3G videocall [Archive] - maemo.org

sinetype

2009-10-02, 11:24

Hi, i'm new here and i already ordered my N900.

I don't know if it's any help but i asked Nokia if the N900 will be able to make videocall using 3G. The answered i got was that Yes, the mobile is equipped for that (with the front camera) but it only depends on the network settings.

I'm just writing it because i saw a lot of forums saying it would be impossible. Actually, on the product page (on nokia.com) the N900 has listed "videocall: soon to be announced"

I also have another question. I'm new to this Linux world and i would like to know if it's possible for someone to create an editing software for maemo (like a mini final cut)? I think that would be really interessting.

DeeGee

2009-10-02, 12:48

I don't think any of our Maemo guys have commented on that (not that anyone has asked), but I'd imagine that means that they couldn't get the video call feature made in time and are planning on releasing it later.

I think converting already present Linux video authoring programs like Avidemux (http://fixounet.free.fr/avidemux/) should be possible.

sinetype

2009-10-02, 14:16

Thank you for your answer DeeGee.

Actually i was thinking about avidemux (great software). That would be a nice piece running on the N900.

nilchak

2009-10-02, 14:46

Just to add some perspective (old) , the older tablets N810 could do video call (using Gizmo or using the built in Gtalk to another tablet with Gtalk) over 3G.

Of course you did need a very good and fast connection (I had 3.5G speeds) and sometimes it was a bit spotty - but you could do it.

Dont know the specifics for the N900 though as yet.

ralphb

2009-10-02, 14:53

I don't know if it's any help but i asked Nokia if the N900 will be able to make videocall using 3G. The answered i got was that Yes, the mobile is equipped for that (with the front camera) but it only depends on the network settings.

It's been discussed elsewhere (http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31085) that Skype will be available on the N900, but, strangely, that it will not use the forward mounted camera. Whether this is to avoid irritating the 3G operators, I don't know. More likely it'll be because they plan to just port the old N800/810 version, which also doesn't support video.

range

2009-10-02, 15:01

thecursedfly

2009-10-02, 15:11

As far as I know, Skype won't have video, or won't be able to use the front facing camera (so you can't show yourself unless you renounce viewing the other person; if the back camera works of course); the phone calls don't have a "video call" option either (while my oldish Nokia 6630 has it since day 1.. :/ ), only voice calls available. About the other options, 99% of the people doesn't use them and doesn't know what they are (GTalk/Gizmo/other)...

I really hope they include a "video call" option soon.... (and possibly the front facing camera on skype too, but that depends on the skype devs I imagine...)

Actually, the front facing camera has no use in the current prototypes right?

andreuy1980

2009-10-02, 17:00

I have a n800, and I use Ekiga under the account rtcomm .
It's fine, I have a softphone on a PC, so I can do video calls from a N800 to a PC.
But yeah, gets choppy with bab networks, like no less than 1.5 mb/s.
So probably it's posible .

BUT I prefer a port of AMSN (linux live messenger with video)
in the n800/810 the port its very sluggiishh!!
Maybe the N900 could have enough power ??

mobiledivide

2009-10-02, 17:28

Actually, the front facing camera has no use in the current prototypes right?

I own an N810 and N800 which I have used to make videocalls over Gtalk/Gizmo and SIP using Diablo (maemo 4) and other previous editions of maemo, I would assume that the front facing camera is still usable for this on the N900.

Hogwash

2009-10-02, 21:00

If I can't make a TCP/IP videocall then I might as well cancel my order

UCOMM

2009-10-02, 21:01

If I can't make a TCP/IP videocall then I might as well cancel my order

i think you should

Hogwash

2009-10-02, 21:04

i think you should

You think I should cancel my order? Do you know for certain that videocalls are not going to be possible?

gerbick

2009-10-02, 21:17

Not initially, no. It bothers me... but not as much as you it seems.

Hogwash

2009-10-02, 21:22

Not initially, no. It bothers me... but not as much as you it seems.

It bothers me because this is my primary reason for buying it. I have family around the world and I want them to see my new(ish) daughter...see her play, grow up etc. Yes it's an awesome geek toy for a *nix hacker like me ;) but live video communication is my most absolutely necessary feature.

If I had some reassurance that whatever bugs exist would be ironed out within a reasonable timeframe, I could accept that....otherwise it's not worth $600 to me....

gerbick

2009-10-02, 21:29

I totally get why you'd want it. I want it since I don't always lug around my laptop.

But it's not a bug when it's not supported from the beginning.

Hogwash

2009-10-02, 21:38

But it's not a bug when it's not supported from the beginning.

Fair point....I used the wrong word. But still...I'm buying a device with a webcam - yet no webcam functionality! WTF ;)

I'm anxious to get this device and make great use of it. I'll be terribly disappointed if I can't do videocalls at some point soon.

Alex Atkin UK

2009-10-02, 21:40

i think you should

But wasn't it just said earlier in this thread that you CAN make video calls over TCP/IP, just not necessarily with Skype?

@Hogwash
It might help if you mentioned what specific service you need it to support. If its Skype, maybe you are out of luck. But if you are happy to ask your family to change their video chat software, it sounds like you should be fine.

To everyone else, what specific services are these working video chat clients actually running on?

Hogwash

2009-10-02, 22:00

mobiledivide

2009-10-02, 22:20

If I can't make a TCP/IP videocall then I might as well cancel my order

I have a sneaky suspicion that the N900 is not going to be what you want it to be from your posting history. The main thing you have to figure out about maemo is that there are many rough spots with the operating system, and there are many rough spots over at Nokia. The unbelievable bonus is that since its an open system on an open device, if you want something that seems to be theoretically possible but is not present, 8 times out of 10 you can do it yourself. Especially since you said you are a developer. You can also directly communicate with nokia and the maemo team through bugzilla and brainstorm and request features etc and get people to vote on them. This IMHO is why you should buy an N900.

The experience has been improved immeasurably since I started using maemo but for example remember that something like an integrated PIM solution which was wanted by many users since the 770 has never been enabled on maemo until maemo5.

To make videocalls on my n800 and N810 I always wanted to use skype since that's what my parents/wife and I use at home. It never came but I taught them how to use gizmo instead and we were perfectly happy to use that for the 5 or 6 times I wanted to video call them and I was not near my laptop.

sachin007

2009-10-02, 22:33

Good point Alex :)

I don't care what client I use. My parents are old and rely on Windoze...they could use the gmail chat I guess?

I'll use whatever it takes to get the job done....I'm a Fedora 11 guy ;)

I have used gizmo to video chat. It is nice and as long as the bandwidth is good there should not be major problems.

Now i do not know if gizmo would be ported to fremantle.....

jandmdickerson

2009-10-02, 22:38

I too have used Gizmo on the n810 and it worked well on wifi, and okay on 3g (tethered).

nMIK-3

2009-10-02, 23:41

It would be awesome plus extremely useful if they can implement Skype video calls on the N900 in the near future.

Alex Atkin UK

2009-10-03, 05:22

spinnukur

2009-10-03, 06:34

I would be really really shocked if there was not at least something to do video chat on the N900 over TCP/IP. Now if it will get round to supporting video calls over 3G is anothing thing entirely, yet the N900 was clearly designed to allow it.

So far the only carrier in the US to offer 3G video calling is AT&T and it's expensive as heck. I hope T-Mobile comes out with it, cause it would be uberepicpwnsauce...

nMIK-3

2009-10-03, 07:39

So far the only carrier in the US to offer 3G video calling is AT&T and it's expensive as heck. I hope T-Mobile comes out with it, cause it would be uberepicpwnsauce...
AT&T does not offer video call.
What they do offer is something they call video sharing which is only one way video share, junk expensive and worthless.

No network provider in USA is currently offer Video Call over network and nobody knows why.

Laughing Man

2009-10-04, 01:18

It would use up to much data. And they couldn't sell you "unlimited" data then.

Thesandlord

2009-10-04, 01:39

One problem I see is that I know no one else who has a phone that can do video calling. Some people have n95 and stuff, but they can't do video calling. Its like a European thing right?

If the N900 can do Google Chat or Skype with video that would be perfect. Something like Justin.tv or Livecast or Mebeam or meebo would be nice also (aka native client or webcam support in browser/flash) No one uses Gizmo...

I can't really think of a situation where I would video call on 3G, just seems very clumsy.

spinnukur

2009-10-04, 01:52

AT&T does not offer video call.
What they do offer is something they call video sharing which is only one way video share, junk expensive and worthless.

No network provider in USA is currently offer Video Call over network and nobody knows why.

Ahh, my mistake, I didn't read the entire description.

spinnukur

2009-10-04, 01:55

It would use up to much data. And they couldn't sell you "unlimited" data then.

When I was in Japan for a year, videocalling was part of my monthly package, I think I paid close to 15,000 yen for my plan everymonth and that was with a discount through the company I worked for.

With the amount of data the iphone uses, video calling I think wouldn't be that much more.

heavyt

2009-10-04, 01:59

15 000 Japanese yen = 167.34 U.S. dollars

spinnukur

2009-10-04, 03:11

15 000 Japanese yen = 167.34 U.S. dollars

Considering that's about normal price for most iPhone owners who have ATT that I know, and that was only $10 more than what I paid when I had my iPhone with ATT ( when you factor in minutes, text messaging, fees, etc ).

Even if paying an extra $20-30 a month gets me 3G video calling in the US, I'll take it.

Alex Atkin UK

2009-10-04, 05:23

How it works over here in the UK is if you are in a 3G area, you can make a video call. All the networks support it on all tariffs, its just charged at an extra high per minute rate and I believe the quality sucks.

I cannot verify the quality though as while I have owned a few phones which support it, the 3G coverage is too patchy. Chances are if I was in a 3G area my friend who also supports it would not be, so I never bothered to try.

Also when video calling was launched, all phones had dreadful video quality and as they have to be compatible with each other, I think its fair to say it probably sucks.

sachin007

2009-10-04, 05:41

I have used the inbuilt gtalk client to make a video call from my tablet to another tablet. Mine was on 3G tethered to my n95 while the other guy was at home on his wifi. The quality was okay and i could see and hear him clearly.

Now if some one made a video of two n900 using video calls that would be a great to show to all the iphone fanboys.

Alex Atkin UK

2009-10-04, 10:13

That is kinda what I was trying to say, that I do not think its any loss not being able to make NETWORK video calls as they will suck compared to the quality of newer codecs used for TCP/IP video chat.

rumeo

2009-10-04, 10:35

Video calling is an issue since many years, but nobody is using it. I spent maybe 2h on my N95 to make it work without success.
If Maemo finds a way for a very simple usage on the N900 with it's front camera, this could be a very strong argument against all other handsets.
Of course the markeitng guys must do the rest in order to success. Probably Skype should be in the boat, mobile to PC calls would be the main use case in the first place.

tomraider

2009-10-04, 10:43

I think the best deal for video calling in the UK is on an O2 contract (e.g. simplicity) where you can use your inclusive minutes (e.g. 800 mins on £20 a month) for video calling.

sinetype

2009-10-04, 12:31

Hi

When i posted my question, i totally forgot that videocall are not really used in many countries.

Here in Portugal we mainly use "pay as you go". The 3 main networks (vodafone, optimus and TMN) have a special price plan for only 10 euros, you can call, text, send mms and make videocall for free to all the people having the same plan as you have.

That's why i asked if the N900 was able to make videocall trough 3G. Since the plans are available, i use 3G videocall and MMS a lot.

Apparently it's gonna be possible. I'm just waiting for good mobile internet price plan (on vodafone 500mb a month it's an extra 15 euros). I think it's about to change with the new vodafone 360º.

Laughing Man

2009-10-04, 14:41

It's more a question of software. But if software from the n800 or n810 still works, or companies like Gizmo5 continue to support Nokia devices then yes we do have video calling. It is then just a matter of who can see you (do they have the same software installed)

nilchak

2009-10-04, 14:49

If I can't make a TCP/IP videocall then I might as well cancel my order

This does not seem to be the one breaking issue for you.
On every thread you seem to have a <if the N900 cant do x I might as well cancel my order>.

I wonder why you still haven't cancelled ?
And if its because you don't know the answers to your multiple "cancel my order" issues, then maybe you should wait till the N900 is out in the market - check it for yourself (instead of voicing empty cancel threats) and then decide for yourself.

Hogwash

2009-10-04, 15:01

This does not seem to be the one breaking issue for you.
On every thread you seem to have a <if the N900 cant do x I might as well cancel my order>.

I wonder why you still haven't cancelled ?
And if its because you don't know the answers to your multiple "cancel my order" issues, then maybe you should wait till the N900 is out in the market - check it for yourself (instead of voicing empty cancel threats) and then decide for yourself.

No. I think I've been pretty consistent - video chat is my prime concern.

Believe me, I totally 'get' the N900 and its Maemo platform - I'm a veteran *nix hacker ;) Been around the block many times. It's an extremely cool device and I'm very excited about the possibilities it opens up.

Of course the video chat issue can be resolved eventually with good software, I'm perfectly capable of helping out with that code - but believe it or not I don't have the time right now. I have some cool ideas for application-layer projects, and have signed up with the garage to enable me to start such projects....but getting involved in hobbyist hackery at the OS level is something I don't currently have the time to invest in. Hopefully this will change, and then I'd love to help.

But right now, my family is of greatest concern to me, and I just want a solution to an immediate problem more-or-less out the box. OK, saying "cancel my order" is a tad melodramatic, but this functionality really is a showstopper for me...it will be a great disappointment to me if it lets me down.

Hogwash

2009-10-04, 15:03

PS. I don't give a hoot about 3G videocalls....I only care about TCP/IP comms.

If I use the cellphone capabilities of the N900 at all, it will only be to purchase a data plan.

Thesandlord

2009-10-04, 15:56

http://wiki.maemo.org/Streaming_video_from_built-in_webcam

I use a modified version of this to stream video for me to stream video to my PC. There is also Gizmo which works on Windows.

Hogwash

2009-10-04, 18:24

Nice pointer, I'll bookmark that ;)

mattiviljanen

2009-10-04, 19:44

When I noticed that Skype on my N810 didn't have the video capability, first I thought it was because of insufficient processing power. That argument went down the drain, when I made a video call from N810 to N810 using Jabber/XMPP account... So, N900 sure has enough processing power, because even N810 did! So, Skype, please give us the video call option!

Then again... N900 combines your contacts. You can call your friend by mobile or by Skype the same way (the same application). This hides the medium which the call goes through - a very nice approach, if you ask me!

Laughing Man

2009-10-04, 20:12

thecursedfly

2009-10-04, 22:43

http://wiki.maemo.org/Streaming_video_from_built-in_webcam

I use a modified version of this to stream video for me to stream video to my PC. There is also Gizmo which works on Windows.

is there a way to create a quite simple application out of it? with some kind of gui for us non command line experts? :p
(and that asks for/installs the required packages automatically)
if anybody has the needed time for it of course.. ^^
maybe the same application could act as server and as viewer? (or make it easy to visualize the streaming source with another app)

sjgadsby

2009-10-05, 02:25

When I noticed that Skype on my N810 didn't have the video capability, first I thought it was because of insufficient processing power. That argument went down the drain, when I made a video call from N810 to N810 using Jabber/XMPP account...

That does assume that Skype's video codec and transfer protocol are equally lightweight and forgiving of delays and drops as Jabber/XMPP.

ysss

2009-10-05, 03:39

I think Skype is just hesitant about implementing video on mobile devices. Considering video chat for Skype is planned on the iPhone 3GS but it hasn't been implemented yet. (not to mention there's no forward facing camera so you have to align yourself with the camera somehow)..

Is this true?
Maybe it's not so bad to put on an optical accessory (cover) to reverse the front-facing camera to make video calls afterall.

Now if some one made a video of two n900 using video calls that would be a great to show to all the iphone fanboys.

DUDE, please share with us how they've bullied you ;) I really am curious what they've done to you to develop such deep seated hatred toward them..

@Hogwash: Please cancel your N900 preorder.. we'll let you know when it's safe to order ;)