View Full Version : Renaming "Maemo 6" to MeeGo / Harmattan
Architengi
2010-02-15, 22:32
Will it be a Maemo 6 or it will just be MeeGo?
Just to clarify this single question.
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P.S. Please be considerent with people time and do not merge this to some thread with hundreds of posts. There are many people that don't have time to go through hundreds of posts for a simple answer.
That One Guy
2010-02-15, 22:35
Nope. It wil be Windows 3.1.
How should we know? It's not like Nokia is flooding us with information, you know...?
We can speculate all day long, and that's all it will be. Speculation. Until either Nokia tells us what's up, or until they release the software... or, until some beta tester slips and says something s/he shouldn't have.
sachin007
2010-02-15, 22:38
Maemo 6 is MeeGo 1.0
And it will be released in september at the nokia world.
So what’s with Maemo6? Maemo6 will be MeeGo compatible.....consider Maemo6 already a MeeGo instance.
ari jaakis's blog
jaaksi.blogspot.com/
penguinbait
2010-02-15, 22:44
Some quotes from PCMAG website
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2359259,00.asp
"The first MeeGo release is expected in the second quarter of 2010, with new devices coming next year. "
"Oistano pointed to Nokia's N900, a Linux-based smartphone introduced last year, as an example of devices that would benefit from MeeGo."
"Nokia has not decided if Maemo 6 will still be branded as such, but in terms of experience, the transition should be seamless, Oistano said."
The first quote I put up would almost seem to disagree with the 3rd quote I put up/ If meego is coming out, what will it be running on? No new hardware is expected until next year?
From my guess, the n900 will be the first meego device?
Maemo 6 is no more. maemo is no more. hehe MaEmo is NO more. That means Ryan won't care what case I use anymore.
Yes, I read that, too. However I'm undecided whether I should trust the content of PCMag. How do I now they are reporting what was said, when they cannot even spell Kai's name correctly?
Architengi
2010-02-15, 22:52
Maemo 6 is no more. maemo is no more.
Rest in Peace Maemo.
RIP Maemo.
You were loved.
Architengi
2010-02-15, 23:16
Hope the Maemo will not go to the garbage bin> This is because of different reasons. One is MeeGo is based on Moblin Kernel. And Moblin is based on Fedora. They switched from Ubuntu last year. http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS2068665492.html
I understand Intel wanted QT development and ARM architecture support for their Moblin OS, but why Nokia is selling itself to Intel and what about the Maemo kernel, Debian and everything?
If it is a real OSes merge, why MeeGo is using Moblin kernel and the kernel is not a merge?
And what is Nokia getting from this? Do they want to produce phones or tablets with x86 architecture? That will produce more fragmentation. I still don't get what really Nokia is getting from this deal.
HumanPenguin
2010-02-15, 23:33
I saw someone post the statement taht Maemo6 is a instance of Meego.
That would make more sense. Given that any Moblin/Maemo merger is going to have to expand the hardware computability of both. It seems logical to develop a top level product called MeeGO that defines the API etc. then to have sub products built on that core.
MeeGo with a kernal and binaries built for OMAP is Maebo
MeeGo with a kernal and binaries built for Intel is Moblin
Whenever MeeGo updates the core libs etc Meabo and Moblin would autobuild downstream. As much as possible would be moved into the upstream source and developed there. With and Nokia or Intel propitiatory code needed to support dedicated hardware being added on the downstream builds.
A guess of course. But such a structure would allow for many more MeeGo instances to be created by LG Samsung HTC etc etc. And given that the only benefit of such a move is to open up the ability to develop cross platform it would make sense.
This way foss app developer would compile for their own platform. The source when wanted would be moved upstream and communities like this would optimise etc downstream if needed/wanted.
And for profit companies could create single source for the product and build their own autobuild and repository tree for distribution.
Fairly similar to how many closed source houses have had to work for PDAs etc in the past but more of a common structure.
This is what I would want to see anyway.
voltagex
2010-02-15, 23:34
I pick today as the day Maemo starts to go downhill. Oh well, I hold high hopes for Mer.
First the OpenMoko failed, now the Maemo tablets will fail - both caused not by technical problems, but by bad decision making.
Architengi
2010-02-15, 23:35
So what’s with Maemo6? Maemo6 will be MeeGo compatible.....consider Maemo6 already a MeeGo instance.
ari jaakis's blog
jaaksi.blogspot.com/
I saw that on a tweet, this is why I even asked this question.
Because what I understand from Maemo 6 will be a MeeGo instance is that Maemo 6 will still exist as a branch of MeeGo or as a customized MeeGo.
Nokia has thousands of lines of code that are not opened in Maemo, will be these opened and give to MeeGo or they will be kept as a branch of MeeGo.
In other words: Is Nokia keeping some of the investment of its development to keep an advantage over other Linux OSes which are closed, not open source (SAMSUNG's Bada, Palm's WebOS, Apple's iPhone OSX) or other Linux OSes partially opened (Google's Android, LiMo) or other closed OSes (RIM),
or is it giving to Intel and others even the code that was closed in Maemo?
I pick today as the day Maemo starts to go downhill. Oh well, I hold high hopes for Mer.
First the OpenMoko failed, now the Maemo tablets will fail - both caused not by technical problems, but by bad decision making.
I don't see it as a failure so much as I see it as a way to make Nokia's investment in Maemo relevant. Intel seems to have invested more in Moblin and several different OEMs are using it. This allows Nokia to leverage Maemo into an OS which can run on high end phones and focus their own efforts on the hardware. Not to mention expanding the market for third party developers.
Architengi
2010-02-16, 00:03
This allows Nokia to leverage Maemo into an OS which can run on high end phones and focus their own efforts on the hardware.
Maemo was already, as far as I know, for high end smart-phones. And why should Nokia focus on hardware, and not on software? Is Intel going to take over the OS development from now on?
This is a simple request to rename this forum but it's worth getting into more details to clarify things.
Harmattan is the name of the software program that comes after Fremantle / Maemo 5. In the Maemo Summit we already announced it as "Maemo 6" in order to bring a clear signal about the major update, change of toolkit, etc.
Now MeeGo (http://meego.com) comes to the picture. "Maemo 6" will not be used by Nokia as a brand since all the marketing effort around the software platform will be around MeeGo.
To be clear: this is not about "ditching" or "abandoning" any platform. The Harmattan program keeps working with the same plans than last week, no matter the name of the product they will deliver. Maemo 6 and Moblin 2.x merge and have a successor called MeeGo. Current Maemo people will look at it and will say "looks like his mother!". Current Mblin people will look at it and will say "looks like his father!" (or choose your preferred gender) ;) Of course you will see changes compared to Maemo 5, but these changes were coming anyway with Maemo 6.
What does this mean exactly for Harmattan7MeeGo? It means different things for different people:
- For end users nothing really changes, apart from a name most of them were not aware of anyway.
- For application developers not much changes. Harmattan's developer offering is based on Qt 4.6 + Qt Creator, Web Runtime + Aptana. Same for MeeGo and btw same for Symbian. Harmattan *might* have extended APIs unique to Nokia devices (e.g. Ovi APIs), but we'll see and this is part of the MeeGo flexibility anyway. Wait for the SDKs to be released and then we can discuss in more detail. There will be also the APIs available for those willing to use them, provided directly by other open source components in the platform (e.g. GStreamer). Developers will be of course free to use them, at the expense of loosing compatibility with Symbian, and with MeeGo... depends on the component and to be seen as soon as there is a detailed MeeGo architecture public. Then there will be the obvious difference in packaging (deb still for Harmattan, rpm for MeeGo) but this won't be the big issue and anyway compatibility with Symbian implies specific packaging as well.
- For those caring about the platform in depth, Harmattan =! MeeGo. If we would make Harmattan identical to MeeGo then we would need to postpone dates and, really not for a good reason. Not a reason for app developers (the API is there anyway) and not a good reason for end users, who could not care less about packaging and some obscure middleware components. This is the only reason making Ari Jaaksi refer to Harmattan as a "MeeGo instance" instead of just "MeeGo product".
This is why we are dropping the "Maemo 6" *brand* while keeping all the Harmattan development full speed and in the same direction that it was.
Now I can add more buzz words like MeeGo to my CV. Nice:)
vkv.raju
2010-02-16, 09:56
Thanks @qgil for taking time to clear certain things.
I believe this has been asked before and will be asked again.
Will there be an OFFICIAL MeeGo release for the N900 from Nokia?
useful reading to get the context: Nokia Software Strategy updated: http://www.nokia.com/NOKIA_COM_1/Technology/pdf/Nokia_software_strategy_white_paper.pdf
available at http://www.nokia.com/technology
jeremiah
2010-02-16, 10:14
Quim you forgot to address all the incumbent changes to the community. What happens to those who run Maemo branded forums? To those who are currently members of the Maemo council? What happens to those who work on the Maemo infrastructure and code base - there already exists a MeeGo code base and infrastructure.
Unfortunately, there will be many changes to the community, not all of them positive.
RenegadeFanboy
2010-02-16, 10:30
At least the branding question is clarified now :)
Following up Jeremiah's question: is Nokia committed to bring/support the community (with Talk and end-users included) for meego too?
ColdFusion
2010-02-16, 10:42
Current Maemo people will look at it and will say "looks like his mother!". Current Mblin people will look at it and will say "looks like his father!" (or choose your preferred gender) ;)
So... is it going to be Debian or Fedora based? :confused:
maxximuscool
2010-02-16, 10:44
so is this meant that there won't be any maemo6 device? and what would happen to n900's future? will meego be available to it?
maxximuscool
2010-02-16, 10:46
So... is it going to be Debian or Fedora based? :confused:
i think .rpm came from RedHat LINUX. may be red hat base? i am really confuse with this marketing scheme
ColdFusion
2010-02-16, 10:52
i think .rpm came from RedHat LINUX. may be red hat base? i am really confuse with this marketing scheme
Packaging system is not that important. It was several years ago...
But I'm asking about the base system.
From what I've seen and read since yesterday, whole MeeGo thing is mostly just about re-branding of similar Linux platforms into one (plus just a few technical differences, but tbh we are not switching from Linux to - say - Windows or MacOS here). However community might feel disappointed about ditching beloved Maemo brand, we can't forget one thing: Nokia is a commercial business designed to generate profit and find new ways of finding itself in current market situation (same applies to Intel, really), whether we all - community members - like it or not. These are business decisions made somewhere high over our heads and we have not much else left than just accept it (or not).
However, from what Quim is saying, I can see that despite ditching a brand, they certainly do not intend to ditch community, but invite us all to this new MeeGo platform, where we could all bring our values from Maemo. And I think this is great! I definitely can't think of any example of other company/plaftorm/etc. that would have similar approach to its users.
I am not trying to justify anyone or anything, in fact I was slightly disappointed at first too, but I'm just trying to think about both sides of the stick here, really. However, what I can certainly see here is Quim's great effort to make that re-branding as painless for community as possible, so many kudos for him.
ColdFusion
2010-02-16, 11:04
To answer my question from the MeeGo FAQ:
Is MeeGo based on another distribution (like Fedora or Debian)?
No. Meego is its own independent distribution, run as an open source project. In that sense you can consider MeeGo an upstream distribution, that itself pulls from the upstream of the various open source projects it is based on.
Quim you forgot to address all the incumbent changes to the community.
No, I didn't forget. :)
One thread for one topic and everybody will be able to follow and contribute much better to the topics that interest to them more. There is currently a lot of overlapping discussion happening in several places. The best way to move forward is to discuss every topic in the place and context that it corresponds.
This thread is about branding. "Maemo" brand won't be used beyond "Maemo 5" by Nokia. MeeGo is the new brand and "Harmattan" is the right denomination (as it already was) for the minority of people caring about the platform specifics.
Andre Klapper
2010-02-16, 11:08
So... is it going to be Debian or Fedora based? :confused:
Moblin is not Fedora based so this question does not make sense.
It will use RPM instead of .deb if that was your underlying question. See http://meego.com/about/faq
ColdFusion
2010-02-16, 11:29
Moblin is not Fedora based so this question does not make sense.
It will use RPM instead of .deb if that was your underlying question. See http://meego.com/about/faq
I know that it'll use rpm. Quim even said it here. He didn't say why the change is necessary, probably because Intel insists on the rpm's licence tag.
Moblin 2.0 is Fedora based. It was based on Ubuntu before that.
Maemo is Debian based.
So... what base standards will MeeGo use?
so meego.org instead of maemo.org? Makes sense, although the name and logo are just so bog-standard..
so meego.org instead of maemo.org? Makes sense, although the name and logo are just so bog-standard..
meego.com actually, as meego.org is already registered to someone in China.
Then there will be the obvious difference in packaging (deb still for Harmattan, rpm for MeeGo) but this won't be the big issue and anyway compatibility with Symbian implies specific packaging as well.
.
So the Nokia instance of MeeGo will be Debian-based, using dpkg and co; while Intel's instance is RPM-based?
The Harmattan program keeps working with the same plans than last week, no matter the name of the product they will deliver. Maemo 6 and Moblin 2.x merge and have a successor called MeeGo.
So "Maemo7"/MeeGo will basically be the first version of an OS deployed to a device? I thought part of this whole 5-step program was to prove the Maemo OS through a number of devices and enhancements until it would be ready for prime time.
This seems to quite the step back and I'm anticipating that MeeGo will once again be square one in a new X-Step program.
Don't you think people will eventually grow tired of Nokia's inability to actually complete this process and its rather apparent lack of consistent direction?
So "Maemo7"/MeeGo will basically be the first version of an OS deployed to a device? [...] Don't you think people will eventually grow tired of Nokia's inability to actually complete this process and its rather apparent lack of consistent direction?
I somewhat share the worry. However, it has to be said that Maemo and Moblin have come quite a long way already, the experience (and software) surely won't simply be discarded. Problems solved during the Maemo development cycle (hardware drivers, memory optimization, internal services, UI etc) will not need to be solved again from scratch. The basic OS will probably require very few changes (even though it will require repackaging).
If Nokia can deliver a top-class Harmattan device this year, nobody will care about previous strategy, roadmaps and "step X of Y".
Can someone just tell them to re-run the naming schemes with the focus group again?
Are they REALLY ABSOLUTELY SURE that they wanna go with MeeGo for a whole line of premium products...??
zehjotkah
2010-02-16, 14:29
So the Nokia instance of MeeGo will be Debian-based, using dpkg and co; while Intel's instance is RPM-based?
No, the first instance of MeeGo (MeeGo prerelease, if you want to call it like that) will be Harmattan (previously named maemo6). It will use deb packages. After that (maemo7) it will be using rpm.
So "Maemo7"/MeeGo will basically be the first version of an OS deployed to a device? I thought part of this whole 5-step program was to prove the Maemo OS through a number of devices and enhancements until it would be ready for prime time.
This seems to quite the step back and I'm anticipating that MeeGo will once again be square one in a new X-Step program.
Don't you think people will eventually grow tired of Nokia's inability to actually complete this process and its rather apparent lack of consistent direction?
The five step program have the aim to provide end-user-friendlyness at the fifth step (maemo6 or Harmattan or first instance of MeeGo). So Harmattan and MeeGo will provide this user-friendlyness.
A OS is NEVER finished and will be developed further and further (it would be bad if not^^).
So the Nokia instance of MeeGo will be Debian-based, using dpkg and co; while Intel's instance is RPM-based?
I suspect "MeeGo" devices coming out this year will:
- provide the same version of QT and (possibly) Web Runtime
- have some way of installing RPM packages (which does not mean using them for the underlying OS -- you can do this sort of thing in Linux with alien etc)
- share the brand name
That's all they really need right now from a commercial perspective.
From 2011, all MeeGo devices will probably share a lot more, but I wouldn't expect anything more than this in the short run. It would be fun to have GeoClue and a couple of other things, but I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't there initially.
ARJWright
2010-02-16, 14:31
Quim you forgot to address all the incumbent changes to the community. What happens to those who run Maemo branded forums? To those who are currently members of the Maemo council? What happens to those who work on the Maemo infrastructure and code base - there already exists a MeeGo code base and infrastructure.
Unfortunately, there will be many changes to the community, not all of them positive.
Wait...
Quim asked to change Maemo 6, not the entire Maemo community? Why should he address the whole community when only the latest variant is being asked to be changed - in branding?
The five step program have the aim to provide end-user-friendlyness at the fifth step (maemo6 or Harmattan or first instance of MeeGo). So Harmattan and MeeGo will provide this user-friendlyness.
A OS is NEVER finished and will be developed further and further (it would be bad if not^^).
I love your ability to make all these posts...and still they say absolutely nothing apart from re-iterating some tired old cliche.
I mean seriously, re-read this post from you - and the one about you "having a discussion" - there is absolutely no content in what you are posting.
Maybe I learnt this skill from you.
Can someone just tell them to re-run the naming schemes with the focus group again?
Are they REALLY ABSOLUTELY SURE that they wanna go with MeeGo for a whole line of premium products...??
I think it's a good name. I can see how you can twist it in to "me ego", but if you can disregard that I don't see a problem.
Sounds catchy, especially if you say it while imitating the hulk. meego store ;)
nwerneck
2010-02-16, 15:25
A OS is NEVER finished and will be developed further and further (it would be bad if not^^).
Yeah, the OS keeps being developed, but mostly without backward device compatibility.
I'm pretty sure Hamarttan will run only in some N910 "step five" device. And I doubt it that when Nokia release its first MeeGo device they will even think about trying to release an installer for this hypotetical N910.
I don't criticize this, I can see their reasons. It really should be up for a project like Mer to create a more versatile distro. But how are they/we going answer to this new change of direction?
And what about the developers-developers-developers? I do feel they are being offered a better environment to work with, but how much is this related to a whole distrubution or just to the availability of specific tools?...
You're being confusing. Your first post
is a simple request to rename this forum...
(btw, it's not so simple and is off the mark IMHO because you only talk about Maemo 6 while there is still a Maemo 4 and a Maemo 5 and other Maemo related issues discussed here)
And now you say
This thread is about branding. "Maemo" brand won't be used beyond "Maemo 5" by Nokia. MeeGo is the new brand and "Harmattan" is the right denomination (as it already was) for the minority of people caring about the platform specifics.
You're being confusing. We are aware that the brand will change. Branding is for commercial entities like Nokia and Intel, this community is not obligated to follow such branding.
You're being confusing. We are aware that the brand will change. Branding is for commercial entities like Nokia and Intel, this community is not obligated to follow such branding.
Well...I guess technically Nokia owns maemo.org both from a trademark AND site point of view (didn't they pay Reggie for ITT and now run and pay for this site?). So....Reggie will do what Nokia tells him to do and if that is renaming a forum he will do so.
The only confusing part here is why this Nokia-drone comes on here and is 'asking' to have the forum changed.
I think the last few days have shown that Nokia could care less about this community (especially its council) and they they do whatever they want to do.
So, why even asking?
Can someone just tell them to re-run the naming schemes with the focus group again?
Are they REALLY ABSOLUTELY SURE that they wanna go with MeeGo for a whole line of premium products...??
Quoted for effing truth.
What is gonna happen, is gonna happen, and we have very little saying on it, but I want get on record by saying that Maemo is an excellent name, while MeeGo, it is not. My Ego? iWent? Me Go? MeeGo is the iPad of Nokia/Intel.
Just to be absolutely clear, is the request to rename the "Maemo 6 / Harmattan" subforum on this site, or to rename the whole site? I read it as the former, which under the circumstances seems like it should be a minor and uncontentious change.
Wait...
Quim asked to change Maemo 6, not the entire Maemo community? Why should he address the whole community when only the latest variant is being asked to be changed - in branding?
Maemo 5 is called Maemo 5 in the same way that OS2008 is still OS2008. It's not a retroactive change.
Nokians started calling a release Maemo 6 and nokians are deprecating it (together with the use of any "Maemo" beyond Maemo 5). Maemo 6 is not in any product so it shouldn't be a big deal to stop using it to refer to Harmattan, or to confuse it with MeeGo.
Just to be absolutely clear, is the request to rename the "Maemo 6 / Harmattan" subforum on this site, or to rename the whole site? I read it as the former, which under the circumstances seems like it should be a minor and uncontentious change.That's reasonable. Let's assume he meant the subforum when he said forum. Agreed, not contentious. And could add a sticky linking to www.meego.com while we are at it.
The only confusing part here is why this Nokia-drone comes on here and is 'asking' to have the forum changed.
Because I don't have permissions to change it for "MeeGo / Harmattan" myself. :)
It's a trivial change, as opposed to discuss the destiny of the whole maemo.org or even the whole talk.maemo.org, which deserves an own thoughtful discjussion, or many.
(btw, it's not so simple and is off the mark IMHO because you only talk about Maemo 6 while there is still a Maemo 4 and a Maemo 5 and other Maemo related issues discussed here)
This (http://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=45) forum (not the entire talk.maemo.org) is titled "Maemo 6 / Harmattan". Quim is simply proposing that it is renamed to "MeeGo / Harmattan" to reflect recent developments.
Can someone do it already and get it over with?
RenegadeFanboy
2010-02-16, 16:05
I think the last few days have shown that Nokia could care less about this community (especially its council) and they they do whatever they want to do.
So, why even asking?
Because they do care?
Even if for the announcement and press part of things Nokia did take business priorities above community priorities - already one day later they are showing that 2nd priority does not mean no priority.
I for one like the fact that the vague "we will trust the communities to decide on the community stuff" statement one-by-one proves to be a practice. Long way to go, but why not be happy about the first steps, like asking the community kindly?
sjgadsby
2010-02-16, 16:05
Can someone do it already and get it over with?
Only Reggie can make the change.
Because I don't have permissions to change it for "MeeGo / Harmattan" myself. :)
It's a trivial change, as opposed to discuss the destiny of the whole maemo.org or even the whole talk.maemo.org, which deserves an own thoughtful discjussion, or many.
Well then, why make a post about it instead of just PMing Reggie telling him to change it?
I think the time to show any consideration to community members is past don't you think?
Well then, why make a post about it instead of just PMing Reggie telling him to change it?
Because people will scream bloody murder.
Because people will scream bloody murder.
And also - to 'ask for permission' for something as trivial as this will make some of the more dedicated fanboys cry out - "see!! they do care what we think!"
Rather clever really.
Because they do care?
Even if for the announcement and press part of things Nokia did take business priorities above community priorities - already one day later they are showing that 2nd priority does not mean no priority.
I for one like the fact that the vague "we will trust the communities to decide on the community stuff" statement one-by-one proves to be a practice. Long way to go, but why not be happy about the first steps, like asking the community kindly?
Spot on. As I said earlier in this thread - at the end of the day, Nokia (and Intel) are businesses and have completely different priorities than community gathered around that business. What is worth pointing out tough, is that they are actually do reach out back to the community and ask their opinion on the matter. That's at least what I see between the lines on Quim's various posts since yesterday.
IMVHO, people generally don't like drastic changes. However, as time flies by, we will all get used to that new MeeGo thing and quickly adjust to the new "reality". Think Facebook and their main layout changes every so often - there is a pattern I've observed myself: each time something changes in FB's layout, about 95% of people complain saying "previous was better". Time passes by, FB changes its layout again and... people complain that "previous was better". I am pretty certain we will see similar pattern with Maemo -> MeeGo, although I hope MeeGo is going to be definite branding change in this case. ;)
What is worth pointing out tough, is that they are actually do reach out back to the community and ask their opinion on the matter. That's at least what I see between the lines on Quim's various posts since yesterday.
Lol, I rest my case.
Bye :)
Milhouse
2010-02-16, 16:24
this Nokia-drone
That's Mr. Gil to you. :)
This (http://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=45) forum (not the entire talk.maemo.org) is titled "Maemo 6 / Harmattan". Quim is simply proposing that it is renamed to "MeeGo / Harmattan" to reflect recent developments.Yes, good that proposal is clarified quickly.
Can someone do it already and get it over with? Oh, how many times have I said that about parts of the website... (the community page still has developers' mailing list recent posts on it).
Lol, I rest my case.
Bye :)
Everyone obviously could have his/hers own opinion and I respect that. ;P
Spot on. As I said earlier in this thread - at the end of the day, Nokia (and Intel) are businesses and have completely different priorities than community gathered around that business.
That may be true in this case, but it's not generally the case. There are plenty of businesses involved in free software because they are part of the community and their interests align with the community's interests.
There was confusion about "Maemo 6" and I explained the deal with "Maemo 6", picking the concrete example of renaming this SUB-forum.
If there is something wrong with this please let me know how to improve.
christexaport
2010-02-16, 17:49
qgil, you're such a pro. I'm not paid to communicate, so let me freestyle on these fools...
"Wipe away ya' crybaby tears
and mute ya' whines.
Lucky anybody asked
what's on ya' pea sized minds.
The name's been switched, so accept it,
'stead of tryin'a horde, rally 'round, protest, or protect it.
A rose by any other name
still smells good, you whaambulance drivers scared of change.
'Cause its not about MeeGo, its about people
in the community staying tight like a Speedo.
Is it .deb, .rpm? Who cares?
It'll be the same OS, so whats the use in splitting hairs?
Let it go and move on,
and years from now, play this back on your Meggo device and get your groove on!"
Now I wasted enough time on that short rhyme in hopes everyone else stops wasting it on trivial matters. This is monkey business. We just went through the Maemo-Freak redesign, etc., and now they've changed to MeeGo, and some turd has squatted on MeeGo-Freak.com, but am I whining? Nope. My mission is the same, which is to simplify the experience for users, expand adoption and development, and steer the direction of the OS to meet the widest needs.
Meego is Maemo6. So is Moblin. How can we give input on the two UIs? How can we make better apps and create new use models? How can we get more ARM ODMs and OEMs behind MeeGo? Will Nokia use it in the next Booklet? Will there be ways to sync a mobile and desktop style MeeGo device? THIS is the important stuff.
We all have ideas, but Intel and Nokia have great sales and marketing records, so trust them and watch the magic. Outside of WP7, MeeGo was the talk of MWC yesterday. WE HAVE THE SPOTLIGHT NOW!! Enjoy it while you can, because Symbian is coming, WP7 has awakened, and believe me, its on.
Crashdamage
2010-02-16, 18:01
LOL! Good one! But..'tight like a Speedo'? What dark corner of your mind did that pop out of? Never mind - I don't really wanna know...
silvermountain
2010-02-16, 18:11
Meego is Maemo6. So is Moblin. How can we give input on the two UIs? How can we make better apps and create new use models?
I thought Maemo6 was still going to be the same Maemo version (Harmattan) that has been worked on - and that it wasn't going to be until the OS AFTER Maemo6 where we would see MeeGo.
Where did you learn that Meego is Maemo6 (and Moblin)?
christexaport
2010-02-16, 18:13
Well, MeeGo will be fully open, so we should be able to port it if Nokia doesn't. I don't see why not.
And the speedo reference, my mind is pretty messed up. I'm shocked you didn't know. I'm a certified nut, though I'd never wear a Speedo because I want children, not boyfriends.
silvermountain
2010-02-16, 18:17
Well, MeeGo will be fully open, so we should be able to port it if Nokia doesn't. I don't see why not.
I understand the concept of porting - which is something that also may or may not happen - what I asked was how you had learnt that Maemo6/Harmattan (a planned OS) was going to be MeeGo (and Mobile).
christexaport
2010-02-16, 18:34
I understand the concept of porting - which is something that also may or may not happen - what I asked was how you had learnt that Maemo6/Harmattan (a planned OS) was going to be MeeGo (and Mobile).
Supposedly, the Linux Foundation will assist with driver support, I believe I read, so making builds for older devices shouldn't be too hard, though above my expertise.
As for Maemo6 bing Meego, just common sense. They said MeeGo devices will emerge THIS YEAR! And the combining is mainly about adding the Qt frameworks and UI toolkits to Moblin, sharing the development of the core stuff like Gstreamer and GTK+, and making the two UIs similar enough to be familiar when moving from a netbook/desktop UI version to a mobile version.
Maemo6 will be the basis for MeeGo going forward, along with some of the app frameworks from Moblin and a desktop style UI for non touch or netbook MeeGo builds. Ari Jakksi said Maemo6 is a MeeGo instance...
christexaport
2010-02-16, 18:40
There will be a handheld UI and a UI for less portable builds, and option to add other UIs for future device paradigms.
http://www.linuxfordevices.com/images/stories/meego_arch.jpg
Chris, imho you're sort of out of your depth here... equating debs with rpms... meego, maemo 6 with moblins... and assuming driver supports to come from LF.
(and no one here wears Speedo.)
how you had learnt that Maemo6/Harmattan (a planned OS) was going to be MeeGo (and Mobile).
Have you read my first post in this thread?
silvermountain
2010-02-16, 18:48
Have you read my first post in this thread?
I did and;
a) the way I read it is that Maemo6 is not = MeeGo hence why I asked Chris where he had received information that was in contradiction to that, and
b) you need to work on writing shorter posts.
b) you need to work on writing shorter posts.
Which sentence did he lose you at?
silvermountain
2010-02-16, 18:55
Which sentence did he lose you at?
Somewhere around "This is a simple request to rename this forum.." - at that point I didn't find it credible that a Nokia employee would ask permission for that.
:)
Somewhere around "This is a simple request to rename this forum.." - at that point I didn't find it credible that a Nokia employee would ask permission for that.
:)
Do you think it was permission, or acceptance?
Think hard, now.
silvermountain
2010-02-16, 19:00
Do you think it was permission, or acceptance?
Think hard, now.
Honestly: Neither.
Regardless, I would not like the idea of anyone representing Nokia Corp coming in and wantonly changing structure at the .org, anyway (which Quim would not do).
EDIT: text clarified
FYI, forum has been renamed. This thread has been sticky-ed as well. Thanks.
silvermountain
2010-02-16, 19:04
Regardless, I don't like the idea of anyone representing Nokia Corp coming in and wantonly changing structure at the .org, anyway.
Well, they do own the site right?
Well, they do own the site right?
diplomacy > ownership.
silvermountain
2010-02-16, 19:12
diplomacy > ownership.
And I guess he did come here and "asked". :D
I think I'll go and read some Aldous Huxley.
christexaport
2010-02-16, 19:19
Chris, imho you're sort of out of your depth here... equating debs with rpms... meego, maemo 6 with moblins... and assuming driver supports to come from LF.
(and no one here wears Speedo.)
Sorry you think so, but I have been reading and listening since 3. No special "depth" needed to research, engage, or read.
I respect YOUR "depth", however, since you know a bit more about Maemo, so why not point out where I may be steering in t wrong direction. All I've said has been iterated by Nokia, Intel, Linux, and experts I assume are equipped with snorkels far better than each of us. My terminology may be off, but my concept of the situation is spot on, according to people close to this thing.
What can you add or clarify on what I've said?
And I guess he did come here and "asked". :D
I think I'll go and read some Aldous Huxley.
Based on that allusion I think you have Quim confused with someone else.
benny1967
2010-02-16, 19:23
"Maemo 6" will not be used by Nokia as a brand since all the marketing effort around the software platform will be around MeeGo.
[...]
- For those caring about the platform in depth, Harmattan =! MeeGo.
I'm slightly confused about this. Dropping the Maemo name for Harmattan is a reasonable thing to do now, but if it's not MeeGo (technically)... should it be called MeeGo? Will it? :confused:
FYI, forum has been renamed. This thread has been sticky-ed as well. Thanks.
In the words of Darth Vader...
"This will be a day long remembered. It has seen the end of Kenobi, it will soon see the end of the Rebellion."
:p:p
...There will be also the APIs available for those willing to use them, provided directly by other open source components in the platform (e.g. GStreamer). Developers will be of course free to use them, at the expense of losing compatibility ... with MeeGo...
Well, that's not a great example, since Moblin uses GStreamer too... Actually, can you name any components that are significantly different between the two systems? I don't mean things that one platform has but the other is missing, I mean different components that do the same thing in the two systems? I'm thinking of the things you refer to as "some obscure middleware components" later in your post.
Then there will be the obvious difference in packaging (deb still for Harmattan, rpm for MeeGo) but this won't be the big issue and anyway compatibility with Symbian implies specific packaging as well.
Great news! More time for Maemo developers to adjust.
For those caring about the platform in depth, Harmattan =! MeeGo. If we would make Harmattan identical to MeeGo then we would need to postpone dates and, really not for a good reason...
...This is why we are dropping the "Maemo 6" *brand* while keeping all the Harmattan development full speed and in the same direction that it was.
Another bit of great news! Just because something is "really not for a good reason" doesn't mean a lot of companies will do it anyway, for political reasons.
I'm sure the Maemo developers are happy about that too.
Although I'm very curious.... What's going to happen to "Maemo Devices" inside Nokia? Is it just changing names to "MeeGo Devices" or is it being completely restructured?
christexaport
2010-02-16, 19:40
why is this so hard to understand?! Maemo6 as a brand name is replaced by MeeGo! Harmattan is the internal name for the first instance of MeeGo for handhelds. Maemo6 was just a label, and though a movement, not a religion.
Now wonder how much influence Meego will have on Symbian?
slartibart
2010-02-16, 19:51
why is this so hard to understand?! Maemo6 as a brand name is replaced by MeeGo! Harmattan is the internal name for the first instance of MeeGo for handhelds. Maemo6 was just a label, and though a movement, not a religion.
Now wonder how much influence Meego will have on Symbian?
Sorry I think you're out of your depth here.
why is this so hard to understand?! Maemo6 as a brand name is replaced by MeeGo! Harmattan is the internal name for the first instance of MeeGo for handhelds. Maemo6 was just a label, and though a movement, not a religion.
I think you're missing the point rather. There's more to what Maemo is/was than just the brand name, there's substance too. From what we've been told so far it appears that Harmattan will be exactly the same thing that it would have been it were still going to be called Maemo 6, but it will acquire the MeeGo branding anyway. The version after that will be the first to include the changes to the substance, and will arguably be the first real MeeGo (or at least, Nokia's first MeeGo).
attila77
2010-02-16, 20:23
why is this so hard to understand?! Maemo6 as a brand name is replaced by MeeGo! Harmattan is the internal name for the first instance of MeeGo for handhelds. Maemo6 was just a label, and though a movement, not a religion.
The thing is we don't know just how MeeGo Maemo 6 is (waiting anxiously for the Harmattan SDK :) ). It's not *really* Meego, as we already know few marked differences from Maemo 6. M6 is just close to it, and renamed to harness the buzz. Not necessarily bad, but with considerable potential to cause confusion (hence the need to know exactly in what ways it IS meego and in what ways it isn't).
We allready have report of first "MeeGo" device from LG. Link (http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/16/lg-gw990-to-be-among-first-meego-phones/) That one looks like Moblin. Now Nokia is essentially saying that Maemo 6 will be rebranded as MeeGo.
In other words there's a great opportunity for consumer confusion here, if both Moblin 2 and Maemo 6 are marketed/branded as MeeGo, before we have truly unifield MeeGo platform.
dantonic
2010-02-16, 21:32
But the name "Maemo" is sooo much cooler than "MeeGo"!!!
:(
P.S. Please be considerent with people time and do not merge this to some thread with hundreds of posts. There are many people that don't have time to go through hundreds of posts for a simple answer.
Merging this thread with another thread that discusses exactly the same topic. :)
Posts discussing MeeGo in the N900 have been moved to the thread they belong to: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44615
Please stay on topic. Thanks!
russo_br
2010-02-17, 12:56
I wonder if Meego strategy was being worked on for a while, based on a well defined roadmap, or it was that kind of top-down decision that even the Maemo Team on Nokia just got to adapt overnight...
Decisions without planning are nothing new within large companies... I hope that's not the case, but there is no way to know for sure by now.
I wonder if Meego strategy was being worked on for a while, based on a well defined roadmap, or it was that kind of top-down decision that even the Maemo Team on Nokia just got to adapt overnight...
Decisions without planning are nothing new within large companies... I hope that's not the case, but there is no way to know for sure by now.
You can find the relevant joint press release from last June, but here's an excerpt from BGR. It should answer your question.
Nokia and Intel announced a collaborative effort today that will empower the next generation of mobile devices — according to Nokia and Intel at least. Each company will brings its respective expertise to the table in an effort to develop devices that will combine Intel’s low-power mobile chipset architecture with Nokia’s wireless broadband connectivity technologies. The collaboration will focus on and accelerate development in several open source mobile Linux software projects, including Moblin and Maemo.
russo_br
2010-02-17, 14:02
You can find the relevant joint press release from last June, but here's an excerpt from BGR. It should answer your question.
Thanks, I wasn't aware of that PR from last year. It seems then that Harmattan was designed from the begining based on Meego architecture. That would explain why a lot of bug & improvement requests for Maemo 5 were pushed to Harmattan.
Neon Samurai
2010-02-17, 14:45
RPM based? For the love of Baud why? apt-get/aptitude and deb packages is so much cleaner. I spent years fighting with rpm based Red Hat and Mandriva. Please, don't make me go back to that hell.
Dropping the Debian parent distribution is bad enough but going to rpm packaging? Boooo...
I've been watching N900 prices since it finally hit store shelves but this latest news is seriously shattering my desire to drop 500+ on an N810 replacement. It smells too much like continuing to buy Palm devices beyond the T5 while the parent company runs the hardware and OS into the ground.
Will the N900 continue to get platform updates after Maemo5 or am I going to be buying a device just as third party development abandons the platform? (eg. no Maemo4 app updates now that Maemo5 is in full swing)
And what are the alternatives, a mobile platform that criminalize the device owner just by making it usable, a mobile platform that delivers a creepy harvesting of personal information, Windows7 phone edition.. I'm having serious flashbacks to Palm's abandoning software development then delivering a string of crap treo hardware rather than evolving the T5 hardware.
(Now I'll get down off my soap box and go find the applicable thread for OS and hardware specific platform.)
For now, I'll wait, and watch.. and see if the N900 reaches a reasonable price point while retaining a platform development path. Here's hoping Nokia doesn't Newton there tablet devices (The other PDA options out there suck right now).
Just thought I should post in this thread so I can later claim to be a MeeGo "Expert" and maybe start a blog or suttin'.
Where do we line up for them blogger appreciation devices?
***
BTW, long live this partnership I hope to see Nokia/Meego embedded in my furniture and appliances in 2020. :)
Can we also now close all the Maemo 6 on the N900 threads?
***
Also, why the hell didn't "our man in the know", Eldar post about this months ago?
Because Eldar didn't, I suspect some will think this is not real. :rolleyes:
;)
johnkzin
2010-02-17, 23:56
Also, why the hell didn't "our man in the know", Eldar post about this months ago?
Because Eldar didn't, I suspect some will think this is not real. :rolleyes:
;)
Heh. Eldar seems to know about hardware stuff. Maybe he has less/little/no visibility into software stuff.
And... I'll trust the credibility of Quim over Eldar (when it comes to Nokia Maemo/Meego products) any day.
Can someone just tell them to re-run the naming schemes with the focus group again?
Are they REALLY ABSOLUTELY SURE that they wanna go with MeeGo for a whole line of premium products...??
MeeGoing to pass on a product that subliminally makes mewant to eat at mcdonalds and mebuy new clothes to fit meimage better.
Sigh.
And while that particular frivolous Moochism is superficial, the switch from apt to RPM... uh, ok.
I sometimes wonder if there's some sick sociological study behind the facade of this 5-step Maemo project to see how many directions people can be pointlessly wrenched before they yield, and how that yielding manifests itself.
Can we all stick on the branding topic here? If you have other topics in mind please contribute to the several ongoing threads or create a new one.
There is enough volume of discussion and mixing/overlapping threads won't help. Thanks!
johnkzin
2010-02-18, 05:18
MeeGoing to pass on a product that subliminally makes mewant to eat at mcdonalds and mebuy new clothes to fit meimage better.
O_o
Do they have MeDonalds here you live, or McDonalds?
Because if it's the latter, your statement is a huge stretch. If it's the former, then you should move.
O_o
Do they have MeDonalds here you live, or McDonalds?
Because if it's the latter, your statement is a huge stretch. If it's the former, then you should move.
Maybe the theme of the post wasn't as clear as i thought. Here's a good place to start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McWords
To look on the bright side, separating the smartphone industry into iStuff and meStuff would really simplify things for people who like to draw battle lines and fight protracted verbal wars.
Great video about it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXK9XFolwTM
attila77
2010-02-18, 11:19
Can we all stick on the branding topic here? If you have other topics in mind please contribute to the several ongoing threads or create a new one.
My biggest gripe branding-wise (apart from the name choice itself :) ) is that Maemo 6 and MeeGo are not interchangeable. MeeGo (from what we've been hinted) is a much broader thing, more of a family of interwoven platforms and technologies than a particular implemented set (like Maemo 6). I even find it hard to explain why Fremantle (having official Qt4.6 support) is not Meego in the same way Harmattan is.
Milhouse
2010-02-18, 11:52
So... as MeeGo is RPM based, yet Harmattan/Maemo6 Qt-based apps can be installed on Maemo5 surely this means one of two things:
1) Nokia expect developers to package their apps twice, once as an RPM for M6 and again as a DEB for M5
or
2) Harmattan/Maemo6 is a purely DEB based OS with very little to do with MeeGo and it's RPM packaging system
Option 1) is simply an unreasonable expectation from Nokia of developers - it would be better for Nokia to ship an RPM based M6/MeeGo for N900 than expect developers to do double the work, this is the quickest way to make developers drop N900/M5 support.
Option 2) makes sense as Harmattan should be pretty well advanced, and means Harmattan/Maemo6 has nothing technically to do with MeeGo, although might be branded as such for the initial release, with a later release switching to RPM.
Assuming Option 2 is on the money, Maemo6 is MeeGo in name only... in which case yes, Fremantle/Maemo5 could be called MeeGo too! But that would be even more confusing, and highlight the fact it's a branding exercise only at this point rather than any major technical improvement/change.
@ Milhouse
If I understood it correctly, Maemo 6/Harmattan is purely DEB based and has little to do with MeeGo's RPM packaging system, but quite a lot to do with the overall architecture.
attila77, Milhouse, you are serious guys and you will understand this quickly: Harmattan and MeeGo come with a whole Qt based application and UI framework and a Qt style API. Maemo 5 is a different story, with a GTK+ based applications and UI framework and GNOME style API.
This is what makes Harmattan quite close to MeeGo in platform terms, while Maemo 5 is really something different. That said you can reach very similar APIs with Maemo 5, and you can also add more libraries to Maemo 5 in order to fine tune the compatibility. You can also do so with Symbian, yet you don't have problems seeing that it's pointless to call Symbian MeeGo.
We can discuss this in more details once we have a MeeGo and a Harmattan list of components to compare.
PS: about the packaging... we are talking here about API compatibility.
Maemo6 is MeeGo in name only...
I'm pretty sure that is the case...
in which case yes, Fremantle/Maemo5 could be called MeeGo too!
... but I don't think that necessarily follows. Windows XP is a renamed version of Windows NT 5.1 underneath, but that doesn't mean older versions of Windows NT should be renamed Windows XP. It's just branding.
It seems to me that Nokia want to associate their next device with MeeGo, even if it's really running Maemo 6, in order to get on board the MeeGo bandwagon. I wonder if that means that the next device will be upgradeable to "proper" MeeGo later? If it isn't, then Nokia would have even more explaining to do to the masses - "yes, we called it MeeGo but I'm sorry you can't really run that MeeGo app you bought".
Milhouse
2010-02-18, 12:33
If I understood it correctly, Maemo 6/Harmattan is purely DEB based and has little to do with MeeGo's RPM packaging system, but quite a lot to do with the overall architecture.
Of course, as Maemo and Moblin are both Linux based they'll already share the vast majority of their architecture already, so merging Maemo and Moblin to produce MeeGo is a case of choosing which bits to keep and which bits to drop (ok, huge simplification!) and then moving forwards with the new combined Linux distribution.
But fundamentally...
A "MeeGo" OS that is DEB based is Maemo.
A "MeeGo" OS that is RPM based is definitely not Maemo.
The next major release of Maemo (aka MeeGo) may well include some new features or functionality that derive from Moblin/MeeGo but ultimately it the next release has to be DEB based otherwise N900 owners will see much reduced app support as it's not reasonable to expect developers to support DEB and RPM packaging.
What happens once a version of MeeGo appears with RPM only support is then anyone's guess - presumably the next device (ie. first MeeGo device) will be upgradeable from Maemo6/DEB to a version of MeeGo with RPM support.
Obviously the N900/M5/DEB will eventually be out in the cold, unless the community can come up with a port of MeeGo/RPM which may be more likely due to the reduced level of closed components in MeeGo.
The best option all round would be to move as quickly from DEB to RPM and try to avoid a situation where both packaging systems need to be supported concurrently by developers.
Milhouse
2010-02-18, 12:41
PS: about the packaging... we are talking here about API compatibility.
Right, and it's great that there can and will be API compatability between M5 and M6 and MeeGo and even Symbian... but if M5 uses one package manager while MeeGo uses another (and Symbian a third) Nokia are expecting MeeGo developers to package their application three times for distribution.
This is an overhead they can do without, and I'm sure many will come to the conclusion that it's not worth the effort of supporting the M5/DEB system so support for the N900 will rapidly dwindle despite it remaining API compatible with the latest MeeGo devices.
I'm not that bothered about which package manager is used, I've got no allegiance to either, it's just that switching from DEB to RPM will have repercussions eventually unless the N900/M5 can somehow be updated with RPM support in which case this all becomes a moot point.
attila77
2010-02-18, 12:41
attila77, Milhouse, you are serious guys and you will understand this quickly: Harmattan and MeeGo come with a whole Qt based application and UI framework and a Qt style API. Maemo 5 is a different story, with a GTK+ based applications and UI framework and GNOME style API.
You're misunderstanding me - technically, I understand why one would label Harmattan MeeGo (despite the deb/rpm issue, potential API differences, etc). I was referring to the branding confusion which is replacing one brand with another that is of a much broader scope.
EDIT: Let me give an example. Take Ubuntu. Ubuntu is a brand, but left a room for subbranding to avoid confusion - KUbuntu, XUbuntu, Edubuntu, Ubuntu Network Remix are all Ubuntu, but with clear and known 'local' differences. Where's this in MeeGo ? The netbook UX MeeGo is MeeGo. The handheld UX MeeGo (i.e. Harmattan) is MeeGo, the deb based MeeGo is MeeGo, the rpm based MeeGo is MeeGo... I hope it's more clear what I find lacking in this nomenclature :)
ColdFusion
2010-02-18, 12:47
I'm not that bothered about which package manager is used, I've got no allegiance to either, it's just that switching from DEB to RPM will have repercussions eventually unless the N900/M5 can somehow be updated with RPM support in which case this all becomes a moot point.
Exactly! If only Nokia would've said that n900 will be upgradable to MeeGo, all these discussions would be over in an instant. :)
Milhouse
2010-02-18, 12:56
Exactly! If only Nokia would've said that n900 will be upgradable to MeeGo, all these discussions would be over in an instant. :)
Whether it's full MeeGo or not on N900, the biggest issue now (in my mind) is the complete change of package management system.
If MeeGo had never happened and the N900 stayed on M5 but remained API and package manager compatible with future Maemo releases, it wouldn't be so bad - the N900 would continue to get most apps, and developers would only need to support one DEB package management system (or two, including Symbian).
Now with MeeGo, apps will be distributed as RPMs. Not all apps will be developed for Nokia devices as developers may be targeting x86 netbooks running MeeGo, but their apps could be packaged for ARM/MeeGo as an RPM, and they might do it as it's largely a no brainer (in theory) and massively increases their market for next to nothing.
But continued DEB support, particularly from developers not principally targeting Nokia devices? Forget it, it's a dead market so best to let it die than keep it on life support.
RPM support for the N900 is essential, one way or another.
ARJWright
2010-02-18, 14:24
Pardon the noob knowledge/understanding on packaging, but isn't the fact of whether the Qt APIs are packaged with DEB or RPM determined by the IDE used? And isn't all dev being funneled through Qt Creator? So why would the packaging be a problem - except for those that like to "package by hand" (which is what I'm guessing happens more often than not because the tool(s) aren't up to snuff)?
Milhouse
2010-02-18, 14:35
Pardon the noob knowledge/understanding on packaging, but isn't the fact of whether the Qt APIs are packaged with DEB or RPM determined by the IDE used? And isn't all dev being funneled through Qt Creator? So why would the packaging be a problem - except for those that like to "package by hand" (which is what I'm guessing happens more often than not because the tool(s) aren't up to snuff)?
Another package format means more deployment testing. It increases the chance of an application c0cking up a device or the application failing to install. This means more work and puts more responsibility on the developer - easiest solution is not to support DEB.
DEB then becomes a legacy packaging format that everyone will want to forget as soon as possible. Developers that only have access to a new MeeGo device and with no access to an N900 won't create DEBs, just RPMs. N900 development declines.
Maemo5 can be 100% compatible with MeeGo at the Qt API level, but while it uses an incompatible package manager I think the number of MeeGo apps that are made available for Maemo5 will be much lower than might be otherwise be expected.
I'm not suggesting that DEB should be continued as I fully accept RPM is now the future, just that for the N900 to remain relevant it would be better if it could somehow acquire RPM support (how that happens I have no idea - the obvious solution would be to port RPM-based MeeGo to the N900, though there may be other options).
toto29820
2010-02-18, 15:37
Great video about it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXK9XFolwTM
thanks for the video.
so:
portrait mode is coming
maemo 6 wont be canceled and is coming too
I doubt nokia will make another maemo device they may move onto meego ones. so maemo 6 is made dedicate for n900. nice.
jeremiah
2010-02-21, 19:17
The only confusing part here is why this Nokia-drone comes on here and is 'asking' to have the forum changed.
Please do not refer to Quim as a Nokia drone. He is flesh and blood and a friend of mine. We may disagree with him but we owe him the same respect he shows us.
excelar8
2010-03-02, 22:01
This is a long thread and some of it is a bit too technical for me, even though I am an engineer and could probably try to figure out what N900 owners can expect. However, i will say this:
If Nokia decides to abandon Maemo as an OS open source project and go head first into MeeGo with no Maemo 5 compatibility or feasible upgrade, simply put I am never going back to Nokia and I have been a very loyal customer in the past.
They marketed the N900 as a powerhouse mobile computer with infinite possibilities because of Maemo's open source, but if they are ignorant and discourage developers from making new applications and are now only compatable with Maemo6/MeeGo, they have basically fooled us all into buying an N900 as we would be the only ones with Maemo 5 and this community will shrink over a short period of time while all we can do is watch as other OS' blossom.
I understand that I haven't looked into recent news or go in depth into the technical compatibility possibilities, but regardless, at the end of the day, it comes down to whether Nokia makes a dick move based their newer more economical-potential agenda, or a move that tells the world that they truly value their customers
This is a long thread and some of it is a bit too technical for me, even though I am an engineer and could probably try to figure out what N900 owners can expect. However, i will say this:
If Nokia decides to abandon Maemo as an OS open source project and go head first into MeeGo with no Maemo 5 compatibility or feasible upgrade, simply put I am never going back to Nokia and I have been a very loyal customer in the past.
They marketed the N900 as a powerhouse mobile computer with infinite possibilities because of Maemo's open source, but if they are ignorant and discourage developers from making new applications and are now only compatable with Maemo6/MeeGo, they have basically fooled us all into buying an N900 as we would be the only ones with Maemo 5 and this community will shrink over a short period of time while all we can do is watch as other OS' blossom.
I understand that I haven't looked into recent news or go in depth into the technical compatibility possibilities, but regardless, at the end of the day, it comes down to whether Nokia makes a dick move based their newer more economical-potential agenda, or a move that tells the world that they truly value their customers
I don't get that at all. I do see a lot of talk about "abandonment", and being treated poorly by the Big Bad Company, being used as a Guinea pig, etc.on these boards lately. After hearing that bell being rung for so long I can see how it could affect attitudes.
I still don't understand where these issues come from with regard to Nokia. Is it from past behavior? Windows Mobile? yes; Palm? yes; first gen iPhone? maybe; Nokia? not so much.
So I suspect much of this separation anxiety and the abandonment issues we are seeing are based on experiences with other companies.
When OS2007 became available for the N800, 770 owners also felt abandoned. However, Nokia came through and offered through this community, an HE version that ran on the different hardware found on the 770.
It was not "officially" supported by Nokia, but it was still made available. I believe the same thing will occur with Harmattan/Maemo6/Meego IF, for whatever reason Nokia decides not to "officialy" support the N900 with the new OS.
I bought an N800 over 3 years ago and still use it for hacking. My N810 (which was only bought because I got such a great deal) is in my car and I use it everyday. In some ways it is more useful to me then my N900. If I hadn't bought the N810, I would be using the N800 with BT GPS daily in my car instead.
To me^ that's a pretty good deal. The iPAQ I purchased 1 1/2 years before I first heard about the N800 and Nokia Internet Tablets was obsolete in 8 months and it cost $60 more than the N800. A TomTom Navigator I bought for my wife two holiday seasons ago has already gone through 3 OS generations that hers can't run... but they still want to sell us map updates. :rolleyes:
So Nokia, Maemo, and this community have been pretty good to me.
...but enough about me, :D back to the topic at hand.
Maemo5 and the N900 will run QT. QT apps developed for Meego will run on the N900 after a recompile. Ergo, more apps will be available for the N900 and from other sources than if Maemo6 was developed for only the N900 and its successors.
As a bonus! MeeGo will be more open than Maemo ever was. If better telephony, contact management, and other core apps are developed for it, these too have a better chance of being back ported to the N900. A much better chance than core apps developed for an exclusive Maemo6 device or any other "in house" successor if that was the path taken by Nokia.
I do have issues with Nokia marketing in that they targeted phone bloggers early on. For many of these bloggers this was their first exposure to Maemo.
People interested in phones read phone blogs. Many of the unreasonable expectations we see may have come from these blogger's enthusiasm over yet another "phone" loaned to them by Nokia.
As far as abandonment or disregard for the Maemo community by Nokia, I have not seen it in my 3+ years using a Maemo device
...and I don't think your mileage will vary. :)
This thread is simply about the fact that Nokia has deprecated the name of "Maemo 6" in favor of MeeGo and Harmattan.
If you want to know about the future of the N900 the most official and accurate answers can be found at the 'Cleaning N900 FUD' thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=46187
geekonabike
2010-03-04, 01:40
The money & name. It sure ain't about use users. If they had to go netbook OS joliecloud would have worked smother, faster & better.
maemo 5 is not complete it lacks native features like mms and built in support for the front camera and IR port
software to use such is still experimental and when there is a new OS that the N900 cant run we loose the developers to fill in the gaps
This naming thing is STILL causing confusion. I even fell into the trap today after thinking I had it straight. Surely Nokia and Intel and figure out a way to make this more clear...
What was your confusion, specifically?
My confusion has been resolved. I get the technical aspect vs branding aspect. I hope.
But I'm telling you, you're seeing the tip of a marketing iceberg, and MeeGo is the Titannic. Drama aside, Attila77's suggestion to add subbranding would probably go a long way toward minimizing the FUD that MeeGo will really instigate once it starts finding its way to TVs, automobiles and toasters. Granted this is not a Quim or Ari or even Nokia issue, it's a MeeGo one.
MeeGo really needs a message that we evangelists can present to the buying public in 3 sentences or less. MeeGo isn't what's gonna resonate with the masses; you know that. MeeGo + "UX value added" is what they'll expect.
(sorry for being obtuse... the MeeGo/Harmattan/Moblin2.2 situation is what's causing confusion as I can see)
I personally believe most of this confusion will vanish when we have beta/stable releases and launched devices to name.
attila77
2010-03-17, 11:14
I personally believe most of this confusion will vanish when we have beta/stable releases and launched devices to name.
Could you share the rationale ? Harmattan is still going to be Maemo under the hood, Moblin 2.2 is still good old Moblin under the hood, so the best we can talk about is actually how easy it will be to transfer applications, development, etc between 'mainline' MeeGos and these 'work-in-progress' MeeGos, but that does still not help differentiating them. For example, how do you explain the difference between the LG GW990 and the future Harmattan device to someone ? Both claim to be MeeGo phones (or mobile computers) but - they have separate architectures, separate UIs, separate (but similar) APIs, separate package management, separate appstores/repositories, separate upgrade paths... you get the idea - there's just too many loose ends with the current transitional devices to be able to get away with calling them all MeeGo, no matter how tempting that may be from a marketing perspective. You'll just end up diluting the MeeGo brand, as it won't matter if something is MeeGo or not, but rather which exact device you have, which does not bode well for the platform (by either the weak branding OR the fragmentation it foreshadows).
I don't think what Attila is saying can even be overstated.
Of course the risk of confusion, brand dillution and platform fragmentatio can't be overstated. I'm just saying that first things go first: architectures, APIs, platform compliance criteria and brand guidelines.
All this needs to be done by the MeeGo project, say before a beta release. Then device vendors will position their products in relation to MeeGo. Then devices will be in the shops, apps will be in stores, etc.
There is still a way for us at Nokia to get there. In the meantime we are calling MeeGo to MeeGo and Harmattan to Harmattan.
lemmyslender
2010-03-17, 15:27
...
There is still a way for us at Nokia to get there. In the meantime we are calling MeeGo to MeeGo and Harmattan to Harmattan.
Perhaps this is where some of the confusion is coming from? Personally, I thought:
Maemo 5 = Fremantle
Maemo 6 = Harmattan
Then I thought you started a thread requesting a rename of one of the forums, which I can't find right now? Reading that thread and others has lead me to believe
Maemo 6 = Harmattan ~ MeeGo, the understanding being that Maemo 6, Harmattan, MeeGo were all semi-interchangeable, with MeeGo being the new brand that Maemo 6 / Harmattan would be released under?
Now, you seem (to me) to be implying that they are separate?
I thought the next Nokia device to be released, would state on the box/literature/marketing that it runs MeeGo, not Maemo? I think this is were the confusion (at least mine, right now) is coming from.
Sorry if this post is confusing
Sorry if this post is confusing
No need to apologize IMO. Until highly-visible and engaged members like yourself are comfortable explaining this subject to others, then this venture is prone to stumble.
attila77
2010-03-17, 15:39
Of course the risk of confusion, brand dillution and platform fragmentatio can't be overstated. I'm just saying that first things go first: architectures, APIs, platform compliance criteria and brand guidelines.
Exactly. That's why it seemed a bit premature to rush out and call/rebrand Harmattan + Moblin 2.2 as MeeGo instances even *before* architecture, APIs and platform compliance criteria were determined. I understand Nokia was put between a rock and a hard place when asked about Harmattan in a MeeGo context. It's understandable both Intel and Nokia want to protect their investment and avoid the Osborne effect, but OTOH this puts the MeeGo brand itself in an arduous position. I just hope long term architecture and compliance criteria will not be sacrificed in order to save face on PR and upgrade questions. All in all, more discussion will follow after "day one", I just hope *all* the Nokia *AND* Intel teams think this through, together, before committing the big guns to particular tasks.
A good and maybe ironic example of how some of the confusion is mitigated by competitors: Microsoft calling its automotive solution SYNC rather than "Windows for Automobiles".
Similarly, MeeGo in the context of automotive use will be sitting under GENIVI (http://tabulacrypticum.wordpress.com/2010/03/11/meego-on-wheels/). So what name will be ringing in the ears of automobile purchasers? Surely GENIVI, not MeeGo.
Up to now Maemo resided on internet tablets and now mobile computers, and there were more similarities than differences between the various devices. So not so much risk of consumer confusion. In this case Maemo was the branding of the consumer layer.
But MeeGo will find its way into broader contexts. Saying "this is Maemo 4 on the N810, this is Maemo 5 on the N900" is not the same as "this is a flavor of MeeGo on your cell phone, this is a flavor of MeeGo on your refrigerator". Consumers aren't going to care about embedded versions, and they'll be confused by anyone referring to those embedded operating systems by the exact same name applied to their cell phone (when I told friends and family I had repaired my refrigerator's motherboard, they did not know how to receive that :D).
So again, to Attila77's earlier suggestion, there need to be two tiers of branding for MeeGo, with MeeGo as the underlying context and some distinction added by a subbrand:
MeeGo Embedded
MeeGo Mobile
MeeGo Desktop
etc
Specifics on how to apply this and clarify the current MeeGo/Harmatttan/Mobiln2.2 muddiness-- I currently have no idea. And that's a problem, because I have enough experience with this that it *should* come easily.
Then I thought you started a thread requesting a rename of one of the forums, which I can't find right now?
That was in this very thread - originally post 1 but now post 14 due to this thread being merged with a similar earlier one.
lemmyslender
2010-03-17, 16:59
I hate to do this (as it may spread un-need FUD), but I also want to be clear what is going on here.
Previously, there were 2 groups inside Nokia working on Maemo (probably an oversimplification). One doing bugfixes for Fremantle, and one working on Harmattan development, at least that's what I assume.
So my inital assumption was that the Harmattan group would transition into the MeeGo group. Which I suppose, now that I think about it, was misguided (at least as far as the near future).
To me, it seems as though there are/shold be 3 groups? Fremantle bugfix, Harmattan development, MeeGo development? MeeGo development being a blend of Intel/Nokia people? Which leads me to wonder what Nokia thoughts on cost-effective distribution of resources are.
lemmyslender
2010-03-17, 17:00
That was in this very thread - originally post 1 but now post 14 due to this thread being merged with a similar earlier one.
Thank you, confusing to say the least, I was searching for threads started by qgil, hence didn't see this one.
Thanks pelago.
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=529073&postcount=14 still stands for the topic of this thread: Maemo 6 vs Harmattan / MeeGo.
If you have proposals for MeeGo branding the best place to post them is the MeeGo project.
Thanks pelago.
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=529073&postcount=14 still stands for the topic of this thread: Maemo 6 vs Harmattan / MeeGo.
If you have proposals for MeeGo branding the best place to post them is the MeeGo project.
But does that apply to Harmattan, as was mentioned on one of the email lists earlier?
We're talking about an unusual and awkward branding subject here that straddles Maemo/MeeGo.
EDIT: actually, as Attila77 pointed out, it's bigger than just branding due to deb/rpm, etc.
johnkzin
2010-03-17, 17:30
Personally, the whole thing just sounds like a remix of that Hang Williams jr song...
Goodbye Joe, me gotta go, meego maemo
Son of a gun, we'll have big fun on the bayou
Everything that gets said about it (on both sides of the coin) is just similar jibberish to me.
That was Hank Williams Sr. ;)
Milhouse
2010-03-17, 17:47
Maybe I'm wrong on this but here's my take...
Harmattan can be called MeeGo 1 for all I care, as long as Harmattan devices can be upgraded to the fully integrated MeeGo 2.
I hate to bring up the subject of device upgrades, but if the illusion is given that Harmattan *is* "MeeGo" (albeit with DEB packaging etc.) then it's a nonsense to release a different and technically incompatible MeeGo (with RPM packaging) only for those Harmattan users to discover they weren't actually running the real deal after all, and can't upgrade to the real deal either.
If a Harmattan upgrade path is built into the MeeGo plan then Harmattan could be based on a Windows kernel and nobody should care - it's only a transitional and temporary step in order to get to the promised land: MeeGo.
If the intention is for Harmattan to have a life beyond MeeGo then it would be wrong to confuse matters by referring to Harmattan as "MeeGo" because it's not MeeGo.
However if Harmattan is meant to be replaced by MeeGo - and users *can* replace Harmattan with MeeGo - then I would see no problem in blurring the distinction and allow both to be called MeeGo (perhaps v1 and v2...) and the sooner Harmattan and even Maemo is forgotten, the better.
attila77
2010-03-17, 17:51
But does that apply to Harmattan, as was mentioned on one of the email lists earlier?
Yes, the issue is with Harmattan (and Moblin). Only Nokia can (un)brand Harmattan. MeeGo 1.0 as a result of a *finished* Moblin+Maemo merger I understand. QGil in this very thread said a month ago:
Maemo 6 and Moblin 2.x merge and have a successor called MeeGo
So far so good. But as time went by, both Maemo 6 and Moblin 2.2 picked up on the MeeGo moniker, so it's no longer just the result or successor that is called MeeGo. Maemo 6 is now MeeGo / Harmattan, and worse yet, moblin folks refer to Moblin 2.2 simply as MeeGo, which translates the above statement to MeeGo / Harmattan and MeeGo merge and have a successor called MeeGo. That can't be right... Harmattan and Moblin 2.2 as sort of ProtoMeeGo are okay, but pushing them under a MeeGo 1.0 umbrella will be a stretch no matter how you do it (being both better and worse ways of communicating this to people not interested in details, just general compatibility and upgrades).
I think the confusion arise from a confusing (fast changing) market. Cellphone are not what they use to be and people have come to expect more computer-like feature from them (see any FUD thread on tmo).
If I remember correctly even Google surprised a lot of people when they announced their Chrome OS. Why another OS when you already have Android ? I believe it is because right now we have "book sized internet portal" (netbook) and "pocket sized internet portal" (smartphone).
Nokia and Intel are just trying to merge the two worlds (duh !). So yeah, Maemo + Moblin = MeeGo on some device that is half smartphone and half notebook. I am not speaking of the next Harmattan device here. The one after, after that.
For now we will have to live with the (marketing created) confusion. In my opinion they should keep Maemo branding for smartphone and Moblin branding for netbook.
jcharpak
2010-03-17, 19:32
This is a simple request to rename this forum but it's worth getting into more details to clarify things.
Harmattan is the name of the software program that comes after Fremantle / Maemo 5. In the Maemo Summit we already announced it as "Maemo 6" in order to bring a clear signal about the major update, change of toolkit, etc.
Now MeeGo (http://meego.com) comes to the picture. "Maemo 6" will not be used by Nokia as a brand since all the marketing effort around the software platform will be around MeeGo.
.
Point of order:
"Simple" requests to rename (sub) forums should not be made in posts in the subforums themselves, they should be made in posts in the community subforum whose function is precisely "Website and community discussion".
You explained why the text Maemo 6 should be dropped from the forum's name and this makes sense. You explained why Harmattan is still valid. And that makes sense. You then asked to attach the text Meego which appears to be the new name of the operating system brand to the name of Harmattan which is an OS *version*. in which case it should not have included the "/" character just like there is no "/" between Maemo and 4 or Maemo and 5.
Is Meego like Windows or Windows 7?
Is Meego like Ubuntu or Ubuntu Karmic Koala?
Is Meego like Mac OS X or is it Mac OS X Snow Leopard?
Hm..bad example. But Apple gets away with a lot of stuff Nokia can't.
Personally I think the forum should have been renamed
"Maemo 6/Harmattan/Nokia ancestor of Meego"
where one could ask questions like "how to convert rpm's to deb's
We could also have created a subforum under the OS forum called
"Moblin 2/Intel ancestor of Meego" where we could ask questions like "how to convert deb's to rpm's?"
Finally we could create yet another subforum "Meego 1/Adaptable Alex" or whatever "A" word or combination of words you want to use. In this forum we could ask questions like "WHEN IT IS COMING!!!?!?!11!1" :) (typos added for humor)
Btw is Harmattan/MeeGo release date still May like it was said in the 2009 Maemo event?
benny1967
2010-04-28, 10:45
Interesting question tissot. Would be interesting if they're still on track with Harmattan ;)
(And if not, we could start a speculation thread about the Harmattan SDK release date...)
pantera1989
2010-04-28, 10:48
Don't you just love speculations... -.-
Don't you just love speculations... -.-
That's what keeps man alive. ;)
attila77
2010-04-28, 12:33
Btw is Harmattan/MeeGo release date still May like it was said in the 2009 Maemo event?
Huh ? Harmattan is 2H2010, unless you refer to the Harmattan alpha SDK. We might see MeeGo 1.0, though i'm not sure if it will also not sport a 'beta' or 'alpha' moniker (and no, that one is still not for end-users).
Precisely yesterday I was thinking that this thread about naming could be de-sticked.
Posts #145 and following are a different topic,please move to a new thread.
Btw is Harmattan/MeeGo release date still May like it was said in the 2009 Maemo event?
Being now Harmattan a transition towards MeeGo, we have decided to let MeeGo releases go first, and then add at a side the Harmattan specific details for those really interested.
Also the fact of publishing SDK pre-releases changes a lot now that we have Qt as baseline and the Qt SDK as official tool.
This is why the Harmattan alpha SDK release announced last year for 1Q 2010 ended up being the MeeGo Day 1. Now we are waiting for the first MeeGo release to be published in few weeks. The plan is to publish the Harmattan platform SDK (Scratchbox based) few weeks after targeting mainly platform developers interested in the diffs between MeeGo and Harmattan with the goal of polishing/bridging them towards the next MeeGo release in Autumn and the Harmattan final release.
Let me insist that MeeGo, with its SDK and build infrastructure, is the track that developers need to follow - including those interested primarily in the evolution of Maemo. The Scratchbox based Harmattan SDK will be interesting just for a minority of really specialized developers interested in software architecture and middleware details.
benny1967
2010-04-29, 07:41
So let me repeat that in my own words just to make sure I understood it correctly:
Up to now (pre-Harmattan), the Scratchbox-based SDK was what (amost) all developers needed.
This has changed now because of MeeGo and (maybe more important) Qt, and you have three offers:
Application developers can (and should) download the Qt SDK (Beta) right now and start developing for Harmattan with this IDE. Most of them will not need the Scratchbox-based SDK any more.
Platform developers can (and should) go to meego.com right now and join the party there.
Only a few cases will require access to code that's specific to Harmattan. These cases will not be covered by the abstraction layer that Qt offers, nor by the stock MeeGo code. Developers who need these middle layer are the only ones who'll still need the Scratchbox-based SDK.
Is that how it is now? So especially for application developers, does this mean: Stop waiting for a Harmattan-specific SDK, start working with the Qt SDK now?
attila77
2010-04-29, 07:59
Application developers can (and should) download the Qt SDK (Beta) right now and start developing for Harmattan with this IDE. Most of them will not need the Scratchbox-based SDK any more.
This is starting with Fremantle, actually (targeting PR1.2+ at that), and will carry on to Harmattan later on (I say later on, as the Maemo 6 UI Framework had no releases so far, so technically there is nothing - yet - to write for or test against).
Is that how it is now? So especially for application developers, does this mean: Stop waiting for a Harmattan-specific SDK, start working with the Qt SDK now?
Exactly. The plan offered by MeeGo and coincidentally ;) Nokia is to sit on top of the Qt API and tools. Then make your choices on platforms to target and devices to optimize for only when it comes to compile, test, package and publish.
Qt development is quite open. Qt 4.6 has been around for several months and you don't need any MeeGo or Harmattan specific SDK to get you started.
Qt 4.7 is being developed right now, with all the code and tools being available and in the process of stabilization. This means that you can start playing with Qt Quick (http://blog.qt.nokia.com/2010/02/15/meet-qt-quick/) even before any MeeGo or Symbian folk makes an official statement about it. Because Qt Quick is in Qt 4.7, and that version will be integrated in Qt based platforms at some point.
Same for the Qt Mobility APIs, they are being developed openly and there is nothing really stopping you from getting familiar with them. Nobody has sai what Mobility APIs will be ready for the next MeeGo (or Symbian) releases but as a developer you can start using them, testing them, providing feedback, filing bugs... and with this you will contribute to their readiness.
Conclusion: you still need a MeeGo Qt SDK to release your MeeGo ready software, but you can start your MeeGo development already now with the Qt Nokia SDK (targetting Maemo 5 and Symbian if you wish) since most of the Qt pieces are in place already.
TheBootroo
2010-05-12, 12:10
i got libdui compiling on my ubuntu laptop but i cant get mthemedaemon running but duitheme is installed ....
i dont understand, i want to test widget gallery and then try to compile duihome but i cant even run mthemedaemon ....
HEEEEEELP !!
PS : ubuntu 10.04, qt4.6.2, with build-essentials
PS2 : i'm a qt4/C++ dev so don't worry about telling me technical words, i know them ;-)
TheBotroo, you have more chances of getting feedback from the maintainers at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44562
Boixos Nois
2010-05-17, 10:45
Hello!
Does anyone know if there will be an official update from Maemo 6 to MeeGo?
attila77
2010-05-17, 14:31
Maemo 6 (just as Maemo 5) cannot be upgraded to MeeGo. Note that this is a different question as to whether MeeGo is installable on the device that will originally ship with Maemo 6.
TheBootroo
2010-05-19, 07:50
UPDATE :
I downloaded contextkit and libcontentaction from maemo-af gitorious and got contextkit compiling but not libcontentaction
then i got libdui, duitheme, duicontrolpanel and duihome compiling on my ubuntu but not duicompositor because of contentaction missing...
and i can't run mthemedaemon, so all harmattan apps launched just shows me a blank screen
but there's some progress !!
Answering http://tabulacrypticum.wordpress.com/2010/06/10/maemo-missteps-for-2010/
MeeGo-Harmattan Hybrid Naming
This is one of the biggest confusion generators I’ve seen come from Team Maemo. After MeeGo was first formally announced, the next release of Maemo (code named Harmattan) came into question. Word from Nokia was that a Harmattan device was still on track for release but it would not be branded as a Maemo product. Instead, Harmattan would be deemed as “an instance of MeeGo” and was referred to as “MeeGo-Harmattan”.
There is a post from me somewhere where I'm proposing this provisional name to be used here between us while the real name comes. And it's coming. Somewhere else I was saying that a dependency is the MeeGo Compliance Program, that is also coming.
That might not be a problem, except for one little detail: MeeGo relies on the RPM approach to application packaging, whereas Harmattan will continue with the DEB format used by Maemo. This makes “MeeGo-Harmattan” a transitional hybrid.
Most N900 users haven't seen "deb" ever since they just go to Ovi Store or maemo.org Extras, via online or local application, and slect their apps based in one icon, a description, etc.
MeeGo-Harmattan users (let me insist, provisional name) will be exactly in the same situation: Ovi Store, meego.com community repository, installable online or via local app.
Why Nokia doesn’t just go ahead with the Maemo 6 label just for this release I’m not sure…
It will become clear to you when you see the MeeGo Handset UX next to the MeeGo-Harmattan UX, the MeeGo & MeeGo Handset API next to the MeeGo-Harmattan API. Then you can add to the mix the Maemo 5 UX and API and you will see that MeeGo-Harmattan is indeed much more MeeGo than Maemo. Sure, they share Debian packaging but really this means nothing to end users and actually not much to application developers using the MeeGo SDK and API.
but the hybrid naming has resulted in significant confusion in the Maemo community.
To be honest, who should be really interested in this discussion at this point, before any MeeGo-Harmattan device, UX or SDK announced? Only a bunch of platform developers and people alike really understanding about architectures, APIs, packaging, developer tools, etc. I count less confused people in that sector. Thy are more like waiting for the real beef to come or thinking that whatever, it's all about marketing and what counts is the wide picture and the evolution of the whole thing into pure MeeGo.
The "confusion" can be also better understood under the context of a discontent for factors mentioned in your blog post. If Nokia would have said in the MeeGo launch at February that MeeGo-Harmattan will be officially supported in the N900 and there are details that will be sorted out many of the vocal 'confused' posters here would have just celebrated and moved forward. Yet the naming has nothing to do with the decision to support or not the N900 in future MeeGo commercial releases...
For that reason I proposed at talk.maemo.org that Nokia come up with some official name making clear the transitional nature of the upcoming OS.
Which is coming.
I have not seen any movement on this lately, so to prod Nokia along I have some suggestions:
* MidGo
* MinMo
* …or even MaeGo
I’m sure the creative bunch reading this will have ideas too, right?
Thanks for the help, but in this case it's not needed.
droitwichgas
2010-06-11, 20:26
Reading between the lines I assume the MeeGo-Harmattan Hybrid will not be called just plain Meego as most of us assumed but something along the lines of MeaGo (I can see another lenghy " chuck norris speculation about ..." thread starting already!) However surely this will lead to more confusion amongst developers who will now have to think about developing for meamo or MeaGo or simply sit and wait for MeeGo to appear.
I appreciate QT should mean this is not an issue but since PR1.2 I haven't seen one decent game/app developed on QT released or any suggestion we are likely to see any sometime soon.
Is all the work getting a community based MeaGo going to be any real benefit to an average N900 user?
this will lead to more confusion amongst developers
Are you a developer? What is exactly confusing for you now?
Even for developers the situation is now about targeting Qt / Maemo 5 and for the rest wait and see. There are not evden much details about the Web Runtime, which will bring a level of cross-compatibility that can't be compared to native programming.
droitwichgas
2010-06-12, 07:55
Are you a developer? What is exactly confusing for you now?
Even for developers the situation is now about targeting Qt / Maemo 5 and for the rest wait and see. There are not evden much details about the Web Runtime, which will bring a level of cross-compatibility that can't be compared to native programming.
No just an end user who's disappointed at the lack of any quality games/apps availablefor the phone via the Ovi store, which I am more than willing to purchase should they ever appear.
No just an end user who's disappointed
And what makes you think that developers will be confused by this?
Developers are smart people, you know.
By the way, my thoughts are:
What Quim said, basically means this:
"If you want to develop for MeeGo, start developing today for Maemo 5, and we promise that your app will run on MeeGo with a single click on a button."
That's it.
The good thing about this is that it is actually true provided you wrap your platform-specific API calls within #if-s (or don't use them at all).
The games you are looking for probably are based on OpenGL ES, and I don't think the developers working on those games will get confused.
droitwichgas
2010-06-12, 09:50
And what makes you think that developers will be confused by this?
Developers are smart people, you know.
By the way, my thoughts are:
What Quim said, basically means this:
"If you want to develop for MeeGo, start developing today for Maemo 5, and we promise that your app will run on MeeGo with a single click on a button."
That's it.
The good thing about this is that it is actually true provided you wrap your platform-specific API calls within #if-s (or don't use them at all).
If that is the case why is it that we are not seeing any decent games/apps for the N900, are developers simply not interested in this device/platform, if so, why is that, are Nokia not encouraging them to develope anything?
Since PR1.2 the only thing, bar Angry Birds Level 1, I have downloaded is the World Cup app but it is irratating to see that they are already advertising apparently decent games for the N8.
attila77
2010-06-12, 09:53
What Quim said, basically means this:
"If you want to develop for MeeGo, start developing today for Maemo 5, and we promise that your app will run on MeeGo with a single click on a button."
That's it.
The good thing about this is that it is actually true provided you wrap your platform-specific API calls within #if-s (or don't use them at all).
#ifdefs don’t cut it. That was one of the reason Qt was born in the first place.
An example about the confusion stems from the many announced promising technologies which, to the developer, have time unclear future or internal relations. Whatever you do on Maemo 5 will look crappy (or out-of-place at best) on Harmattan, and there is already UI technology that points beyond Harmattan. You already have three (or four, if the reference UX counts) different ways of doing an UI without the necessary background knowledge or insight to make a stategic decision which one to use. And I haven’t even started talking about Symbian, which will certainly be a major factor in technology choices in any paid developer’s work. So no, it’s not really clear, partially due to the speed of technology development, but is worsened a lot by the incoherent naming strategy which will have to be corrected before any final release is made.
And a general comment - ’smartness’ of developers have nothing to do with it. That’s like saying Qt doesn’t need documentation - if you’re smart enough you’ll figure it out based on the source. The goal is to make the tools easily approachable and to minimize the learning curve and potential communicational errors later on. A clear structure (naming included) helps *everyone* interested in the platform.
#ifdefs don’t cut it. That was one of the reason Qt was born in the first place.
Qt offers platform-specific APIs for every platform.
This means that if I'd like my app to have the right look and feel for the platform, I'll need to use them.
If you want you app to run on other platforms as well, you should #ifdef them.
(Not to mention the platform-specific UI stuff that Qt has no abstraction for - in this case, direct reference to libraries of that platform are needed.)
Whatever you do on Maemo 5 will look crappy (or out-of-place at best) on Harmattan
Why would it?
I guess QMainWindow and QPushButton and so on will look as defined in Harmattan's theme.
Of course, a little Harmattan-specific APIs here and there (with #ifdefs of course, to keep the app compiling on Maemo 5) and all is well.
And I haven't spoken about Symbian yet - if a Qt app needs to run on different versions of Symbian and on different versions of Maemo (and perhaps desktop?), and wants to maintain the best look and feel on each platform, #ifdefs are inevitable.
You already have three (or four, if the reference UX counts) different ways of doing an UI without the necessary background knowledge or insight to make a stategic decision which one to use.
What are those different ways?
I'm asking out of curiousity, as I'm quite new to Qt.
And a general comment - ’smartness’ of developers have nothing to do with it. That’s like saying Qt doesn’t need documentation
My point didn't have anything to do with Qt or its documentation.
My point was for a non-developer who assumed that developers would get confused.
A clear structure (naming included) helps *everyone* interested in the platform.
As I say the n-th time here: agreed!
attila77
2010-06-12, 11:38
Qt offers platform-specific APIs for every platform.
This means that if I'd like my app to have the right look and feel for the platform, I'll need to use them.
If you want you app to run on other platforms as well, you should #ifdef them.
Why would it?
I guess QMainWindow and QPushButton and so on will look as defined in Harmattan's theme.
Of course, a little Harmattan-specific APIs here and there (with #ifdefs of course, to keep the app compiling on Maemo 5) and all is well.
What are those different ways?
I'm asking out of curiousity, as I'm quite new to Qt.
I used to code in Qt from before the times Maemo existed. The great thing about Qt was that, in gereneal, there WAS no #ifdef required (i you had it, it was considered bad programming or platform incompatibility). Whether you coded for XP, Mac or Linux, you used the same API. It was (still is) a really cool thing. With mobile development this changed - my Maemo apps are already littered with #ifdefs as I want them to compile on my deskop, on Qt4.5 (for N8x0) and Qt4.6 (PR1.2), and chances are there will be another volley of #ifdefs for each release of Qt and each device (worse yet, every firmware release), and my Qt code starts looking as ugly as any bog-standard C++ code that is trying to be multiplatform. And that scares me as a developer, since Qt was supposed to (and did in the past) relieve me from that. And I’m not just talking widget libs here.
As for the different ways
the "standard widget from code" approach. This will work everywere, look fairly localized but also the one that users usually refer to as "crappy looking community apps". No whizz, no bang. Adaptation already needed due to input technologies (fingerscroll, etc). Requirements: Qt
QtDesigner approach - similar to above, but using the QtDesigner UI editor. Speeds up UI development by a more visual way of assembling components. The downside is that QtDesigner does not know anything about mobile use, so you are missing out not only on the mobile-specific widgets, but also the generic look and styling - you do not see how your app will actually look on the device (the same problem Qt Simulator has). Requirements: Qt4.0+
GraphicsView approach - you draw your own stuff, no "classic" layouting, but you can use widgets and custom elements. More whizz, more bang, animation friendly, but requires a LOT of trial-and-error work. Requirements: Qt4.4+
MeeGo Touch framework - Features include standardized window navigation, list and other widget behavior, and common theming for components. Also known as MeeGo UI framework. Also known as DirectUI framework. Also known as DUI framework. Requirements: Qt4.6+, MeeGo API
MeeGo reference UX (handheld/netbook/etc) - UI implementation based on the MeeGo Touch Framework. Not released yet, so not clear how much customization a "pure meego touch" based app will require to fit in nicely. Requirements: Qt4.6+, MeeGo
Orbit - An UI framework, parallel to the MeeGo Touch Framework, initially for use on Symbian devices, but demonstrated to work on Maemo, too. Also known as UI Extensions for Mobile. Also known as Uiemo. Requirements: Qt4.6+, Symbian^4
Harmattan UX - like the MeeGo reference UX, but specific to the N900 successor. Requirements: Qt4.6+, MeeGo
QML - a Declarative UI tool, in effect a markup language that defines UI elements and their behavior in a declarative manner, allowing, snappy, whizzy UIs. Requirements: Qt4.7+
Qt Quick - the Qt User Interface Creation Kit, which consists of QML, a specialized editor in QtCreator and all-around support for the declarative approach. Also known as Qt Declarative. Also known as Declarative UI. Also known as Bauhaus. Requirements: Qt4.7+
To make things more tricky, these overlap a bit, so you can incorporate elements of one into the other, and there are often backports that allow technologies to be tested on previous versions. Also, did get more that four ways... I think I’m going to make a Qt/MeeGo dictionary :)
I used to code in Qt from before the times Maemo existed. The great thing about Qt was that, in gereneal, there WAS no #ifdef required (i you had it, it was considered bad programming or platform incompatibility). Whether you coded for XP, Mac or Linux, you used the same API. It was (still is) a really cool thing.
Yes, it is.
Or more correctly, it would be.
With mobile development this changed - my Maemo apps are already littered with #ifdefs as I want them to compile on my deskop, on Qt4.5 (for N8x0) and Qt4.6 (PR1.2), and chances are there will be another volley of #ifdefs for each release of Qt and each device (worse yet, every firmware release), and my Qt code starts looking as ugly as any bog-standard C++ code that is trying to be multiplatform. And that scares me as a developer, since Qt was supposed to (and did in the past) relieve me from that. And I’m not just talking widget libs here.
Ah, now this is what I was talkig about. :)
If you don't mind, I'm gonna react to each of the ways you described. :)
the "standard widget from code" approach. This will work everywere, look fairly localized but also the one that users usually refer to as "crappy looking community apps". No whizz, no bang. Adaptation already needed due to input technologies (fingerscroll, etc). Requirements: Qt
Well, this is essentially the same as the next one, minus the designer.
QtDesigner approach - similar to above, but using the QtDesigner UI editor. Speeds up UI development by a more visual way of assembling components. The downside is that QtDesigner does not know anything about mobile use, so you are missing out not only on the mobile-specific widgets, but also the generic look and styling - you do not see how your app will actually look on the device (the same problem Qt Simulator has). Requirements: Qt4.0+
This is my current preferred way of doing things.
However, where the standard widgets don't look good enough for a platform, I'm not afraid to use platform-specific stuff.
GraphicsView approach - you draw your own stuff, no "classic" layouting, but you can use widgets and custom elements. More whizz, more bang, animation friendly, but requires a LOT of trial-and-error work. Requirements: Qt4.4+
Seems nice, but way over my current needs.
MeeGo Touch framework - Features include standardized window navigation, list and other widget behavior, and common theming for components. Also known as MeeGo UI framework. Also known as DirectUI framework. Also known as DUI framework. Requirements: Qt4.6+, MeeGo API
Since this is specific to MeeGo, I'm not very happy about using it. There was already an example somewhere - every class name began with "Dui" instead of "Q", very thoughtful.
Okay, for MeeGo-specific look and feel, I will gladly throw in some DuiThis or DuiThat, but building my entire app on these things seems wrong. (Unless the app only targets MeeGo.)
MeeGo reference UX (handheld/netbook/etc) - UI implementation based on the MeeGo Touch Framework. Not released yet, so not clear how much customization a "pure meego touch" based app will require to fit in nicely. Requirements: Qt4.6+, MeeGo
So, this is based on the above, right?
More platform specific stuff, great!
Orbit - An UI framework, parallel to the MeeGo Touch Framework, initially for use on Symbian devices, but demonstrated to work on Maemo, too. Also known as UI Extensions for Mobile. Also known as Uiemo. Requirements: Qt4.6+, Symbian^4
Hm, never heard of this one before, thanks for pointing at it.
Harmattan UX - like the MeeGo reference UX, but specific to the N900 successor. Requirements: Qt4.6+, MeeGo
Very good, this is even more platform specific than anything mentioned.
QML - a Declarative UI tool, in effect a markup language that defines UI elements and their behavior in a declarative manner, allowing, snappy, whizzy UIs. Requirements: Qt4.7+
QML seems great (as a competitor to XAML, I guess?), but it doesn't have anything to do with an app having platform-specific look and feel - rather an app looking the same on every platform.
Qt Quick - the Qt User Interface Creation Kit, which consists of QML, a specialized editor in QtCreator and all-around support for the declarative approach. Also known as Qt Declarative. Also known as Declarative UI. Also known as Bauhaus. Requirements: Qt4.7+
Okay, so this is "just" some tooling for the above, isn't it?
To make things more tricky, these overlap a bit, so you can incorporate elements of one into the other, and there are often backports that allow technologies to be tested on previous versions. Also, did get more that four ways... I think I’m going to make a Qt/MeeGo dictionary :)
This is the part that is great about Qt. We can use whatever things are there together - the right tool for each purpose.
attila77, your list of bullets is way too long since it includes repetitions but, most important, it is not related to the naming since both MeeGo and MeeGo-Harmattan will offer you the same choices within the Qt family.
Web Runtime? Plain Qt? Quick? OpenGL ES? Your choice independently of MeeGo, MeeGo-Harmattan or even Symbian. Still not happy and willing to go for MeeGo Touch Framework? Fine for MeeGo and MeeGo-Harmattan.
If you keep yourself in the official API most probably all your headache will be to compile and package separately for MeeGo and MeeGo-Harmattan. But anyway, even within MeeGo rpm you might need to compile native apps more than once to target x86 or different ARM chipsets. All this can be a quite automated process, though.
More than the names, developers will care about the relation between extra work, potential userbase and/or profits. Which is a calculation they are used to do.
attila77
2010-06-12, 13:39
attila77, your list of bullets is way too long since it includes repetitions but, most important, it is not related to the naming since both MeeGo and MeeGo-Harmattan will offer you the same choices within the Qt family.
Take a look at how many ’also know as’-es are there in my list. That’s purely nomenclature, and I wasn’t even overly trying, just listing them off the top of my head. This is not just about the ’provisional naming of MeeGo-Harmattan’, but a general flux of platform related terms and their relations.
More than the names, developers will care about the relation between extra work, potential userbase and/or profits. Which is a calculation they are used to do.
What I’m saying (this applies to Venemo’s comment, too) is that there are many choices you need to decide on (not a bad thing in itself), but you need to do far more research than on any other platform to be able to say you’re making a proper engineering/business choice and not guesstimating. No, of course it’s not impossible or rocket science (even though the documentation is practically source-only, but I’ll not count that against the platform as it’s all still prerelease). It’s just that every single mainstream mobile development platform I ever came in contact with requires a lot less effort for a developer to reach the point where he understands exactly what the options are and to be able to utilize them. Qt certainly gives you options/latitude, but at the moment (as said, mainly due to the speed of development), sometimes gives the impression of being a bit short in the focus department.
attila77, your list of bullets is way too long since it includes repetitions [...]
Isn't that an example of the developer mess that's rapidly approaching? If you're saying attila77's list wasn't accurate (and it correlates with my understanding), we've got a problem if one of the leading Qt developers and experts on maemo.org is confused.
If you keep yourself in the official API most probably all your headache will be to compile and package separately for MeeGo and MeeGo-Harmattan.
Which is the official API? Is it MeeGo Touch or Qt? If you want to build a "MeeGo" application or a cross-platform (MeeGo, Maemo 5, MeeGo-Harmattan, Symbian) application it's the latter. If you want to build a "MeeGo Handset" application, is MeeGo Touch the official API?
There's overlap here with http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=524&page=2 - but we, as developers are telling you, we're already confused with the relationship between MeeGo-Harmattan, MeeGo and Maemo. Saying "stick with the official API" doesn't help us, we've been developing applications for 5 years and want to migrate them to new platforms with as little work as possible.
But anyway, even within MeeGo rpm you might need to compile native apps more than once to target x86 or different ARM chipsets. All this can be a quite automated process, though.
Well, there's been no evidence of handling the production of deb specifics automatically from within the tools which are coming out now; so what's to assume that they'll handle deb *and* RPM packaging details? OBS should help developers at a high-level, but there's all manner of specifics to be hammered out (think dependencies which might be named differently on different platforms).
Developers: if you don't want confusion just go for the Qt 4.6 API and the Qt SDK. Good for Maemo 5, good for MeeGo 1.0, good for your Symbian work if you are interested and good as a preparation for your MeeGo 1.1 and MeeGo-Harmattan work. If you want to plan further then you have two options: wait for SDK releases with the information your are looking for or choose your preferred Qt based technology based on your own goals or skills. Web Runtime, Quick, QWidget, QGraphicsView and MeeGo Touch fill complementary areas with little overlapping, and probably reading an introduction about each will be enough for you to see what is the best for you and the project you have in mind.
Today the MeeGo official API is the Qt 4.6 API, as detailed at http://meego.com/developers/meego-api
There hasn't been any SDK release of MeeGo 1.1 or MeeGo-Harmattan, and therefore there hasn't been any announcement about their corresponding APIs. Still, Qt 4.7 is already integrated in MeeGo trunk (http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/daily/core/repos/source/), so Qt 4.7 API is expected for MeeGo 1.1.
And let me insist: this is not a confusion about naming since both MeeGo and MeeGo-Harmattan will have the same Qt offering. If you want to keep discussing about this please kve the related posts in a new thread.
Or even better, go discuss at meego-dev since this is the place where you can find, ask and influence the people working on the MeeGo tools and API.
I think it's a good name. I can see how you can twist it in to "me ego", but if you can disregard that I don't see a problem.
Sounds catchy, especially if you say it while imitating the hulk. meego store ;)
Sorry I don't like it though it was obviously chosen to point out the mobile aspects of the products using it. Can't say I can come up with something better anyway.
It probably can be construed to mean a half a dozen things. Maybe something in Finnish or Chinese since someone in China has registered Meego.org. I bet China, India, and Africa are the big targets with all these efforts.
Once they get the details of MeeGo to their liking, if I were Nokia, I would be the first handset manufacturer to routinely and for a reasonable price, offer unlocked phones in the US, if they want to play catchup.
I didn't find a MeeGo logo on the MeeGo site though other than those Peeple type characters.
What is their Logo? Is MeeGo going to be a selling point to be marketed or is it going to be Nokia brand that they are going to market? In my opinion marketing MeeGo to devs and manufacturers is fine but to the end customer they'd better stick with Nokia an d just show what the phones can do in the commercials. Nokia was my first phone and I'm sure the first phone of most people out there. I still think they have the most brand recognition world wide when it comes to cell phones.
zehjotkah
2011-01-09, 17:21
http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Style_Guide
There you can see all variants of the MeeGo logo and also learn how to use it properly.
jainkjohn
2011-01-09, 17:31
any one seen this?
http://mediacenter.motorola.com/Fact-Sheets/Motorola-ATRIX-4G-Fact-Sheet-353b.aspx
sjgadsby
2011-01-09, 17:47
any one seen this?
http://mediacenter.motorola.com/Fact-Sheets/Motorola-ATRIX-4G-Fact-Sheet-353b.aspx
Yes, there are several threads on that device already, and it is off-topic for this thread.
Jedibeeftrix
2011-03-23, 13:04
since this thread has been resurrected, i might as well put it to good use:
what's the the confusion surrounding the use of harmattan in reference to MeeGo products that has sprung up recently?
various sites seem to be saying that there will be both harmattan and Meego products, i.e. separate and distinct.
what's this about?
what's the the confusion surrounding the use of harmattan in reference to MeeGo products that has sprung up recently?
various sites seem to be saying that there will be both harmattan and Meego products, i.e. separate and distinct.
what's this about?
Nokia's corporate announcements have said they're "still committed to releasing a MeeGo device this year".
Some people have read this as "releasing a MeeGo [project built RPM running] device". However, as far as we know, this is actually meant as "releasing a MeeGo [API compatible] device this year", aka Harmattan.
Therefore there are those who think:
Harmattan's been scrapped and there'll be a "pure" MeeGo device.
Harmattan's being released and then they'll release the "MeeGo device"
Harmattan's being released, and that's what they meant.
I think anyone with any sense believes #3, and I believe - though haven't checked - there are concrete statements from Quim et al which confirm this.
Jedibeeftrix
2011-03-23, 13:39
thanks. i think that sounds accurate.
Nokia's corporate announcements have said they're "still committed to releasing a MeeGo device this year".
Some people have read this as "releasing a MeeGo [project built RPM running] device". However, as far as we know, this is actually meant as "releasing a MeeGo [API compatible] device this year", aka Harmattan.
Therefore there are those who think:
Harmattan's been scrapped and there'll be a "pure" MeeGo device.
Harmattan's being released and then they'll release the "MeeGo device"
Harmattan's being released, and that's what they meant.
I think anyone with any sense believes #3, and I believe - though haven't checked - there are concrete statements from Quim et al which confirm this.
I agree with Jaffa on this.
The reason is simple, this is what Quim already said in various forums 100 times already.
The reason is simple, this is what Quim already said in various forums 100 times already.
In this Meego Conference Session summary, he actually says it is MeeGo API-compatible with Meego 1.2
http://sf2011.meego.com/program/sessions/harmattan-meego-community
He also openly asks several questions. The important takeaway for us (maemo.org) is that the relationship between the device and Meego project is not yet clarified.
I had a question to a video on the old Maemo 6 security platform.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r08dFQQ2uZI
Is there some components that are also used in MeeGo Harmattan?
I think yes because Harmattan is a mix of Maemo and MeeGo and I don't think Nokia would live aside their work they have previoulsy done on Maemo 6. Any ideas?
ajalkane
2011-08-17, 11:07
Is there some components that are also used in MeeGo Harmattan?
I think yes because Harmattan is a mix of Maemo and MeeGo and I don't think Nokia would live aside their work they have previoulsy done on Maemo 6. Any ideas?
Yes, the security platform is in MeeGo Harmattan. I'm not qualified to assess if that's a good or a bad thing.
This is a simple request to rename this forum but it's worth getting into more details to clarify things.
Harmattan is the name of the software program that comes after Fremantle / Maemo 5. In the Maemo Summit we already announced it as "Maemo 6" in order to bring a clear signal about the major update, change of toolkit, etc.
Now MeeGo (http://meego.com) comes to the picture. "Maemo 6" will not be used by Nokia as a brand since all the marketing effort around the software platform will be around MeeGo.
To be clear: this is not about "ditching" or "abandoning" any platform. The Harmattan program keeps working with the same plans than last week, no matter the name of the product they will deliver. Maemo 6 and Moblin 2.x merge and have a successor called MeeGo. Current Maemo people will look at it and will say "looks like his mother!". Current Mblin people will look at it and will say "looks like his father!" (or choose your preferred gender) ;) Of course you will see changes compared to Maemo 5, but these changes were coming anyway with Maemo 6.
What does this mean exactly for Harmattan7MeeGo? It means different things for different people:
- For end users nothing really changes, apart from a name most of them were not aware of anyway.
- For application developers not much changes. Harmattan's developer offering is based on Qt 4.6 + Qt Creator, Web Runtime + Aptana. Same for MeeGo and btw same for Symbian. Harmattan *might* have extended APIs unique to Nokia devices (e.g. Ovi APIs), but we'll see and this is part of the MeeGo flexibility anyway. Wait for the SDKs to be released and then we can discuss in more detail. There will be also the APIs available for those willing to use them, provided directly by other open source components in the platform (e.g. GStreamer). Developers will be of course free to use them, at the expense of loosing compatibility with Symbian, and with MeeGo... depends on the component and to be seen as soon as there is a detailed MeeGo architecture public. Then there will be the obvious difference in packaging (deb still for Harmattan, rpm for MeeGo) but this won't be the big issue and anyway compatibility with Symbian implies specific packaging as well.
- For those caring about the platform in depth, Harmattan =! MeeGo. If we would make Harmattan identical to MeeGo then we would need to postpone dates and, really not for a good reason. Not a reason for app developers (the API is there anyway) and not a good reason for end users, who could not care less about packaging and some obscure middleware components. This is the only reason making Ari Jaaksi refer to Harmattan as a "MeeGo instance" instead of just "MeeGo product".
This is why we are dropping the "Maemo 6" *brand* while keeping all the Harmattan development full speed and in the same direction that it was.
Since the MeeGo release which is shipped with the N9 device is actually Maemo 6 and the brand "MeeGo" is officially dead I only wonder why the N9 OS is not renamed back to "Maemo 6" again?
It would also clarify that the N9 is the true N900 sucessor.
chenliangchen
2011-11-09, 13:34
Wish Nokia could rename it back to maemo 6, otherwise lots people thinks N9 is dead.
Wish Nokia could rename it back to maemo 6, otherwise lots people thinks N9 is dead.
That is the strategy of S. Elop... All he wants is doing everything so that the N9 is going to grave and make the Windows crap the winner...
I really hope Jolla rename its os. Meego is not a strong brand and is marked with nokia failure. Maemo 7 would be cool, but it's nokia. So the now what
Meego was maemo 6 now it's more meego but again that brand is broken.
Jolt. That would be perfect.
Well, Jolla calls it SailfishOs.
SailfishOS is indeed MeeGo, e.g. it features rpm instead of deb-package management.
JohnHughes
2013-03-15, 11:54
Future release?
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