 lasts two days with it (but no 3G radio on).

I will be interested in this battery for sure.

Jason404

2009-10-02, 01:13

Apply Occam's Razor. Surely if such high capacity batteries were available, that did not have any downsides, Nokia would be using them as OEM?

bugelrex

2009-10-02, 01:17

Apply Occam's Razor. Surely if such high capacity batteries were available, that did not have any downsides, Nokia would be using them as OEM?

I think the biggest head-scratcher is why didn't Nokia just use the 1500 mAh battery. I mean just the space wasted by the stylus would be helped squeeze it in

Jason404

2009-10-02, 01:42

I think the biggest head-scratcher is why didn't Nokia just use the 1500 mAh battery. I mean just the space wasted by the stylus would be helped squeeze it in

Nah, the stylus is good. I would have thought it would be useful on such a high DPI screen, where things can get very small in some apps. I would also much prefer to have the ability to sketch and take handwritten notes than have a capacitive touchscreen with multitouch,

urnass

2009-10-02, 02:21

That product is only or RC toy batteries, and it's a bit dated considering it deals with the <1000mah battery group. What you need is a battery tester that specifically tests Lithium Polymer batteries.

True, those device are targeted toward RC, but that's only because the RC crowd has an ongoing need to determine if their battery packs still have a usable capacity after countless cycles. The device in the 2nd link lists Lithium batteries. The type of battery only seems to determine what voltage the device stop measuring/discharging, which could easily be overcome by manually measuring the voltage and disconnecting if one is afraid of over-discharging. Both device can test 10000mAh

Alex Atkin UK

2009-10-02, 03:16

I think I would rather they put a firmware lock on batteries and be ripped off, than risk it blowing up in my pocket because its a poorly manufactured fake.

daveb70

2009-10-02, 04:25

Just give me a USB-connected wrist strap with an interior surface which absorbs and converts my body heat into energy to charge my device.

Heh, look hard enough and someone's probably already done it: http://www.jamesdysonaward.org/Projects/Project.aspx?ID=568
(might have to click the blue English button)

We need someone here to start assembling some, I'm sure a well-deserved profit could be made from new N900 owners.

Here's another concept which we'll see more of next year as they get dealers in other parts of the world http://www.pedalpower.com.au/ Now take your N900 on those rugged geocaching trips with no worries on fading power.

I wish Nokia would offer a simple charging bracket/caddy you could use to charge a spare battery. Don't make it a one-piece unit that plugs directly into the wall like a block, but rather make it modular with a USB interface so you can charge it off a PC/laptop with a standard USB cable if needed or plug it in to a regular wall outlet from the same USB port..

robbie

2009-10-02, 06:01

IBut I will be purchasing a second battery and an external charger (so I don't need the battery in the phone to charge it, that way every morning I'll have two ^^) hehe.

I was looking for an external charger. Where did you find one?

epninety

2009-10-02, 07:18

The correct method for measuring these batteries is not to run with a constant load as suggested, but to present a load which draws a constant power (current increasing as volatge drops). This more accurately mimics the expected use case for this type of battery, which is power some electrnoic device via a dc-dc converter. It also protects the battery by switching off at a predetermined voltage, to prevent cell damage.

I have an electronic load available, like this one :-

http://www.teknetelectronics.com/Search.asp?p_ID=24026&pDo=DETAIL

I don't have either battery, but if one of each (plus some method of charging them) were available, it would be trivially simple for me to test them. The load just logs voltage and a current into the PC, and switches off the load at the damage level of the battery automatically. I don't even have to be there!

Johnx

2009-10-02, 08:09

I don't even have to be there!

Though you'll probably wish you were there if some cheap knock-off battery burns down your house. :) (I assume you test it while stored in a metal bucket or something similar, but I couldn't resist. :) )

epninety

2009-10-02, 08:44

Sadly, if you test enough of these things you get a bit blase about it (until one actually *does* burn your house down of course).

I kept a failed Electrovaya Powerpad on my test bench as a demo piece for several years. these things are 16V 8Ah and about the size of an A4 writing pad.

This one swelled so much it was about 3 inches thick in the middle!

Sasler

2009-10-02, 08:52

Here's another concept which we'll see more of next year as they get dealers in other parts of the world http://www.pedalpower.com.au/ Now take your N900 on those rugged geocaching trips with no worries on fading power..

This is a interesting concept, but I presume that it is rather pricey. What about using one of those old dynamos for the headlight in your bike? Just add some clever electronics and a Micro-USB connector and then we have a very cheap, noisy and inefficient but fairly entertaining charger on the go for the N900... :D

zkyevolved

2009-10-02, 09:05

I was looking for an external charger. Where did you find one?

External Charger (http://cgi.ebay.es/Desktop-Battery-Main-Charger-Nokia-BL-5J-5800-5230-N900_W0QQitemZ270454685740QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Mo bilePhones_MobilePhoneAccessories_MobilePhoneCharg ers?hash=item3ef85b002c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)

that's the euro version (and US).

Here's a battery:

Singapur Battery (OEM) (http://cgi.ebay.es/OEM-BL-5J-BL5J-New-Battery-Nokia-5800-XpressMusic_W0QQitemZ250495961143QQcmdZViewItemQQp tZPDA_Accessories?hash=item3a52b90837&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)

That ships from singapur.

This one from china:
Hong Kong (OEM) Battery (http://cgi.ebay.es/Nokia-BL-5J-Battery-OEM-BL5J-5800-5800XM-XPRESS-MUSIC_W0QQitemZ280397693167QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_M obilePhoneAccessories?hash=item41490140ef&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)

and then this one from the UK (for more centralized shipping, but more expensive (A LOT, rather than 60 cents for the chinese "original" one, but it does look legit.)

UK (OEM) Battery (http://cgi.ebay.es/Nokia-BL-5J-Original-Genuine-Battery-5800-Xpress-Music_W0QQitemZ320422990947QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_M obilePhones_MobilePhoneAccessories_MobilePhoneBatt eries?hash=item4a9ab2d463&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)

I'm probably going to order the charger & the battery from the UK. They're not that expensive for OEM. But for $hits and Giggles I'm going to order the 60 cent one and see if it's REALLY an OEM one with the correct hologram.

zkyevolved

2009-10-02, 12:45

This is a interesting concept, but I presume that it is rather pricey. What about using one of those old dynamos for the headlight in your bike? Just add some clever electronics and a Micro-USB connector and then we have a very cheap, noisy and inefficient but fairly entertaining charger on the go for the N900... :D

I'm sure many people use those in other countries, i've seen it on documentaries and such. Imagine buying a new phone, and having to charge it like that for 8 hours.... Call Martha Stewart, and tell her you've got your "Charging your phone while keeping in shape" video all planned out :D haha.

Have you guys seen 30 Rock? The episode where Tracy tries to sell a machine that replaces bread with 2 other slabs of meat? Well, in that episode they made a comical reference to Whoopy and said "Working Out with Whoopi" and Whoopi G was working out. It was hilarious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff9uYuh3XsQ

LINK :D

shadowjk

2009-10-02, 13:21

Another side note. Laptop batteries and multi-cell designs tend to be "dumb" batteries, in the fact that the smart charging chip is actually on the unit itself, and not the battery. Smaller devices like the NITs, phones and such have to offload that work to a tiny chip on the battery itself.

It's the other way around.
Bigger units have the space for smarter chips onboard the battery module, especially in laptop battery designs you need balancing chips to make sure no individual cells are getting out of sync with the others.

The NITs have no ICs in the batteries. There's mechanical thermal and overcurrent protection in the battery. (often missing or defective on third party batteries since it's a cost saving the consumer wont notice with their eyes until it all goes boom). The charging logic is in the tablet. There is a resistor in the battery for signaling the design capacity. The battery meter software uses that information for estimating remaining capacity and presenting battery low warning. It seems to ultimately make shutdown decision based on voltage though, not on calculated remaining capacity. The same applies when charging, it charges the battery to full (except if you use a "Special" charger, then it takes it up to slightly less than full and holds it there). Full is detected by charge current and battery voltage. It's essentially the only sensible way of charging Li-Ion (and Li-Polymer).

Venemo

2010-03-18, 00:21

In the comments section of this article (http://nokiaaddict.com/2010/02/09/the-n900-get-a-bigger-battery-2400mah/), someone claims that he tried this 1930 mAh battery and it worked fine for him.

Alex Atkin UK

2010-03-18, 04:13

In the comments section of this article (http://nokiaaddict.com/2010/02/09/the-n900-get-a-bigger-battery-2400mah/), someone claims that he tried this 1930 mAh battery and it worked fine for him.

But how do we know that's not just the seller of that battery posting the comment?

Venemo

2010-03-18, 07:24

But how do we know that's not just the seller of that battery posting the comment?
True, we don't know. I was hoping that someone here already tried it.

sygys

2010-03-18, 07:50

couldnt it be that nokia doesnt make their batteries more powerfull because of safety measurements? and companies like these have different guidelines for this that are not as tight ?

In a short while we will have batteries with nano tubes that can be recharged in only 2 minutes with a higher capacity and not losing power when not used. i read this

A new manufacturing method for lithium-ion batteries could lead to smaller, lighter batteries that can be charged in just seconds.

Batteries that discharge just as quickly would be useful for electric and hybrid cars, where a quick jolt of charge is needed for acceleration.

The approach only requires simple changes to the production process of a well-known material.

The new research is reported in the scientific journal Nature.

Because of the electronic punch that they pack, gram for gram, lithium-ion batteries are the most common rechargeable batteries found in consumer electronics, such as laptops.

However, they take a long time to charge; researchers have assumed until now that there was a speed limit on the lithium ions and electrons that pass through the batteries to form an electrochemical circuit.

Tiny holes

Gerbrand Ceder, at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), US, and his colleagues used a computer simulation to model the movements of ions and electrons in a variant of the standard lithium material known as lithium iron phosphate.

The simulation indicated that ions were moving at great speed.

"If transport of the lithium ions was so fast, something else had to be the problem," Professor Ceder said.

That problem turned out to be the way ions passed through the material.

They pass through minuscule tunnels, whose entrances are present at the surface of the material.

However, the team discovered that to get into these channels, the ions had to be positioned directly in front of the tunnel entrances - if they were not, they could not get through.

The solution, Ceder discovered, was to engineer the material such that it has a so-called "beltway" that guides the ions towards the tunnel entrances.

Traffic management

A prototype battery made using the new technique could be charged in less than 20 seconds - in comparison to six minutes with an untreated sample of the material.

Most commercial batteries use a material made up of lithium and cobalt, but lithium iron phosphate does not suffer from overheating - something that has affected laptop and mp3 player batteries in a number of incidents.

Even though it is cheap, lithium iron phosphate has until now received little attention because lithium cobalt batteries can store slightly more charge for a given weight.

However, the researchers found that their new material does not lose its capacity to charge over time in the way that standard lithium ion batteries do.

That means that the excess material put into standard batteries to compensate for this loss over time is not necessary, leading to smaller, lighter batteries with phenomenal charging rates.

What is more, because there are relatively few changes to the standard manufacturing process, Professor Ceder believes the new battery material could make it to market within two to three years.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7938001.stm

sophocha

2010-03-18, 07:58

In the comments section of this article (http://nokiaaddict.com/2010/02/09/the-n900-get-a-bigger-battery-2400mah/), someone claims that he tried this 1930 mAh battery and it worked fine for him.

Must be the seller!.....you must always look for the negative feedback of the seller on ebay....it doesn`t look good

cr0c0

2010-03-18, 08:09

What is more, because there are relatively few changes to the standard manufacturing process, Professor Ceder believes the new battery material could make it to market within two to three years.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7938001.stm

It's been my experience that next quarter actually means next year, three years to market means closer to ten years, and within twenty years means never.

Venemo

2010-03-18, 13:24

Must be the seller!.....you must always look for the negative feedback of the seller on ebay....it doesn`t look good
I dunno. He has a 99.6% percentage, which is not bad. The negative feedback is really terrible (as you said), but there are very much positive ones.
Perhaps I'll try this out somewhen.

TA-t3

2010-03-18, 15:40

couldnt it be that nokia doesnt make their batteries more powerfull because of safety measurements? and companies like these have different guidelines for this that are not as tight ?
Not really. There are currently no lithium-ion or lithium-polymer technology available outside of labs that significantly increases power density. You should only expect normal variation, i.e. 10% or so. It's extremely unlikely that someone would be able to make a 1930mAh battery within the same volume as a 1320mAh battery. [We've been over this several times already btw.. ]
If you want more power you'll have to get one of those that come with a replacement back cover, i.e. a thicker battery (like those Mugens make).

bugelrex

2010-03-18, 17:59

Alternatively, a company could come up with an 'internal casing' which removes the space for the stylus and some dead space so you can fit a 1500mAh battery in their.

If you put the E71 and N900 battery side by side, you'll see it could definitely squeeze in the n900 if the deadspace was removed.

lohiaprateek

2010-03-18, 18:09

mugen power..they are really good...they had a review on tech crunch if i remember

mr_bridger

2010-03-18, 21:09

i posted this in another thread... but though id put it here too, its most likely a porper fake!...

OK.... so i though sod it, i may as well do it now.....

Check the following out.... in all the pics with 3 batteries, the middle one is FAKE.... so i dismantled it....

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v169/mini-marauder/BL5J/

Most worringly is the fact it says its 1320mah on the label, AND in the software (lshal grep).... but inside it says 850mah!!!

most of it was stuck together with sticky foam / glue...

and you can also see what i mean about the hologram colours.

the shape of the face is slightly different....

i also made sure i used 2 genuine batteries from different countries... one came with the N900 itself, and the other from the link i provided earlier.. text does differ between the two genuine ones, so that cant be used to confirm a fake.

hope this helps some peeps out...

®

nikolag

2010-03-22, 07:15

Here is youir answer on the 1930Mah superbattery... Absolute fake. You can order them in batches of hundreds from China via Alibaba. They have BL-5C, BL-6C, BL-4C, BP-6M, so on... Amazingly they are ALL 1930Mah and they are all Made in Japan but Manufactured in China. :D Hit the link below:

http://bestmpa.en.alibaba.com/product/213836979-201373262/BL_5C_Gold_High_capacity_battery_1930mAh_for_Mobil e_Phone.html

shadowjk

2010-03-22, 16:18

I'm sure you can get them to slap a "3720mAh nanotube technology" label on it if you ask for it :)

AndiThebest

2010-03-22, 16:31

i have bought this battery, its not so powerful as the original battery.
lshal says it has 1200mAh

nikolag

2010-03-23, 04:29

Since we are on the roll with fake battery capacities, I thought that I would mention Mugen's high capacity batteries of same size which belong in this thread as well.

Someone earlier mentioned that they had good experiences with them. In my case I purchased two 1800Mah Mugen batteries for my E72 as opposed to the OEM 1500Mah. Those were big time fakes as well. The performance was beyond obviously worse than the OEM.

kaos_king

2010-03-23, 15:38

Looks like i'll be getting a second genuine one then along with a desktop charger.

Good work mr bridger on the dismantle and proving its a fake.

kaos_king

2010-03-25, 10:29

I ordered THIS (http://www.evertop.co.uk/p/1064587/genuine-nokia-bl-5j-battery-ac-usb-powered-desktop-charger-pack-with-free-usb-cable-for-nokia-x6-16gb-n900-5800-xpress-music---bl5j.html) the other day and it came this morning.

Looking at Mr Bridger's pictures above, the battery is actually genuine. The charger is chinese and made by yiboyuan, but seems to be ok. I have put it on charge now and will report back once I know the usage of it.

Nipperoid

2010-03-27, 09:45

man from boltons no responce = house burned down? i swear i smelt burning here in manchester a couple days ago :D

andrew_85

2010-03-27, 15:39

so guys do u suggest this battery or not??

kaos_king

2010-03-28, 14:50

nikolag

2010-03-31, 05:05

so guys do u suggest this battery or not??

If you are referring to the 1930Mah super battery, I would say no. In the best case it would as good as the Nokia genuine. Then you might as well buy genuine and know that it will really be 1320Mah.

I was considering asking the chineese manufacturer if they can rebrand it for me to Triple Platinum(Gold is for loosers) and make it state 31,930Mah, nuclear powered. Maybe that would sell better? Perhaps for $15? :)

assetburned

2010-04-01, 23:48

hmm to be honest i think this whole battery market is a mess.
when i started with AA batteries you could buy rechargeable ones with 650mAh now (nearly 20 year later) you can get 3000mAh batteries. But the technologie changed from NiCd to NiFe and NiMH to nowadays LSD NiMH batteries.
so with new technologies and some time these amount of increase is understandable.

but if it comes to Li-Ion or LiPoly then i think differently. The higher capacities had been quite expensive at the beginning so companies used to sell 750mAh, 850mAh or even 1000mAh batteries without letting the customers know what they get. They simply used their own format and put their own label, with a strange name, on the battery.
especially Nokia is such a company. they produce several different mobiles with different battery types. and after a while they switch back to old known types. but now they can't just rename them and sell them with more mAh. the new batteries could be used in the old devices as well.
so they still sell the old types with the old specs, even if there are batteries with the same diameter and more mAh.

if i'm wrong show me the truth, but so far that is what i think. and i can't blame Nokia for it. if i had old products on stock i would try to sell them, as well.

on the other hand. i would always compare batteries to similar ones.
my Huawei e5830 has a huawei battery with similar diameters but an capacity of 1500mAh. so i would say that there is a possibility for 1500mAh batteries that could be used in the N900... but more then that.... nope not at the moment.

shadowjk

2010-04-02, 12:28

BL-5C which is probably the oldest Nokia battery still in use, has grown in capacity from 750 to 1000 over 10 or so years, iirc..

by the way, there are no 3000mAh AA nimh batteries, they're all lying.

zimon

2010-04-02, 12:55

Luckly no fires yet! lol

I used this second battery twice now and it seems very similar to the original. I will do a benchmark test by fully charging them and playing a video til it runs out and see how the times differ

If you have installed BatteryGraph earlier, you could check if the chart changes between the original and the new battery, like here (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=38068&page=16). I think only objective easy way, if you look at the graph in 21 days window. The hard way would be to use powertop-program and alalyze after few full cycles.

assetburned

2010-04-03, 16:56

@zimon does the batterygrapher have a daemon like battery-eye?

slewis1972

2010-04-08, 13:10

Ronaldo

2010-04-08, 14:09

Hi
I bought one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320412723818&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

And first day using it. So far, its on 79% after 6 hrs, and thats with checking emails and about 40 mins of usings panucci podcast player. I am also running the n900 overclocked to 900.

mate can you use that battery measure app and see what the results are?

do a full charge and make some calls, say 20mins, run nokia maps, 20mins, surf 20mins. make some more calls, check emails, use wifi and 3G

if this is better then nokia one and actually last longer then i would get one!

cheers

nax3000

2010-04-08, 19:01

Hi
I bought one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320412723818&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

And first day using it. So far, its on 79% after 6 hrs, and thats with checking emails and about 40 mins of usings panucci podcast player. I am also running the n900 overclocked to 900.

If you observe the battery it says "made in japan". Usually products made there are top notch. The stock one you get is probably made in china (even if the device is korean). I'd really like to get one of these now :)
________
NEW MEXICO DISPENSARIES (http://newmexico.dispensaries.org/)

tangs

2010-04-08, 19:10

if it's good one, i'll order it asap ! :)

shazzy84

2010-04-08, 21:35

If you observe the battery it says "made in japan". Usually products made there are top notch. The stock one you get is probably made in china (even if the device is korean). I'd really like to get one of these now :)

Hows the battery life so far?

tissot

2010-04-08, 21:42

I never even thought about getting new non Nokia battery, but for a £10 i could be interested.... let us know if N900 explodes ;)

bugelrex

2010-04-08, 21:53

mahousaru

2010-04-08, 22:37

Read the feedback for the seller in regards to the battery. Search for "GOLD"

Why do you want to be the "next fool"

http://feedback.ebay.com.my/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=digi.tech1&iid=-1&de=off&items=25&which=negative&interval=30

Battery DON'T WORK PROPERLY, cheap REPLICA, don't fit well, don't last long

Fake item, TOTALLY WASTE OF MONEY!!! (battery benchmark result = 1200-1230 mAh)

Item disappointed me, battery holds charge only 1 day, it's not a real 1900mAh

didn't hold charge anywhere near as much as genuine battery, say 75% of it.

Errrmmm don't want to support a item I haven't tested myself, but that is 2 bad reports of the BL-5J out of 31 bad reports. I'm not going to trawl the positive reviews to see how many are for the item in question, but I think you should try to be a bit more unbiased when posting such a warning!

*Edit*
Ah I read your post properly, and I guess you were trying to warn people away from your bad experience!

lexi1986

2010-04-08, 22:44

i have this battery when it is fully charged it's 1230mah and no 1900 its the same as the original batterij I dont see a difference between battery time. so the 1900mah is fake.

NokiaRocks

2010-04-08, 22:47

I bought such a " gold battery " for my N95 8gb and it's terrible lol

mahousaru

2010-04-08, 22:47

i have this battery when it is fully charged it's 1230mah and no 1900 its the same as the original batterij I dont see a difference between battery time. so the 1900mah is fake.

Doh that is a shame. For 10 nuggets it still isn't bad, as long as it has a decent amount of recharge cycles left and doesn't explode!

shadowjk

2010-04-09, 21:29

i have this battery when it is fully charged it's 1230mah and no 1900 its the same as the original batterij I dont see a difference between battery time. so the 1900mah is fake.

I'd like to point out that the values reported by hal-device bme, battery-eye, batterygraph and similar are all based on what the battery says, not the actual capacity of the battery.

With the original nokia battery, this matches pretty well with the actual battery.

The way you notice if it's less than reported, is for example if it suddenly drops from 30% to 5% very rapidly...

Currently the best way to test the battery capacity is just to do some repeatable and consistent test. Such as uninterrupted mp3 playback with the device offline and screen off, and timing that. Or a movie on loop.

I'm working on talking directly to a battery "fuel gauge" chip in the N900, which has the ability, with some post-processing, to accurately measure the amount of energy going in and out of the battery, and thus benchmark it nicely.

zimon

2010-04-14, 19:17

@zimon does the batterygrapher have a daemon like battery-eye?

Yes it does.

Nokia-N900-42-11:~# ps a|grep -i Bat
1577 user 2084 S sh -c /opt/BatteryGraph/bin/BatteryGraphd
1590 user 22196 S /opt/BatteryGraph/bin/BatteryGraphd
11236 root 2092 S grep -i Bat

And what is convenient, you can export up to 21 days history as a image PNG file.

Ronaldo

2010-04-14, 19:32

ooop i forgot to reply to this thread. battery is not very good its same as the nokia one but does charge faster. going to return it for refund.

dont waste your money to test its no point.

cheers

listen to the groove

2010-06-26, 03:14

i was very close to getting this battery too.....thank god for this thread...looks like the battery is your typical chinese knock off.....same thing happened to me when i ordered these iphone headphones...i even asked the seller if they were the genuine article.....should have known better....when i got them they were total shite, **** sound quality, cheap material being used...etc.....

kingxxx70

2010-06-26, 15:07

i just bought two of this

will let you know how I go:

http://www.eastmaze.com/High-Capacity-1500mAh-BL-5J-Battery-for-Nokia-Cell-Phone-p1394-c63.html

listen to the groove

2010-06-27, 02:06

i just found this : https://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.32398

and this courtesy of a forum member here :

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.32444

lanwellon

2010-06-27, 06:42

As I said before, in the thread discussing the same topic,

1350mAH is the max capacity of this battery in the same size !

F2thaK

2010-07-02, 05:21

i just bought two of this

will let you know how I go:

http://www.eastmaze.com/High-Capacity-1500mAh-BL-5J-Battery-for-Nokia-Cell-Phone-p1394-c63.html

i bought one of these, got it today, about 5 days postage....

will let u guys kno

patt2k

2010-07-02, 11:40

i bought one of these, got it today, about 5 days postage....

will let u guys kno

can you check usign the command execution widget what is the mAh showing when you have the battery insterted? on ebay i bought fake 1500 mah it showed 694

gsever

2010-07-02, 11:53

can you check usign the command execution widget what is the mAh showing when you have the battery insterted? on ebay i bought fake 1500 mah it showed 694

What is the command to query the battery capacity. Out of curiosity I want to see what the actual battery shows.

F2thaK

2010-07-02, 11:59

what does a original nokia one say?

edit: battery(mah) = 534/1258 (@ 42%)

CaPsLoCkTrOjAn

2010-07-02, 12:07

What is the command to query the battery capacity. Out of curiosity I want to see what the actual battery shows.

lshal|grep battery will tell you everything you need to know about the battery, including capacity and all that jazz

F2thaK

2010-07-02, 12:14

okay:

eastmaze "1500mAh" (http://www.eastmaze.com/High-Capacity-1500mAh-BL-5J-Battery-for-Nokia-Cell-Phone-p1394-c63.html) = 1258 mAh

origionl nokia = 1265 mAh

patt2k

2010-07-02, 12:15

seems like only source for n900 battery is either off nokia site or mugen power I will buy the mugenpower one I think its 15$ and at least you know you wont get screwed over

tsuishui

2010-07-02, 12:16

NEVER trust the battery from China. It will harm your N900!

F2thaK

2010-07-02, 12:22

so...... mugens ($15 one) is the same as orig nokia?

patt2k

2010-07-02, 12:38

so...... mugens ($15 one) is the same as orig nokia?

ouch i swear i saw those batts were 15$.

now ->

http://www.mugen-power-batteries.com/nokia/nokia-n900.html

39$ ;o

F2thaK

2010-07-02, 13:26

cheaper to get original nokia! WTF?

patt2k

2010-07-02, 13:38

cheaper to get original nokia! WTF?

well i really wanna try that mugen power i heard good reviews about their batts ;) i just enabled that supereflex thingy coz my battery original from nokia has been so bad.. i hope it now improves but either way i will try it soon

gsever

2010-07-02, 13:57

lshal|grep battery will tell you everything you need to know about the battery, including capacity and all that jazz

hal-device bme does the same thing.

My current battery is the original Nokia battery listed on this page (http://natisbad.org/N900/n900-commented-hardware-specs.html)

Capacity 1256 mAh (in about 6 months it is not bad.) Not sure the battery voltage tops over 3.7V mine currently says 4.04 (max is at 4.2V)

thingonaspring

2010-07-08, 22:45

Thought I'd add a little to the battery discussion.
I bought a "1930mAH gold" battery from ebay.

It was working very badly, so I decided to take a look under the gold sticker, here's a picture of what I discovered.

The pic isn't great but you can easily make out "750mAH" on the battery's casing.

Had to laugh really - I only spent £4 on it after all.

mooneypilot

2010-07-31, 23:46

I was about to buy one of those UK gold batts..now glad I didnt.

I did however, buy a pair of oem looking batts (about $5 and free shipping) to try from the cellshop on ebay..one was dead on receipt and the other one sort of works but isn't as good as my original OEM.
For $5, I'm not complaining.

btw,
lshal command shows :
battery.reporting.design = 1294 for my original Nokia batt.
battery.reporting.design = 1250 for the cellshop ebay batt.

I would think somone could make a double thick batt around 2500mah and provide a new back with a slight bump out...that would sell..even if it was made up of 2 nokia OEM batts stacked.
This is a great forum...!

sophocha

2010-07-31, 23:51

Well, it`s time to get one of these bad boys and your problems will be gone :)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4044/4475598523_5741d640b2_b.jpg

shadowjk

2010-08-01, 16:41

I would think somone could make a double thick batt around 2500mah and provide a new back with a slight bump out...that would sell..even if it was made up of 2 nokia OEM batts stacked.
This is a great forum...!

There is one. 2400 mAh. Makes your N900 7mm thicker. Battery meter gets confused as hell by it, but it's genuinely 2400mAh.

tmo thread: http://http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=38068 (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=38068)
product page: http://shop.eten.hu/nokia/nokia-n900/mugen-power-nokia-n900-2400mah-extended-replacement-battery-with-battery-door.html

hoxtonhopper

2010-08-11, 23:42

What about using one of those old dynamos for the headlight in your bike? Just add some clever electronics and a Micro-USB connector and then we have a very cheap, noisy and inefficient but fairly entertaining charger on the go for the N900... :D

I'm using a charger called Zzing (http://zzing.de/English_Zzing/), which takes power from my Schmidt dynohub and provides 5v USB for my N900 on the move. Works a treat :)

xellvortex

2010-08-13, 20:57

Just wanted to let you know that the battery you are buying is a fake. Here is a link to the company in china that is selling them. They are actually rated at 1050mAh and the manufacturer is asking the buyer to specify the rating wanted. They specified 1930mAh to make it sound believable and sell them. ;)

http://bestmpa.en.alibaba.com/product/239287853-200404664/BP_6MT_1930_mAh_Gold_mobile_phone_Batteries_for_E5 1_N81_N82.html

aBs0lut3z33r0

2012-03-10, 23:34

nokia has already upgraded the BL-5J capacity to 1430mah , so stay away from ebay XXXX battery

romanianusa

2012-10-20, 16:45

I don't know about you guys but I bought this battery here at Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008JATNFQ/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00

Advertised as 2050 mAh
I tested and it charged up full to 660mAh or more.

Don't let the numbers fool you because this battery is AMAZING!! I believe i can use the phone for 2 straight days w/ regular usage such as text and phone call and music which mean it can last up to 48hrs of normal usage. Now compare that to my stock battery....there's no comparison, my stock battery from going to work and leaving work is all but dead for normal usage. Also, this NEW battery DOES NOT DRAINED!! I think if i leave it alone and never use the phone, it will last forever...well maybe not forever, but weeks and weeks. The reason i say this is because from the time i went to sleep to waking up and looking at the batterygraph, i see virtually a straight line slight slight unnoticeable decline for 8 hrs!!! That means it DOES NOT drained like the stock battery. I don't know about any other batteries like the SCUD or how those perform but this battery is the bomb so far. I just ordered another spare one.