View Full Version : GTK library lifetime
mooninite
2009-12-11, 05:36
Will GTK still be around even if not "promoted" over QT on Maemo 6?
I've grown accustom to GTK and I do, in fact, use it for cross-platform programming. I've run a GTK app that was meant for Linux/Windows and compiled it and ran it on my N900 with no problem.
I could care less about Symbian/Symbian Signed. Then again I'm not a million dollar corporation that Nokia caters to, so I don't matter all too much to Nokia to begin with.
If GTK is not going to be maintained by Nokia, I guess I'll have to make it into Extras. If that's the case, it is a real shame Nokia is leaving GTK in the dust after spending so much time on it. Money talks in the end I suppose.
Qt and GTK are just going to switch places. So GTK will be community maintainted just like Qt is now. So GTK isn't going nowhere. At least that's the impression I got when they announced the change to Qt.
We are in discussions with the GTK+ and Hildon maintainers to see how to help addressing this community support.
Yes, Nokia has invested a lot of time (and money) pushing GTK+ and Hildon to provide the amazing UI of Maemo 5. The fact of having this corporate time and money invested in another toolkit might indeed cause some trouble to GTK+. Then again, if by having one stakeholder less GTK+ in Maemo is left "in the dust" then imho it means that either GTK+, Maemo or both have deeper problems.
I'm frankly optimistic, though.
mooninite
2009-12-11, 05:58
Then again, if by having one stakeholder less GTK+ in Maemo is left "in the dust" then imho it means that either GTK+, Maemo or both have deeper problems.
Sorry about that. I did not mean GTK the community I meant GTK on Maemo.
GTK the community will last a very long time. I was just concerned about the lifetime/support of GTK on Maemo.
I'd be sad to have it go as well. Simply because I prefer GTK apps over QT everywhere. I like how GTK does some things better than QT.
What would be nice is if there could be an intermediate UI library that everyone would use and then have the final user selectable UI on top... be it either GTK, QT or whatever else one might want. Probably harder to do than not. Atleast effciently.
If there is a strong GTK+ community and there is a strong Maemo community then there will be a strong GTK+ support in Maemo no matter what.
If you fear GTK+ in Maemo being left in the dust you are problably fearing in fact 1 or 2 communities growing some dust in the future. I don't think this is going to happen and this is why I'm optimistic about GTK+ community support in Maemo 6.
Me too like GTK+ over QT in much cases. For instance i use Gnome as my desktop as i like it more than KDE. I am not sure 100% but the GTK+ have a bigger user base.
My views might change in the future.. but right now if would not use a OS that uses mainly QT.
I'm a gnome & linux user and I prefer the gnome desktop to KDE.
However, after compiling the QT demos for my laptop and playing with the sample software - all I can say is wow!
QT 4.x seems to be miles ahead that GTK. There is a lot of "tech" in the QT library (native open gl support, webkit-based widgets) and feels much more coherent then GTK.
I think Nokia have made the right decision especially when the next firmware update (1.2) will include it.
(How much more space will the new firmware need now that QT is officially included?)
(How much more space will the new firmware need now that QT is officially included?)
Depends on whether you've already got Qt4.5 installed or not. If so, there should be little change (as that's now being removed), otherwise it'll be quite a chunk extra needed.
Depends on whether you've already got Qt4.5 installed or not. If so, there should be little change (as that's now being removed), otherwise it'll be quite a chunk extra needed.
************************************************** ******
The following was in Maemo news:
Some welcome news for all Qt on Maemo developers out there: Nokia intends to deploy the currently in Beta Qt 4.6 to all devices via software update — most probably already with the next major update PR1.2. Currently, Qt 4.6 (available from extras-devel) is completely optified and resides in /opt/qt4-maemo5. That will change with PR1.2, where it will move to the rootfs, replacing the community-supported Qt 4.5. What does this mean for Qt applications?
Qt 4.6 applications: If all goes well, nothing needs to be done. Deployed applications should pick up the libraries in /usr. You might need to edit your build scripts so they won’t look in /opt/qt4-maemo5/bin if you’re using qmake.
Qt 4.5 applications: This one is trickier. Qt 4.6 is neither API nor ABI compatible with Qt 4.5. This means that you’ll need at least a recompile, and probably also source code modifications if you’re doing anything Maemo5-specific. Qt 4.5 applications on device will stop working until there is a Qt 4.6-based update available.
So all you Qt 4.5 users out there, install libqt4-maemo5-dev in scratchbox and start porting. :)
mooninite
2010-02-15, 14:59
QT 4.x seems to be miles ahead that GTK. There is a lot of "tech" in the QT library (native open gl support, webkit-based widgets) and feels much more coherent then GTK.
That's your problem. You're a user.
There's tons of libraries that are glib driven that are more mature that provide the same functionality you see in Qt.
Qt is driven by Nokia. Glib/GTK is driven by the Red Hat, Novell, and the community. The fact you believe Qt is "better" is the effect of marketing.
one compelling reason to use gtk over qt (for me at least) is vala. much nicer language to develop in than c++.
one compelling reason to use gtk over qt (for me at least) is vala. much nicer language to develop in than c++.
Actually, being written in plain old "c", gtk allows you much greater freedom in choosing a language to create your own programs.
Will GTK still be around even if not "promoted" over QT on Maemo 6?
fwiw
http://meego.com/developers/meego-architecture
http://meego.com/sites/all/files/users/u6/MeeGo-Arch-FullSize.png
GTK and Clutter are also included for application compatibility.
Stskeeps
2010-02-17, 07:59
Isn't the problem rather "Will my Hildon apps still work"? If so, the question should rather be: Will Maemo GTK+ exist in MeeGo and Hildon - even if they're community supported.
Most Hildon apps won't work on pure GTK+ and Hildon on top (out of experience)
fwiw
http://meego.com/developers/meego-architecture
http://meego.com/sites/all/files/users/u6/MeeGo-Arch-FullSize.png
That to me looks like an after-thought though sadly. Someone spoted that people would like GTK and decided to tack it on. Or in case of Moblin speculating on how to get maemo apps to it.
What I'm wondering is, if gtk and glib will ever be updated from stoneage versions? Even the ones coming with the N900 are already old.
That's your problem. You're a user.
There's tons of libraries that are glib driven that are more mature that provide the same functionality you see in Qt.
Qt is driven by Nokia. Glib/GTK is driven by the Red Hat, Novell, and the community. The fact you believe Qt is "better" is the effect of marketing.
I'm also a developer (been programming for just over 20 years).
I just think the integration of varous components seem more coherent than GTK. I'm not saying anything is wrong with GTK and the gnome desktop proves that it is still very capable (and a gnome user myself).
Admittingly I do not have a much programming experience with QT but judging by my exposure to both libraries I think QT is easier to work with.
This is just my opinion based on actual source code usage and not the effect of marketing - you insult my intelligence by your statement.
You may not know this but QT is also used by a desktop environment called KDE. It is an open-source project that uses QT at it core and many members of the community have influenced the development of QT and KDE.
One of GTK's original goals was to offer a GPL equivalent to QT.
QT was a proprietory product by Trolltech and due to some licensing restrictions many members of the community were suspicious of it. QT was under a license which meant if your product was GPL then QT was free. If you developed a proprietory product then you had to buy a license.
Eventually Nokia bought Trolltech and QT (from ver 4.5?) is now under the LGPL.
That's your problem. You're a user.
I am also a developer - I try to understand both roles.
There's tons of libraries that are glib driven that are more mature that provide the same functionality you see in Qt.
That statement is meaninless. Windows is more mature than Linux.
Qt is driven by Nokia
You forgot to finish that sentence with "and the community"
The fact you believe Qt is "better" is the effect of marketing
That is plain wrong! I have studied source code and actually written some too.
As I work further with QT I might say "sh** I wish I stuck with GTK" then again I might not.
At the end of the day having both GTK and QT libraries for the Maemo/maemo/MeeGo platform can only be a good thing. It should hopefully attract more developers too.
I'm pretty sure GTK will still be a permanent library in Maemo/maemo/MeeGo and hoepfully the platform will keep evolving.
Like Hannah Montana would say "It's the best of both worlds!"
Isn't the problem rather "Will my Hildon apps still work"? If so, the question should rather be: Will Maemo GTK+ exist in MeeGo and Hildon - even if they're community supported.
Most Hildon apps won't work on pure GTK+ and Hildon on top (out of experience)
Good quewstion for the GTK+ and Hildon maintainers, most of them with a link to Maemo and/or Moblin anyway.
btw GTK+ and Clutter are in the MeeGo picture mainly because Moblin's maintainers will keep taking care of them.
One thing can be done now to help compatibility - provide Hildon alternatives/wrappers to the patched GTK+ versions (like tap_and_hold company) in one of the next updates. Keep them later in MeeGo. Inform the developers that the previous ones will be deprecated.
There. Easy.
One thing can be done now to help compatibility - provide Hildon alternatives/wrappers to the patched GTK+ versions (like tap_and_hold company) in one of the next updates. Keep them later in MeeGo. Inform the developers that the previous ones will be deprecated.
There. Easy.If I am correctly following what you are saying, we don't know if MeeGo will accept Hildon alternatives/wrappers so it may not be that easy. Is a fork just as easy, is it desireable?
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