View Full Version : Next-gen Nokia devices with Multitouch and Maemo 6 soon coming?
http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/10/next-gen-nokia-linux-devices-will-get-multitouch-and-qt-ui.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss
I want to buy N900 but with this news I'll wait some months (some months isn't that much long) to get the real new Maemo device and not a device for bypass time.
JayOnThaBeat
2009-10-13, 17:35
http://static.arstechnica.com/nokia-nseries.jpg
Back of N810WE?
Oh yes, and then you'll wait some more months because rumours of another device are coming up, and when that hits the market, you'll some more months, and so on... :)
If you like the device you should get it. If not, skip it. There will always be new mobile devices appearing. It's one of the most fast-living markets today.
Jay, what does your post mean???
That article is mere filler - it's a shabby rehash of what was gleaned from the summit. Not the sort of article to pin your hopes on - unless you're into playing the never-ending "I'll wait for the next best thing" game ;)
If by "some months" you mean 10 or more, then do wait. My phone is going to fall apart before then, and so is my Zaurus. The phone is over 3 years old, the Z over 5. That's like 17083 in gadget years. :D
Jay, what does your post mean???
They needed some image to pad the page out with, so they used some stock of the back of an older device - it looks a bit like the WiMax N810 to me too.
wesgreen
2009-10-13, 17:48
it's a pic in the post referred to below. the other thing that made me scratch my head was this: "Another major, though possibly controversial, goal for Nokia is to tightly integrate support for commercial content delivery channels in Maemo 6. The platform will have a sophisticated security framework to enforce DRM policies."
Until the DRM business model is thoroughly debunked, there will always be a demand for architectural support for it. So long as I can choose to not have it installed, I'm happy.
Peter@Maemo Marketing
2009-10-13, 17:53
http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/10/next-gen-nokia-linux-devices-will-get-multitouch-and-qt-ui.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss
I want to buy N900 but with this news I'll wait some months (some months isn't that much long) to get the real new Maemo device and not a device for bypass time.
Maemo 6 alpha SDK in q1 2010, beta in Q2 2010. Happy Waiting! ;-)
Maemo 6 alpha SDK in q1 2010, beta in Q2 2010. Happy Waiting! ;-)
This is what EVERY marketing people tells me if a new device is released :-)
Why no one promise that N900 is able to run Maemo 6 and without limitations?
Q2 2010 isn't a year away. You don't start developing the new hardware Q1 2010 if a beta is expected Q2 2010. Please don't tell me this fairy tale. You MUST know NOW if N900 runs Maemo 6 - or not. And take the european price sticker for the blinded one.
This is what EVERY marketing people tells me if a new device is released :-)
Why no one promise that N900 is able to run Maemo 6 and without limitations?
Q2 2010 isn't a year away. You don't start developing the new hardware Q1 2010 if a beta is expected Q2 2010. Please don't tell me this fairy tale. You MUST know NOW if N900 runs Maemo 6 - or not. And take the european price sticker for the blinded one.
That's for the software, not the hardware.
exhalationi di exasperationi
That's for the software, not the hardware.
The hardware will be developed after software release? :)
Sorry, but Nokia knows what successor comes next year and knows now if N900 is capable to run Maemo 6.
This is a selling point if Nokia say N900 runs Maemo 6. This is a lie if they say it but it doesn't run Maemo 6. This isn't a lie if they say they don't know and don't run Maemo 6 if Maemo 6 is released.
They needed some image to pad the page out with, so they used some stock of the back of an older device - it looks a bit like the WiMax N810 to me too.
Ah yes. It is.
I really don't understand your problem here. The N900 is a nice gadget phone that runs a nice open OS. Either you buy it for what it is, or you wait. Why are you demanding some kind of ridiculous statement from Nokia?
If you do a very little bit of homework here, you can see that the Maemo6-era device will have a multi-touch capable screen and the same resolution and processor family (omap3) as the N900. N900 doesn't have multitouch capability, so it will not work fully with Maemo6. Is that what you were looking for? In addition, the earliest such a device could become available is the last quarter of next year.
So, the choice is up to you; you buy it or you don't--there's no point in coming here and demanding that Nokia promises you anti-obsolescence.
Before I buy the N900, I wish Apple would tell me when they will bring out the iTablet and excatly what features it will have.
I am sure Apple know what features it will have and when it will be ready - so I want to to come out and tell me NOW.
Come-on Apple if you dont tell me now that you are bringing out an iTablet then you are lying ... rants on...
Riddaculous ..
So we know the Maemo6 device will have the same screen and OMAP3.
My prediction: the N900 will be able to run Maemo6 and the new device will be much like the N900 but with capacitive screen, and maybe more memory. Maybe without keyboard.
Releasing the Maemo 6 SDK doesn't mean that the device that goes with it is around the corner. The Maemo 5 SDK was first released in Alpha on 2009-03-02 and in Beta on 2009-04-28.
Given what Nokia has done in the past:
Maemo 1 - N770 - November 2005
Maemo 2 - N770 - November 2006
Maemo 3 - N800 - January 2007
Maemo 4 - N810 - November 2007
Maemo 5 - N900 - November 2009
It would be logical to expect Maemo 6 on the N910 (?) no sooner than November 2010.
If you can wait that long it will probably be a better OS on a better device. Of course the same can be said for the Android or Apple phones that we will see next November.
Rushmore
2009-10-13, 20:31
Must admit it would be ironic if the N900 is delayed juuust long enough for word to get out about other Nokia's on the roadmap. It would hurt their N900 sales.
Must admit it would be ironic if the N900 is delayed juuust long enough for word to get out about other Nokia's on the roadmap. It would hurt their N900 sales.
We already know there are other devices on the roadmap before we even get to Maemo 6.
We already know there are other devices on the roadmap before we even get to Maemo 6.
And interestingly enough, the high-level roadmap(s) as presented at the Summit are EXACTLY what I have asked/begged/complained for going on some time now... ;)
allnameswereout
2009-10-13, 21:17
Before I buy the N900, I wish Apple would tell me when they will bring out the iTablet and excatly what features it will have.
I am sure Apple know what features it will have and when it will be ready - so I want to to come out and tell me NOW.
Come-on Apple if you dont tell me now that you are bringing out an iTablet then you are lying ... rants on...
Riddaculous ..Riddleculous!! :D
ceroberts75
2009-10-14, 01:55
I am sure Apple know what features it will have and when it will be ready - so I want to to come out and tell me NOW.
Come-on Apple if you dont tell me now that you are bringing out an iTablet then you are lying ... rants on...
Riddaculous ..
my sources at apple say nothing to an "iTablet" at this time.
heck, they are still trying to figure out how to get the unit to actually run more then one app at a time...but i must say, they have done a heck-of-a-job promoting the heck out of thier new iPods that also make phone calls.
besides, if they did bring an itablet out, you would have the abililty to do anything you wanted on! absolutely anything.....so long as APPLE thinks it should do that! :P
Releasing the Maemo 6 SDK doesn't mean that the device that goes with it is around the corner. The Maemo 5 SDK was first released in Alpha on 2009-03-02 and in Beta on 2009-04-28.
Given what Nokia has done in the past:
Maemo 1 - N770 - November 2005
Maemo 2 - N770 - November 2006
Maemo 3 - N800 - January 2007
Maemo 4 - N810 - November 2007
Maemo 5 - N900 - November 2009
It would be logical to expect Maemo 6 on the N910 (?) no sooner than November 2010.
It doesn't matter if it's 12 months. You have bought OLD stuff for MUCH money if it's not upgradeable.
Or can you run Maemo 5 on N8x0 officially (it should not run by paper, it should run at a decent speed)? If I bought a N900 I don't know if it's supported next year when Maemo 6 comes out. And it looks like that.
This is the same way Nokia takes with Symbian. Even Feature Packs can't be upgraded. I'll never understand people buying iPhone and paying this high price if iPhone isn't upgradeable by software.
If N900 isn't upgrade you lost A LOT of money.
But it looks like in this forum you get much more money than I get... I'll stop here.
benny1967
2009-10-14, 06:20
So we know the Maemo6 device will have the same screen and OMAP3.
My prediction: the N900 will be able to run Maemo6 and the new device will be much like the N900 but with capacitive screen, and maybe more memory. Maybe without keyboard.
there should be a poll about it ("do you believe the N900 will run maemo6?"). :D
i personally think it most probably won't.
they know users want a statement about this. not saying anything when they should at least have an idea about it by now is telling.
if M6 supports multitouch, it's likely some operations will actually require multitouch. no N900.
i don't know about technical implementation details of DRM, but couldn't DRM require some sort of hardware support, too? even if it's only a nasty little ROM that's specific to M6-models.
oh how i missed these speculations... ;)
attila77
2009-10-14, 10:24
This is the same way Nokia takes with Symbian. Even Feature Packs can't be upgraded. I'll never understand people buying iPhone and paying this high price if iPhone isn't upgradeable by software.
If N900 isn't upgrade you lost A LOT of money.
How did you loose that money ? Will your N900 suddenly stop working ? Do you buy devices just for the OS level bling ? Is there something sinister that prevents backporting applications (in cases where hardware is not an issue) ? You even have announced official Qt support from 2010Q1 which also makes backporting easier.
Double Salamander
2009-10-14, 10:31
First I was a little disappointed when Apple released their specs for the new iPhone. I won't buy one for many reasons but since everybody is eager to build an iPhone killer it seems to be a good pointer for future development of smartphones. Then after some thoughts I was impressed because Apple decided to go with software and not to split their user base among many incompatible hardware.
I don't know if smartphones are already at the point where every new PC had to be MS-DOS compatible many years ago, i.e. hardware is just a part of investment and software becoming more and more valuable investment that is well worth to be protected.
It seems that Nokia still sees themselves mainly as hardware company. Otherwise they would at least tell something like we will do our best to ensure that future versions of software will run on as many smartphones as possible.
HangLoose
2009-10-14, 10:35
How did you loose that money ? Will your N900 suddenly stop working ? Do you buy devices just for the OS level bling ? Is there something sinister that prevents backporting applications (in cases where hardware is not an issue) ? You even have announced official Qt support from 2010Q1 which also makes backporting easier.
Nah, he buys gadgets that need to last FOREVER... No matter what the technology might brings us from the future
I guess this guy still walks around with some coins in his pocket JUST IN CASE he needs to make a phone call on-the-go...
I dont like this argument of "if i buy it now i wont get the much better thing that is right around there corner... say 1-2 years"... Maybe I should give a damn and I would have much much more money under my mattress...
The point is "why is Nokia making and advanced version of a device that has not yet been released?"
The point is "why is Nokia making and advanced version of a device that has not yet been released?"
Work like this is always done in parallel. There are multiple stages in projects like these. When implementation and testing is finishing on one project, if only then work would start on the next one it would be a ridiculous waste of time and available resources.
And well, if the next thing wouldn't always be better than the previous, there would be no point doing the next thing. Consumers need to jump in at the moment they think something is good enough for them.
"Everything you buy now will suck in 5 years", a cynical person might say.
Electronics lose their value all the time. The moment you open the shrinkwrap, it loses at least 20% off your purchase price..
If you're not buying it as a 'toy' to tinker with or for development platform, then you should only buy the device when you're 100% sure it'll deliver all the features and functions at the quality level of your expectation. Anything beyond that (future upgrades) should be considered as BONUS. Don't buy a product based on a promise that the vendor has made but not delivered yet.
Otherwise, you're undermining yourself.
Buying any electronic/high-tech devices based primarily on future expectations is incredibly stupid. If you do this all the time, then it IS indeed a sure way to lose a lot of money.
Either you buy the device based on the features available now or you don't buy it.
And if you start worrying about more advanced future models you will be unable to buy anything, because announced or not there will always be a better model.
The point is "why is Nokia making and advanced version of a device that has not yet been released?"
Because at a device and platform level the N900 and Maemo 5 are basically complete.
Because it's a good open source development practice to share your vision and highlight the main novelties in your roadmap that might affect developers working currently in your platform.
Because it takes a while to productize a new application framework in your platform, leave alone to get ready innovative and attractive hardware, all this with the quality standards we are setting for a Harmattan called to go global and mainstream.
For everything you buy that runs with electricity there is a more advanced version in the works. The strange and suspicious thing would be not to have it.
Announcing Maemo 6 highlights before starting Maemo 5 is being honest to developers and users. I posted more comments in a twin/duplicate thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32627
Enjoy Maemo 5!
But if Nokia says: this is the fourth step of a five step plan, why wouldnt you wait 'till the last, final and finished step? I think that is logically. Nokia is admitting that the Nokia N900 is not their really flagship, but the one-before-last-step. Multitouch and portrait mode look really attractive. Also, the great mass of people consider these as the option the N900 lacks most. So if the successor of the N900 comes out, it will be way more popular and there will be made more commercial apps for it, that attracts more customer, that attracts more developers and so on. So i think the next device will be much better. One year isn't that long.
andrewfblack
2009-10-14, 16:27
a lot of people keep saying they are waiting for Maemo6 but do people think once that device/os i released Nokia is going to stop work on Maemo devices there will always be the next device coming around the corner. If you keep waiting you will be waiting for ever.
cheetos316
2009-10-14, 16:28
So the N series will finally get multitouch... But with the capacitive touchscreen, that probably means bye-bye to the stylus, something I love on my N810. That, or they will find some way of producing a cheap capacitive stylus... I hope they will also include USB OTG in the next gen device.
But if Nokia says: this is the fourth step of a five step plan, why wouldnt you wait 'till the last, final and finished step? I think that is logically. Nokia is admitting that the Nokia N900 is not their really flagship, but the one-before-last-step. Multitouch and portrait mode look really attractive. Also, the great mass of people consider these as the option the N900 lacks most. So if the successor of the N900 comes out, it will be way more popular and there will be made more commercial apps for it, that attracts more customer, that attracts more developers and so on. So i think the next device will be much better. One year isn't that long.
If you prefer your current device to the N900, then there is no reason to change. If you prefer the N900 but you don't want to invest the money now and you are willing to wait a year, then wait.
But remember the N910 or N1000 that comes out in a year might be better for the mass market but it might not be what you want. Maybe Nokia will decide that keyboards are not needed but you really like them. Nobody (probably including the Nokia designers) knows what the next device will have. It may turn out that the N900 suits you better than the next device. In that case you will have waited a year for nothing.
Plus, in a year Nokia will be working on the next next device and OS. The market keeps moving and Nokia will need to keep up. You will have this same decision regardless of what computer product you are considering and regardless of when you are considering it. There is always something better in the pipeline.
Bottom line, if you like the N900 as it exists today and you can afford it, get it. If you don't, don't.
But if Nokia says: this is the fourth step of a five step plan, why wouldnt you wait 'till the last, final and finished step? I think that is logically. Nokia is admitting that the Nokia N900 is not their really flagship, but the one-before-last-step. Multitouch and portrait mode look really attractive. Also, the great mass of people consider these as the option the N900 lacks most. So if the successor of the N900 comes out, it will be way more popular and there will be made more commercial apps for it, that attracts more customer, that attracts more developers and so on. So i think the next device will be much better. One year isn't that long.
I think you missunderstood the 5 steps plan a bit. It's 5 steps to mass-market. Not 5 steps to the ultimate device that will never be topped again. Nokia is certainly not planning for stagnation once the Maemo6 device was released. It will just be the first Maemo device targetted for mass-market.
But if Nokia says: this is the fourth step of a five step plan, why wouldnt you wait 'till the last, final and finished step?
Despite what step they call it, the N900 seems to be the best mobile device you can get at this moment... So why wait for over an year if you need/want that kind of device NOW. You can be a happy user for the whole year and then upgrade if the new device proves to be considerably better...
I like it as it is now, I can maybe afford it, but multitouch and especially portrait mode (one hand usage) sound really attractive. Maybe it isn't capacitive at all, multitouch resistive screens do already exist (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSzO7DS48Bc) About my current device: it is a fridge. But I can live with it, I don't call very much (one time per three months?). That's why I want an internet tablet. And if it is disappointing me (no keyboard etc.) I have two options: buy a N900 much cheaper, or buy another phone that's also good... I know that mobile phones are developing really fast, and that after the N1000? many more technologies will come on the market, but I think you can choose the final stage of a technology than the fourth. After that new concept will come, but that doesn't bother me. The device doesn't get less well if something new comes out. Those new announced features look really good for me.
(sorry if my English is a bit crappy but I'm Dutch)
Suurorca
2009-10-14, 17:01
Buying any electronic/high-tech devices based primarily on future expectations is incredibly stupid. If you do this all the time, then it IS indeed a sure way to lose a lot of money.
Either you buy the device based on the features available now or you don't buy it.
And if you start worrying about more advanced future models you will be unable to buy anything, because announced or not there will always be a better model.
The way I view it, that just couldn't be more wrong.
In fact, when shopping for something that's literally going part of you for quite some time, I for one am ready to give up some existing features for longer device life. Upgradebility is a major factor with a device with 700 EUR price tag. I don't expect to use the thing for the next 5 years, but I sure would love to. :cool:
I suppose the coders at Nokia really just don't know what to do with Maemo 6 yet... Legacy support should imho be a political decision when you start the project, not something you wait and see how things turns out. :mad:
Jack6428
2009-10-14, 17:01
slha89, for crying out loud, give us a break dude. LOL.
i don't know about technical implementation details of DRM, but couldn't DRM require some sort of hardware support, too? even if it's only a nasty little ROM that's specific to M6-models.
AFAIK, it requires hardware too, if you want a good and hard to crack DRM solution. The software solutions in the market are easy to crack.
"Everything you buy now will suck in 5 years", a cynical person might say.
Make it < 2 years ;)
Make it < 2 years ;)
Not my N800 =p
In principle many more will join in the step 6 of 5. ;)
This only reflects the curve of Innovators - Early adopters - Early majority etc that JL Martinez NSeries VP was showing in the Summit on Friday morning. http://www.slideshare.net/peterschneider/nokia-nseries-and-maemo-6
iamNarada
2009-12-02, 22:20
Maemo 6 device in 2nd half of 2010. Maybe there are more juicy tidbits in the 55Mb worths of slides....
http://www.intomobile.com/2009/12/02/nokias-2010-goals-fix-the-symbian-ui-release-maemo-6-and-make-more-money.html
Will your N900 suddenly stop working
For me, a significant feature of the N900 is the exciting, thriving, open development community which comes with it.
When most other developers move on to another device, that aspect of the N900, which to me is one of it's most significant features, will indeed stop.
It'll be a gradual winding down rather than a sudden stop.
The interesting question for someone like me, then, is whether the moving on of collective interest from each device to the next generation will be faster than I can afford to keep up, or not.
They are very expensive devices. Most people who would like to cannot afford to buy a device like this every year, and even every two years is difficult. But on the other hand, because they are so expensive, other people may not move on particularly quickly either, which may cause the rate at which collective interest moves on to match mine or even stay behind it, after all.
attila77
2009-12-03, 22:10
Heyya, you quoted me out of context there. The point is it's not like your device is going to insta-brick itself the moment Maemo 6 appears (at which point you're not talking about compatibility but buyer's remorse). In fact, ever since the Summit we know Qt 4.6 is officially supported on Maemo 5/N900 and that gives a clear backporting path for applications. I still very much enjoy using my Diablo (warts and all) N810 for ebook reading, videos and it doubles as a Skype phone and runs my PyQt trinkets.
junak777
2010-02-08, 21:44
http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_tease_with_symbian_ui_improvements_coming_in _2010-news-1300.php
ArmandHammer
2010-02-09, 13:40
Even if the future device has multi touch it doesn't rule out the n900. They could still have the double tap to zoom implemented and the volume control zoom implemented.
I would be very disappointing if it doesn't come to the n900.
http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_tease_with_symbian_ui_improvements_coming_in _2010-news-1300.php
Wait, I don't really get this, will they merge Symbian and Maemo? Or will they rule out Symbian in favor for Maemo? Or what do they mean? I'm confused :confused:
iamNarada
2010-02-09, 15:40
Wait, I don't really get this, will they merge Symbian and Maemo? Or will they rule out Symbian in favor for Maemo? Or what do they mean? I'm confused :confused:
Supposedly, they're going to maintain both platforms, in parallel. Speculation has been that eventually, s40 will go away and s60 will take it's place, with Maemo becoming the OS of choice for their high end offerings, but I don't know that any of those speculations have been substantiated.
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